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Author Topic: Greek Catholic Priest Responds To Orthodox (UOC-MP) Vice-Rector  (Read 1489 times) Average Rating: 0
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Orthodoc
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Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« on: February 14, 2003, 11:49:27 AM »

Greek Catholic Priest Responds To Orthodox (UOC-MP) Vice-Rector

LVIV, UKRAINE, Feb 12, 03 (RISU.org.ua) - Fr. Mykola Makar of the Ukrainian
Orthodox Church-Moscow Patriarchate (UOC-MP), vice-rector of the Kyivan
Theological Academy, said that Greek Catholics are a stumbling block to
dialogue between the Orthodox and Catholic churches. This news was reported
by the press service of the UOC-MP on 7 February 2003. In response, Fr.
Mykhaylo Dymyd, director of the Institute of Canon Law at the Ukrainian
Catholic University (UCU) in Lviv, commented.

Fr. Makar noted that dialogue between Orthodox and Catholic believers
develops in very difficult conditions and is hindered by their different
attitude to Greek Catholics. He went on to say that while Roman Catholics
treat Greek Catholics as “one of their own,” Orthodox believers perceive
them as “betrayers of the faith.” “This is the reason why it is difficult
to reach a consensus even on some organizational problems, not to mention
dogmatic issues,” said Fr. Makar. In addition, he also expressed his doubts
concerning the improvement of relations between Orthodox and Catholic
jurisdictions.

Fr. Mykhaylo Dymyd responded. “Once the Roman Catholic Church didn't have
good relations with Greek Catholic churches, either,” he said. “During the
Second Vatican Council, however, it did an examination of conscience and
acknowledged that these churches should return to their traditions, their
own theological and canonical systems.”

“The Orthodox Church didn't do this [make an examination of conscience],”
according to Fr. Dymyd. “It should have reflected on the past and realized
that the Kyivan metropolitanate, a part of this church, decided to unite
with the Roman Catholic Church not in defiance of anyone, but for the sake
of its own good and the good of the universal church.”

“The church that currently adheres more to the Moscow tradition than the
Kyivan one could not understand and accept what took place in the Kyivan
tradition,” said Fr. Dymyd.

“The attitudes towards the Greek Catholic Church, which is the Kyivan
Church united with Rome, of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kyivan
Patriarchate and the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church on the one
hand, and the Orthodox who are the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and don’t want
to be called the Moscow Patriarchate, even though they actually are the
Moscow Patriarchate, on the other hand, are different too. The latter want
to introduce the Moscow tradition of treating the Uniates,” stressed Fr. Dymyd.

“If the Kyivan Orthodox Church is really not afraid to look back at its
history, then it will see that the so-called Uniate Church is part of this
history. The Kyivan Orthodox Church should not turn it away or anathematize
it, but make an examination of conscience and begin the discussion, if not
on an equal basis, then at least as mother and daughter or daughter and
mother, depending on the interpretation. Furthermore, we are talking about
Christian churches, based on Jesus’ teaching, which is love,” emphasized
Fr. Dymyd.

Note:
Father Makar studied at the Moscow Theological Seminary but later joined
the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. He earned a doctorate in canon law at
the Papal Oriental Institute (POI) in Rome. Later, Cardinal Myroslav Ivan
Lubachivsky, late head of the UGCC, named him the head of the
archieparchial tribunal of the UGCC in Lviv, but Father Makar decided to
return to the Orthodox Church.
Father Dymyd also earned a doctorate at the POI. He was the first rector of
the revived Lviv Theological Academy and is the founder and director of the
Institute of Canon Law at UCU and is chancellor of the Lviv archeparchy of
the UGCC.
Source: www.orthodox.org.ua

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Orthodoc
   

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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2003, 11:51:10 AM »

Boy, what a bunch of Baloney!

[He went on to say that while Roman Catholics treat Greek Catholics as “one of their own,”]

Is that perhaps, why they are setting up Latin Rite Roman Catholc parishes in the Ukraine?  To compete with THEIR OWN as well as the Orthodox Catholic Churches?

[“It should have reflected on the past and realized
that the Kyivan metropolitanate, a part of this church, decided to unite
with the Roman Catholic Church not in defiance of anyone, but for the sake
of its own good and the good of the universal church.”]

Perhaps the good Father should explain further what he means by FOR THE SAKE OF ITS OWN GOOD.  All one has to do is read the 33 articles of the Union of Brest and ask why they were asking for things we would classify as 'basic human rights' and 'freedom of religion' before they would sign on the dotted line.

[and the Orthodox who are the Ukrainian Orthodox Church and don’t want
to be called the Moscow Patriarchate, even though they actually are the
Moscow Patriarchate,]

Kind of like the Ukrainian Greek Catholics that are part of the Roman Catholic Church but don't want to be called Uniate, 'Eastern Rite Roman Catholics',  'Papal Catholics', or anything else that reminds them that by being 'In Communion with Rome' also means to be 'Under Romes Authority'.

The  canonical  automonous Ukrainian Orthodox Church has more freedom and independence than the UGCC.  As I like to remind them, the big difference is that when the Moscow Patriarch visits the Ukraine, not one Ukrainian Orthodox Bishop has to kneel down before him and kiss his hand, ring, foot, or any other part of his anatomy!  Big difference!

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Orthodoc
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Anastasios
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2003, 01:26:54 PM »

Dear Orthodoc,

The situation is not as simple as you would like to make it out to be.  I agree with the substance of what you say, namely that Ukrainian Catholics are "under Rome", but I disagree with the way you go about "showing" them that, namely inventing names for them that they themselves do not use.  For instance:

[Is that perhaps, why they are setting up Latin Rite Roman Catholc parishes in the Ukraine?  To compete with THEIR OWN as well as the Orthodox Catholic Churches?]

That's for the Polish who live in Ukraine.  They were there before Soviet times, and their Church is being reborn as well.

[Kind of like the Ukrainian Greek Catholics that are part of the Roman Catholic Church but don't want to be called Uniate, 'Eastern Rite Roman Catholics',  'Papal Catholics', or anything else that reminds them that by being 'In Communion with Rome' also means to be 'Under Romes Authority'. ]

First, a note that it should read "under Rome's authority."

I think most Eastern Catholics are happy to be identified with the Pope, except a few internet personalities.  Nevertheless, the objection to being called Eastern Rite Roman Catholic is valid since that would equate them to being something akin to ritual appendages of the Roman Church, which they are not--they have their own canon law and hierarchy.  Now of course they are "under" Rome ultimately but that doesn't make them Roman Catholics in the liturgical, spiritual, or to some extent theological sense.  If you expect people to take you seriously with your demands to be called an Orthodox Catholic, then you need to be respectful to Eastern Catholics and call them by the name they have chosen for themselves, even if you disagree with them.  Disagreeing and calling them something they don't call themselves are two different things!

[The  canonical  automonous Ukrainian Orthodox Church has more freedom and independence than the UGCC.  As I like to remind them, the big difference is that when the Moscow Patriarch visits the Ukraine, not one Ukrainian Orthodox Bishop has to kneel down before him and kiss his hand, ring, foot, or any other part of his anatomy!  Big difference!]

You make a valid observation there.

anastasios
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2010, 01:19:14 PM »

Is that perhaps, why they are setting up Latin Rite Roman Catholc parishes in the Ukraine?  To compete with THEIR OWN as well as the Orthodox Catholic Churches?
The Latin Rite in Ukraine ministers to Ethnic Poles and Hungarians, as well as foreign students from India and Latin America. They do not compete with the UGCC, but the two cooperate very closely, and the Latin Rite parishes in Kyiv support the construction of the new Greek Catholic Cathedral.

It also seems to me that Catholics in Ukraine are not actively to win over any practising Orthodox, but they do target the whole non-practising population of Ukraine (which are still many).
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2010, 01:31:02 PM »

Is that perhaps, why they are setting up Latin Rite Roman Catholc parishes in the Ukraine?  To compete with THEIR OWN as well as the Orthodox Catholic Churches?
The Latin Rite in Ukraine ministers to Ethnic Poles and Hungarians, as well as foreign students from India and Latin America. They do not compete with the UGCC, but the two cooperate very closely, and the Latin Rite parishes in Kyiv support the construction of the new Greek Catholic Cathedral.

It also seems to me that Catholics in Ukraine are not actively to win over any practising Orthodox, but they do target the whole non-practising population of Ukraine (which are still many).

I agree. One needs to be careful in making broad statements as the reverse charge could be made by Eastern Catholic zealots against the Orthodox in Slovakia for example.
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2010, 01:39:17 PM »

Quote
not one Ukrainian Orthodox Bishop has to kneel down before him and kiss his hand, ring, foot, or any other part of his anatomy!

I kiss my priest's hand any time I greet him.
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2010, 09:06:45 PM »

Is that perhaps, why they are setting up Latin Rite Roman Catholc parishes in the Ukraine?  To compete with THEIR OWN as well as the Orthodox Catholic Churches?
The Latin Rite in Ukraine ministers to Ethnic Poles and Hungarians, as well as foreign students from India and Latin America. They do not compete with the UGCC, but the two cooperate very closely, and the Latin Rite parishes in Kyiv support the construction of the new Greek Catholic Cathedral.

It also seems to me that Catholics in Ukraine are not actively to win over any practising Orthodox, but they do target the whole non-practising population of Ukraine (which are still many).
Not quite..
There is plenty of documentation that the Roman Catholic Church in Ukraine wants to integrate into Ukrainian life and become fully Ukrainian. Even though the majority of RC clergy in Ukraine are of Polish descent or from the Republic of Poland, they do not see as their mission the sustenance of Polish culture in Ukraine,
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