Author Topic: Antiochians want to maintain status quo  (Read 4912 times)

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Offline Maria

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Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« on: September 19, 2015, 12:47:16 AM »
Quote
We suggest that the Assembly of Bishops in the United States work as a voluntary Assembly of all the Canonical Bishops in the United States to accomplish the mission of the Assembly as articulated in the founding documents: “The mission of the Bishops’ Assemblies is the proclamation and promotion of the unity of the Orthodox Church, the common pastoral ministry of the Orthodox faithful of the region, as well as their common witness to the world.” We also agree that decisions should be made on the basis of the principle of unanimity of the Orthodox which are represented therein by bishops.  In order to show filial love and respect, we would like all of the officers to be elected by the local assembly and to sit by order of the diptychs. We encourage the bishops in each geographical area to meet regularly and cooperate in ministry.  We also support the continued work with inter-jurisdictional agencies and Orthodox theological groups. In this day of easy travel and communication, bishops can effectively serve their parishes in America without restructuring present geographical boundaries. Our churches are not yet homogeneous and there are jurisdictional needs within our parishes.
http://antiochian.org/statement-antiochian-orthodox-christian-archdiocese-north-america-assembly-canonical-orthodox-bishop

This must be a thorn in the side of the Greeks.

With all the immigrants coming into the USA, will the Antiochian parishes ever become homogeneous? That could take another 20 years.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 01:06:09 AM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Maria

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2015, 01:03:31 AM »
Forgive me, Mor, for putting this in the wrong forum.

I am suffering from a stomach flu.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline qawe

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2015, 01:08:34 AM »
With all the immigrants coming into the USA, will the Antiochian parishes ever become homogeneous? That could take another 20 years.

If they ever become homogenous, they'll just come up with another excuse.

Autocephaly's never been easy.  You've got to have complete unanimity from all Americans in order to even stand a chance.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 01:09:12 AM by qawe »
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Offline wgw

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2015, 01:45:56 AM »
Forgive me, Mor, for putting this in the wrong forum.

I am suffering from a stomach flu.

You too, eh?  It has to be something in the Southern California air.  Before I came down with it I smelled this bizarre odor everywhere, that smelled a bit like disinfectant; it seemed to cling especially to bread and fabrics, and disappeared as strikingly as it appeared.
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline hecma925

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2015, 02:47:22 AM »
Soooooooooo.....back to SCOBA?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline Maria

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2015, 03:54:53 AM »
Soooooooooo.....back to SCOBA?

Well, the OCL pushed this agenda onto the Bishops.

If SCOBA worked so well, why did they have to reinvent the wheel?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2015, 03:58:30 AM »
Soooooooooo.....back to SCOBA?

Well, the OCL pushed this agenda onto the Bishops.

If SCOBA worked so well, why did they have to reinvent the wheel?

You know, "unity".  And the forever-enduring and multi-generational "diaspora".
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2015, 09:20:12 AM »
Soooooooooo.....back to SCOBA?

My sources tell me that the next one is going to be called MOBIUS -- Meandering Orthodox Bishops in (the) United States

Offline Luke

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2015, 10:32:02 AM »
Forgive me, Mor, for putting this in the wrong forum.

I am suffering from a stomach flu.

You too, eh?  It has to be something in the Southern California air. 
LORD have mercy on WGW and Maria!

Offline hecma925

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2015, 12:25:26 PM »
Soooooooooo.....back to SCOBA?

My sources tell me that the next one is going to be called MOBIUS -- Meandering Orthodox Bishops in (the) United States

That would make far more sense and be more memorable.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2015, 12:52:05 PM »
Forgive me, Mor, for putting this in the wrong forum.

No worries, maybe it'll make more sense here than where I put it.

Quote
I am suffering from a stomach flu.

Get well soon!
Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Offline Maria

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2015, 01:19:50 PM »
Soooooooooo.....back to SCOBA?

My sources tell me that the next one is going to be called MOBIUS MOBIE -- Meandering Orthodox Bishops in (the) United States Exile

That would make far more sense and be more memorable.

FIFY

And we would call it the WHALE.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 01:20:23 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2015, 01:41:33 PM »
Quote
We suggest that the Assembly of Bishops in the United States work as a voluntary Assembly of all the Canonical Bishops in the United States to accomplish the mission of the Assembly as articulated in the founding documents: “The mission of the Bishops’ Assemblies is the proclamation and promotion of the unity of the Orthodox Church, the common pastoral ministry of the Orthodox faithful of the region, as well as their common witness to the world.” We also agree that decisions should be made on the basis of the principle of unanimity of the Orthodox which are represented therein by bishops.  In order to show filial love and respect, we would like all of the officers to be elected by the local assembly and to sit by order of the diptychs. We encourage the bishops in each geographical area to meet regularly and cooperate in ministry.  We also support the continued work with inter-jurisdictional agencies and Orthodox theological groups. In this day of easy travel and communication, bishops can effectively serve their parishes in America without restructuring present geographical boundaries. Our churches are not yet homogeneous and there are jurisdictional needs within our parishes.
http://antiochian.org/statement-antiochian-orthodox-christian-archdiocese-north-america-assembly-canonical-orthodox-bishop

This must be a thorn in the side of the Greeks.

With all the immigrants coming into the USA, will the Antiochian parishes ever become homogeneous? That could take another 20 years.


What does a homeogeneous parish mean?  You make it sound like immigrants are a danger.  There are no homogeneous societies in our present globalized world.  Stop living in the mythical past.  Was the USA ever "homogeneous? "  Canada never was.


Offline Maria

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2015, 01:53:25 PM »
Quote
We suggest that the Assembly of Bishops in the United States work as a voluntary Assembly of all the Canonical Bishops in the United States to accomplish the mission of the Assembly as articulated in the founding documents: “The mission of the Bishops’ Assemblies is the proclamation and promotion of the unity of the Orthodox Church, the common pastoral ministry of the Orthodox faithful of the region, as well as their common witness to the world.” We also agree that decisions should be made on the basis of the principle of unanimity of the Orthodox which are represented therein by bishops.  In order to show filial love and respect, we would like all of the officers to be elected by the local assembly and to sit by order of the diptychs. We encourage the bishops in each geographical area to meet regularly and cooperate in ministry.  We also support the continued work with inter-jurisdictional agencies and Orthodox theological groups. In this day of easy travel and communication, bishops can effectively serve their parishes in America without restructuring present geographical boundaries. Our churches are not yet homogeneous and there are jurisdictional needs within our parishes.
http://antiochian.org/statement-antiochian-orthodox-christian-archdiocese-north-america-assembly-canonical-orthodox-bishop

This must be a thorn in the side of the Greeks.

With all the immigrants coming into the USA, will the Antiochian parishes ever become homogeneous? That could take another 20 years.


You make it sound like immigrants are a danger.  There are no homogeneous societies in our present globalized world.  Stop living in the mythical past.  Was the USA ever "homogeneous? "  Canada never was.

Actually immigrants help the Antiochian Church retain their traditions. It is converts who can be the problem.

Yes, if we sent all the whites back to Europe, perhaps that would help the USA.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 02:18:04 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2015, 04:15:49 PM »
Quote
We suggest that the Assembly of Bishops in the United States work as a voluntary Assembly of all the Canonical Bishops in the United States to accomplish the mission of the Assembly as articulated in the founding documents: “The mission of the Bishops’ Assemblies is the proclamation and promotion of the unity of the Orthodox Church, the common pastoral ministry of the Orthodox faithful of the region, as well as their common witness to the world.” We also agree that decisions should be made on the basis of the principle of unanimity of the Orthodox which are represented therein by bishops.  In order to show filial love and respect, we would like all of the officers to be elected by the local assembly and to sit by order of the diptychs. We encourage the bishops in each geographical area to meet regularly and cooperate in ministry.  We also support the continued work with inter-jurisdictional agencies and Orthodox theological groups. In this day of easy travel and communication, bishops can effectively serve their parishes in America without restructuring present geographical boundaries. Our churches are not yet homogeneous and there are jurisdictional needs within our parishes.
http://antiochian.org/statement-antiochian-orthodox-christian-archdiocese-north-america-assembly-canonical-orthodox-bishop

This must be a thorn in the side of the Greeks.

With all the immigrants coming into the USA, will the Antiochian parishes ever become homogeneous? That could take another 20 years.


You make it sound like immigrants are a danger.  There are no homogeneous societies in our present globalized world.  Stop living in the mythical past.  Was the USA ever "homogeneous? "  Canada never was.

Actually immigrants help the Antiochian Church retain their traditions. It is converts who can be the problem.

Yes, if we sent all the whites back to Europe, perhaps that would help the USA.


Some people are here to stay (the older immigrations and their offspring over multiple generations)  and with the new migrants, some will stay and some will go to wherever the next job is and then retire wherever they choose.  It is a different world.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2015, 06:50:37 PM »
Orthodox unity in America now in extreme jeopardy
I once lost on Jeopardy.

In all seriousness though, I didn't foresee much happening anyway. ROCOR and the Bulgarians more or less said the same thing, maybe with a little more subtlety. Administrative unity will happen when it's supposed to. Perhaps now isn't it.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2015, 07:26:57 PM »
Orthodox unity in America now in extreme jeopardy

Quote
Third, there seems to be some reluctance to be under the "subjugation or domination of any." The Internet is rife with people decrying the perceived hegemony of the Greek Archdiocese in this Assembly of Bishops unification process. This does not now seem to be isolated to the vocal cyber-laity. This is apparently a very real impediment.

The OCL did not see this backlash coming?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2015, 08:45:07 PM »
Quote
We suggest that the Assembly of Bishops in the United States work as a voluntary Assembly of all the Canonical Bishops in the United States to accomplish the mission of the Assembly as articulated in the founding documents: “The mission of the Bishops’ Assemblies is the proclamation and promotion of the unity of the Orthodox Church, the common pastoral ministry of the Orthodox faithful of the region, as well as their common witness to the world.” We also agree that decisions should be made on the basis of the principle of unanimity of the Orthodox which are represented therein by bishops.  In order to show filial love and respect, we would like all of the officers to be elected by the local assembly and to sit by order of the diptychs. We encourage the bishops in each geographical area to meet regularly and cooperate in ministry.  We also support the continued work with inter-jurisdictional agencies and Orthodox theological groups. In this day of easy travel and communication, bishops can effectively serve their parishes in America without restructuring present geographical boundaries. Our churches are not yet homogeneous and there are jurisdictional needs within our parishes.
http://antiochian.org/statement-antiochian-orthodox-christian-archdiocese-north-america-assembly-canonical-orthodox-bishop

This must be a thorn in the side of the Greeks.

With all the immigrants coming into the USA, will the Antiochian parishes ever become homogeneous? That could take another 20 years.


What does a homeogeneous parish mean?  You make it sound like immigrants are a danger.  There are no homogeneous societies in our present globalized world.  Stop living in the mythical past.  Was the USA ever "homogeneous? "  Canada never was.

Both Koreas and Japan are some of the most homogenous societies on earth.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2015, 09:02:49 AM »
Orthodox unity in America now in extreme jeopardy

So you have posted a link to a blog written by a member of the Byzantine Catholic Church who attends a Byzantine Catholic parish in Texas.  He and his family converted to the  Byzantine Catholic Church NOT to the Orthodox Church.
Do I really care what he thinks about Orthodox administrative unity in North America: no not really.

 But he is typical of Anglo-Americans who either convert to the Byzantine Catholic Church (rather than the Ukrainian Catholic Church or the Melkite or Marionite Catholic Church) who would like to see some future sort of American Eastern Rite Church like the OCA. 
See his blog about attending an "Eastern-Rite Picnic" in Texas:  http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-06-18T12:11:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=90&by-date=false
His home parish is: "St. Basil the Great Byzantine Catholic Church:  An Eastern Christian presence in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex."  http://www.stbasilsinirving.org/
Also:
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-06-18T12:11:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=90&by-date=false
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/2007/05/byzawhat.html

He does mention studying Greek in a local Orthodox Church as an Eastern Catholic:
Quote
It seems the class will be from a lot of the ROCOR/OCA/GOA parishes around Tarrant County. I'm promising myself to study assiduously to make a good showing for the Byzantine Catholics ("represent" as I believe the current juvenile vernacular calls it).
Posted by Josephus Flavius 0 comments https://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3245100532609640231
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-07-09T09:53:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=75&by-date=false

 

When he started his blog he clearly stated what his purpose was:

Quote
In whatever enterprise, lest it be so perverse as to prevent discourse, people want to discuss their interests with others. For my part I'd love to have discussions with people about the faith - that particular faith of the Eastern Christian.

The problem is that places like Orthodox Circle exclude me, byzcath.org forums depress me, and Catholic Answers enrages me. If I email Orthodox Circle for access as the Eastern equivalent of an Anglo-Catholic, the Orthodox (understandably I think) won't give me as a Ruthenian access no matter how much I wish to discuss Eastern thought with them. Five minutes of reading byzcath.org forums will make even the most stalwart believer shake his head in dismay. Sooo much whining and bickering... I am reminded of a comment made recently that whenever there is no outward pressure on a group it will fight amongst itself. Catholic Answers is a nightmare all its own.

There is an Eastern section on Catholic Answers. Is it a place where people interested in the Eastern lung can ask questions about the faith or seek guidance? I wish it were so. Instead it's about 80% of either Orthodox parachuting in to snipe or Latin Catholics trying to pigeon-hole Eastern Catholics into quirky ethnics. Who really discusses without an agenda whether Peter went to Rome or just Antioch, the nature of papal infallibility, whether Peter is really buried in Rome, etc. etc.

I hope for a forum that requires a test and acquiescence to rules of conduct before membership. Should you choose to be rude or to speak on something already agreed to in a joint statement of faith solely to prove your primacy-via-affiliation you would be thrown out without ceremony.
Posted by Josephus Flavius 1 comments https://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3544908988158171719 https://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3544908988158171719&from=pencil
 

He also talks about briefly attending the St. Cyril & Methodius Byzantine Catholic Seminary: http://byztex.blogspot.ca/2014/11/married-clergy-for-eastern-catholics-in.html


SO I really don't see why this Catholic blogger's opinion has any significance for us Orthodox.  He may think that he is Orthodox "in union with Rome" but I certianly don't and neither does the Orthodox Church. 

Offline homedad76

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2015, 12:50:52 PM »
The virtual collapse of the Committee on Canonical Regional Planning is either good news or bad news depending on where you start. If you believe the Orthodox Church's purpose in the West is merely to serve immigrants and their descendants, to be a place that feels like 'home' where they can be with those who look like them and wax poetic about the good old days back in the old country....  well then this is all welcome news.  Or if you believe the EP should have jurisdiction over the the whole diaspora and believe the Great and Holy Council will agree with that (or at least hope beyond hope that the hierachs will throw their hands up in frustration and tell HAH to just deal with it) then the tangled mess is right up your alley.  But if you believe the Orthodox Church is meant to evangelize the world, to bring the Truth of Orthodoxy to every corner of the globe. And if you believe the best way to do this is to merge in a special way the universal teachings and practices of Orthodoxy into the culture not so that Orthodoxy is watered down but so that the Truth of Orthodoxy can be embraced and truly become part of the daily lives of those who embrace it.  And finally if you can separate cultural traditions from Orthodox Tradition and welcome people in to your church with last  names like Smith and Adler not just Kozlov and Stavros then this is truly bad news.
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Offline Samn!

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2015, 12:56:52 PM »

SO I really don't see why this Catholic blogger's opinion has any significance for us Orthodox.  He may think that he is Orthodox "in union with Rome" but I certianly don't and neither does the Orthodox Church.

The author of that blog is currently a priest of the Orthodox Church, under the Ecumenical Patriarchate.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 12:58:47 PM by Samn! »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2015, 01:03:52 PM »
Orthodox unity in America now in extreme jeopardy

So you have posted a link to a blog written by a member of the Byzantine Catholic Church who attends a Byzantine Catholic parish in Texas.  He and his family converted to the  Byzantine Catholic Church NOT to the Orthodox Church.
Do I really care what he thinks about Orthodox administrative unity in North America: no not really.

 But he is typical of Anglo-Americans who either convert to the Byzantine Catholic Church (rather than the Ukrainian Catholic Church or the Melkite or Marionite Catholic Church) who would like to see some future sort of American Eastern Rite Church like the OCA. 
See his blog about attending an "Eastern-Rite Picnic" in Texas:  http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-06-18T12:11:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=90&by-date=false
His home parish is: "St. Basil the Great Byzantine Catholic Church:  An Eastern Christian presence in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex."  http://www.stbasilsinirving.org/
Also:
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-06-18T12:11:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=90&by-date=false
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/2007/05/byzawhat.html

He does mention studying Greek in a local Orthodox Church as an Eastern Catholic:
Quote
It seems the class will be from a lot of the ROCOR/OCA/GOA parishes around Tarrant County. I'm promising myself to study assiduously to make a good showing for the Byzantine Catholics ("represent" as I believe the current juvenile vernacular calls it).
Posted by Josephus Flavius 0 comments https://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3245100532609640231
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-07-09T09:53:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=75&by-date=false

 

When he started his blog he clearly stated what his purpose was:

Quote
In whatever enterprise, lest it be so perverse as to prevent discourse, people want to discuss their interests with others. For my part I'd love to have discussions with people about the faith - that particular faith of the Eastern Christian.

The problem is that places like Orthodox Circle exclude me, byzcath.org forums depress me, and Catholic Answers enrages me. If I email Orthodox Circle for access as the Eastern equivalent of an Anglo-Catholic, the Orthodox (understandably I think) won't give me as a Ruthenian access no matter how much I wish to discuss Eastern thought with them. Five minutes of reading byzcath.org forums will make even the most stalwart believer shake his head in dismay. Sooo much whining and bickering... I am reminded of a comment made recently that whenever there is no outward pressure on a group it will fight amongst itself. Catholic Answers is a nightmare all its own.

There is an Eastern section on Catholic Answers. Is it a place where people interested in the Eastern lung can ask questions about the faith or seek guidance? I wish it were so. Instead it's about 80% of either Orthodox parachuting in to snipe or Latin Catholics trying to pigeon-hole Eastern Catholics into quirky ethnics. Who really discusses without an agenda whether Peter went to Rome or just Antioch, the nature of papal infallibility, whether Peter is really buried in Rome, etc. etc.

I hope for a forum that requires a test and acquiescence to rules of conduct before membership. Should you choose to be rude or to speak on something already agreed to in a joint statement of faith solely to prove your primacy-via-affiliation you would be thrown out without ceremony.
Posted by Josephus Flavius 1 comments https://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3544908988158171719 https://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3544908988158171719&from=pencil
 

He also talks about briefly attending the St. Cyril & Methodius Byzantine Catholic Seminary: http://byztex.blogspot.ca/2014/11/married-clergy-for-eastern-catholics-in.html


SO I really don't see why this Catholic blogger's opinion has any significance for us Orthodox.  He may think that he is Orthodox "in union with Rome" but I certianly don't and neither does the Orthodox Church.

You went to an awful lot of trouble to explain why his opinion doesn't count because he's not Orthodox (a claim which I've heard before, as also the claim that he is a member of ACROD), but you didn't really address what he reported, which is now well-known, published on the Antiochian Archdiocese website, and being discussed by Orthodox people in a dozen or so online venues not including this forum.  Why the insecurity? 
Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Offline liftsifter

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2015, 08:08:56 PM »
Not shocked by this in the slightest. His Eminence made this same point very clear in his enthronement speech.
"And the King will say to them, ‘Verily I say to you, inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these my bretheren, you have done it to Me.’" Matthew 25

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2015, 08:18:40 PM »
Orthodox unity in America now in extreme jeopardy

So you have posted a link to a blog written by a member of the Byzantine Catholic Church who attends a Byzantine Catholic parish in Texas.  He and his family converted to the  Byzantine Catholic Church NOT to the Orthodox Church.
Do I really care what he thinks about Orthodox administrative unity in North America: no not really.

 But he is typical of Anglo-Americans who either convert to the Byzantine Catholic Church (rather than the Ukrainian Catholic Church or the Melkite or Marionite Catholic Church) who would like to see some future sort of American Eastern Rite Church like the OCA. 
See his blog about attending an "Eastern-Rite Picnic" in Texas:  http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-06-18T12:11:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=90&by-date=false
His home parish is: "St. Basil the Great Byzantine Catholic Church:  An Eastern Christian presence in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex."  http://www.stbasilsinirving.org/
Also:
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-06-18T12:11:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=90&by-date=false
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/2007/05/byzawhat.html

He does mention studying Greek in a local Orthodox Church as an Eastern Catholic:
Quote
It seems the class will be from a lot of the ROCOR/OCA/GOA parishes around Tarrant County. I'm promising myself to study assiduously to make a good showing for the Byzantine Catholics ("represent" as I believe the current juvenile vernacular calls it).
Posted by Josephus Flavius 0 comments https://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3245100532609640231
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-07-09T09:53:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=75&by-date=false

 

When he started his blog he clearly stated what his purpose was:

Quote
In whatever enterprise, lest it be so perverse as to prevent discourse, people want to discuss their interests with others. For my part I'd love to have discussions with people about the faith - that particular faith of the Eastern Christian.

The problem is that places like Orthodox Circle exclude me, byzcath.org forums depress me, and Catholic Answers enrages me. If I email Orthodox Circle for access as the Eastern equivalent of an Anglo-Catholic, the Orthodox (understandably I think) won't give me as a Ruthenian access no matter how much I wish to discuss Eastern thought with them. Five minutes of reading byzcath.org forums will make even the most stalwart believer shake his head in dismay. Sooo much whining and bickering... I am reminded of a comment made recently that whenever there is no outward pressure on a group it will fight amongst itself. Catholic Answers is a nightmare all its own.

There is an Eastern section on Catholic Answers. Is it a place where people interested in the Eastern lung can ask questions about the faith or seek guidance? I wish it were so. Instead it's about 80% of either Orthodox parachuting in to snipe or Latin Catholics trying to pigeon-hole Eastern Catholics into quirky ethnics. Who really discusses without an agenda whether Peter went to Rome or just Antioch, the nature of papal infallibility, whether Peter is really buried in Rome, etc. etc.

I hope for a forum that requires a test and acquiescence to rules of conduct before membership. Should you choose to be rude or to speak on something already agreed to in a joint statement of faith solely to prove your primacy-via-affiliation you would be thrown out without ceremony.
Posted by Josephus Flavius 1 comments https://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3544908988158171719 https://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3544908988158171719&from=pencil
 

He also talks about briefly attending the St. Cyril & Methodius Byzantine Catholic Seminary: http://byztex.blogspot.ca/2014/11/married-clergy-for-eastern-catholics-in.html


SO I really don't see why this Catholic blogger's opinion has any significance for us Orthodox.  He may think that he is Orthodox "in union with Rome" but I certianly don't and neither does the Orthodox Church.

You went to an awful lot of trouble to explain why his opinion doesn't count because he's not Orthodox (a claim which I've heard before, as also the claim that he is a member of ACROD), but you didn't really address what he reported, which is now well-known, published on the Antiochian Archdiocese website, and being discussed by Orthodox people in a dozen or so online venues not including this forum.  Why the insecurity?

im even more confused is he Orthodox or Eastern Catholic? some say Orthodox, some say Eastern Catholic. To be fair many byztex postings on his blog is pretty balanced and fair.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2015, 08:19:43 PM »
Quote
This doesn't mean things won't improve in the lives of Orthodox in America. If everyone is on the same page about in vitro, divorces, baptisms, crownings, clergy incardinations, excommunications, etc. we'll at least look like a single Church even if we continue on as a loose coalition.
Can anyone explain this bizarre statement? What on earth is he talking about?
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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2015, 08:20:09 PM »
Not shocked by this in the slightest. His Eminence made this same point very clear in his enthronement speech.
Likewise. I was there to hear it and this is just reinforcement of what was said there.
You sound like a professional who knows what he's talking about.  That's because you are.

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Offline liftsifter

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2015, 08:45:07 PM »
Interesting to note: lack of any signatures on this document, which either says it's a statement from powers higher than Metropolitan Joseph, or the Bishops in America didn't want their signatures on this document.
"And the King will say to them, ‘Verily I say to you, inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these my bretheren, you have done it to Me.’" Matthew 25

Offline homedad76

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2015, 09:21:58 PM »
Interesting to note: lack of any signatures on this document, which either says it's a statement from powers higher than Metropolitan Joseph, or the Bishops in America didn't want their signatures on this document.

Would this kind of document normally have a signature?  Seems like perhaps they wanted it to represent a feeling of the whole rather then any one or group of people.  But you may also have a point.  There are definitely Antiochian bishops who would not support this stand but they are unlikely to say so publically.
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Offline liftsifter

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2015, 09:41:28 PM »
There are definitely Antiochian bishops who would not support this stand but they are unlikely to say so publically.

Exactly.
"And the King will say to them, ‘Verily I say to you, inasmuch as you have done it to the least of these my bretheren, you have done it to Me.’" Matthew 25

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2015, 09:51:44 PM »
There are definitely Antiochian bishops who would not support this stand but they are unlikely to say so publically.

Exactly.

Deja vu??? Didn't this happen once before?
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2015, 10:31:02 PM »
Orthodox unity in America now in extreme jeopardy

So you have posted a link to a blog written by a member of the Byzantine Catholic Church who attends a Byzantine Catholic parish in Texas.  He and his family converted to the  Byzantine Catholic Church NOT to the Orthodox Church.
Do I really care what he thinks about Orthodox administrative unity in North America: no not really.

 But he is typical of Anglo-Americans who either convert to the Byzantine Catholic Church (rather than the Ukrainian Catholic Church or the Melkite or Marionite Catholic Church) who would like to see some future sort of American Eastern Rite Church like the OCA. 
See his blog about attending an "Eastern-Rite Picnic" in Texas:  http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-06-18T12:11:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=90&by-date=false
His home parish is: "St. Basil the Great Byzantine Catholic Church:  An Eastern Christian presence in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex."  http://www.stbasilsinirving.org/
Also:
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-06-18T12:11:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=90&by-date=false
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/2007/05/byzawhat.html

He does mention studying Greek in a local Orthodox Church as an Eastern Catholic:
Quote
It seems the class will be from a lot of the ROCOR/OCA/GOA parishes around Tarrant County. I'm promising myself to study assiduously to make a good showing for the Byzantine Catholics ("represent" as I believe the current juvenile vernacular calls it).
Posted by Josephus Flavius 0 comments https://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3245100532609640231
http://byztex.blogspot.ca/search?updated-max=2007-07-09T09:53:00-05:00&max-results=15&start=75&by-date=false

 

When he started his blog he clearly stated what his purpose was:

Quote
In whatever enterprise, lest it be so perverse as to prevent discourse, people want to discuss their interests with others. For my part I'd love to have discussions with people about the faith - that particular faith of the Eastern Christian.

The problem is that places like Orthodox Circle exclude me, byzcath.org forums depress me, and Catholic Answers enrages me. If I email Orthodox Circle for access as the Eastern equivalent of an Anglo-Catholic, the Orthodox (understandably I think) won't give me as a Ruthenian access no matter how much I wish to discuss Eastern thought with them. Five minutes of reading byzcath.org forums will make even the most stalwart believer shake his head in dismay. Sooo much whining and bickering... I am reminded of a comment made recently that whenever there is no outward pressure on a group it will fight amongst itself. Catholic Answers is a nightmare all its own.

There is an Eastern section on Catholic Answers. Is it a place where people interested in the Eastern lung can ask questions about the faith or seek guidance? I wish it were so. Instead it's about 80% of either Orthodox parachuting in to snipe or Latin Catholics trying to pigeon-hole Eastern Catholics into quirky ethnics. Who really discusses without an agenda whether Peter went to Rome or just Antioch, the nature of papal infallibility, whether Peter is really buried in Rome, etc. etc.

I hope for a forum that requires a test and acquiescence to rules of conduct before membership. Should you choose to be rude or to speak on something already agreed to in a joint statement of faith solely to prove your primacy-via-affiliation you would be thrown out without ceremony.
Posted by Josephus Flavius 1 comments https://www.blogger.com/email-post.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3544908988158171719 https://www.blogger.com/post-edit.g?blogID=73042886598650075&postID=3544908988158171719&from=pencil
 

He also talks about briefly attending the St. Cyril & Methodius Byzantine Catholic Seminary: http://byztex.blogspot.ca/2014/11/married-clergy-for-eastern-catholics-in.html


SO I really don't see why this Catholic blogger's opinion has any significance for us Orthodox.  He may think that he is Orthodox "in union with Rome" but I certianly don't and neither does the Orthodox Church.

You went to an awful lot of trouble to explain why his opinion doesn't count because he's not Orthodox (a claim which I've heard before, as also the claim that he is a member of ACROD), but you didn't really address what he reported, which is now well-known, published on the Antiochian Archdiocese website, and being discussed by Orthodox people in a dozen or so online venues not including this forum.  Why the insecurity?
He was Byzantine Catholic, joined ACROD, and is now a priest.
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Offline Orest

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2015, 10:12:55 AM »
Quote
He was Byzantine Catholic, joined ACROD, and is now a priest.
http://www.hmoc.us/abouthm.htm

 

And which church will he convert to next month?  The Coptic Church? 

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2015, 10:38:23 AM »
Quote
He was Byzantine Catholic, joined ACROD, and is now a priest.
http://www.hmoc.us/abouthm.htm

 

And which church will he convert to next month?  The Coptic Church?

That's a rather snarky statement. Father Joseph fully matriculated,  graduated seminary with my son and was ordained by Bishop Gregory in 2014 and is a priest in good standing who is serving a parish in his diocese.

If you're going to criticise clergy who came to Orthodoxy through either the Roman or Eastern Catholic faith, you're taking on a large segment of North American clergy and if take it back a generation or two, even more of us. Both the OCA and ACROD trace their very existence to such pious men and their spouses. 

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2015, 10:38:29 AM »
Quote
He was Byzantine Catholic, joined ACROD, and is now a priest.
http://www.hmoc.us/abouthm.htm

 

And which church will he convert to next month?  The Coptic Church?

ACROD wouldn't exist if it weren't for Byzantine Catholics converting to Orthodoxy.
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Offline Orest

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2015, 10:44:30 AM »
Quote
He was Byzantine Catholic, joined ACROD, and is now a priest.
http://www.hmoc.us/abouthm.htm

 

And which church will he convert to next month?  The Coptic Church?

ACROD wouldn't exist if it weren't for Byzantine Catholics converting to Orthodoxy.
Yeah but how many times can a person "convert" & still be taken seriously?  I understand once.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2015, 10:51:42 AM »
Quote
He was Byzantine Catholic, joined ACROD, and is now a priest.
http://www.hmoc.us/abouthm.htm

 

And which church will he convert to next month?  The Coptic Church?

What a ridiculous comment. If you actually set foot in a Byzantine Catholic parish, and then an ACROD one, they are many ways almost indistinguishable. It was hardly a tremendous leap in cultural terms.

Also, what does this have to do with what Fr. Joseph actually said? Folks seem bent on attacking his person/ sincerity while ignoring the reality of what he's simply sharing.

Honestly I think Orthodox administrative unity might just not happen. For many of us it's desirable, for others it's not. Globalization has brought people together in one sense, and driven them apart in others. A sense of rootedness in one's current geography has been steadily undermined. I can live next door to someone and still be miles apart from him culturally. This is especially the case in cosmopolitan places like the Eastern US, and a canonical system that arose in an era where few people traveled far beyond their village might just not stick in such a situation.
Quote
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Offline wynd

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2015, 12:24:06 PM »
a canonical system that arose in an era where few people traveled far beyond their village might just not stick in such a situation.

So what would you suggest as a replacement?

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2015, 12:46:50 PM »
a canonical system that arose in an era where few people traveled far beyond their village might just not stick in such a situation.

So what would you suggest as a replacement?

Enjoy the chaos.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2015, 01:15:27 PM »
a canonical system that arose in an era where few people traveled far beyond their village might just not stick in such a situation.

So what would you suggest as a replacement?

Enjoy the chaos.

May be this is more natural, at least in the sense of letting people decide to vote with their feet and wallets. We all have basically the same church and it seems to me that there are two marketing approaches: one that stresses its ancient lineage and ethnic affiliation and the "come one, come all" approach. I believe that the advantage goes to the jurisdiction that does not emphasize outreach, but making disciples; that does not glory in its venerable past, but glorifies the Lord; that does not emphasize its ethic roots, but totally believes in "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28).

Offline liftsifter

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2015, 01:21:58 PM »
The only reason the author should be questioned is that, yes, he is under the jurisdiction of the Church of Constantinople, which makes him a bit more anxious for unity. It should also be noted that the ACROD joined with the EP in an effort to promote unity, which doesn't seem to have worked. In fact, it should be a great example of why unity under the EP is awful for everyone who's not Greek: you get a Greek bishop who cares more about ethnicity than the Church.

I think the point must be made that Antioch is not advocating for maintaining the status quo, rather, the Patriarchate sees the very real threat lurking if it continues to push for unity. The EP has made his intentions clear, "America is under Constantinople, no discussion." In a scenario where Antioch loses N. America, it has increasingly dramatic repercussions for the Archdiocese back home who rely heavily on money sent from the United States and Canada to support the parishes until the region stabilizes.

I have an idea: since the Ecumenical Patriarchate is eager for Orthodox unity in America, why not unify under Antioch? Antioch has said they will not unify unless Antioch is the receiving party of the additional jurisdictions for obvious reasons. The relationship between Antioch and the OCA is strong and I'm sure Moscow wouldn't mind giving it's American parishes to Antioch in exchange for a bit of the revenue and to poke the EP a bit more. Then it will be clear who really believes in unity in America.

Metropolitan Joseph is no saint to be quoting, but he said something beautiful at his enthronement, if you'll allow me, "The Antiochians of America are neither cradle nor convert, because the Church does not differentiate between brother and sister." Let us remember this important point which His Eminence made.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 01:23:56 PM by liftsifter »
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2015, 01:39:07 PM »
While I may not agree with the decision and stance of my hierarchs, I do say that I'm glad that the Antiochian hierarchs (though I know not all of them share the Metropolitan's opinion) are actually being open and honest about their position.

Ever since the Assembly was formed, there have been Bishops that have been honestly and honorably working towards American unity. However, it's also been clear that there are many, many Bishops who are part of the Assembly, who seem to hold their own agendas and have just kept themselves quiet, keeping up appearances.

The OCA hierarchs, especially after ejecting Metropolitan Jonah (I don't advocate for Met. Jonah by the way, but he seemed more open to questioning autocephaly), seem to be stubbornly stuck in the "autocephaly" stance. Despite the fact that the very church which granted them autocephaly now has Patriarchal Parishes in the states, plus many more parishes belonging to ROCOR, which is under Moscow's oversight and jurisdiction. Not even to mention the large amount of problems extant in the OCA hierarchy and administration that has unfortunately plagued them for three decades.

The Greeks form the largest group by far, but it really seems to me that they are quietly in the position of "autonomy" or under the direction of the Ecumenical Patriarch (who honestly has NO claim here). Additionally, while they are the largest, the Greeks also have the huge problem existent in their membership of the lack of real, direct and strict pastoral guidance. The Greek leadership, while they may be conservative, have not been able to reign in their membership, which has shown to be amongst the most liberal and waffling of American Orthodoxy. The actions of previous Ecumenical Patriarchs (such as Ecumenical Patriarch Athenagoras) have resulted in an immensely confused Greek lay community, many of whom treat Orthodoxy as far closer to Catholicism (of a Greek flavor) or Protestantism than they should, by staying members of the Orthodox Church, but picking and choosing theology and moral stances of the church that suit them.

Every single jurisdiction (including the Antiochians) have immense problems they need to resolve. We need a unified American front, but at the same time, unity is NOT going to solve any of these problems, and unfortunately might even complicate matters.

All I have to say, is while churches like the OCA & Greeks have their own, quiet agendas, and others such as the Serbians, ROCOR etc... are quietly under the camp of staying tied to their ethnic roots, at least the Antiochians are being open and honest about their position, and not just playing nice to keep up appearances. Obviously I disagree with the stance of many of our hierarchs, but I'm at least glad they are actually speaking up rather than just playing along quietly and just keeping their agenda/stance hidden or unsaid.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 01:45:27 PM by 88Devin12 »

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2015, 02:01:52 PM »
Although I agree with the EP in many things, sometimes I think HH Patriarch Bartholomew is guided by a sense of urgency to see certain things still in his lifetime that, honestly, are not feasible even in this century.

Perfect institutional unity in the US would be a great thing for Orthodoxy, but a local assembly of bishops would have to operate for some generations until it would have the material and psychological-spiritual conditions of being a local unified synod.

The fact is that the American "branches" of the original jurisdictions give a significant political-economical support to their respective mother-churches.

I'm not sure the problem is even ethnophyletism really, as if people were moved by an ideological agenda, but the material fact that without their feet in the relatively wealthier North-American branches, the mother churches would be far more vulnerable to their local politics. They would loose the advantage of having an outside advanced post.

The ideal solution would be for the 2016 Council to concede to the historical very limited but actual and active authority of the First-Among-Equals, and have the diasporas not under the Ecumenical Patriarchate directly, but under a standing world synod composed of representatives sent to Constantinople by each church and presided by the Ecumenical Patriarch. Each representative in the World Synod would be the liasson between their "diaspora" and their Mother Church. That would preserve the links of the diasporas with their mother churches that is the main objection right now. They would not be responding to the Ecumenical Patriarch, but to an authorized representative of their own churches.

It would strengthen all Orthodox Churches and it would still be good for the Ecumenical Patriarchate with the plus that if Turkey decided to mess with the Church there, it would be messing not only with the Ecumenical Patriarchate, but with all the churches represented there, plus their lobbies in North-America and other places of the diaspora.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 02:04:25 PM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline asdamick

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2015, 02:20:19 PM »
You went to an awful lot of trouble to explain why his opinion doesn't count because he's not Orthodox (a claim which I've heard before, as also the claim that he is a member of ACROD), but you didn't really address what he reported, which is now well-known, published on the Antiochian Archdiocese website, and being discussed by Orthodox people in a dozen or so online venues not including this forum.  Why the insecurity?

I can confirm that the author of "Byzantine, Texas" is a priest of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese (ACROD), a jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.  He is a personal friend of mine.

And, FWIW, a significant number of the converts to Orthodoxy I know had some kind of way-point on their journey into the Church.  Many became Catholic, others Anglican, others Lutheran, etc.  It's not surprising, since sometimes these other options make more immediate sense, but the same drive that leads them to those places often eventually leads them into Orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 02:40:37 PM by asdamick »
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: Antiochians want to maintain status quo
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2015, 02:43:32 PM »
I think the primary reason for the Antiochian's stance is not ethnophyletism or some sense of remaining ethnic. Rather, it's a practical thing, motivated by a need and desire to serve the faithful as best as possible.

Out of all the jurisdictions here, the Antiochians are arguably receiving the most immigrants from their original ethnic center. These people naturally gravitate towards Antiochian churches, and the Antiochian church is the most focused on providing support for those fleeing the Middle East.

I spent a while in the OCA, and while I did see many immigrants from places in Eastern Europe, they were mainly older people. The Antiochians aren't just receiving older immigrants, but a large number of young people, young professionals are coming over here from places like Syria, Lebanon, Jordan & Palestine.

While the church isn't an ethnic club, I will tell you that the Antiochian Church is probably the best location for these young people because many of them are going to deal with issues that older immigrants don't, and it's probably easier for the Archdiocese to deal with them than for another jurisdiction.

In fact, I know of a couple Antiochian Bishops (and even our own Priest) who, in the past, really wanted the Divine Services to only be in English, but in the last couple years they have relaxed their position on that due to the sheer number of people fleeing the Middle East and coming here.

Also, while I saw plenty of prayers being offered in the OCA for Syria, I think that the fear by the Antiochians, is that in unifying, direct aid to Syria (desperately needed!) by each individual parish, each diocese and the entire archdiocese would cease. Arguably, it'd be much harder to get a unified church (made up of lots of Greeks, Slavs etc...) to send a lot of financial aid to the Antiochian Churches in Syria, which really need a lot of help, and more help than just occasional donations to IOCC can provide.

I'm sure there is also a fear of being subjected to the Ecumenical Patriarch as well, which many Antiochians definitely do not want, since our Patriarchate only recently has gotten out from under the thumb and influence/control of the Phanar.