Author Topic: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.  (Read 3221 times)

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Offline Mountain

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Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« on: August 23, 2015, 11:23:33 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 11:24:00 PM by Mountain »

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2015, 11:38:28 PM »
Well that's a stretch...

Offline wgw

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2015, 02:32:18 PM »
I think His Eminence presented a fair criticism of the Latin Rite oractice of communion in one soecies only which I had not considered.  "Drink this, all lf you" does seem a firm instruction.  His eschatological statement on the other hand may well be right, but is oerhaos less than perfectly charitable, and also in all fairness to everyone, only at the traditional Latin masses do people communicate in one species only, something I think should be changed,

Rome stopped distirbuting the wine largely for reasons of practicality, samitation and convenience starting I think just before the Great Schism, after the Photian schism, after some years involving the laity using a glass straw or fistula, and experiments with intinction and so on.  A messy picture.  Where Rome really went off the deep end though was the Tridentine anathema against those who said basically what His Eminence just said. which is an anthema that seems to apply to our Lord if we interpret Him literally, which they do in so far as admitting transsubstantiation.   

Its a mess, and a great tragedy, especially when one considers how RC maximalism orevented an accomodation for example of the Via Media of the Czech Utraquists.
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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2015, 03:40:34 PM »

Rome stopped distirbuting the wine largely for reasons of practicality, samitation and convenience starting I think just before the Great Schism, after the Photian schism, after some years involving the laity using a glass straw or fistula, and experiments with intinction and so on. 
That's it. The reason is not that the laity is not worthy. Furthemore, at some parishes (usually if they're small one) the Communion is given to the faitful also with the Blood of Christ and it's obligatory to do it everywhere on the Great Thursday (at least in Poland) and at the wedding.
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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2015, 04:49:01 PM »
Lol
During the Iconoclastic Crisis, Stephen the Faster challenged the assembled Bishops at Hiereia:

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2015, 04:51:47 PM »
<sigh>
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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2015, 04:52:15 PM »
Its a mess, and a great tragedy, especially when one considers how RC maximalism orevented an accomodation for example of the Via Media of the Czech Utraquists.

They were accomodated by the RCC. The utraquists rejoined after being allowed the chalice and then went on to help the RCC fight the Hussites.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 04:53:13 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2015, 05:20:43 PM »
I'm on my cell phone so can any tell me what the Serbian Orthodox Bishop is condeming the Latins for?

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2015, 06:32:33 PM »
Its attributing special importance to personal beliefs.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2015, 07:25:11 PM »
Summary:

1) As it relates to communion/eucharist, Jesus said to both eat and drink; this was a prophecy
2) Catholics forbid laity from drinking when taking communion
3) Thus Christ's prophecy was speaking against the Catholics and this deviation

(Someone will surely correct me if I've misrepresented/misunderstood the bishop, but I believe I summed up all his inaccuracies accurately.)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 07:26:10 PM by Justin Kissel »

Offline Mountain

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2015, 08:00:25 PM »
What inaccuracies?

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2015, 10:22:07 PM »
It's interesting to me that he interprets Christ's words to be a prophecy instead of interpreting their actions to be merely disobedience.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2015, 08:05:33 AM »
I'm going to die and make me Pope.
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Offline biro

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2015, 11:27:33 AM »
Hmm, I don't know if they've had a dead Pope yet.

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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2015, 12:46:10 PM »
Hmm, I don't know if they've had a dead Pope yet.

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2015, 01:49:47 PM »
Hmm, I don't know if they've had a dead Pope yet.

Synodus Horrenda (Cadaver Synod):

« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 02:09:47 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2015, 06:13:35 PM »
Oops, okay then.  :-[
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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2015, 07:07:33 PM »
Its a mess, and a great tragedy, especially when one considers how RC maximalism orevented an accomodation for example of the Via Media of the Czech Utraquists.

They were accomodated by the RCC. The utraquists rejoined after being allowed the chalice and then went on to help the RCC fight the Hussites.

But was not the Chalice then taken away after Trent?

By the way, as for the Cadaver Synod: horrors!

If the Piedmont Easter, the corruption of the medieval and renaissance church, the Inquisition and the Auto da Fe, and other attrocities were not enough to convince one of Rome's fall from grace, this is.

However, we must remember the victims were the common laity who had the misfortune of falling wihin Roman jurisdiction.  Also, we had abuses on our side(s) of the fence, but nothing that macabre.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 07:10:27 PM by wgw »
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2015, 09:39:32 PM »
Well, technically, he wasn't the pope while he was dead. He was rather tried for an invalid papacy postmortem, and retroactively had his papacy nullified.

But still, fun times.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 09:39:39 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2015, 09:27:55 AM »
By the way, I would like to know the context in which the Patriarch made these remarks.  Patriarch Irinej seems a pious and beautiful bishop, but I dont know much about him.  Given the unpleasant history of Serbo-Croatian relations, I Would assume that he would not risk provoking an incident by making these remarks, accurate though they are, apros pos to nothing.  Im hoping that rather this is part of a catechtical video for the youth or converts or non-Serbians explaining the distinct beliefs and practices of the Orthodox compared to Rome.
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Offline Mountain

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2015, 09:37:18 AM »
By the way, I would like to know the context in which the Patriarch made these remarks.  Patriarch Irinej seems a pious and beautiful bishop, but I dont know much about him.  Given the unpleasant history of Serbo-Croatian relations, I Would assume that he would not risk provoking an incident by making these remarks, accurate though they are, apros pos to nothing.  Im hoping that rather this is part of a catechtical video for the youth or converts or non-Serbians explaining the distinct beliefs and practices of the Orthodox compared to Rome.

This is not Patriarch Irinej, this is bishop Danilo, he died in 2002. He was talking about Eucharist and he made few digressions about Latin practices.

There is one his lecture translated to English on YouTube, very interesting.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceg8DIbV6vY

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2015, 09:51:16 AM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?
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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2015, 10:02:53 AM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?


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« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 11:38:53 AM by PeterTheAleut »

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2015, 10:47:16 AM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2015, 06:00:28 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 06:01:36 PM by Justin Kissel »

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2015, 06:03:54 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?

So your saying Photius was wrong and the Catholics are right in the Schism?  ???

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2015, 06:04:58 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0

So what do people actually think is wrong with what this Bishop is saying?

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2015, 06:08:02 PM »
And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Imperial politics and human sinfulness never--NEVER--have anything to do with divisions in the Church.  It's always because of the heresies of the evil heretics who are always heretical. 

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2015, 06:22:55 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?

Oh my...
During the Iconoclastic Crisis, Stephen the Faster challenged the assembled Bishops at Hiereia:

"How can you call a council ecumenical when the bishop of Rome has not given his consent, and the canons forbid ecclesiastical affairs to be decided without the pope of Rome?"
-Stephen the Faster

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2015, 06:29:10 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2015, 05:04:41 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?

 :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2015, 07:41:07 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?

There's more to it than that. Had St. Ignatius remained in office, the pope likely would have acted against him. It is also true that St. Ignatius' partisans admitted that he had resigned, meaning that his removal from office would have been licit. If St. Photius is largely remarried as a sort of lionized mythologized version of the actual man he was, for his opposition to the pope, then it is also true that St. Ignatius was largely remembered by the West as a sort of mythologized foil to St. Photius rather than as the man himself.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2015, 08:34:25 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?

There's more to it than that. Had St. Ignatius remained in office, the pope likely would have acted against him. It is also true that St. Ignatius' partisans admitted that he had resigned, meaning that his removal from office would have been licit. If St. Photius is largely remarried as a sort of lionized mythologized version of the actual man he was, for his opposition to the pope, then it is also true that St. Ignatius was largely remembered by the West as a sort of mythologized foil to St. Photius rather than as the man himself.
Remarried? ???
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2015, 07:52:26 PM »
If St. Photius is largely remembered as a sort of lionized mythologized version of the actual man he was ...

I'm of the opinion that he fell somewhere in between that lionized view and what RCs say of him -- granted that's not saying very much considering e.g. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12043b.htm
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Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2015, 01:31:26 AM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?

There's more to it than that. Had St. Ignatius remained in office, the pope likely would have acted against him. It is also true that St. Ignatius' partisans admitted that he had resigned, meaning that his removal from office would have been licit. If St. Photius is largely remarried as a sort of lionized mythologized version of the actual man he was, for his opposition to the pope, then it is also true that St. Ignatius was largely remembered by the West as a sort of mythologized foil to St. Photius rather than as the man himself.
Remarried? ???
Remembered. Phone's autocorrect had other things in mind, so I see.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2015, 01:35:33 AM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?

There's more to it than that. Had St. Ignatius remained in office, the pope likely would have acted against him. It is also true that St. Ignatius' partisans admitted that he had resigned, meaning that his removal from office would have been licit. If St. Photius is largely remarried as a sort of lionized mythologized version of the actual man he was, for his opposition to the pope, then it is also true that St. Ignatius was largely remembered by the West as a sort of mythologized foil to St. Photius rather than as the man himself.
Remarried? ???
Remembered. Phone's autocorrect had other things in mind, so I see.
Damned autocorrect!!! >:( ;)
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2015, 12:20:50 PM »
His eminence bishop Danilo Krstic, the bishop of the Serbian Orthodox Church (2002+) explains that Christ predicted Latin errors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6z22hmi_P0
"Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin..." Where have I seen that before?

Saint Photius?

Actually St. Photius was willing to let pretty much everything that Rome did differently slide (he said so himself). It was not until Photius saw that the Pope was not going to let up that he changed his tune. The Pope contested his elevation on some disciplinary grounds (going from laymen to Patriarch in about 1.46767 days), which did not present a strong case (esp. with similar examples happening in the earlier centuries in the west). The more significant issue was deposition of St. Ignatius. Rome was completely correct on all of this. Then the Pope had Photius deposed, so Photius responded by figuring out that the Pope of Rome was a heretic after all. Behold Photius, the champion of Orthodoxy and guardian of the faith: let me be bishop and you're ok with me, but if you object then I'll have you declared a heretic on some completely unrelated matter.

And so it happened that Catholics got multiple saints out of it, the Orthodox got multiple saints out of it, the Catholics got an Ecumenical council, the Orthodox got a council that 1200 years later there are still debates about whether it is ecumenical, there were trials and depositions and excommunications and exiles, and Orthodoxy got a 'champion' for the later debates with Catholics. And all because some byzantine politicians got involved in murder, wicked interference in church matters, the wrongful deposing of a saintly man, and fornication/adultery, and the Pope had the gall to object to this stuff.

Is that who you meant, the Photius of history and reality? Or were you're thinking of the fictional Photius of hagiography and apologetics?

If it wasn't Photius it would have been somebody else. Two Emperors claiming to be  the successor of Caesar Augustus and Saint Constantine (rather than merely supporting each other as West and East halves) and their own Patriarchates supporting them.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2015, 09:41:16 AM »
You are my newest hero today!
You read through all this stuff!
I stand in awe, sir.
God is The Creator of All Free Beings

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2015, 11:59:51 AM »
You are my newest hero today!
You read through all this stuff!
I stand in awe, sir.
To whom are you speaking?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Orthodox Bishop condemns Latin practices.
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2015, 05:58:50 PM »
You are my newest hero today!
You read through all this stuff!
I stand in awe, sir.
To whom are you speaking?
The previous poster, #37, Amatorus. Why?
God is The Creator of All Free Beings