Author Topic: misceallaneous topics  (Read 2077 times)

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Offline mikeforjesus

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misceallaneous topics
« on: October 11, 2015, 09:02:15 AM »
My beliefs

Q: why is abortion wrong?

A1: If someone decides this and they don't repent the baby may also perish. To do this with plan to repent later may lead to you dying unprepared.

A2: They may be saved regardless but they will be like the angels they will not be princes and queens in heaven like the saints but they will be servants like the angels maybe even less than the angels. Angels may not be less but are a different creation and only less in design or role but not from actions

Q: Can good non christians be saved?
A: No salvation is only through Christ. But those who were deceived may perish and as they kept the good things from their parents and did not commit suicide they will not be damned. But deceivers will be damned because they made others perish.

Q: Don't suicides at most deserve to perish and at least be saved and not be damned?

A: The church teaches only those who were insane can be saved. I agree with this. Others are similar to deceivers because they seek to deceive God they know their responsibility and will be damned. Still others may have some excuse but I say this with caution and not knowing and may perish

Q: Why must the devil be damned? can't he and those whom he deceives both perish? Why is the devil responsible for others perishing and God making sure people are not deceived?

A: God kept the devil to give us free will. He allows our heart to be hardened. People who choose the light and goodness of our God without God interfering deserve to be princes in heaven. People are not like the angels so it could not be any other way





« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 09:15:43 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2015, 09:28:21 AM »
My beliefs

Q: why is abortion wrong?

A1: If someone decides this and they don't repent the baby may also perish. To do this with plan to repent later may lead to you dying unprepared.

A2: They may be saved regardless but they will be like the angels they will not be princes and queens in heaven like the saints but they will be servants like the angels maybe even less than the angels. Angels may not be less but are a different creation and only less in design or role but not from actions

Q: Can good non christians be saved?
A: No salvation is only through Christ. But those who were deceived may perish and as they kept the good things from their parents and did not commit suicide they will not be damned. But deceivers will be damned because they made others perish.

Q: Don't suicides at most deserve to perish and at least be saved and not be damned?

A: The church teaches only those who were insane can be saved. I agree with this. Others are similar to deceivers because they seek to deceive God they know their responsibility and will be damned. Still others may have some excuse but I say this with caution and not knowing and may perish

Q: Why must the devil be damned? can't he and those whom he deceives both perish? Why is the devil responsible for others perishing and God making sure people are not deceived?

A: God kept the devil to give us free will. He allows our heart to be hardened. People who choose the light and goodness of our God without God interfering deserve to be princes in heaven. People are not like the angels so it could not be any other way

If I'm not mistaken, wouldn't this be a good thing, since we're supposed to be like Christ who came not to be served but to be a servant?
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 10:18:09 AM »
I had problems articulating that part of my beliefs handed from my many teachers if I find an answer I will respond later

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2015, 04:09:40 AM »
Q: why is christ the only way ?

A: this is not my teaching but jesus own and the apostles

Acts 4:12 (NKJV)
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved

Unbelievers can not be saved even if they do good but they can perish they can do some real good but anyway they can't keep all Christs commandments. They also might do good out of fear or earthly reward but no actual love because love is poured out by the Holy Spirit only on those who believe
Notice the word MUST which means they won't be saved after death either
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 04:14:39 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2015, 06:46:45 AM »
I must make sure everyone understands that only the righteous non christians who have never harmed others I believe will escape eternal suffering and will perish.
As to who has harmed others it may not be as simple as deceivers it may include big sins like being insensitive and making one feel like killing himself especially when he does and small sins but I don't know. But I have no right to say who is going to hell only what I think is right God alone has the authority and it is a sin to take God's job. But Jesus is the only way to heaven
« Last Edit: October 20, 2015, 07:10:57 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2015, 08:14:30 AM »
Q: why is christ the only way ?

A: this is not my teaching but jesus own and the apostles

Acts 4:12 (NKJV)
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved

Unbelievers can not be saved even if they do good but they can perish they can do some real good but anyway they can't keep all Christs commandments. They also might do good out of fear or earthly reward but no actual love because love is poured out by the Holy Spirit only on those who believe
Notice the word MUST which means they won't be saved after death either


This verse seems to hint that after death repentance is unaccepted because it is insincere.

Jeremiah 2:27-28 (NKJV)

27 Saying to a tree, ‘You are my father,’
And to a stone, ‘You gave birth to me.’
For they have turned their back to Me, and not their face.
But in the time of their trouble
They will say, ‘Arise and save us.’
28 But where are your gods that you have made for yourselves?
Let them arise,
If they can save you in the time of your trouble;
For according to the number of your cities
Are your gods, O Judah.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2015, 02:19:55 AM »
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« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 02:21:36 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2015, 08:52:34 AM »
I should or would like to correct what I said. My dad said not to say those beliefs on the forum about people perishing because he could be wrong. He knows it is not orthodox

Q: Will the saved rejoice that the damned suffer ?

I believe perhaps every knee shall bow even those under the earth but the wicked shall bow unwillingly they will be in hell away from the Lord or in His presence  but Matthew 25 seems to say away from the Lord
Nothing which defiles shall enter the holy city. This perhaps means no one shall be allowed in heaven who makes it hell or tempts others to be evil. The Devils and deceivers will not even enter heaven at all. Some may enter the kingdom  as second class citizens forever and slaves as Daniel says everlasting Shame and contempt but Isaiah says their worm does not die and their fire is not quenched they will be an abhorrence to all flesh similar to contempt and may imply people will be in hell by abhorrence is meant the saints will come to see the goodness of Gods judgements

Also those who are in Christ who were righteous but not enough righteous to see Christ directly will not perish but I think will be disciplined for it is written only the pure in heart shall directly see God and if scarcely a righteous man is saved where shall those who do not obey the gospel appear.
I think this means most righteous do not go to heaven directly but go to be disciplined first. Only those who are saints will see God directly who took their salvation very seriously and often did not see and let a person leave this earth poor without helping them if they could. Maybe all need to at least try to be righteous like this or we will never go to heaven

the scripture says every knee shall bow even those under the earth and every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father this does not mean they will not do this away from the saints though the saints will be aware of it as Abraham was though he couldn't cross the gulf perhaps that gulf is not separate location as the rich man saw Lazarus in Abraham's bosom and Jesus said the kingdom is within you or maybe it is as Jesus said unless a man is born again he can not see the kingdom of God. He who believes not shall not see life but the wrath of God abides on him maybe this means not to see the special things stored up for those who love Him

It is up to you to search the truth
I can only tell you there may be a hell
Otherwise you are not rewarded if you are forced to believe. I could be wrong or right
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 09:04:43 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2015, 10:16:54 AM »
We can know certain things with certainty.
We can know The Church is right.
We can know The Medicine The Church gives us is right.
We can know that to do productive things for Christ, which is The Church is right.
We can know Prayer is good and helpful.

We cannot know everything and idle speculation, that which does not affirm Christ and The Church, can be better spent.
God is The Creator of All Free Beings

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2015, 02:08:19 AM »
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« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 02:09:07 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2015, 11:29:10 AM »
.
Quote
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2015, 06:54:37 AM »
Q: why Sodom got no miracles and today you can ? Why did Jesus not give to them but He did to Jerusalem ?

A: If the people of Sodom were honest they would get a miracle privately but Jesus showed off His miracles only to the Jews to show they were worse than sodom
But blessed are those who believe without seeing

Q: How can Protestants be saved if they are not baptised and born of water and if they do not take Christ's body and blood ?

A: Some are open to baptism and  communion and do not reject it out of evil but are not sure and won't have the sacraments for themselves because they are not sure it is the way to save the world or family  (because they do not have that peace yet I encourage them to pray and learn more to get peace about orthodoxy I can not tell them to join if they do not feel it is right
Christ can pour out the Spirit on all and baptise them and give them communion after death because they did not blaspheme the sacraments
But they have to ask themselves has their sub conscience been cleaned from their sins ? do they have the Holy Spirit do they have the power to live holy lives ? When I don't take communion I feel that is why perhaps I fall more often but I suppose praying very often could help also but it is a harder way perhaps but perhaps not too hard)
But because they have the desire to be baptised and take communion but they are not sure it pleases God if they reject other Christians who are not orthodox perhaps this applies to them "other sheep I have which are not of this fold. Them also I must bring. They will hear My voice and there will be one flock and one shepherd"
It could include also non Christians who have never heard of Christianity but obeyed their conscience and sought God. God will preach to them which is meant by hear His voice and give them both the life giving sacraments
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 07:08:38 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline hecma925

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2015, 07:15:38 AM »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2015, 08:25:07 AM »
Dear Mike,

I always appreciate your sincere and honest questions. But the truth is that you will never find sufficient, consistent, and final answers outside of the Church. And also, the truth is that you won't even find perfectly consistent answers within the Church.

As an evangelical Protestant I was consumed with trying to find the perfect systematic theology that would erase all my doubts and provide an unassailable doctrinal, philosophical, and moral framework. But there is really no such thing. However, within the Church we find a continuum of sound doctrine, social teaching, and biblical interpretation that has guided Christians for 2,000 years. Within the Church we can debate many issues, and many issues are not up for debate. But the Church lives, it breathes, it grows; and yet it remains the only authentic stalwart against false doctrines, social injustices, and worldly philosophies. Trust the Church. Be baptized into the Church. Find freedom and salvation in the Church.

If you never come into Orthodoxy, I will still view you as my brother. I would never presume to say that you can't be saved outside of the Church. But I just think you will really find the peace and security you crave if you just finally submit to the True Faith.

Just my humble opinion dear brother.


Selam   
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 08:25:50 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus »
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2015, 08:56:04 AM »
Thanks Gebre for your care. I am orthodox. I have been baptised as such as an infant. The orthodox church has held the faith from ancient times until now but this does not mean it does not face challenges guarding the faith. The coptic church as evidenced by even a sermon I heard today teaches Christ is the only way to the kingdom of heaven.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2015, 10:26:43 AM »
Thanks Gebre for your care. I am orthodox. I have been baptised as such as an infant. The orthodox church has held the faith from ancient times until now but this does not mean it does not face challenges guarding the faith. The coptic church as evidenced by even a sermon I heard today teaches Christ is the only way to the kingdom of heaven.

Oh, I apologize. I am glad to know that. Pray for me brother.


Selam
"Whether it’s the guillotine, the hangman’s noose, or reciprocal endeavors of militaristic horror, radical evil will never be recompensed with radical punishment. The only answer, the only remedy, and the only truly effective response to radical evil is radical love."
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2015, 07:50:26 PM »
I will pray for you pray for me too

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2015, 12:11:11 AM »
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« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 12:16:59 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2015, 10:22:18 PM »
Q: Will the lost see the kingdom of God?

A: temporarily probably yes probably not permanently

Q: will God and the saved rejoice that the damned suffer ?

A: No and yes God prefers it otherwise but He loved humans so much that He demands and deserves praise from every one  of them. Every tongue shall give glory to God. I have come to believe people are able to complete reject Jesus and hate His character.He may not perish any for reasons known to Him perhaps less will be saved that way
Everyone Perhaps obtains mercy but not in the kingdom of God for God is not the God of the dead but of the living. He shall tell them to depart from Him. Every knee shall bow before Him.
But there are levels in hell those who are Devils or like them shall have no rest day or night
Proverbs says God has made all for Himself even the wicked for the day of doom
And that they will seek Him diligently and not find Him
But those who go to hell really deserve to get there you have to trust God who is most loving and just
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 10:29:22 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2015, 11:09:46 PM »
Q: Will the lost see the kingdom of God?

A: temporarily probably yes probably not permanently

Q: will God and the saved rejoice that the damned suffer ?

A: No and yes God prefers it otherwise but He loved humans so much that He demands and deserves praise from every one  of them. Every tongue shall give glory to God. I have come to believe people are able to complete reject Jesus and hate His character.He may not perish any for reasons known to Him perhaps less will be saved that way
Everyone Perhaps obtains mercy but not in the kingdom of God for God is not the God of the dead but of the living. He shall tell them to depart from Him. Every knee shall bow before Him.
But there are levels in hell those who are Devils or like them shall have no rest day or night
Proverbs says God has made all for Himself even the wicked for the day of doom
And that they will seek Him diligently and not find Him
But those who go to hell really deserve to get there you have to trust God who is most loving and just

I think it's unhealthy to concern ourselves with speculations about hell. Focus on the love and mercy of God. Bathe in His love, preach His love, live His love. Why focus on the domain of devils when Christ tells us to focus on the Kingdom? Why preach hellfire and damnation when we can preach mercy and love? Fear is a feckless apologetic.

"The mercy of God endureth forever." [Psalm 136]


Selam
"Whether it’s the guillotine, the hangman’s noose, or reciprocal endeavors of militaristic horror, radical evil will never be recompensed with radical punishment. The only answer, the only remedy, and the only truly effective response to radical evil is radical love."
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2015, 12:57:31 AM »
+1

Do not be concerned about how the condemnation is, but how you live your life so much so that you become a lighthouse for others to join you in the love of Christ you have in the One Holy Church.

Mike, how is the book on prayer by Metropolitan Anthony Bloom going?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 12:58:03 AM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2015, 01:09:07 AM »
I have the book. I have not read it yet because I don't want to be disappointed. Prayer seems like a gift I do not deserve yet if ever. I will read the book soon
It is very hard to learn to pray. I am also distracted by worries that I am missing out on useful work  hobbies. I don't want people to think I am boring . I want to be able to entertain guests
I try very hard to find words to pray but can not find


« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 01:11:10 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline minasoliman

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2015, 01:17:55 AM »
Prayer is not a gift, it is a duty.  It is like food.  Without prayer we die.  Do not be deceived by thoughts of not deserving prayer.  It is not a matter of deserving or not.  It's a necessity!
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2015, 01:25:52 AM »
Prayer is not a gift, it is a duty.  It is like food.  Without prayer we die.  Do not be deceived by thoughts of not deserving prayer.  It is not a matter of deserving or not.  It's a necessity!

Ok you are right

It was recommended in church to start praying from agpeya in a sermon.
I will start there
I used to pray a lot then I got faint I would order pizza then I would forget about prayer
I guess I was not grateful for the time God was talking to me and speaking to me
Truth is I don't like praying because I don't want God changing my whole life
I don't want to face persecution from the world by people calling me crazy for the thoughts I get from spending time with God I mean the thoughts I contemplate on as I pray
I got tired of these distractions and troubles from my head or the devil
People would also come and I tried to stop prayer lest they hear some things I say which they ought not to hear
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 01:28:47 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline minasoliman

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2015, 01:34:52 AM »
It's okay to feel anxious about your struggles, but very easily people forget the "taste" of the Godly life embracing your whole being.  Instead of concentrating on the beauty of God, one gets easily distracted, and asks too many anxious and confusing questions.  It's easier to just be doubtful and ask "about" God.  But once one asks God directly and knows Him intimately, all other questions and cares of the world go away.  Even those who insult you will not even be able to hurt you because you are too involved in the divine life, and you only pity and wish those who insult you may enter what you are in.

Too many times, people get distracted and ask about the problems of evil and make assumptions about the infinite God rather than allow the infinite fullness to fill you with more than you expect to get.  Sometimes, the answers don't come easy so that you may stress the relationship more, which is the superior knowledge.  Do not pay attention to those who distract you with vain ramblings of doubts and ridicules.  Keep steady with your eyes on Christ and you will be able to walk on stormy waters in your life.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2015, 03:48:12 AM »
Thanks I like what you said but you brought up an interesting point that I did not know how to express what exists in me. You said you will want others to have what you have. I partly do not pray because I despair of others having a relationship with God so why do I suffer for nothing

Offline minasoliman

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2015, 07:33:11 AM »
Well, I noticed you do get easily distracted.  Try changing your perspective.  You shouldn't despair to want them to have that relationship with God that you should also strive for.  Jonah himself was reluctant to help Nineveh, knowing that God is a merciful God who will help them.  God had to force him to help the people of Nineveh.  So perhaps your suffering comes from not letting go of your concerns and your distractions and just enjoy the presence of Christ in prayer.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 07:36:09 AM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2015, 09:16:53 AM »

But those who go to hell really deserve to get there you have to trust God who is most loving and just

This means it could be fair otherwise some may perish or have eternal shame in heaven

Offline minasoliman

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2015, 09:21:34 AM »
It is not fair to torture yourself in speculating about this anymore.  Think about PRAYING for as many people around you you know as possible to go with you to heaven.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2015, 09:21:53 AM »
Well, I noticed you do get easily distracted.  Try changing your perspective.  You shouldn't despair to want them to have that relationship with God that you should also strive for.  Jonah himself was reluctant to help Nineveh, knowing that God is a merciful God who will help them.  God had to force him to help the people of Nineveh.  So perhaps your suffering comes from not letting go of your concerns and your distractions and just enjoy the presence of Christ in prayer.


Maybe but I thought I wanted to help people I guess I do not sometimes because I feel like I have already caused some people to be lost or sinning or I feel those I help materially will choose to be lost because someone they love died lost or is rejecting Christ
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 09:24:33 AM by mikeforjesus »

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2015, 09:23:05 AM »
I thought I would post before you do I didn't mean to ignore your post

Offline minasoliman

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2015, 09:24:01 AM »
Help them by PRAYING for them, not by talking to them or teaching them.  Let God be their guide and let you be their intercessor.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2015, 09:25:41 AM »
I thought I would post before you do I didn't mean to ignore your post
. No worries :)
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2015, 09:25:51 AM »
I planned on helping them by tutoring them mathematics

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2015, 09:30:40 AM »
Help them by PRAYING for them, not by talking to them or teaching them.  Let God be their guide and let you be their intercessor.

I shall try to have a prayer life and to pray for people

Offline minasoliman

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2015, 09:39:45 AM »
I planned on helping them by tutoring them mathematics
oh that's good!  I meant like teaching them spirituality or dogma.  But by all means continue tutoring in math if that's what you're good at!  Absolutely! 
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2015, 09:51:45 AM »
Thanks :)

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Re: misceallaneous topics
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2015, 02:47:26 AM »

Also those who are in Christ who were righteous but not enough righteous to see Christ directly will not perish but I think will be disciplined for it is written only the pure in heart shall directly see God and if scarcely a righteous man is saved where shall those who do not obey the gospel appear.
I think this means most righteous do not go to heaven directly but go to be disciplined first. Only those who are saints will see God directly who took their salvation very seriously and often did not see and let a person leave this earth poor without helping them if they could. Maybe all need to at least try to be righteous like this or we will never go to heaven

Only God can determine if the progress is worthy enough to go to purgatory and if one is ready Jesus says not everyone who says to Me Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom of God
Without holiness no one will see the Lord
Some say those people who say to Him Lord Lord are those who do not trust in His blood but add good works but Jesus made that quote in reference to doing the things He commanded saying he who hears these sayings of Mine and does not do them will be like the foolish man who built his house on the sand but Jesus gets the glory in making His commandments not burdensome saying His burden is light. We are His workmanship in Christ Jesus. That is God wills in us to do for His pleasure. We need only to always let him.
My son give Me your heart says the Lord and let your eyes observe My ways
Speak Lord your servant listens
True faith has works
If one says he believes but does not obey the Lord it is false faith
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 03:01:32 AM by mikeforjesus »