Author Topic: "And with Your Spirit"  (Read 2372 times)

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Offline Bryan Paul

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"And with Your Spirit"
« on: January 14, 2016, 08:33:44 AM »
After the priest intones, "Peace be unto all," why do we respond, "And with your spirit?"
It's such an odd turn of phrase, and I've never heard an explanation.
I have always found the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom to be so much more moving in the original Ukrainian.

Offline HaydenTE

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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2016, 10:27:35 AM »
I was once told it was because the priest's spirit is going to be mystically united with Christ's so he may preform the Holy Mysteries. His body doesn't unite with Christ, so emphasis is placed on the spirit.

However, I must add I was told this by a Catholic priest during a class on the Catholic Mass, but the exact same phrase is used in about the same context, so I'm assuming it's applicable to Orthodoxy.
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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 10:39:27 AM »
I once had to laugh when someone quite seriously represented that "and with your spirit" can be understood as namaste.
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Offline Bryan Paul

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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 12:19:50 PM »
I was once told it was because the priest's spirit is going to be mystically united with Christ's so he may preform the Holy Mysteries. His body doesn't unite with Christ, so emphasis is placed on the spirit.

However, I must add I was told this by a Catholic priest during a class on the Catholic Mass, but the exact same phrase is used in about the same context, so I'm assuming it's applicable to Orthodoxy.
Yeah, one of the recent changes in the English translation of the RC mass, was to replace, "and also with you," with, "and with your spirit," so it's pretty easy to find Roman Catholic discussion of this online, but, like you, I don't know how their explanation jibes with the Orthodox explanation.

Incidentally, I attended a Roman Catholic mass (for the first time in several years) while on my way to becoming Orthodox and I was really surprised to hear that phrase, since the first time I'd encountered it was in the Orthodox Liturgy. Maybe it's a first step toward reconciliation.  8)
I have always found the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom to be so much more moving in the original Ukrainian.

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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 12:27:32 PM »
"And with your spirit" is still inadequete; context is lost without the second personal pronoun.
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Offline Bryan Paul

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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 12:30:43 PM »
"And with your spirit" is still inadequete; context is lost without the second personal pronoun.
Huh?
I have always found the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom to be so much more moving in the original Ukrainian.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 12:36:06 PM »
I was once told it was because the priest's spirit is going to be mystically united with Christ's so he may preform the Holy Mysteries. His body doesn't unite with Christ, so emphasis is placed on the spirit.

However, I must add I was told this by a Catholic priest during a class on the Catholic Mass, but the exact same phrase is used in about the same context, so I'm assuming it's applicable to Orthodoxy.

eh...no I don't think that's the reason.  That's putting an unnecessary dichotomy between man's spirit and body.  "And also with your spirit" I think would mean almost the same thing "and also with you".  The emphasis on the spirit is on the person, and how the person directs His whole self (body and soul) spiritually with Christ.  So I don't think it's correct to say "only the spirit" of the priest is united to Christ.
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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 12:36:46 PM »
After the priest intones, "Peace be unto all," why do we respond, "And with your spirit?"
It's such an odd turn of phrase, and I've never heard an explanation.

After the priest say peace to you the people in our church don't say nothing only make the sign of the cross.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 12:53:49 PM by Indocern »

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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 06:49:39 PM »
I was once told it was because the priest's spirit is going to be mystically united with Christ's so he may preform the Holy Mysteries. His body doesn't unite with Christ, so emphasis is placed on the spirit.

However, I must add I was told this by a Catholic priest during a class on the Catholic Mass, but the exact same phrase is used in about the same context, so I'm assuming it's applicable to Orthodoxy.

eh...no I don't think that's the reason.  That's putting an unnecessary dichotomy between man's spirit and body.  "And also with your spirit" I think would mean almost the same thing "and also with you".  The emphasis on the spirit is on the person, and how the person directs His whole self (body and soul) spiritually with Christ.  So I don't think it's correct to say "only the spirit" of the priest is united to Christ.
As I had stated, this was the Catholic explanation, or at least the one I received from a Catholic priest. Wasn't sure if it was correct but I thought I'd add what I'd heard.
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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 07:56:46 PM »
What do the people mean when they respond “and with your spirit”?
The expression et cum spiritu tuo is only addressed to an ordained minister. Some scholars have suggested that spiritu refers to the gift of the spirit he received at ordination. In their response, the people assure the priest of the same divine assistance of God’s spirit and, more specifically, help for the priest to use the charismatic gifts given to him in ordination and in so doing to fulfill his prophetic function in the Church.

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/roman-missal/and-with-your-spirit.cfm
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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2016, 08:55:11 PM »
"And with your spirit" is still inadequete; context is lost without the second personal pronoun.
Huh?

It should be "and with thy spirit."
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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2016, 08:57:00 PM »
There is by the way a semantic difference between your and thy; English meeds a second personal pronoun, and thus we see ridiculous workarounds like "you all."
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Offline mike

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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2016, 09:05:22 PM »
There is by the way a semantic difference between your and thy; English meeds a second personal pronoun, and thus we see ridiculous workarounds like "you all."

English has a a second personal pronoun, even two, singular and plural, that happen to be the same.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 09:15:25 PM by mike »
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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2016, 12:23:10 AM »
There is by the way a semantic difference between your and thy; English meeds a second personal pronoun, and thus we see ridiculous workarounds like "you all."

English has a a second personal pronoun, even two, singular and plural, that happen to be the same.

If you're in the south, y'all is preferred to distinguish from the singular "you".
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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 12:27:51 AM »
I once had to laugh when someone quite seriously represented that "and with your spirit" can be understood as namaste.

Was it dattaswami?

Namaste means, "I bow to the divine in you".
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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2016, 01:38:47 AM »
There is by the way a semantic difference between your and thy; English meeds a second personal pronoun, and thus we see ridiculous workarounds like "you all."

English has a a second personal pronoun, even two, singular and plural, that happen to be the same.

If you're in the south, y'all is preferred to distinguish from the singular "you".

Sounds better than "youse" too.
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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2016, 01:19:16 PM »
I once had to laugh when someone quite seriously represented that "and with your spirit" can be understood as namaste.

Was it dattaswami?

Namaste means, "I bow to the divine in you".

Namaste, St. John the Forerunner's first words ;)
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Offline JoeS2

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Re: "And with Your Spirit"
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2016, 06:35:26 PM »
After the priest intones, "Peace be unto all," why do we respond, "And with your spirit?"
It's such an odd turn of phrase, and I've never heard an explanation.

I've heard it both ways" And with " and "And to" your Spirit and Im not sure of which one is correct.