Author Topic: Reuniting Christian Relations  (Read 2936 times)

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Offline Lystra

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Reuniting Christian Relations
« on: July 08, 2005, 01:33:16 AM »
I know Pope Benedict is trying to reunite the break between the Catoholic Church and the Orthodox Church, but what exactly is he in the process of doing? Also, if the churches were to be reuntied, what would be your reaction/opinion?
ÂÂ  Mine would be that it would show our true humility and to live the word when it says "Judge NO MAN in his worship." It would really show that just because we have a little difference, we as Christians can still be united.
      But more importantly, what is your opinion about the questions at hand?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 01:34:39 AM by Lystra »
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Offline choirfiend

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2005, 01:43:24 AM »
He's talking to us. The Orthodox are talking back. But no union is going to come until we have unity of belief. If we had the same beliefs, no one would oppose union. Til then, we witness to the Faith, Truth, and Church by not compromising them in order to hold hands with someone.The Truth is worth keeping and worth letting others take their time in getting back to it.
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Offline Lystra

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2005, 01:49:20 AM »
I don't mean to sound rude, but you are saying that we can't have a relation with us if they do not have the same belief? Aren't we to accept people even if they do not believe the same thing as us? I mean, I'm sure not all of the people you have relationships with do not have the same beliefs as you, but you still accept them, do you concur?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 02:06:37 AM by Lystra »
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Offline choirfiend

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2005, 01:54:55 AM »
Sure, I accept them. I even work with them, volunteer with them, socialize with them...and pray for them, that God will work in their hearts to bring them home to the Body of Christ so they can have all the opportunities afforded to me.  As someone just said on another forum...

"The Church already has unity. She is ONE, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic."

Soooo truuuuuuue.


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Offline choirfiend

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2005, 01:56:14 AM »
And, we already have a relationship with lots of ppl--RC, Protestant, Jewish, Mormon, Muslim, Buddhist, Taoist, etc. We're very happy with our relationship with them except where they persecute us, which happens sometimes.
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Offline GiC

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2005, 01:56:50 AM »
I don't mean to sound rude, but you are saying that we can't have a relation with us if they do not have the same belief? Aren't we to accept people even if they do not believe the same thing as us? I mean, I'm sure not all of the people you have relationships with do not have the same beliefs as you, but you still accept them, do you concur?

Communion is an affirmation of a common faith. If we believe different things, the communion cannot be genuine. We can be in dialogue with the Latins and certainly should maintain amicable ecumenical relations with them, but communion or reunion is only possible if we share a common faith, that is to say common beliefs.
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Offline Lystra

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2005, 02:04:28 AM »
Oh God, I know this is gonna start something now!!! j/k

  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚  But a Christian could worship with a Buddhist by saying, My God, My God, and just worshiping to his God, because he knows the God he is worshiping. So basically a Christian could worship with anyone, as long as they know who they are worshiping... :-X
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 02:05:05 AM by Lystra »
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Offline Lystra

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2005, 02:06:03 AM »
sorry...
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 02:06:57 AM by Lystra »
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Offline choirfiend

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2005, 02:15:42 AM »
Oh God, I know this is gonna start something now!!! j/k

        But a Christian could worship with a Buddhist by saying, My God, My God, and just worshiping to his God, because he knows the God he is worshiping. So basically a Christian could worship with anyone, as long as they know who they are worshiping... :-X

Not true, either scripturally or in the practice (Tradition) of the Church. Someone else can explain it to you more.
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Offline sin_vladimirov

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2005, 02:32:04 AM »
Dear Lystra, it is not that simple. We are bound by communion to be out of communion with those that we are not in communion with.

Just bear with me for a second.

By being Orthodox we acknowledge One God by One Grace through One Faith in One Church for One life in One Baptism for One Judgement and Life of the ages to come.

Lord and Holy Apostles and Fathers of the Church were all very clear that there is not to be "inter-communion"; as (if we did such a thing) we would negate the communion of the One Church by communing with "others". (compare Ephesians 4, 4-6.) (also I am fairly sure that my patron Saint Nicholas would come down and slap us hard, as he did during his life  :) )

Now to be honest there is a very good example about inter-communion that I really do not wish to use because of your age but let me just say that inter-communion is often compared with what is written in 1. Corinthians 6, 15-18. (to be clear that text speaks of physical act of immorality, but at the same time it can be presented as a figurative of spiritual immorality that inter-communion is).


God is jealous for His Church and she is jealous for Him.
That is she is in literall love with the Lord who is her Bridegroom and she is His virgin and betrothed. He died for her and He gives her power to live and die for Him (death as Martyrdom and normal falling alseep of her members) . It is a state of communion. It is ONE BEING. The Head and His precious body. The communion of Saints. That is why we just can not commune with "others". We pray and cry for them, we struggle and try to show them, but it just can not be inter-communion.

I hope this helps a little bit.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 02:45:43 AM by sin_vladimirov »
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Offline Ian Lazarus

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2005, 03:07:18 AM »
Good Post, SV.

Also, I would add that God did say "For the other gods are deamons".

We as Orthodox Christians cannot truly pray with members of other religions, because they do not pray to the same God as us.  God makes it clear that all is lie but He.  The faith cannot be compromised in the name of good relations with others.  We love them, but loving does not mean accepting false beliefs.  They show good behaviors and values, which is proof that God has not left them empty.  Yet they do not know who the real God is, and it does not help to be altruistic.  Our love comes from Love's Source: God Himself.  All other semblaces thereof are not pure, true love.  So, if we pray with others of other faiths, the question comes up "Do they understand love as God show it, or, are they praying for a mere semblance of love? "   Or another is "What are they praying for exactly?"  And since they do not pray to The One God,  they must be praying, deductively, to either the wind or to a deamon.  It may seem cruel, but the truth is often harsh.  We may pray to God for them, but not with them to other "gods".


Also, pertaining to other Christians, many outside the Church have adopted the apostacies that the Holy Church as a whole had rejected.  St. Paul writes "Shun those who walk disorderly among you."  Their understanding is tainted with a falsehood that we as the full Church Unchaged cannot accept.  It is basically (though WAY oversimplified) like a railroad man buying a railcar that he knows has a faulty wheel.  In the case of the Roman Church, there are things, such as Papal infalability, the Emaculate Conception, Culpulsatory Celebate Priesthood, use of Azyms, and Papal Supremecy, that we see as "bum wheels" that we cannot place on our train, lest it be lead off the track.  Again this is said in love, and not out of spite of my Roman Friends.  That is why we say, "let them come back the same way they left" so that all runs as it has from the beginning.  Anything else changes the faith, and we dare not do that.

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Offline Kolya

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2005, 03:25:53 AM »
Very good post SV!
Just tell me something, where is the church with that beaut icon dome?
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Offline Tina

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2005, 04:29:45 AM »
Oh my................. S.V. that beautiful dome almost brought tears to my eyes..........really.

Offline sin_vladimirov

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2005, 05:32:55 AM »
The pic is taken from Orthodox Photos http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/ (lots of nice pics).
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Offline Lystra

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2005, 11:47:29 AM »
ok, Thanx for those posts sin_vlad and Ian Lazarus, I totally understand where you are coming from. Ok, let me correct myself, I didn't mean that you can worship with those that are not in the same beliefs as you, but you can worship beside them, know what I mean? Its kinda like the democrats and the Republicans believe totally different things, but they still work beside eachother, not for eachother, but beside. Do you understand? ???
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Offline Mo the Ethio

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2005, 01:57:41 PM »
Dear Lystra:
  Here`s my take on this. We , as Orthodox, cannot compromise with Rome without compromising
our faith as handed down to us by the Saints and our Holy Fathers.The issues that divide us ( the filioque, Roman papal supremacy) were addressed(long before the split) and settled by the seven ecumenical synods. Pope Leo III knew that the filioque was heresy. It is Rome that is responsible for the schism. It is Rome alone that is in error and outside of the Church. It is Rome alone that can repair the split by removing herself from her heresys and come back to THE ONE Church .
This may sound narrow minded but, it is the truth.
  As far as praying with buddists..etc...Ian Lazarus is right..We do not worship the same God.Therefore we cannot pray with them (heretics) ( forbidden by cannon law). The Gods of the Pagans ARE demons.               In Christ , MOSES
                       
 
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Offline Lystra

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2005, 02:22:33 PM »
Well, I didn't mean to say that I worship Buddha, because I DON"T!!! no, i just meant to say that a christian can worship beside a buddhist, but be worshiping God and not BUddha. comprende? ok, I will just keep my mouth shut
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2005, 02:24:34 PM »
Well, I didn't mean to say that I worship Buddha, because I DON"T!!! no, i just meant to say that a christian can worship beside a buddhist, but be worshiping God and not BUddha. comprende? ok, I will just keep my mouth shut

Lystra,
There are very ancient canons that say one can't worship with heretics or pagans.  There may even be specific Holy Scripture as well.

Offline Lystra

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2005, 02:27:20 PM »
ok, well I just wanted to hear others opinions and now I have, so thanx, keep 'em coming ;)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 02:31:23 PM by Lystra »
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Offline Veniamin

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2005, 02:54:36 PM »
Lystra,
There are very ancient canons that say one can't worship with heretics or pagans.ÂÂ  There may even be specific Holy Scripture as well.

As well as the practical aspect.  If Orthodox Christians were to simply worship "beside" both heretics and pagans, those outside the Church would then be able to say, "See!  The Orthodox do worship the same god we do.  There is no need for us to become Orthodox if we all worship the same god!"  Granted, those who would say that wouldn't know that we weren't worshipping their "gods" but the mere appearance of it alone would be damaging enough to our witness as to make our attempts at evangelization fruitless.  It's not a prohibition handed down by a council just so they could hear themselves anathemize something; it's one handed down for a reason.
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Offline choirfiend

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2005, 03:11:07 PM »
I dont know about you, but I love to hear myself anathematize things.

Like, I just anathematized my cilantro plant and now it's all wilty!!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 03:27:51 PM by choirfiend »
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Offline Veniamin

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Re: Reuniting Christian Relations
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2005, 03:25:55 PM »
Actually, it's wilty because you haven't watered it in a month. :P
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