Author Topic: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.  (Read 4719 times)

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Offline Amatorus

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Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« on: September 11, 2015, 07:55:10 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7ujvOWWfpY

Look at 1:28, for example. Two icons of the Theotokos and Christ Pantocrator, respectively. Is it there for Prince Philip? I thought he converted to Anglicanism. Aren't icons against their theology?

« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 07:56:52 PM by Amatorus »

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2015, 08:00:51 PM »
I think some of the High Church Anglicans permit the use of icons.

Not to confuse these individuals with others such as that Episcopal one in San Francisco with the dancing business. Eeeeew.
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2015, 08:01:12 PM »
Sadly, "Anglican theology" has long ceased being coherent. Their appropriation of Orthodox trappings is no surprise.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2015, 08:10:24 PM »
Sadly, "Anglican theology" has long ceased being coherent. Their appropriation of Orthodox trappings is no surprise.

I always wondered this; if the Queen one morning in all honesty claimed she witnessed, say, the Archangel Michael talk to her to say some message, is that experience supposed to be embued within the Church theology then?

I know most Britons probably wouldn't take it too seriously but still.

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2015, 08:18:26 PM »
Like I said, Anglican theology has been all over the place for more than forty years. If the Queen did see such a vision, it would make no difference to what the Anglican church as a whole believes, not when there have been bishops openly questioning fundamental teachings such as the virgin birth and the Resurrection of Christ.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2015, 08:54:32 PM »
Like I said, Anglican theology has been all over the place for more than forty years. If the Queen did see such a vision, it would make no difference to what the Anglican church as a whole believes, not when there have been bishops openly questioning fundamental teachings such as the virgin birth and the Resurrection of Christ.

Up to what Councils they accept?

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2015, 08:57:29 PM »
When senior bishops come out and say such things as belief in a literal Resurrection of Christ and a literal virgin birth are not necessary, which councils their church subscribes to are irrelevant.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2015, 08:59:09 PM »
When senior bishops come out and say such things as belief in a literal Resurrection of Christ and a literal virgin birth are not necessary, which councils their church subscribes to are irrelevant.

Who said that and when was it said? Also shouldn't it matter more what the people believe?

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2015, 09:04:25 PM »
I think some of the High Church Anglicans permit the use of icons.

Not to confuse these individuals with others such as that Episcopal one in San Francisco with the dancing business. Eeeeew.

I have seen an icon once or twice in a (Western) RC Church and was shocked.

If I remember correctly, even though veneration of icons is theologically sound in the RC, the lack of it is purely cultural, right?

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2015, 09:12:31 PM »
Quote
Who said that and when was it said?

One of them is David Jenkins, Bishop of Durham, 1984. York Minster was hit by a lightning bolt and set on fire several days after he said these things. He is by no means the only one. Then there are American Episcopalians like Bishop Spong.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2015, 09:15:41 PM »
Quote
Who said that and when was it said?

One of them is David Jenkins, Bishop of Durham, 1984. York Minster was hit by a lightning bolt and set on fire several days after he said these things. He is by no means the only one. Then there are American Episcopalians like Bishop Spong.

Well...what would you describe the Anglican Church as then, if anything? To quote  the late Robin Williams "I'm an Episcopal, which is Catholic Lite. It's like same religion, half the guilt. "

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2015, 09:16:31 PM »

I have seen an icon once or twice in a (Western) RC Church and was shocked.


You haven't been to many RC churches, have you? There would be few RC churches in the world which don't have an icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help on display, and usually facing a stand of votive candles. This is not a new custom, either.



This icon is known in Orthodoxy as Mother of God of the Passion.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2015, 09:20:13 PM »

I have seen an icon once or twice in a (Western) RC Church and was shocked.


You haven't been to many RC churches, have you? There would be few RC churches in the world which don't have an icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help on display, and usually facing a stand of votive candles. This is not a new custom, either.



This icon is known in Orthodoxy as Mother of God of the Passion.

That's very interesting; I've never seen that, not even in St. Patrick's Cathedral. Why are icons rarely mentioned in that church, then? How did the Orthodox veneration grow so strong but Rome's decrease?

Were icons ever popular in the pre-Schism West?

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2015, 09:21:03 PM »

Well...what would you describe the Anglican Church as then, if anything?

A doctrinal mess, I'm sorry to say.  :(
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2015, 09:31:31 PM »

That's very interesting; I've never seen that, not even in St. Patrick's Cathedral. Why are icons rarely mentioned in that church, then? How did the Orthodox veneration grow so strong but Rome's decrease?

Were icons ever popular in the pre-Schism West?

Your questions require long answers to fully address them, but here's a start:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,15497.msg230203.html#msg230203
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2015, 09:37:20 PM »

Were icons ever popular in the pre-Schism West?

Yes, there are several churches in Britain that date back to the pre-Schism.
Here is a picture of one:

http://englandandenglishhistory.com/a-guide-to-english-art-from-450-ad-to-the-present/beginnings-of-medieval-english-art

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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2015, 09:43:56 PM »

Were icons ever popular in the pre-Schism West?

Yes, there are several churches in Britain that date back to the pre-Schism.
Here is a picture of one:

http://englandandenglishhistory.com/a-guide-to-english-art-from-450-ad-to-the-present/beginnings-of-medieval-english-art



Oh my, thank you for that link. I love this

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2015, 09:49:33 PM »
 Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.




Really?  all I see is icons hung up as pictures....I didn't see HM bowing or kissing or any other signs of actual veneration.

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2015, 09:50:48 PM »
Another post which might help, Amatorus:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,15497.msg230399.html#msg230399

The idea that the West did not develop a tradition of sacred iconography is silly to anyone who actually knows the history of Western art.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2015, 09:54:45 PM »
Another post which might help, Amatorus:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,15497.msg230399.html#msg230399

Something interesting you posted:

"In this regard, it must be remembered that the Byzantines were the descendants of the Greeks and Romans who gave the world the physical perfection of Classical sculpture and murals (such as the sculptures of Praxiteles and Pheidias, or the frescoes of Pompeii), and where the development of geometry allowed the refinement of linear perspective in depicting three dimensions on a flat surface."

It just hit me to make the connection how the same Empire that produced some of the greatest art known to man drastically changed its art focus over the centuries from the naturalistic to the abstract . :o Did the "Byzantines" see the Classical sculpture as idolatrous?

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2015, 09:56:39 PM »
Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.




Really?  all I see is icons hung up as pictures....I didn't see HM bowing or kissing or any other signs of actual veneration.

Well...I'm sure she has done something like that (kind of) in her life before at a service, but there's a cultural difference too. I don't know how the media would react if she was captured kissing an icon or praying to it. They would probably tear her apart and Protestant ministers would label her everything in the book, she can't do anything.

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2015, 09:58:52 PM »
you 'being sure' is not proof.


Sorry....I just don't buy that there is -veneration- going on here....period.

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2015, 10:00:25 PM »
Here is a picture of Westminister Abbey with the two Orthodox Icons



Notice that the people there consider them more as works of art rather than icons to be venerated.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 10:02:01 PM by Maria »
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2015, 10:01:27 PM »
Quote
It just hit me to make the connection how the same Empire that produced some of the greatest art known to man drastically changed its art focus over the centuries from the naturalistic to the abstract .

Naturalism is for earthly things. The abstraction of iconography speaks of what is not of this world.

Quote
Did the "Byzantines" see the Classical sculpture as idolatrous?

It's possible some saw them in that light, but it is also telling that the standard for images suitable for veneration became the icon, not the statue.
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Offline William T

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2015, 10:09:33 PM »
Sadly, "Anglican theology" has long ceased being coherent. Their appropriation of Orthodox trappings is no surprise.

Regardless, many in Modern England, including the Royals have done much for Orthodox refugees, historical sites, preservation of the writings, and so on.  I have no patience for traditional Orthodox people so quickly condemning the West.

I  mean what do you want to say about the Orthodox?  That a minority of us  (and not us personally) didn't go iconoclastic, Islamic or commie in a time of severe persecution within our own culture?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 10:14:18 PM by William T »

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2015, 10:09:53 PM »
you 'being sure' is not proof.


Sorry....I just don't buy that there is -veneration- going on here....period.

Why are you salty

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2015, 10:11:38 PM »
Sadly, "Anglican theology" has long ceased being coherent. Their appropriation of Orthodox trappings is no surprise.

Regardless, many in Modern England, including the Royals have done much for Orthodox refugees, historical sites, preservation of the writings, and so on.  I have no patience for traditional Orthodox people so quickly condemning the West.

I was going to say this, if I remember correctly Prince Charles said he was interested by Orthdoxy and had a few kind words about it.

Here is a picture of Westminister Abbey with the two Orthodox Icons



Notice that the people there consider them more as works of art rather than icons to be venerated.

I think that's more of a symptom of the illness known as "Modern Culture". :/

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2015, 10:13:07 PM »
Sadly, "Anglican theology" has long ceased being coherent. Their appropriation of Orthodox trappings is no surprise.

Regardless, many in Modern England, including the Royals have done much for Orthodox refugees, historical sites, preservation of the writings, and so on.  I have no patience for traditional Orthodox people so quickly condemning the West.

Nobody here is "condemning the west", but it is an unfortunate fact that Anglican doctrine and theology has degenerated into incoherence in recent decades, to its detriment.
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2015, 10:21:35 PM »
I was going to say this, if I remember correctly Prince Charles said he was interested by Orthdoxy and had a few kind words about it.

Prince Philip was Orthodox before marrying the future Queen, through his being a member of the Greek royal house. Philip's grandmother was of the Romanov imperial family of Russia. Prince Charles has long had an interest in Orthodoxy, though this is not his only religious interest.
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2015, 10:35:30 PM »
Prince Charles went on a couple visits to Mt. Athos, if I recall correctly.
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2015, 10:42:41 PM »
Prince Charles went on a couple visits to Mt. Athos, if I recall correctly.

I think he's gone there annually for many years now.
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2015, 01:32:21 AM »
Thread locked pending review.

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2015, 08:29:15 AM »
Thread open after review.  Happy posting!

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2015, 07:42:18 AM »
From my knowledge, roman catholics venerate icons.
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2015, 08:06:39 AM »
Well...what would you describe the Anglican Church as then, if anything?

A country club for the culturally British.

If you call it 'Church of England', it will make a lot more sense.
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2015, 09:45:58 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2015, 10:32:17 AM »
From my knowledge, roman catholics venerate icons.

It might be more accurate to say the Roman Catholics venerate images, which includes icons, statues, pictures, etc. A lot of Catholic imagery is decorative, but people certainly kiss statues and light candles and incense in front of them. It is also very different among different ethnicities.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2015, 10:46:24 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

That is very intresting nice album/avatars :P

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2015, 10:51:59 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

That is very intresting nice album/avatars :P

Uhh...thanks I guess  :-[
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2015, 10:55:32 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

That is very intresting nice album/avatars :P

Uhh...thanks I guess  :-[

Do you have Steam/Myanimelist? If you do I would really like if you PM your links to me. I also need some advice about a thing.

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2015, 11:07:17 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

That is very intresting nice album/avatars :P

Uhh...thanks I guess  :-[

Do you have Steam/Myanimelist? If you do I would really like if you PM your links to me. I also need some advice about a thing.

Sadly no :(

I can however make a Myanimelist account and PM you the link though.
My Lord, My Lord, give my worthless soul the illumination of Wisdom in your mercy

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2015, 11:11:17 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

That is very intresting nice album/avatars :P

Uhh...thanks I guess  :-[

Do you have Steam/Myanimelist? If you do I would really like if you PM your links to me. I also need some advice about a thing.

Sadly no :(

I can however make a Myanimelist account and PM you the link though.

Seriously? You need tomake both accounts. Even steam has free games almost any computer can run. I can tell you more over PM. MAL is a great way to keep track of anime and such and they have forums as well. pls

Offline sakura95

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2015, 11:25:12 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

That is very intresting nice album/avatars :P

Uhh...thanks I guess  :-[

Do you have Steam/Myanimelist? If you do I would really like if you PM your links to me. I also need some advice about a thing.

Sadly no :(

I can however make a Myanimelist account and PM you the link though.

Seriously? You need tomake both accounts. Even steam has free games almost any computer can run. I can tell you more over PM. MAL is a great way to keep track of anime and such and they have forums as well. pls

But why?

Anyways, I already got the MAL account set up. Will PM you the link
My Lord, My Lord, give my worthless soul the illumination of Wisdom in your mercy

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2015, 11:27:39 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

That is very intresting nice album/avatars :P

Uhh...thanks I guess  :-[

Do you have Steam/Myanimelist? If you do I would really like if you PM your links to me. I also need some advice about a thing.

Sadly no :(

I can however make a Myanimelist account and PM you the link though.

Seriously? You need tomake both accounts. Even steam has free games almost any computer can run. I can tell you more over PM. MAL is a great way to keep track of anime and such and they have forums as well. pls

But why?

Anyways, I already got the MAL account set up. Will PM you the link

I don't have any friends...just one person I talk to sometimes.

Offline sakura95

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2015, 11:36:52 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

That is very intresting nice album/avatars :P

Uhh...thanks I guess  :-[

Do you have Steam/Myanimelist? If you do I would really like if you PM your links to me. I also need some advice about a thing.

Sadly no :(

I can however make a Myanimelist account and PM you the link though.

Seriously? You need tomake both accounts. Even steam has free games almost any computer can run. I can tell you more over PM. MAL is a great way to keep track of anime and such and they have forums as well. pls

But why?

Anyways, I already got the MAL account set up. Will PM you the link

I don't have any friends...just one person I talk to sometimes.
Well you got OC.net users to talk to and you have me.
My Lord, My Lord, give my worthless soul the illumination of Wisdom in your mercy

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2015, 07:27:46 PM »
If you would like to carry on a side conversation, please do so via PM so we can keep this thread on topic. Thanks.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2015, 07:37:47 PM »
From my knowledge, roman catholics venerate icons.

It might be more accurate to say the Roman Catholics venerate images, which includes icons, statues, pictures, etc. A lot of Catholic imagery is decorative, but people certainly kiss statues and light candles and incense in front of them. It is also very different among different ethnicities.

I think the trend in most Roman Catholic Churches is away from the veneration of Icons.
Where I live, almost all the statues and icons are no longer in Roman Catholic parishes, but they are moved to a side chapel where the Eucharist is reserved. Few venture therein. Nevertheless, in Eastern Catholic Churches, icons are venerated. In fact, those are the only places where veneration of icons is consistent.

In Anglican Churches, veneration of icons occurs far less frequently than in the Roman Catholic Churches, unless it is a High Anglican church.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline LBK

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2015, 10:59:02 PM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

Icons are rarely, if ever, venerated by Anglicans. Their presence in churches, and few at that, are because they're "exotic" and "mystical", a facet of "Anglican comprehensiveness". Few Anglicans seriously look into what icons truly are and their place in Orthodox worship and devotion.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2015, 11:41:02 PM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

Icons are rarely, if ever, venerated by Anglicans. Their presence in churches, and few at that, are because they're "exotic" and "mystical", a facet of "Anglican comprehensiveness". Few Anglicans seriously look into what icons truly are and their place in Orthodox worship and devotion.
I don't know much about them to say whether they venerate them or not. The low church probably would see them as art and exotic decoration. The high church may have more respect for them.

I'll grant that the Church of England put them there as a sort of gesture of respect for the Eastern Orthodox.

My Lord, My Lord, give my worthless soul the illumination of Wisdom in your mercy

Offline Maria

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2015, 11:56:53 PM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

Icons are rarely, if ever, venerated by Anglicans. Their presence in churches, and few at that, are because they're "exotic" and "mystical", a facet of "Anglican comprehensiveness". Few Anglicans seriously look into what icons truly are and their place in Orthodox worship and devotion.
I don't know much about them to say whether they venerate them or not. The low church probably would see them as art and exotic decoration. The high church may have more respect for them.

I'll grant that the Church of England put them there as a sort of gesture of respect for the Eastern Orthodox.



No doubt. The icons help to beautify their churches. For most Anglicans, church is a social event, a happy habit, where one puts on his or hers best clothes, visits family and acquaintances, and hears some words of platitude from the pastor, such as:

Quote
The definition of insanity (or sin) is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.
(attributed to Albert Einstein)

However, the people are given absolutely no grace to stop sinning, just a little hope to keep on doing the same insane things in hopes that something will work someday.

But the icon, if they even look at it, could add some hope.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline wgw

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2015, 11:59:19 PM »
I think thats an altogether unfair characterization of Anglicanism.  Ive attended Anglican church enough times to be able to attest to the existence of piety therein.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2015, 12:15:44 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

Icons are rarely, if ever, venerated by Anglicans. Their presence in churches, and few at that, are because they're "exotic" and "mystical", a facet of "Anglican comprehensiveness". Few Anglicans seriously look into what icons truly are and their place in Orthodox worship and devotion.
I don't know much about them to say whether they venerate them or not. The low church probably would see them as art and exotic decoration. The high church may have more respect for them.

I'll grant that the Church of England put them there as a sort of gesture of respect for the Eastern Orthodox.



No doubt. The icons help to beautify their churches. For most Anglicans, church is a social event, a happy habit, where one puts on his or hers best clothes, visits family and acquaintances, and hears some words of platitude from the pastor, such as:

Quote
The definition of insanity (or sin) is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.
(attributed to Albert Einstein)

However, the people are given absolutely no grace to stop sinning, just a little hope to keep on doing the same insane things in hopes that something will work someday.

But the icon, if they even look at it, could add some hope.
How many Anglican services at how many Anglican churches have you visited, Maria?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Maria

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2015, 12:26:30 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

Icons are rarely, if ever, venerated by Anglicans. Their presence in churches, and few at that, are because they're "exotic" and "mystical", a facet of "Anglican comprehensiveness". Few Anglicans seriously look into what icons truly are and their place in Orthodox worship and devotion.
I don't know much about them to say whether they venerate them or not. The low church probably would see them as art and exotic decoration. The high church may have more respect for them.

I'll grant that the Church of England put them there as a sort of gesture of respect for the Eastern Orthodox.



No doubt. The icons help to beautify their churches. For most Anglicans, church is a social event, a happy habit, where one puts on his or hers best clothes, visits family and acquaintances, and hears some words of platitude from the pastor, such as:

Quote
The definition of insanity (or sin) is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.
(attributed to Albert Einstein)

However, the people are given absolutely no grace to stop sinning, just a little hope to keep on doing the same insane things in hopes that something will work someday.

But the icon, if they even look at it, could add some hope.
How many Anglican services at how many Anglican churches have you visited, Maria?

Enough. When I was a child and then a teenager, my dad would take us camping at least twice or three times a year, and then head for the nearest church in the nearest town thinking that it was Catholic, when it was Anglican because the billboard said "St. Mark's Church," "St. John the Divine Church," "St. Luke's Church," or "St. Paul's Church" or St. Mary's Church". It was not until we received the parish bulletin after the service was over, that we realized that we were in the wrong church. They had almost the same Novus Ordo liturgy as was celebrated in the Roman Catholic Church, and the same banal sermon, and the same hymns. We felt at home, unthreatened, with people wearing decent clothes and smiling at everyone. My dad tried to find different campsites to visit, so we were always surprised that he found so many different Anglican churches.

It always made for interesting confessions, but our priest was always very understanding and congratulated us for trying, but he did not like the idea that we had supported those Anglicans.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2015, 06:57:58 AM »
Anglicans are quite ok with imagery and icons. Every famous Church of England Cathedral I ever visited has Icons.

Here's two icons from Southwark Cathedral,

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12019985_10206574848081493_7938332486185608234_n_zpstcpgrhpe.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Sakuramochi95/12038229_10206574846201446_1244812641722163721_n_zpsyhpn8tz2.jpg

Whether or not these icons are venerated is another issue all together though.

Icons are rarely, if ever, venerated by Anglicans. Their presence in churches, and few at that, are because they're "exotic" and "mystical", a facet of "Anglican comprehensiveness". Few Anglicans seriously look into what icons truly are and their place in Orthodox worship and devotion.
I don't know much about them to say whether they venerate them or not. The low church probably would see them as art and exotic decoration. The high church may have more respect for them.

I'll grant that the Church of England put them there as a sort of gesture of respect for the Eastern Orthodox.



No doubt. The icons help to beautify their churches. For most Anglicans, church is a social event, a happy habit, where one puts on his or hers best clothes, visits family and acquaintances, and hears some words of platitude from the pastor, such as:

Quote
The definition of insanity (or sin) is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.
(attributed to Albert Einstein)

However, the people are given absolutely no grace to stop sinning, just a little hope to keep on doing the same insane things in hopes that something will work someday.

But the icon, if they even look at it, could add some hope.
How many Anglican services at how many Anglican churches have you visited, Maria?

Enough.
That doesn't answer my question.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2015, 10:55:13 AM »
Sadly, "Anglican theology" has long ceased being coherent. Their appropriation of Orthodox trappings is no surprise.

I always wondered this; if the Queen one morning in all honesty claimed she witnessed, say, the Archangel Michael talk to her to say some message, is that experience supposed to be embued within the Church theology then?

I know most Britons probably wouldn't take it too seriously but still.
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get ready you old welfare queen.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 10:56:33 AM by augustin717 »
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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #56 on: September 30, 2015, 02:38:17 PM »
Instead of being angry they're "appropriating orthodoxy" - you should rejoice in that Orthodoxy has managed to make an impact on a congregation that has chosen to apostasize even from protestant christianity in favour of progressivism.

Besides, Iconography existed in northern Europe as well before the protestant heresies began. There are many medieval icons made in the west that are very similar in style to ancient greek ones. Even the rosary is a development from the prayer ropes used by orthodox to this day - people in the western church also used to use a prayer rope & venerate icons & relics.

You can see that the state protestant churches are slowly moving back towards traditional christianity in many aspects while in doctrine they're moving the opposite way. Also disproving the validity of protestantism itself since the new, heretical doctrines of homosexual marriages, priestesses & bishopesses were defined by the protestant churches by majority vote - they show why the Church cant be guided by majority vote.

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Re: Can Roman Catholics and Anglicans venerate icons? Her Majesty is.
« Reply #57 on: September 30, 2015, 02:48:12 PM »
Instead of being angry they're "appropriating orthodoxy" - you should rejoice in that Orthodoxy has managed to make an impact on a congregation that has chosen to apostasize even from protestant christianity in favour of progressivism.

Where's the fun in that?