Author Topic: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**  (Read 4351 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline t0m_dR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 174

http://www.hagiasophiablog.com/mainpage.html

If you believe in the just case that Hagia Sophia should be restored to its
proper religious role as a church, for which it was built in the first
place, then we ask you to support our petition to the EU Parliament that
Turkey should not be admitted as a member of the European Community until it
restores Hagia Sophia to its original purpose as a church and not a museum.

We need a minimum of 1.000.000 signatures in order to force the European
Union to consider this proposal seriously and debate it immediately as one
of the conditions to allow Turkey to be admitted as a new member of the EU.

http://www.hagiasophiablog.com/mainpage.html

Offline FrChris

  • The Rodney Dangerfield of OC.net
  • Site Supporter
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,252
  • Holy Father Patrick, thank you for your help!
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2005, 09:22:12 AM »
I signed in! We'll see if the EU is at all interested in the signature of an American (LOL) but at least I can say I tried!
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline t0m_dR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2005, 09:33:58 AM »
I signed in! We'll see if the EU is at all interested in the signature of an American (LOL) but at least I can say I tried!

Well, it doesn't hurt having Americans as well, thats for sure!  ;D

Offline sin_vladimirov

  • ANAXIOS!
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 477
  • ICXC NIKA
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2005, 09:48:01 AM »
Of course I signed, I believe every person should...

Lord have mercy.
Lord have mercy.

Offline jmbejdl

  • Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,480
  • Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2005, 10:11:12 AM »
I signed also - I'd be disappointed if any Christian who saw the petition wouldn't, whether Orthodox or not.

James
We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

Offline Timos

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 856
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2005, 12:48:13 PM »
I was thinking a lot about this lately and I actually think that te entire city of Constantinople should be given back to the Greek government or even made its own little orthodox country soley for Orthodox Christians. of course that would neevr happen...I was also thinking that the entire country of Turkey should be given back to Greece because it's original inhabitants were not the turks... and of course that would neevr happen either. What's done is done.

Anyhow, hypotheticaly, if this petition did work and all, do you think that would make some Turkish Mulsims very angry that they would carry out explosions or gun raids on the resotred church? Out of all Islamic governments, Turkey *seems* to be the most westernized. Yet a not-too detailed look in their dealings with Christians in the past century (ies) shows otherwise. After all, Ali Acga, the man who shot Pope JP II was a radical Turkish Muslim.

Christos Mazi mas~Christ be with us,
                                                 Timos

Offline t0m_dR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2005, 01:22:13 PM »
I was thinking a lot about this lately and I actually think that te entire city of Constantinople should be given back to the Greek government or even made its own little orthodox country soley for Orthodox Christians. of course that would neevr happen...I was also thinking that the entire country of Turkey should be given back to Greece because it's original inhabitants were not the turks... and of course that would neevr happen either. What's done is done.

Anyhow, hypotheticaly, if this petition did work and all, do you think that would make some Turkish Mulsims very angry that they would carry out explosions or gun raids on the resotred church? Out of all Islamic governments, Turkey *seems* to be the most westernized. Yet a not-too detailed look in their dealings with Christians in the past century (ies) shows otherwise. After all, Ali Acga, the man who shot Pope JP II was a radical Turkish Muslim.

Christos Mazi mas~Christ be with us,
  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚ Timos

No fear, there, Timos.
IF they wantÂÂ  to be members of the EU, they have to restrain themselves.
And, just thinking how the Turkish economy is, I don't think they have a choice.
Human rights, are non-negotiable, for entering the EU.

Anyway, they can do this, even now. Nothing stopping them.
They have done, far worse things, during the last decades, what is one more?

But now, there is a difference: If they do this, they can kiss economical aid goodbye, and see their people STARVE.
The choice is theirs, we ask only what is fair.

Asking Constantinople to be a "Vatican" is not correct.

If Turkey, treats people with respect
If Turkey gives religious freedom
If Turkey does give civil liberties as any other E.U. Country.
If they REALLY try their best to enter the E.U.

Then

a) It will become a member of the EU, meaning, that ANY European citizen could be Patriarch.

b) I'm sure MANY Turks, will become Orthodox, probably 100.000 at least. Then the E.P. will again have people, and problems will exist no more.

c) Since the borders will be open, monks, or priest from here (Greece) , could go there and help the E.P. The same would probaly go for Bulgaria or Romania, which are soon going to be members of the E.U.

d) The E.P. would then probalby be elevated to a status of a pan-european Patriarchate.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2005, 01:25:26 PM by t0m_dR »

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2005, 02:48:09 PM »
Signed.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Donna Rose

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 937
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2005, 03:09:37 PM »
signed
hmmmm...

Offline Veniamin

  • Fire for Effect!
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,372
  • St. Barbara, patroness of the Field Artillery
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2005, 03:10:32 PM »
Signed
Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great

Offline jlerms

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 826
  • O sweet Jesus, cleanse my soul.
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2005, 10:23:36 PM »

signed

Offline JoeS

  • (aka StMarkEofE)
  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,122
  • Global Warming Enthusiast.
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2005, 10:34:33 PM »
http://www.hagiasophiablog.com/mainpage.html

If you believe in the just case that Hagia Sophia should be restored to its
proper religious role as a church, for which it was built in the first
place, then we ask you to support our petition to the EU Parliament that
Turkey should not be admitted as a member of the European Community until it
restores Hagia Sophia to its original purpose as a church and not a museum.

We need a minimum of 1.000.000 signatures in order to force the European
Union to consider this proposal seriously and debate it immediately as one
of the conditions to allow Turkey to be admitted as a new member of the EU.

http://www.hagiasophiablog.com/mainpage.html

What makes you think that the Turkish government would allow this to happen given the terrorist threat from the Islamic extremists?   I would love to see Hagia Sophia restored to her former greatness but in practical terms it would entail so many problems politically throughout the world.  Keep in mind the world is not in a Christian mode right now.  They are in an aquiecent mode to the Muslims and would not want to do anything that would make the Muslim world angry by this move.

JoeS

Offline Silouan

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 818
  • Bogurodzica dziewica zbaw nas
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2005, 10:52:05 PM »
A very good point about Islamic extremists.  While the typical anti Greek/Christian reasons are at least nominally present in Turkey for not re opening the Halki Theological School and Agia Sofia the major reason the government in Turkey fears to do these things is the Islamic radicals.  If the government allows the Greeks to open a school, then they'd also have to let the muslim radicals as well etc.   Turkey is a fragile balance right now with the more moderate groups barely holding control over the country. 

Offline Sir Sundae

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2005, 12:26:40 AM »
I signed, with the hope that maybe something good will come of it one day.
Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain:

"Let us not expect the spiritual spring if we don't first pass through the spiritual winter during which the spiritual vermin die.  We mustn't expect the divine to blossom within us if the human hasn't first died."

Offline observer

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 546
  • Vivre die Raznitsa!
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2005, 01:59:30 AM »
Not signed.  Reason - Turkey is a sovereign state. Don't like their stance but even more don't like EU dominance. And would Hagia Sophia return to the Church Calendar or be a center point for Neo-Orthodoxy.   Elder Paissios said that Hagia Sophia will be returned after the war.  So TomS you had better wait.
Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)

Offline djrak

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 191
  • "Do not put out the Spirit's fire" - 1 Thess 5:19
    • In Flames of Fire
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2005, 02:36:54 AM »
signed, although there are far more important things they need to do before being admitted anywhere.
LIKE RECOGNIZING THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE?
"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" - John 14:9

Offline t0m_dR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2005, 07:19:24 AM »
A very good point about Islamic extremists.  While the typical anti Greek/Christian reasons are at least nominally present in Turkey for not re opening the Halki Theological School and Agia Sofia the major reason the government in Turkey fears to do these things is the Islamic radicals.  If the government allows the Greeks to open a school, then they'd also have to let the muslim radicals as well etc.   Turkey is a fragile balance right now with the more moderate groups barely holding control over the country. 

That is not true. The "Islamics" are ALREADY IN GOVERMENT.
What they fear is THE GENERALS.

Turkey is not really a democratic state.
The millitary controls the "darker" sides of the Country's Goverment

The Islamic Party , which now is in goverment, has been forced to shutdown and restart with different names, a number of times. The same has happened with a number of parties, mostly leftist.

The millitary, is controled by nationalists which support Kemalism.

For Greeks, Kemalists are a far greater

Todays head of Turkey, is an Islamist, which brought back the "head cover"  for women to use (optionally, of course..) which Kemalism had FORBIDEN in public places (Shools, Public services etc)

Islamists and Kemalists hate each other.

Todays Islamic party, which is in goverment, is afraid that the millitary could take over goverment (which has happened numerous times in the last 20 years or so..) , so they don't force anything. THEY WANT TO OPEN MUSLIM SCHOOLS, but the military is against it.

But this is not enough.

They can have a choice: They either respect human rights, or they STARVE and they get  left out of Europe.
Choice is theirs. Either control the Turkish chaos, or they don't, so they stay out of Europe.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2005, 07:29:52 AM by t0m_dR »

Offline t0m_dR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 174
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2005, 07:20:23 AM »
signed, although there are far more important things they need to do before being admitted anywhere.
LIKE RECOGNIZING THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE?

Thats true!

Offline Antiochian

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 89
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2005, 06:28:41 AM »
Signed, but why doesn't it give you an update on numbers?

Why must we fear to speak for justice?

Do you expect to sit and wait for the tide of Islamic fanaticism to disappear?

Well whilst we keep waiting, the numbers and the presence of Christianity (Orthodoxy in particular) within the Islamic world is rapidly dissipating.

We must stand for what is right, for our rights.



Offline Armando

  • Dead among the living
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 187
  • I gave up dreaming a long time ago...
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2005, 04:54:07 AM »
I believe that there should be a small country that would include the EP and Hagia Sophia...Something like the Vatican. It would be for the good of all Eastern Orthdox Christians.
Ten years have passed, the girl I loved
is now a woman, but I am still a child...
-Sad-ending fairytale, Miltos Paschalidis

Offline Antiochian

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 89
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2005, 08:34:42 AM »
I agree, Armando.

Constantinople should be made the INDEPENDENT seat of Orthodoxy.

If the Orthodox nations united and formed a great link of co-operation, then this would be easily achieved.


Offline Petar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2010, 01:01:20 PM »
signed, although there are far more important things they need to do before being admitted anywhere.
LIKE RECOGNIZING THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE?

Turkish genocide over our Armenians Brother and Sister was terrible, but we Serbian  Christian live with Turkish Islam’s genocide for the century .

Even today in Ex. Yugoslavia on the  territory which is not in  control of Serbian people .

The government of Turk ignore this evil and genocide over the Serbian Christian, they newer  apologize but they support with  media, politic, diplomatic  and army Islamic terrorist in  Bosnia and Herzegovina and Islamic terrorist in new virtual state kosova republic .

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,527
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of the South (OCA)
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2010, 05:22:09 PM »
I agree, Armando.

Constantinople should be made the INDEPENDENT seat of Orthodoxy.

If the Orthodox nations united and formed a great link of co-operation, then this would be easily achieved.



I really am shocked that there may be an Eastern Pope, or that folks are actually proposing this.  ??? :o :'(

Offline Petar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2010, 06:48:22 PM »
I really am shocked that there may be an Eastern Pope, or that folks are actually proposing this.  ??? :o :'(

Where you read that anybody suggested for one more pope ?
The union of Orthodox Christians  is not  calling for one more pope .

Offline Petar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2010, 06:50:47 PM »
Constantinople should be made the INDEPENDENT seat of Orthodoxy.If the Orthodox nations united and formed a great link of cooperation, then this would be easily achieved.

Our enemy will push as too make union .

Offline Isabell

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2010, 05:29:25 AM »
Concerning the number of signatures collected for the petition:

I met the petitioner herself just recently and asked her about how many signatures she collected.

She said that the required million signatures have been collected already since around 2007.

Of course, more than that are beneficial and voluntary to state the point of the petition, which she is currently and carefully preparing, so feel free to sign if you your concience states to you to do so.

The upcoming Holy Mass later this year by the Greek-Americans is completely independent of her petition and is another step forward for the same cause.  I guess there - Thanks to the Lord - concientious citizens of this world, that pave the political statement from many directions. 

This will give many living examples to the Turkish society and along with it its government, so that its political thinking and concience will be brought to a modern, open and progressive level, which the Turkish society itsself wishes to achieve at a quicker pace than any of us expected.








Offline Irish Hermit

  • Kibernetski Kaludjer
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,991
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2010, 07:52:55 AM »

The upcoming Holy Mass later this year by the Greek-Americans


This really upsets me.

Why would any Orthodox be organising a Roman Catholic Mass in Aghia Sophia?

Are we selling out to the Catholics?

Is there any word from the Patriarch what he thinks of this Holy Mass?

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2010, 02:51:55 PM »
Catholic?
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline 88Devin12

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,148
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2010, 05:41:47 PM »
I'm assuming the use of "mass" in the article that was referring to the celebration planned for later this year was simply a mistake or a mistranslation... I think they meant Liturgy rather than Mass...

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2010, 06:36:20 PM »
I'm assuming the use of "mass" in the article that was referring to the celebration planned for later this year was simply a mistake or a mistranslation... I think they meant Liturgy rather than Mass...

First of all: why to be bothered by an event that won't take place?
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline melissa84

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: **Petition to the EU Parliament for restoration of Hagia Sophia**
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2010, 05:28:52 AM »
All things are possible through ou God Jesus christ
I Corinthians 6:9 - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor IDOLATORS nor ADULTERERS nor MALE PROSTITUTES nor HOMOSEXUAL offenders nor THIEVES nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


Keep watch and pray to our HOLY MOTHER OF GOD