Author Topic: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?  (Read 2777 times)

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Offline Rhinosaur

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I believe downloading (torrents and such) is immoral, but what about listening to songs and other material that have been posted up by people who are not the creators of the material?  Is it a form of theft or not?

Offline Minnesotan

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I believe downloading (torrents and such) is immoral, but what about listening to songs and other material that have been posted up by people who are not the creators of the material?  Is it a form of theft or not?

At least on YouTube, the creators do (usually) get royalties since the song is automatically recognized by YouTube as copyrighted. Sometimes people will purposely slow down or speed up songs in order to prevent this, usually because they don't want ads to appear on the video. I would regard that as immoral (at least for the person submitting the video, not necessarily the watcher if they're not aware this has happened).
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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I believe downloading (torrents and such) is immoral, but what about listening to songs and other material that have been posted up by people who are not the creators of the material?  Is it a form of theft or not?
How easy is it for you to know whether the material shown in a youtube video has been copied illegally?
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Offline Amatorus

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No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Watching streamed unauthorized copyrighted content is not illegal. Uploading it online is, particularly if you are making money off of it. How that factors in to your beliefs of morality is up to you. Also, clips of movies or songs are generally permitted under Fair Use laws. That is why no one is trying to sue for the millions of memes out there based off of movie stills or gifs. Here is an article that explains it a bit more in depth.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2012/04/is-streaming-or-watching-movies-illegal.html
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 12:35:51 PM by TheTrisagion »
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I believe downloading (torrents and such) is immoral, but what about listening to songs and other material that have been posted up by people who are not the creators of the material?  Is it a form of theft or not?

Downloading isn't theft. Intellectual property isn't property.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 02:19:55 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Iconodule

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No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

At this point, any artist who doesn't have his head up his rear expects that people will be hearing or downloading his work without paying for it. Whether small or big, he and any label he's with has accounted for this reality and adjusted accordingly.

If you hear someone's music and like it, go ahead and buy it if you can, especially if the artist isn't on a major label. But let's stop pretending that we are somehow ruining careers by downloading someone's songs.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 02:27:56 PM by Iconodule »
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YouTube is policed to a large degree by rightsholders, who can invoke the DMCA to remove copyrighted content at will.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

At this point, any artist who doesn't have his head up his rear expects that people will be hearing or downloading his work without paying for it. Whether small or big, he and any label he's with has accounted for this reality and adjusted accordingly.

If you hear someone's music and like it, go ahead and buy it if you can, especially if the artist isn't on a major label. But let's stop pretending that we are somehow ruining careers by downloading someone's songs.
I'm not talking about anyone's career being ruined by people downloading their songs for free. I'm addressing Amatorus's blatant sense of entitlement to disregard copyright laws because he doesn't like what corporations are doing to him.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2015, 02:32:43 PM »
YouTube is policed to a large degree by rightsholders, who can invoke the DMCA to remove copyrighted content at will.
Yes, I've seen evidence of this on youtube.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2015, 02:59:29 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2015, 03:09:27 PM »
YouTube is policed to a large degree by rightsholders, who can invoke the DMCA to remove copyrighted content at will.
Yes, I've seen evidence of this on youtube.

Some artists seem to be very neurotic in this regard. Prince is one of them; I love "Purple Rain" but finding it on YouTube or other sites is virtually impossible because he or whoever works for him is always getting his songs taken down. That seems in keeping with his overall personality, too (he has repeatedly turned down Weird Al's requests to parody his songs, something few other artists have ever done. But Al didn't let the de-elevator bring him down).
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Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2015, 03:16:25 PM »
There's no such a thing as theft in regards to copyright because the "owner" is not deprived of the thing being stolen.

Copyrights are a useful and good form reward contract for the creativity of the person where they manage to get returns from major uses of their work.

The idea that people who copy or use such material in a granular way would otherwise be buying it is preposterous. People just get it because it's free, and most wouldn't pay a penny for it.

But *no one* is naturally entitled to get any form of material return for putting a certain idea or intellectual work in circulation. Want scarce material returns? Provide some scarce material good or service. Want recognition for your brilliant movie or music? How about getting a couple of movies and musics in return? Why do people demand repeated returns of scarce material rewards (money and/or services and goods) in exchange for recognition of one not repeated work?

You don't get to be fed for life for one single work as if in recognition of how brilliant and wonderful you are. *That* demand is what is immoral.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2015, 03:20:51 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

At this point, any artist who doesn't have his head up his rear expects that people will be hearing or downloading his work without paying for it. Whether small or big, he and any label he's with has accounted for this reality and adjusted accordingly.

If you hear someone's music and like it, go ahead and buy it if you can, especially if the artist isn't on a major label. But let's stop pretending that we are somehow ruining careers by downloading someone's songs.

Not to mention, very, very little of the money actually goes to artists and songwriters.  Take a look at this article: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100712/23482610186.shtml

Or this one, about 30 Seconds to Mars making $0 off an album that sold 2 million copies: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080820/0204472040.shtml

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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2015, 03:22:13 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Or actually go see a concert.  Which has a slightly higher chance than an album sale of actually getting money to the artist.
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Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2015, 03:25:12 PM »
The abuse of copyrights is the precursors of censorship and media manipulation. You wouldn't have teratological media companies pushing forward their bias if copyrights (privately controlled censorship) did not sustain them.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 03:28:03 PM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2015, 04:28:28 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Ah, the old "think of the exposure" argument.

Until you've tried living off your own creative work, please shut up.
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2015, 04:30:19 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Or actually go see a concert.  Which has a slightly higher chance than an album sale of actually getting money to the artist.

No, not really, at least not for any artist not on a major label with major support.  Touring nowadays costs a heck of a lot of money and, for the vast majority of musicians playing dinky clubs in Podunk, USA on a Tuesday night as you go from one major market gig to the next, you're lucky if you break even and that's with somehow managing to avoid motels, let alone hotels.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2015, 04:32:18 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Ah, the old "think of the exposure" argument.

Until you've tried living off your own creative work, please shut up.
This is exactly why it's immoral to download music without paying for it.

Now to the question of the OP: I don't think watching videos on YouTube is the same thing as downloading music you haven't paid for.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2015, 05:52:08 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Ah, the old "think of the exposure" argument.

Until you've tried living off your own creative work, please shut up.

It's not as good as the "unless you're directly involved you should shut up" argument that the PP folks like to come up with as well.

What did artists do before there were copyrights? Did they starve? Or has art only existed for the last 200 years or so?

Suppose scientists were to come up with a small hand-held device that could clone everything within a matter of seconds. Would it be immoral to clone cars with this device if it would bankrupt car manufacturers? I think not.

There's no such a thing as theft in regards to copyright because the "owner" is not deprived of the thing being stolen.

+1000

I believe downloading (torrents and such) is immoral, but what about listening to songs and other material that have been posted up by people who are not the creators of the material?  Is it a form of theft or not?

At least on YouTube, the creators do (usually) get royalties since the song is automatically recognized by YouTube as copyrighted. Sometimes people will purposely slow down or speed up songs in order to prevent this, usually because they don't want ads to appear on the video. I would regard that as immoral (at least for the person submitting the video, not necessarily the watcher if they're not aware this has happened).

What about using Adblock?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 05:59:56 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2015, 06:01:11 PM »
In the past, corporations robbed us by offering material that was substandard of what the artist created, then expected us to pay again when technology improved to get what we paid for in the first place.

If you have at any time bought an album or movie,you have paid for the right to copy it for your own use. From any source.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2015, 06:53:53 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Ah, the old "think of the exposure" argument.

Until you've tried living off your own creative work, please shut up.

It's not as good as the "unless you're directly involved you should shut up" argument that the PP folks like to come up with as well.

What did artists do before there were copyrights? Did they starve? Or has art only existed for the last 200 years or so?
One can argue with the merit of copyright laws and complain that they're stupid in and of themselves, and I might even agree with you. The fact we have to face, though, is that these laws are in place right now to protect what we now recognize as an artist's right to draw an income from his/her creative work, and it is immoral to deprive artists of the income due their work by not obeying these laws.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2015, 06:57:09 PM »
If you have at any time bought an album or movie,you have paid for the right to copy it for your own use. From any source.
That is true, but that's not the copying being discussed here.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2015, 07:07:25 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Ah, the old "think of the exposure" argument.

Until you've tried living off your own creative work, please shut up.

It's not as good as the "unless you're directly involved you should shut up" argument that the PP folks like to come up with as well.

What did artists do before there were copyrights? Did they starve? Or has art only existed for the last 200 years or so?
One can argue with the merit of copyright laws and complain that they're stupid in and of themselves, and I might even agree with you. The fact we have to face, though, is that these laws are in place right now to protect what we now recognize as an artist's right to draw an income from his/her creative work, and it is immoral to deprive artists of the income due their work by not obeying these laws.

Actually they're in place to protect a corporations right to draw an income from an artist's creative work.  That's why copyrights last for the life of the author plus 70 years.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2015, 08:16:45 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Ah, the old "think of the exposure" argument.

Until you've tried living off your own creative work, please shut up.

It's not as good as the "unless you're directly involved you should shut up" argument that the PP folks like to come up with as well.

What did artists do before there were copyrights? Did they starve? Or has art only existed for the last 200 years or so?
One can argue with the merit of copyright laws and complain that they're stupid in and of themselves, and I might even agree with you. The fact we have to face, though, is that these laws are in place right now to protect what we now recognize as an artist's right to draw an income from his/her creative work, and it is immoral to deprive artists of the income due their work by not obeying these laws.

Actually they're in place to protect a corporations right to draw an income from an artist's creative work.
And also to protect the rights of an artist's family to draw an income from the artist's creative work after the artist has died. This provision was asserted by the family of Sergei Rachmaninoff when they sued Eric Carmen for his plagiarism of the second movement of Sergei's Piano Concerto No. 2 in Carmen's song "All By Myself".
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2015, 08:18:35 PM »
So how long does an artist's family have a "right" to derive income from an artist's work?  Should we be seeking to compensate the British Crown every time we use the KJV?
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2015, 08:33:43 PM »
So how long does an artist's family have a "right" to derive income from an artist's work?
You answered that question yourself just a few posts ago: for the life of the artist plus 70 years.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2015, 08:39:32 PM »
So how long does an artist's family have a "right" to derive income from an artist's work?
You answered that question yourself just a few posts ago: for the life of the artist plus 70 years.

But then the law is not actually designed to protect that right.  Rather, it creates that right.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2015, 08:56:40 PM »
So how long does an artist's family have a "right" to derive income from an artist's work?
You answered that question yourself just a few posts ago: for the life of the artist plus 70 years.

But then the law is not actually designed to protect that right.  Rather, it creates that right.
You're arguing something other than the question I answered.

Look, we can debate the morality of the concepts of intellectual property and copyright law all we want, but that debate does nothing to answer the OP. As I read it, the OP didn't ask about the morality of copyright law per se. She asked about the morality of viewing copyrighted material on YouTube, which assumes that, moral or immoral, these laws are now on the books and therefore command our obedience.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 08:57:43 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline wgw

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2015, 09:58:16 PM »
So how long does an artist's family have a "right" to derive income from an artist's work?  Should we be seeking to compensate the British Crown every time we use the KJV?

The KJV is still under Crown copyright with somewhat odious restrictions imposed by the Queen's Printer.
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Offline RobS

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2015, 10:13:40 PM »
No, because the Internet should be a free culture network for learjing and improving life. Corporations get enough money. If it bothers ypu, tell yourself you'll start respecting extensive copyright when corps stop inserting malware and Spyware into ads.
What if you're the author or musician drawing royalties from your work? Would you want to suffer the consequences of someone's attempts to stick it to the "evil" corporations?

If someone would't have bought it anyhow, why not? Perhaps he'll recommend my work to others who will buy it.

Or actually go see a concert.  Which has a slightly higher chance than an album sale of actually getting money to the artist.

No, not really, at least not for any artist not on a major label with major support.  Touring nowadays costs a heck of a lot of money and, for the vast majority of musicians playing dinky clubs in Podunk, USA on a Tuesday night as you go from one major market gig to the next, you're lucky if you break even and that's with somehow managing to avoid motels, let alone hotels.
Have you ever seen the documentary Artifact? I highly recommend it.

Most of your independent artists who aren't popular don't have a choice, they have to live on the road. It's really sad.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 10:15:03 PM by nothing »
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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2015, 10:19:29 PM »
So how long does an artist's family have a "right" to derive income from an artist's work?  Should we be seeking to compensate the British Crown every time we use the KJV?

The KJV is still under Crown copyright with somewhat odious restrictions imposed by the Queen's Printer.

I wonder how the KJVO people feel about that.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2015, 10:24:23 PM »
So how long does an artist's family have a "right" to derive income from an artist's work?  Should we be seeking to compensate the British Crown every time we use the KJV?

The KJV is still under Crown copyright with somewhat odious restrictions imposed by the Queen's Printer.
That is only in the UK. In the rest of the world, it is in the public domain.
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Offline sakura95

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2015, 02:01:05 PM »
tbh, I don't even bother to take time and think about it.

All my university textbooks had been downloaded free from the internet itself alongside all the books about Christian history or Orthodox theology I had ever read.

I do the same with games and music too (:

The allure of free is just impossible to resist even if it is so wrong.....
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2015, 02:33:41 PM »
Are poor people who can barely afford Internet access supposed to just toil and never enjoy anything, according to copyright defender logic? Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps am I right???

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2015, 02:49:36 PM »
Are poor people who can barely afford Internet access supposed to just toil and never enjoy anything, according to copyright defender logic? Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps am I right???
I'm with you. That is why I support the theft of cars, luxury goods, and electronic devices such as smartphones, tablets and laptops. Down with the bourgoise!
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2015, 04:05:13 PM »
Are poor people who can barely afford Internet access supposed to just toil and never enjoy anything, according to copyright defender logic? Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps am I right???
I'm with you. That is why I support the theft of cars, luxury goods, and electronic devices such as smartphones, tablets and laptops. Down with the bourgoise!

I don't mean that, but lower middle class don't and shouldn't be spending their money on HBO subscription especially since it's not like these products are Christian owned or created anyway

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2015, 04:11:44 PM »
Are poor people who can barely afford Internet access supposed to just toil and never enjoy anything, according to copyright defender logic? Pulling yourself up by the bootstraps am I right???
No. Who says the poor (or the rich, for that matter) are entitled to get any luxury they want? If your survival doesn't require that you have something and you don't have the money to buy it, then live within your means. Don't steal what you want just because you want it.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 04:16:56 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2015, 04:54:17 PM »
Don't steal what you want just because you want it.

Alright, but watching a YouTube video isn't stealing. As Fabio remarked:

There's no such a thing as theft in regards to copyright because the "owner" is not deprived of the thing being stolen.

It is at best infringing upon state-granted monopoly rights, but isn't that what those dudes dressed up as Indians did when they threw British tea into the Boston advocated?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 05:00:08 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Is it immoral to listen to clips of copyrighted material posted on Youtube?
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2015, 07:18:16 PM »
Don't steal what you want just because you want it.

Alright, but watching a YouTube video isn't stealing.
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