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Author Topic: The Rudder  (Read 1399 times) Average Rating: 0
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Hesychios
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« on: July 22, 2005, 05:16:25 PM »

Greetings all,

Can anyone tell me how or where to obtain a copy of the Rudder?

Barring that, or perhaps due to expense, is it available online somewhere in English?

Thanks to all in advance.

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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2005, 05:33:23 PM »

Quote
Can anyone tell me how or where to obtain a copy of the Rudder?

Yes. But then your priest would kill me. Smiley Seriously, that's a discussion better had with your priest.
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2005, 07:20:54 PM »

Yes. But then your priest would kill me. Smiley Seriously, that's a discussion better had with your priest.

I know where there are online versions, and I can buy it in Greek...but I have been unable to get a copy in English, not even my Professor of Canon Law can easily get copies. If you know where copies can be acquired, I too would be interested to know.

Furthermore, I fear I do not understand your reluctancy to help Hesychios, St. Nikodemos' Interpretations may not have been Perfect, but they were good more often than not; granted the English is far from a good translation, but it is still a valuable reference, especially for those who are not fluent in Patristic Greek. And the Canons, well, they're the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church, Temporal Manifestations of Eternal Truth, I could . However, if you are fluent in Patristic Greek, I'd go for the Syntagma (Rhalles-Potles 1859 Athens, 6 vol., repub. 1966) , it's a substantially better reference than the Pedalion, and you probably wont end up paying too much more for it than you would for an English copy of the Pedalion (if you could find one).

Though some problems may arise out of trying to enforce the Letter of the Law, rather than the Spirit, this is not a flaw with the Holy Canons, and by no means a reason for them to be placed on some 'Index of Forbidden Books.' It is simply a reason that more people need to be educated in the Canonical Tradition of the Orthodox Church (For starters I would Recommend Dr. Patsavos' Spiritual Dimensins of the Holy Canons).

As far as how to get copies of the Holy Canons, the Pedalion and the Syntagma are both available for Purchase online, in Greek. I have no Idea how to get an English Hard Copy of the Pedalion, and no English translation exists for the Syntagma.

However, Volume 14 of the Nicene and Post Nicene Fathers, Series II, has all the Canons from the Seven Oecumenical Synods, Most the Canons of Provincial Synods, as well as the Epitomes of most the Patristic Canons found in the Rudder.

This is also available online (along with the rest of the set) at http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/

Concerning the Pedalion in English, it is available online at

http://www.holytrinitymission.org/

click on textbooks, then scroll down to the section on Canon Law, the entire Pedalion is there in 4 different files. It's scanned and does not have a substantial amount of proof reading, so errors are fairly common, but not to the degree that it is very noticeable or awkward to read.
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2005, 08:01:56 PM »

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Smiley I thought I was helping Hesychios by making sure that he went through his priest. Far too many people (like me!) read canons and then run with them, having no understanding of their proper intrepretation or application. Now I don't know that this describes Hesychios, but I figured his priest would know.

As far as getting ahold of one, unfortunately, the Rudder (along with relics, icons, and many other sacred things) are sold online by all manner of people. I know of some people who make a concerted effort to buy things at various online places just so as to get these sacred things out of the hands of atheists and who knows who else. There is a copy of the Rudder on Ebay right now for $262.77.
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2005, 08:11:25 PM »

I guess it's a matter of perspective. Smiley I thought I was helping Hesychios by making sure that he went through his priest. Far too many people (like me!) read canons and then run with them, having no understanding of their proper intrepretation or application. Now I don't know that this describes Hesychios, but I figured his priest would know.

Well, I would tend to give one the information they desire, and try to instruct them in the proper use if possible, but giving them the information even if I am unable to do so. But I am a fairly strong advocate of the free flow of information, no matter how dangerous or distasteful.

There is a copy of the Rudder on Ebay right now for $262.77.

I was right, all 6 volumes of the Syntagma can be acquired for not substantially more than the single volume Rudder in english.
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2005, 08:26:19 PM »

GiC, when you arrive in Thessaloniki I'll show you the pleasures of copyright law not being observed at all in Greece....  I can get you an English Pedalion for under 10 euro. 
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2005, 09:37:15 PM »

sorry to interrupt, but just what exactly is "The Rudder"?
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2005, 09:47:07 PM »

sorry to interrupt, but just what exactly is "The Rudder"?

The Rudder contains all the Canons from all the Ecumenical and Local Synods of the Orthodox Church. It's name in Greek is the "Pedalion" which means "Rudder" like the rudder used to steer a ship. In the same way that "Canon" comes from the greek word for "measuring rule". The famous ancient Greek sculpture known as the Discobolus (discus-thrower) is called the "Canon" in Greek because of it's excellent proportions, and was used as the "Canon" for subsequent sculpture. So "Canons" were never meant to be slavishly copied, but rather, to serve as guides. Unfortunately, many new converts to Orthodoxy are bringing the understanding of their heterodox denominations into their understanding of what a "Canon" is, and try to impose it on Orthodoxy with hideous results- schism after scishm after sub-schism. An example is the schism in the "Matthewites" over an icon depycting the Holy Trinity with God the Father as an "Old Man", and the Holy Spirit as a "Dove."

Edit: Just watch the reactions to this post to see what I mean. Just remeber, it's "Canon" not "Cannon".....
« Last Edit: July 22, 2005, 09:55:21 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

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Hesychios
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2005, 10:47:29 PM »

Well, thanks to everyone for the responses.

I just wanted to have a reference to the canons, I have much to learn about the faith I will admit. I thought the only way the get the compilation of the canons was to obtain the Rudder, but I had no idea how expensive it would be! I appreciate the advice about speaking to my priest, I will certainly do so.

A special thanks to Greekischristian for pointing out that the canons were available in volume 14, set II. I happen to have that book and never actually looked at that it, it's way down there at the bottom right side of my bookcase collecting dust, the very last one! Roll Eyes

Well, I am satisfied.

Thanks again to all
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2005, 11:27:05 PM »

The Rudder contains all the Canons from all the Ecumenical and Local Synods of the Orthodox Church. It's name in Greek is the "Pedalion" which means "Rudder" like the rudder used to steer a ship. In the same way that "Canon" comes from the greek word for "measuring rule". The famous ancient Greek sculpture known as the Discobolus (discus-thrower) is called the "Canon" in Greek because of it's excellent proportions, and was used as the "Canon" for subsequent sculpture. So "Canons" were never meant to be slavishly copied, but rather, to serve as guides. Unfortunately, many new converts to Orthodoxy are bringing the understanding of their heterodox denominations into their understanding of what a "Canon" is, and try to impose it on Orthodoxy with hideous results- schism after scishm after sub-schism. An example is the schism in the "Matthewites" over an icon depycting the Holy Trinity with God the Father as an "Old Man", and the Holy Spirit as a "Dove."

Edit: Just watch the reactions to this post to see what I mean. Just remeber, it's "Canon" not "Cannon".....

Thank you for the explanation!
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2005, 11:16:52 AM »

The Rudder contains all the Canons from all the Ecumenical and Local Synods of the Orthodox Church. It's name in Greek is the "Pedalion" which means "Rudder" like the rudder used to steer a ship. In the same way that "Canon" comes from the greek word for "measuring rule". The famous ancient Greek sculpture known as the Discobolus (discus-thrower) is called the "Canon" in Greek because of it's excellent proportions, and was used as the "Canon" for subsequent sculpture. So "Canons" were never meant to be slavishly copied, but rather, to serve as guides. Unfortunately, many new converts to Orthodoxy are bringing the understanding of their heterodox denominations into their understanding of what a "Canon" is, and try to impose it on Orthodoxy with hideous results- schism after scishm after sub-schism. An example is the schism in the "Matthewites" over an icon depycting the Holy Trinity with God the Father as an "Old Man", and the Holy Spirit as a "Dove."

Edit: Just watch the reactions to this post to see what I mean. Just remeber, it's "Canon" not "Cannon".....

There are canons of dogmatic nature, and canons of "administrative" or "spiritual" nature. The first, are non-negotiable. While the second and third can be subject to "Economia". How the later canons are to be upheld, is decided by the Saints or the Glorified/Deified of every Church era. They are the Mouths of God, really, they have the spiritual power to see, how (non-dogmatic) Church rules, are to be inforced . Men like Elder Sophrony, or Elder Pasios, or St. Siluan etc

As for the "Holy Trinity" Icon, it is forbidden to depyct the Trinity, by an Ecumenical (seventh, I think), a Pan Orthodox (1666 if I remember Correctly..), and a Local Synod (at Constantinople). Not to mention the OT which , as we all know, forbids to Depyct Gods (invisible) nature. I don't think you'll find a synod or a Church Father Imposing reverance to this un-orthodox Latin Icon...

The Schism started when the Synod of the "Genuine Orthodox", IMPOSED SYNODICALLY, that Icon. If they left it as it was, there would be no problem...Why did they have to impose such an Icon? There was no reason , really. In Greece, we might have that Icon on some Churches, BUT, the Church decisions still stand, and nobody imposes to honor such an icon. When the "Genuine Orthodox" Created a schism because of the Calendar, they probably never thought that someone else would do something simillar to them...

BTW: I don't think the problem are the "Converts". Fanatics alwaysexisted in Church. Pedalion has been a matter discussions for a lot of people that do not understand that "Canons" are not "Cannons" Smiley . But on the one hand we have fanatics and on the other Ecumenists. I'll stay at the middle, thank you. Smiley
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