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Melodist
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« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2013, 11:19:00 PM »

Let God Judge them.

Believing that the Orthodox Church teaches the truth about God and how we are to relate to Him is in no way a judgement of personal character or statement of who's going where in the age to come on any individual, Orthodox or not.

I don't know how to say it more clearly than this.
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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2013, 11:55:12 AM »

Let God Judge them.

I do not want that job Grin
◄  Matthew 18:20  ►


For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

I am not suggesting we accept any doctrine, But that we quit trying to be picky rather than forgive.
He said mercy above all else, and who are we to judge others.

And most of what has occurred in the past , such as the differences over the Pope, I agree with both sides somewhat, but my preferences are not more Important than Love and faith, God will not judge you wrongly based on what church you were brought up in.Or what church you converted to. do you think he should condemn those others who did not convert with you, or do you think he will condemn those for the mistakes of their churches doctrine?


I don't think anyone here has said anything about judging or condemning anyone (except you, maybe). And for the record I do feel sorry for those who are not Orthodox!
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« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2013, 12:02:11 PM »

Let God Judge them.

I do not want that job Grin
◄  Matthew 18:20  ►


For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

I am not suggesting we accept any doctrine, But that we quit trying to be picky rather than forgive.
He said mercy above all else, and who are we to judge others.

And most of what has occurred in the past , such as the differences over the Pope, I agree with both sides somewhat, but my preferences are not more Important than Love and faith, God will not judge you wrongly based on what church you were brought up in.Or what church you converted to. do you think he should condemn those others who did not convert with you, or do you think he will condemn those for the mistakes of their churches doctrine?


I don't think anyone here has said anything about judging or condemning anyone (except you, maybe). And for the record I do feel sorry for those who are not Orthodox!

maybe they feel the same thing for you since you are not part of their flock.
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katherineofdixie
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« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2013, 12:06:02 PM »

I'm sure they do. Your point?
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"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

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« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2013, 02:01:11 PM »

I'm sure they do. Your point?

Quit feeling sorry for people. Because at the end of time, you might find yourself going to the kingdom of God, after them.
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« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2013, 02:56:22 PM »

I'm sure they do. Your point?

Quit feeling sorry for people. Because at the end of time, you might find yourself going to the kingdom of God, after them.

I get more and more confused daily. Tweety as an Othodox Christian don't you believe that you participate in the kingdom of God here and now within the life of the church? One of the things I like most about Orthodoxy is how it doesn't shy away from its position of Truth in the world. However it seems that among the people that's not Always applicable.
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katherineofdixie
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« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2013, 03:16:06 PM »

I'm sure they do. Your point?

Quit feeling sorry for people. Because at the end of time, you might find yourself going to the kingdom of God, after them.

Really? I'm shocked - shocked to hear you say that!!!
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"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

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tweety234
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« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2013, 03:17:31 PM »

I'm sure they do. Your point?

Quit feeling sorry for people. Because at the end of time, you might find yourself going to the kingdom of God, after them.

I get more and more confused daily. Tweety as an Othodox Christian don't you believe that you participate in the kingdom of God here and now within the life of the church? One of the things I like most about Orthodoxy is how it doesn't shy away from its position of Truth in the world. However it seems that among the people that's not Always applicable.

to me the kingdom of God is where i can see him. Here on earth I can't see him. Therefore I am living in hopes of one day being made worthy by him to partcipate.
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tweety234
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« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2013, 03:18:19 PM »

I'm sure they do. Your point?

Quit feeling sorry for people. Because at the end of time, you might find yourself going to the kingdom of God, after them.

Really? I'm shocked - shocked to hear you say that!!!

and this is why?
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Sinful Hypocrite
Everyday I am critical of others. Every day I make similar mistakes. Every day I am a hypocrite.
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Great googly moogly!


« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2013, 07:57:33 PM »

Let God Judge them.

Believing that the Orthodox Church teaches the truth about God and how we are to relate to Him is in no way a judgement of personal character or statement of who's going where in the age to come on any individual, Orthodox or not.

I don't know how to say it more clearly than this.
Our church had a sign in the sunday school classroom that read
God first

Others second

Yourself last

So that would also mean putting their church as better than yours,or at least as good.

If people say(not necessarily you here,I cannot keep track,Generally speaking though)that they have the best Church and speak as if there is a reason they are better than them(Protestant,Catholic, Orthodox,) That sounds like a bad judgement of the others church and or faith.

I have heard others who are clergy say much worse than you about this ,or any one here for that matter,God bless you all.I have also argued with my Greek orthodox preist, He agrees with me but also he  has to be following the doctrine, but most Preists and or Bishops do not agree on all Doctrine, this is all I pray we can overcome .

Jesus specifically warned against our righteosness over others,

And he was most clear.

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed abouta himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 08:14:15 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“
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« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2013, 08:39:28 PM »

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector

This has nothing to do with believing that any church in particular teaches the truth or that any other church may be wrong about some things or lack historical continuity with the Church established by our Lord on Pentecost.
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And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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Great googly moogly!


« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2013, 09:04:57 PM »

I believe it does, and No one has shown one thing Jesus said (Gospels as I have time and again in this thread) to back their prejudice towards other churches being below theirs.

Because a church is not a building or set of rules, a church is made up of us sinners,and just as Jesus refused to prejudge them or postjudge them based on his ministry, going to pray where he knew he was to be rejected, he was welcoming all,and willing to be merciful to any sinner, including the worst such as me.

Here is a Commentary on this also.
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
18:9-14 This parable was to convince some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others. God sees with what disposition and design we come to him in holy ordinances. What the Pharisee said, shows that he trusted to himself that he was righteous. We may suppose he was free from gross and scandalous sins. All this was very well and commendable. Miserable is the condition of those who come short of the righteousness of this Pharisee, yet he was not accepted; and why not? He went up to the temple to pray, but was full of himself and his own goodness; the favour and grace of God he did not think worth asking. Let us beware of presenting proud devotions to the Lord, and of despising others. The publican's address to God was full of humility, and of repentance for sin, and desire toward God. His prayer was short, but to the purpose; God be merciful to me a sinner. Blessed be God, that we have this short prayer upon record, as an answered prayer; and that we are sure that he who prayed it, went to his house justified; for so shall we be, if we pray it, as he did, through Jesus Christ. He owned himself a sinner by nature, by practice, guilty before God. He had no dependence but upon the mercy of God; upon that alone he relied. And God's glory is to resist the proud, and give grace to the humble. Justification is of God in Christ; therefore the self-condemned, and not the self-righteous, are justified before God.
God bless us all .

Jesus Christ ,son of God ,have mercy on us all.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 09:07:34 PM by Sinful Hypocrite » Logged

The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“
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« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2013, 10:00:35 PM »

I believe it does, and No one has shown one thing Jesus said (Gospels as I have time and again in this thread) to back their prejudice towards other churches being below theirs.

John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Matt 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Because a church is not a building or set of rules, a church is made up of us sinners

The Church is a community, always has been from the day of Pentecost, and that has never changed and never will.

Quote
he was welcoming all,and willing to be merciful to any sinner, including the worst such as me.

That doesn't change the fact that no matter how much we may hold in common with any non-Orthodox church, they still do not hold the correct faith in continuity with the community established on the day of Pentecast.

Quote
Here is a Commentary on this also.
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
18:9-14 This parable was to convince some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others. God sees with what disposition and design we come to him in holy ordinances. What the Pharisee said, shows that he trusted to himself that he was righteous. We may suppose he was free from gross and scandalous sins. All this was very well and commendable. Miserable is the condition of those who come short of the righteousness of this Pharisee, yet he was not accepted; and why not? He went up to the temple to pray, but was full of himself and his own goodness; the favour and grace of God he did not think worth asking. Let us beware of presenting proud devotions to the Lord, and of despising others. The publican's address to God was full of humility, and of repentance for sin, and desire toward God. His prayer was short, but to the purpose; God be merciful to me a sinner. Blessed be God, that we have this short prayer upon record, as an answered prayer; and that we are sure that he who prayed it, went to his house justified; for so shall we be, if we pray it, as he did, through Jesus Christ. He owned himself a sinner by nature, by practice, guilty before God. He had no dependence but upon the mercy of God; upon that alone he relied. And God's glory is to resist the proud, and give grace to the humble. Justification is of God in Christ; therefore the self-condemned, and not the self-righteous, are justified before God.
God bless us all .

The above says absolutely nothing about religious affiliation, but speaks of pride, and despite the fact that it does not come from an Orthodox source, in this instance, it is Orthodox in content so I will not argue with anything in the above quote.
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Personal Text? We can have personal text?


« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2013, 01:12:18 AM »

An Orthodox reading Matthew Henry  Huh ...Okay  Undecided

Let God Judge them.
I do not want that job Grin
Who said anything about judging the people, I'm talking about the belief system.

Because a church is not a building or set of rules, a church is made up of us sinners,
True, and yet in the context of the OP  which was asking about beliefs, this misses the mark. This, I think, is the disconnect. I'm talking about belief systems and the judgements I've made about them relative to my own actions and beliefs your talking about other people. When I began the process of converting it was not about people it was about beliefs. The Orthodox church I go to is in another city and hour away, the church I left is in my city. I still see those people in the store, at parties, we still go to each others homes at times. I love them, I hug on them and I don't think I'm better than them.

I am not suggesting we accept any doctrine,...
Good, I was starting to get worried. Wink

But that we quit trying to be picky rather than forgive. He said mercy above all else, and who are we to judge others.
Forgiveness is for people, not belief systems. None of the people in my previous church have done anything to cause me to need to forgive them or judge them.

God will not judge you wrongly based on what church you were brought up in.
God, of course, will not judge anyone "wrongly"  Grin but I don't think that's what you meant. I don't think I disagree with you here.

Or what church you converted to.
But I do think I will be judged based on what I do with the knowledge I have. Correct doctrine once known and understood does matter.

do you think he should condemn those others who did not convert with you, or do you think he will condemn those for the mistakes of their churches doctrine?
I certainly hope he doesn't but what God does with others is their business and God's, not mine. Hmm that sounds familiar.  angel

and just as Jesus refused to prejudge them or postjudge them based on his ministry, going to pray where he knew he was to be rejected, he was welcoming all,and willing to be merciful to any sinner, including the worst such as me.
Jesus, of course, is God He can go anywhere He wants. I on the other hand am a weak and sinful human I should perhaps be more careful. Look, I've been to my parent's Protestant church (and my Orthodox priest uncle with me) several times since moving towards Orthodoxy and my brother-in-law's Roman Catholic church. But these are special occasions, the Orthodox church is where I go to worship and to pray, I think there's a canon or something...
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Prov. 3: 5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths.
Psalm 37:23 The Lord guides a man safely in the way he should go.
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