Author Topic: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men  (Read 6430 times)

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Offline Arachne

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When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« on: January 16, 2016, 05:00:35 PM »
In the 1600s, a man named James Mattock was expelled from the First Church of Boston. His crime? It wasn’t using lewd language or smiling on the sabbath or anything else that we might think the Puritans had disapproved of. Rather, James Mattock had refused to have sex with his wife for two years. Though Mattock’s community clearly saw his self-deprivation as improper, it is quite possible that they had his wife’s suffering in mind when they decided to shun him. The Puritans believed that sexual desire was a normal and natural part of human life for both men and women (as long as it was heterosexual and confined to marriage), but that women wanted and needed sex more than men. A man could choose to give up sex with relatively little trouble, but for a woman to be so deprived would be much more difficult for her.

Yet today, the idea that men are more interested in sex than women is so pervasive that it seems almost unremarkable. Whether it’s because of hormone levels or “human nature,” men just need to have sex, masturbate, and look at porn in a way that simply isn’t necessary for women, according to popular assumptions (and if a woman does find it necessary, there’s probably something wrong with her). Women must be convinced, persuaded, even forced into “giving it up,” because the prospect of sex just isn’t that appealing on its own, say popular stereotypes. Sex for women is usually a somewhat distasteful but necessary act that must be performed to win approval, financial support, or to maintain a stable relationship. And since women are not slaves to their desires like men, they are responsible for ensuring that they aren’t “taken advantage of.”


http://www.alternet.org/sex-amp-relationships/when-women-wanted-sex-much-more-men
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Offline Severian

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2016, 05:08:42 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 05:08:53 PM by Severian »
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline Volnutt

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2016, 05:17:23 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
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Offline homedad76

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2016, 05:17:30 PM »
And don't forget the pervasive tendency to make women responsible both for their own sexual desires and those of men.  But the fact is women have always been just as interested in sex as men, it is really only a difference in degree.  Biologically speaking women are simply more selective then men, but the actual desire to breed is equal in both.
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Offline Severian

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2016, 05:40:07 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
It was a jo...

You know what? Forget it. Not exactly the life of the party, are you?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 05:42:17 PM by Severian »
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline Volnutt

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2016, 05:54:26 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
It was a jo...

You know what? Forget it. Not exactly the life of the party, are you?

Sorry, I didn't realize it was a joke. This is one of the online topics that I've seen so much stupidity on that I've begun just assuming that everybody who says something like that is doing so in earnest.
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Offline Severian

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2016, 07:13:37 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
It was a jo...

You know what? Forget it. Not exactly the life of the party, are you?

Sorry, I didn't realize it was a joke. This is one of the online topics that I've seen so much stupidity on that I've begun just assuming that everybody who says something like that is doing so in earnest.
No problem then. And I apologize if my rhetoric was a bit uncharitable.
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline wgw

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2016, 07:17:10 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2016, 07:22:44 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Svartzorn

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2016, 08:08:35 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.

Recently a state here in Brazil passed a law that banned public breastfeeding. I always knew this was a thing in America, but I never understood what's the big deal about it. some lady is breastfeeding, what's the fuss?
Men are also shunned for the misuse of their sexuality. They are called irresponsible, less of a man, childish... the list goes on.
And men trying to be way too sensual just get called feminine or f*****s, because it's precisely where this metrossexual thingie tends to go.
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2016, 08:23:44 PM »
A time when women wanted sex more than men? in their 40's? ;D

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2016, 08:49:30 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.

Seriously.  After reading those and some others, a "plain old sex thread" is as scandalous as roast lamb on Pascha. 

Offline William T

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2016, 08:53:35 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.

We're those as amazing as the head dress post you linked?

Offline Arachne

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2016, 08:55:55 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.

We're those as amazing as the head dress post you linked?

New Year's fireworks compared to a damp squib. Seriously. That explosive.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2016, 08:56:48 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline wgw

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2016, 09:10:29 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.

Seriously.  After reading those and some others, a "plain old sex thread" is as scandalous as roast lamb on Pascha.

Now that is just disturbing.   Which poses for us an interesting question: which was more disturbing, breastfeeding or the Bronies?
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2016, 09:13:30 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.

Seriously.  After reading those and some others, a "plain old sex thread" is as scandalous as roast lamb on Pascha.

Now that is just disturbing.   Which poses for us an interesting question: which was more disturbing, breastfeeding or the Bronies?


no contest....the breastfeeding threads
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Offline Svartzorn

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2016, 09:17:49 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.

You seem to deny that women dress sensually to arouse possible sexual partners.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2016, 09:20:50 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.

You seem to deny that women dress sensually to arouse possible sexual partners.

she isn't saying that at all.

But you are edging dangerously close to 'it was that lady's fault I raped her...I couldn't resist her outfit'

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline Arachne

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2016, 09:24:51 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.

You seem to deny that women dress sensually to arouse possible sexual partners.

You seem to deny that men have the ability to keep their hormones under control.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Svartzorn

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2016, 09:35:32 PM »
Any gaze at criminal vitimology would tell you that the victim plays a role in the commitement of a crime. It's not just rape I'm talking about here.
No liberal indoctrination can deny that.
I'm not "dangerously trying to blame the victims", I'm saying this wouldn't be too much of a problem if fashion wasn't so sexualized.
Going cliché on that matter: it's not my fault my house was robbed, but it probably had something to do with me leaving the door opened.
So stop living in this world of "hypothetical rights" and face reality. Maniacs are out there and we have to watch out for them. And be safe.
And, no, maniacs don't think about "controlling themselves" that often. You can keep pushing that button, "teaching men not to rape" as if it was our fault. Maniacs cannot be taught such things. Women will still get raped.
You can actually do something about that by being safe or you can live in a fairy tale in which you are never stripped of your rights.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2016, 09:42:00 PM »
Women in burqas get raped too.

Locked houses get burgled too.

Expensive cars are much more likely to be stolen, but nobody gets told not to buy a Merc.

Don't get so defensive, dear. Responsibility goes both ways.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Svartzorn

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2016, 09:48:28 PM »
Women in burqas get raped too.

Locked houses get burgled too.

Expensive cars are much more likely to be stolen, but nobody gets told not to buy a Merc.

Don't get so defensive, dear. Responsibility goes both ways.

Well, thinking as an hypothetical criminal I wonder what he thinks...
What is easier to rob?
What is more pleasure to rape? What is more easy to get away with?
Aaaaand... if house owners/women are more careless, what will happen to crime statistics?

It's not about getting defensive, it's just that the ingenuity of some people that debate that matter actually piss me off (not referring to you).
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Offline wgw

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2016, 10:16:07 PM »
Insofar as this thread seems encroaching on "she made me rale her" territory, I daresay it is quite insalubrious.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 10:16:43 PM by wgw »
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Offline RobS

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2016, 10:53:17 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.
Was this that 20 page thread started by JamesR or whoever a couple years ago? Man this board was so much more entertaining back then. Scratch that, I forgot how much I hated Kerdy.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 10:54:55 PM by nothing »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2016, 10:53:22 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.
#bestthreadsevar
God bless!

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2016, 10:54:21 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.
Was this that 20 page thread started by JamesR or whoever a couple years ago? Man this board was so much more entertaining back then.
I think kerdy started it, and if he didn't he definitely was the driving force for its unending continuation. It was oc.net at its finest.
God bless!

Offline RobS

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2016, 10:55:30 PM »
There is something decidedly creepy about sex-related threads on OCnet.

You say that because you were not around for the breastfeeding threads.
Was this that 20 page thread started by JamesR or whoever a couple years ago? Man this board was so much more entertaining back then.
I think kerdy started it, and if he didn't he definitely was the driving force for its unending continuation. It was oc.net at its finest.
Yeah I remembered now who contributed the most, I'm glad he's gone.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2016, 10:57:12 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
Sadly, this is true. And even more sadly, many women have decided that the best way to fix this is by acting like men instead encouraging men to be more pure.
God bless!

Offline RobS

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2016, 11:02:22 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
Sadly, this is true. And even more sadly, many women have decided that the best way to fix this is by acting like men instead encouraging men to be more pure.
You both are really tempting me to start up with some old arguments. ;)

I just don't see how a partner's previous sex history matters. People are going to have sex, whether its casual flings or in relationships or whatever, big deal. I haven't decided yet if those "slut shaming" is rooted in some deep insecurities or inadequacies.

What I do read though from these type of men is they categorize a whole host of women as being unworthy of a monogamous relationship that could led to marriage.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2016, 11:04:42 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
Sadly, this is true. And even more sadly, many women have decided that the best way to fix this is by acting like men instead encouraging men to be more pure.
You both are really tempting me to start up with some old arguments. ;)

I just don't see how a partner's previous sex history matters. People are going to have sex, whether its casual flings or in relationships or whatever, big deal. I haven't decided yet if those "slut shaming" is rooted in some deep insecurities or inadequacies.

What I do read though from these type of men is they categorize a whole host of women as being unworthy of a monogamous relationship that could led to marriage.
It has nothing to do with slut shaming or previous sex history. It has everything to do with respecting yourself and not believing the current cultural line that you have to give it up if you ever expect to find love.
God bless!

Offline RobS

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2016, 11:12:05 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
Sadly, this is true. And even more sadly, many women have decided that the best way to fix this is by acting like men instead encouraging men to be more pure.
You both are really tempting me to start up with some old arguments. ;)

I just don't see how a partner's previous sex history matters. People are going to have sex, whether its casual flings or in relationships or whatever, big deal. I haven't decided yet if those "slut shaming" is rooted in some deep insecurities or inadequacies.

What I do read though from these type of men is they categorize a whole host of women as being unworthy of a monogamous relationship that could led to marriage.
It has nothing to do with slut shaming or previous sex history. It has everything to do with respecting yourself and not believing the current cultural line that you have to give it up if you ever expect to find love.
Respecting yourself? Oh please.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2016, 11:14:10 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
Sadly, this is true. And even more sadly, many women have decided that the best way to fix this is by acting like men instead encouraging men to be more pure.
You both are really tempting me to start up with some old arguments. ;)

I just don't see how a partner's previous sex history matters. People are going to have sex, whether its casual flings or in relationships or whatever, big deal. I haven't decided yet if those "slut shaming" is rooted in some deep insecurities or inadequacies.

What I do read though from these type of men is they categorize a whole host of women as being unworthy of a monogamous relationship that could led to marriage.
It has nothing to do with slut shaming or previous sex history. It has everything to do with respecting yourself and not believing the current cultural line that you have to give it up if you ever expect to find love.
Respecting yourself? Oh please.
If you can't recall girls getting pressured into having sex in high school and college, then you must have lived a much more sheltered childhood/young adulthood than I thought.
God bless!

Offline homedad76

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2016, 11:21:25 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.

Ding ding ding!!!  While it is somewhat true that we need to think about how we act (including dress) effects others what we are not responsible for is their actions.  No woman (or man for that matter), no matter how they dress or how many times they've had sex (or how many times you think they have) is asking to be treated like an object whether by words or actions.
"However hard I try, I find it impossible to construct anything greater than these three words, 'Love one another' —only to the end, and without exceptions: then all is justified and life is illumined, whereas otherwise it is an abomination and a burden."

—Mother Maria of Paris

Offline homedad76

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2016, 11:26:17 PM »
Women in burqas get raped too.

Locked houses get burgled too.

Expensive cars are much more likely to be stolen, but nobody gets told not to buy a Merc.

Don't get so defensive, dear. Responsibility goes both ways.
Well, thinking as an hypothetical criminal I wonder what he thinks...
What is easier to rob?
What is more pleasure to rape? What is more easy to get away with?
Aaaaand... if house owners/women are more careless, what will happen to crime statistics?

It's not about getting defensive, it's just that the ingenuity of some people that debate that matter actually piss me off (not referring to you).

 You have some point on the burglary thing.  However even in that case the homeowner is not held responsible under the law.  Stealing is illegal no matter how easy it is.  But you are dead wrong on the rape thing.  Rape is not about sex, it is about power.  And the perpetrator is absolutely always to blame.  A woman should be able to dress any way she wants without fear of getting raped.  Period.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 11:27:02 PM by homedad76 »
"However hard I try, I find it impossible to construct anything greater than these three words, 'Love one another' —only to the end, and without exceptions: then all is justified and life is illumined, whereas otherwise it is an abomination and a burden."

—Mother Maria of Paris

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2016, 11:27:48 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.

Ding ding ding!!!  While it is somewhat true that we need to think about how we act (including dress) effects others what we are not responsible for is their actions.  No woman (or man for that matter), no matter how they dress or how many times they've had sex (or how many times you think they have) is asking to be treated like an object whether by words or actions.
While this is true, there is a big difference between what "should" be and what "is". As a citizen of this country, I should be able to walk down any street in America without fear of violence. As a pasty white guy, it is just a fact that there are certain streets in Baltimore that I would not walk down because the "should" isn't what "is".

No woman should have to worry about being assaulted over their attire, but that fact is that there are really bad scumbags out there that will take sexy attire as an invitation to commit sexual violence. That doesn't excuse said scumbag's behavior at all, but it should cause women to be cautious based on what they are wearing and that there surroundings are. It is just a matter of being street smart.
God bless!

Offline RobS

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2016, 11:28:21 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
Sadly, this is true. And even more sadly, many women have decided that the best way to fix this is by acting like men instead encouraging men to be more pure.
You both are really tempting me to start up with some old arguments. ;)

I just don't see how a partner's previous sex history matters. People are going to have sex, whether its casual flings or in relationships or whatever, big deal. I haven't decided yet if those "slut shaming" is rooted in some deep insecurities or inadequacies.

What I do read though from these type of men is they categorize a whole host of women as being unworthy of a monogamous relationship that could led to marriage.
It has nothing to do with slut shaming or previous sex history. It has everything to do with respecting yourself and not believing the current cultural line that you have to give it up if you ever expect to find love.
Respecting yourself? Oh please.
If you can't recall girls getting pressured into having sex in high school and college, then you must have lived a much more sheltered childhood/young adulthood than I thought.
I recall differently, but I'm not sure what kind of school you went to. And besides, the number of women who feel pressured to have sex in high school doesn't work in your favor.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2016, 11:32:50 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
Sadly, this is true. And even more sadly, many women have decided that the best way to fix this is by acting like men instead encouraging men to be more pure.
You both are really tempting me to start up with some old arguments. ;)

I just don't see how a partner's previous sex history matters. People are going to have sex, whether its casual flings or in relationships or whatever, big deal. I haven't decided yet if those "slut shaming" is rooted in some deep insecurities or inadequacies.

What I do read though from these type of men is they categorize a whole host of women as being unworthy of a monogamous relationship that could led to marriage.
It has nothing to do with slut shaming or previous sex history. It has everything to do with respecting yourself and not believing the current cultural line that you have to give it up if you ever expect to find love.
Respecting yourself? Oh please.
If you can't recall girls getting pressured into having sex in high school and college, then you must have lived a much more sheltered childhood/young adulthood than I thought.
I recall differently, but I'm not sure what kind of school you went to. And besides, the number of women who feel pressured to have sex in high school doesn't work in your favor.

According to this, 61% of teen girls are pressured into having sex.  I would say that is problematic.

http://www.thehopeline.com/being-pressured-sex/

Quote
Being pressured to have sex in a dating relationship is more common than most people think. In a recent survey, 61% of all teenage girls say they are pressured to have sex. Though not as many, some guys are also pressured to have sex with their girlfriends.  Many of those who are pressured give in to it mostly because of the overwhelming fear of losing the person they really care about, simply because they won’t have sex. Most people who end up having a sexual relationship are simply doing whatever needs to be done to keep their bf/gf. In the end, some bargain away their bodies in their attempt to keep the relationship going. But in the process, lose their self-respect”not to mention the very real possibility of unwanted pregnancy, diseases, rape, bad reputation, and of course, a broken heart.
God bless!

Offline homedad76

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2016, 11:33:01 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.

Ding ding ding!!!  While it is somewhat true that we need to think about how we act (including dress) effects others what we are not responsible for is their actions.  No woman (or man for that matter), no matter how they dress or how many times they've had sex (or how many times you think they have) is asking to be treated like an object whether by words or actions.
While this is true, there is a big difference between what "should" be and what "is". As a citizen of this country, I should be able to walk down any street in America without fear of violence. As a pasty white guy, it is just a fact that there are certain streets in Baltimore that I would not walk down because the "should" isn't what "is".

No woman should have to worry about being assaulted over their attire, but that fact is that there are really bad scumbags out there that will take sexy attire as an invitation to commit sexual violence. That doesn't excuse said scumbag's behavior at all, but it should cause women to be cautious based on what they are wearing and that there surroundings are. It is just a matter of being street smart.

I agree but these are the kind of things that should be discussed with a woman by close friends before something happens and in private (much like discussions about weight or singing ability).  Not by random denizens of the internet putting in their two sense after the fact.
"However hard I try, I find it impossible to construct anything greater than these three words, 'Love one another' —only to the end, and without exceptions: then all is justified and life is illumined, whereas otherwise it is an abomination and a burden."

—Mother Maria of Paris

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2016, 11:34:18 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.

Ding ding ding!!!  While it is somewhat true that we need to think about how we act (including dress) effects others what we are not responsible for is their actions.  No woman (or man for that matter), no matter how they dress or how many times they've had sex (or how many times you think they have) is asking to be treated like an object whether by words or actions.
While this is true, there is a big difference between what "should" be and what "is". As a citizen of this country, I should be able to walk down any street in America without fear of violence. As a pasty white guy, it is just a fact that there are certain streets in Baltimore that I would not walk down because the "should" isn't what "is".

No woman should have to worry about being assaulted over their attire, but that fact is that there are really bad scumbags out there that will take sexy attire as an invitation to commit sexual violence. That doesn't excuse said scumbag's behavior at all, but it should cause women to be cautious based on what they are wearing and that there surroundings are. It is just a matter of being street smart.

I agree but these are the kind of things that should be discussed with a woman by close friends before something happens and in private (much like discussions about weight or singing ability).  Not by random denizens of the internet putting in their two sense after the fact.
I think increasing awareness on how best to prevent rape should be done by everyone, not just by close friends. To be clear, I'm not in any way advocating telling a rape victim that they should have been dressed more modestly. That would be completely unacceptable. I do think that parents should be talking to their daughters about the importance of dressing appropriately for the occasion. If you are going out clubbing, being the most scantily clad woman in the club is probably going to not end well. If they are going to the beach, wearing a bikini isn't a big deal. Wearing one to a bar, well, maybe there are better clothing options.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 11:37:05 PM by TheTrisagion »
God bless!

Offline homedad76

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2016, 11:36:33 PM »
The more I interact with young women, the more I think Origen had the right idea. Whatever his faults might have been, it took balls to do what he did.

Except he most likely didn't and you're missing the point of the article. The article's not saying that we should return to a pre-Puritan view of women as insatiable sexual monsters, just that we need to be honest that both sides are sexual and not try to minimize one of the other. In today's society men tend to be given a pass, if not adulation, for being very sexual while women get called sluts.
Sadly, this is true. And even more sadly, many women have decided that the best way to fix this is by acting like men instead encouraging men to be more pure.
You both are really tempting me to start up with some old arguments. ;)

I just don't see how a partner's previous sex history matters. People are going to have sex, whether its casual flings or in relationships or whatever, big deal. I haven't decided yet if those "slut shaming" is rooted in some deep insecurities or inadequacies.

What I do read though from these type of men is they categorize a whole host of women as being unworthy of a monogamous relationship that could led to marriage.
It has nothing to do with slut shaming or previous sex history. It has everything to do with respecting yourself and not believing the current cultural line that you have to give it up if you ever expect to find love.
Respecting yourself? Oh please.
If you can't recall girls getting pressured into having sex in high school and college, then you must have lived a much more sheltered childhood/young adulthood than I thought.
I recall differently, but I'm not sure what kind of school you went to. And besides, the number of women who feel pressured to have sex in high school doesn't work in your favor.

According to this, 61% of teen girls are pressured into having sex.  I would say that is problematic.

http://www.thehopeline.com/being-pressured-sex/

Quote
Being pressured to have sex in a dating relationship is more common than most people think. In a recent survey, 61% of all teenage girls say they are pressured to have sex. Though not as many, some guys are also pressured to have sex with their girlfriends.  Many of those who are pressured give in to it mostly because of the overwhelming fear of losing the person they really care about, simply because they won’t have sex. Most people who end up having a sexual relationship are simply doing whatever needs to be done to keep their bf/gf. In the end, some bargain away their bodies in their attempt to keep the relationship going. But in the process, lose their self-respect”not to mention the very real possibility of unwanted pregnancy, diseases, rape, bad reputation, and of course, a broken heart.

I think guys feel pressured too.  But I think it comes from a different place... girls tend to feel pressured directly by guys while guys feel pressured in a more general sense.  Unfortunately porn is playing a huge role in all of this with young men (or, truthfully, boys) thinking that all girls secretly want casual hookups and to be treated like garbage.
"However hard I try, I find it impossible to construct anything greater than these three words, 'Love one another' —only to the end, and without exceptions: then all is justified and life is illumined, whereas otherwise it is an abomination and a burden."

—Mother Maria of Paris

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2016, 11:39:42 PM »
^
That was the point I was trying to make. And unfortunately, many girls think that if that is how guys think, then they should conform to that same mentality as opposed to rejecting it. It comes from a place of low self esteem.
God bless!

Offline homedad76

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2016, 11:39:53 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.

Ding ding ding!!!  While it is somewhat true that we need to think about how we act (including dress) effects others what we are not responsible for is their actions.  No woman (or man for that matter), no matter how they dress or how many times they've had sex (or how many times you think they have) is asking to be treated like an object whether by words or actions.
While this is true, there is a big difference between what "should" be and what "is". As a citizen of this country, I should be able to walk down any street in America without fear of violence. As a pasty white guy, it is just a fact that there are certain streets in Baltimore that I would not walk down because the "should" isn't what "is".

No woman should have to worry about being assaulted over their attire, but that fact is that there are really bad scumbags out there that will take sexy attire as an invitation to commit sexual violence. That doesn't excuse said scumbag's behavior at all, but it should cause women to be cautious based on what they are wearing and that there surroundings are. It is just a matter of being street smart.

I agree but these are the kind of things that should be discussed with a woman by close friends before something happens and in private (much like discussions about weight or singing ability).  Not by random denizens of the internet putting in their two sense after the fact.
I think increasing awareness on how best to prevent rape should be done by everyone, not just by close friends.
And, again, I don't disagree.  But I was speaking of the tendency of people to make such comments about or to real victims after the fact.  The best way to prevent rape is to teach men to respect women.  And yes there are also common sense things women can do as well (though they are pretty much the same things all of us should do to prevent assault in general) but once a rape occurs any conversations with the victim about how they "contributed" are inappropriate.
"However hard I try, I find it impossible to construct anything greater than these three words, 'Love one another' —only to the end, and without exceptions: then all is justified and life is illumined, whereas otherwise it is an abomination and a burden."

—Mother Maria of Paris

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2016, 11:41:48 PM »
The fact that women are "responsible for men's arousals" is just a fact. You might not like it, but it's the way it is, specially in our oversexualized society.

There's a world of difference between acknowledging your own attraction to someone and blaming it on them.

Ding ding ding!!!  While it is somewhat true that we need to think about how we act (including dress) effects others what we are not responsible for is their actions.  No woman (or man for that matter), no matter how they dress or how many times they've had sex (or how many times you think they have) is asking to be treated like an object whether by words or actions.
While this is true, there is a big difference between what "should" be and what "is". As a citizen of this country, I should be able to walk down any street in America without fear of violence. As a pasty white guy, it is just a fact that there are certain streets in Baltimore that I would not walk down because the "should" isn't what "is".

No woman should have to worry about being assaulted over their attire, but that fact is that there are really bad scumbags out there that will take sexy attire as an invitation to commit sexual violence. That doesn't excuse said scumbag's behavior at all, but it should cause women to be cautious based on what they are wearing and that there surroundings are. It is just a matter of being street smart.

I agree but these are the kind of things that should be discussed with a woman by close friends before something happens and in private (much like discussions about weight or singing ability).  Not by random denizens of the internet putting in their two sense after the fact.
I think increasing awareness on how best to prevent rape should be done by everyone, not just by close friends.
And, again, I don't disagree.  But I was speaking of the tendency of people to make such comments about or to real victims after the fact.  The best way to prevent rape is to teach men to respect women.  And yes there are also common sense things women can do as well (though they are pretty much the same things all of us should do to prevent assault in general) but once a rape occurs any conversations with the victim about how they "contributed" are inappropriate.
I edited my post to clarify my position. I am in agreement with you.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 11:41:58 PM by TheTrisagion »
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Offline homedad76

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Re: When Women Wanted Sex Much More Than Men
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2016, 11:43:03 PM »
The fact is if people treated other people like, well, people discussions like this wouldn't need to even happen.  And when a person acts like they wanted to be treated like an object the most charitable thing to do is not to oblige them.  And of course it is important in light of the OP's original post that we should never apply generalities to specific people.  Even if 85% of women have admitted to wanting to have sex with a stranger (totally made up statistic by the way) that doesn't mean that the woman you have your eye on in the club is part of that group or that you are that stranger.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 11:45:20 PM by homedad76 »
"However hard I try, I find it impossible to construct anything greater than these three words, 'Love one another' —only to the end, and without exceptions: then all is justified and life is illumined, whereas otherwise it is an abomination and a burden."

—Mother Maria of Paris