Author Topic: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?  (Read 2614 times)

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Offline Luthien

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I just moved to PA from TX and have decided to visit the Orthodox churches in my area in order to find one in which I can covert.

One on the list is an ACROD parish, of which I previously new nothing about, so I decided go this past Sunday.

A number of things I found quite confusing and a couple upsetting.

I wanted to see if anyone can clarify if these are issues of this specific church or wider trends that exist within the Church.

The previous Sunday I had attended a ROCOR parish that was the opposite in so many ways! It was tiny and mainly comprised of new, young Russian immigrants and a Liturgy entirely in Slavonic. For different reasons I decided this would no be suitable for me either...

I will just list the things I found confusing and the one thing that really upset me:

Confused

1. This was the shortest liturgy I have ever been to in my life (Catholic or Orthodox). We arrived ten minutes late, but they were already reading the gospel when we got there. Before I knew it, the liturgy was over. I would guess it lasted about 45 minutes. At the ROCOR church by comparison, the liturgy seemed to go for over 2 hours! If it is the same liturgy, how is is possible to cut so much out? My husband joked that it was the difference between the made-for-TV version (ACROD) and the extended edition (ROCOR).  I noticed there were almost no litanies like I was used to hearing at other divine liturgies.

2.Kneeling and sitting a lot. At the point of the consecration and the Our Father, and a few others I am forgetting, most of the congregation knelt. There were also many points at which we sat down. This paired with the streamlined liturgy almost felt like I was attending a Catholic Mass. I will note that this parish, according to their website, was established by a group of Eastern Catholics in the 30s, so perhaps there are some lingering Latinizations?

3. On that note, the priest, deacon, and sub-deacon were all clean shaven and had closely cropped hair. I've certainly seen Orthodox priests with shorter hair, but none shaven. The priest was also wearing a roman collar under his vestments.

4.They didn't close the iconostasis at any point.

5. Bells?

6. The church didn't seem to have traditional iconography on the iconostasis or walls. Instead it was kind of reminiscent of 1950's Roman Catholic prayer cards with an extremely Aryan Christ and saints.



Bad

1. After Communion I noticed that there was a woman texting in front of me while the rest of her family were talking among themselves. I was sitting near the front, but I though I heard murmuring behind me as well. Out of curiosity I turned around and noticed almost everyone was talking! I found this quite irreverent. I know Orthodox are chattier than Western Christians, but I have never seen such a casual approach to taking Communion before among Orthodox. That is probably what I found the most troublesome.



« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 11:26:31 AM by Luthien »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2015, 11:30:01 AM »
Hopefully Podkarpartska will see this and comment.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 11:31:19 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline homedad76

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2015, 11:31:13 AM »
Any one of these things by itself would be tolerable but all of those things at once seems a bridge too far.  Except the one about being clean shaven.  I've seen that plenty.  Yes it is a 'western' thing but you have to remember that in the west having a beard or not having a beard had the opposite connotation from the east.  It truly is a cultural thing and the difference in views is what led to conflict over it not the actual intent of the person whose face was under scrutiny.
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2015, 11:47:35 AM »
any other churches/parishes other than ACROD OR ROCOR in your area? ACROD sounds very Catholic & Western from your description. hopefully podkarpartska can explain to us the confusion coming out of ACROD.

Offline Luthien

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 11:57:21 AM »
any other churches/parishes other than ACROD OR ROCOR in your area? ACROD sounds very Catholic & Western from your description. hopefully podkarpartska can explain to us the confusion coming out of ACROD.

Oh, yes! There are loads of churches. There are several OCA, ROC, Greek, and Antiochian churches. There are also Albanian, Serbian, Romanian, Ukrainian, and Western Rite ROCOR churches that I know of. Within a reasonable distance to where I live there are probably at least 20 churches I can visit.

I don't know how to choose one at all!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 11:58:17 AM by Luthien »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2015, 12:15:50 PM »
What part of PA are you living in? I'm in York. You can pm me if you want. If it is anywhere near central PA, I know most of the good/bad/ugly on which parishes to attend.
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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2015, 12:20:54 PM »
That sounds odd to me, but if you are unhappy with the parish, it is certainly okay to find a better one. Best of luck.
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Offline Matthew Herman

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2015, 04:30:40 PM »
any other churches/parishes other than ACROD OR ROCOR in your area? ACROD sounds very Catholic & Western from your description. hopefully podkarpartska can explain to us the confusion coming out of ACROD.

Oh, yes! There are loads of churches. There are several OCA, ROC, Greek, and Antiochian churches. There are also Albanian, Serbian, Romanian, Ukrainian, and Western Rite ROCOR churches that I know of. Within a reasonable distance to where I live there are probably at least 20 churches I can visit.

I don't know how to choose one at all!

I would choose the closest OCA parish to visit next.  Pretty good chance you'll arrive in a setting that is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes you listed.

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Matthew Herman

Offline biro

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2015, 05:53:16 PM »
any other churches/parishes other than ACROD OR ROCOR in your area? ACROD sounds very Catholic & Western from your description. hopefully podkarpartska can explain to us the confusion coming out of ACROD.

Oh, yes! There are loads of churches. There are several OCA, ROC, Greek, and Antiochian churches. There are also Albanian, Serbian, Romanian, Ukrainian, and Western Rite ROCOR churches that I know of. Within a reasonable distance to where I live there are probably at least 20 churches I can visit.

I don't know how to choose one at all!

I would choose the closest OCA parish to visit next.  Pretty good chance you'll arrive in a setting that is somewhere in the middle of the two extremes you listed.

In Christ,
Matthew Herman

I think that's a good idea too. Hopefully the poor experience on his first church visit was an anomaly, and another parish will be better.
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Offline Shiranui117

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2015, 12:09:29 AM »
I just moved to PA from TX and have decided to visit the Orthodox churches in my area in order to find one in which I can covert.

One on the list is an ACROD parish, of which I previously new nothing about, so I decided go this past Sunday.

A number of things I found quite confusing and a couple upsetting.

I wanted to see if anyone can clarify if these are issues of this specific church or wider trends that exist within the Church.

The previous Sunday I had attended a ROCOR parish that was the opposite in so many ways! It was tiny and mainly comprised of new, young Russian immigrants and a Liturgy entirely in Slavonic. For different reasons I decided this would no be suitable for me either...

I will just list the things I found confusing and the one thing that really upset me:

Confused

1. This was the shortest liturgy I have ever been to in my life (Catholic or Orthodox). We arrived ten minutes late, but they were already reading the gospel when we got there. Before I knew it, the liturgy was over. I would guess it lasted about 45 minutes. At the ROCOR church by comparison, the liturgy seemed to go for over 2 hours! If it is the same liturgy, how is is possible to cut so much out? My husband joked that it was the difference between the made-for-TV version (ACROD) and the extended edition (ROCOR).  I noticed there were almost no litanies like I was used to hearing at other divine liturgies.
A 45-minute Liturgy is absolutely bizarre. At my home ACROD parish, the Liturgy lasts roughly an hour or a little over, but definitely not under. Reading the Gospel within the first 10 minutes boggles my mind; at that point, my ACROD parish would probably just be getting to the Gospel Entrance. We also don't skip any of the Litanies (outside of the one for the Catechumens, usually).

The Russians also tend to be the most hardcore in Orthodoxy--if there is a thing, they do it. They sing every proper possible, and just when you think the Liturgy's done, NOPE, here come's a blagodarstvennyj moleben for at least another half-hour!

Quote
2.Kneeling and sitting a lot. At the point of the consecration and the Our Father, and a few others I am forgetting, most of the congregation knelt. There were also many points at which we sat down. This paired with the streamlined liturgy almost felt like I was attending a Catholic Mass. I will note that this parish, according to their website, was established by a group of Eastern Catholics in the 30s, so perhaps there are some lingering Latinizations?
The only time people at my ACROD parish ever kneel is during Kneeling Vespers at Pentecost. At no other time during the year do we kneel.

That being said, I have been to a Romanian Orthodox parish in Austria where the congregation knelt during the Gospel reading and the Great Entrance. The priest also, for lack of a better description, bumped the bottom of the chalice on the head of every parishioner there during the Entrance.

Quote
3. On that note, the priest, deacon, and sub-deacon were all clean shaven and had closely cropped hair. I've certainly seen Orthodox priests with shorter hair, but none shaven. The priest was also wearing a roman collar under his vestments.
The Roman collar's strange (not even my priest who used to be a Roman priest before his conversion wears one now), but as others have said, having short hair and no beard is perfectly ordinary.

Quote
4.They didn't close the iconostasis at any point.
I think different jurisdictions have different rules on this.

Quote
5. Bells?
The presence of, or lack thereof?

Quote
6. The church didn't seem to have traditional iconography on the iconostasis or walls. Instead it was kind of reminiscent of 1950's Roman Catholic prayer cards with an extremely Aryan Christ and saints.
A lot of Russian churches don't either. That said, the lack of traditional iconography is saddening.

Quote
1. After Communion I noticed that there was a woman texting in front of me while the rest of her family were talking among themselves. I was sitting near the front, but I though I heard murmuring behind me as well. Out of curiosity I turned around and noticed almost everyone was talking! I found this quite irreverent. I know Orthodox are chattier than Western Christians, but I have never seen such a casual approach to taking Communion before among Orthodox. That is probably what I found the most troublesome.
That's not ACROD, that's just bad manners.

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2015, 01:13:08 AM »
Quote
3. On that note, the priest, deacon, and sub-deacon were all clean shaven and had closely cropped hair. I've certainly seen Orthodox priests with shorter hair, but none shaven. The priest was also wearing a roman collar under his vestments.
The Roman collar's strange (not even my priest who used to be a Roman priest before his conversion wears one now), but as others have said, having short hair and no beard is perfectly ordinary.

I've seen several Antiochian priests and lots of older OCA priests that will have the collar.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2015, 01:52:17 AM »
Quote
3. On that note, the priest, deacon, and sub-deacon were all clean shaven and had closely cropped hair. I've certainly seen Orthodox priests with shorter hair, but none shaven. The priest was also wearing a roman collar under his vestments.
The Roman collar's strange (not even my priest who used to be a Roman priest before his conversion wears one now), but as others have said, having short hair and no beard is perfectly ordinary.

I've seen several Antiochian priests and lots of older OCA priests that will have the collar.

Greek priests, too.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 01:52:31 AM by scamandrius »
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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2015, 04:50:41 AM »
Quote
3. On that note, the priest, deacon, and sub-deacon were all clean shaven and had closely cropped hair. I've certainly seen Orthodox priests with shorter hair, but none shaven. The priest was also wearing a roman collar under his vestments.
The Roman collar's strange (not even my priest who used to be a Roman priest before his conversion wears one now), but as others have said, having short hair and no beard is perfectly ordinary.

I've seen several Antiochian priests and lots of older OCA priests that will have the collar.

Greek priests, too.

True, although that's been changing in the past 30 years or so, in my experience. Black suits and clerical collars are gradually becoming a thing of the past.
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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2015, 05:43:53 AM »
Our priests tend to have short hair and trimmed beard but rarely completely clean-shaven. I assume It's probably cultural instead of religious choice. Suits and collars on the other hand are quite rare. I assume most wear normal clothes except on-duty so to speak when they are wearing cassock.
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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2015, 06:08:40 AM »
Luthien,

ACROD came out of the "Byzantine Catholic" church in the 1930's-1950's I think. Not all ACROD parishes are the same, either. The Byzantine Catholics are Carpathian East Slavs (like Ukrainians) who lived under the Hungarian empire for centuries and were converted to Byzantine-rite Catholicism from Orthodoxy. So in ACROD you will probably find some Western Catholic aspects that they picked up from their Byzantine Catholic "intermission". ACROD is still Orthodox though in its theology and in the overall, main, and primary features of the services.

The talking in church shouldn't happen as you describe regardless of the denomination of Christian (as long as its mainstream). I don't see it as a specific ACROD problem.
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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2015, 06:35:30 AM »
Our priests tend to have short hair and trimmed beard but rarely completely clean-shaven. I assume It's probably cultural instead of religious choice. Suits and collars on the other hand are quite rare. I assume most wear normal clothes except on-duty so to speak when they are wearing cassock.

I would rather clergy wear collars when off duty, than plain civillian dress.  In the event of a fatal car crash or toehr incident it helps to identify this person as a clergyman who can help.  Conversely, wearing the zostikon and exorason on the way to church in a non Orthodox country ensures one will not be flagged down for "chaplaincy duty."
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2015, 07:36:31 AM »

The talking in church shouldn't happen as you describe regardless of the denomination of Christian (as long as its mainstream). I don't see it as a specific ACROD problem.

Correct.  It's a human problem.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2015, 10:22:57 AM »
Please take note of our Diocesan website, http://acrod.org/ prior to making any sweeping generalizations about any one jurisdiction.

Frankly, I don't know where the parish is which the OP claims to have visited, but in my experience it is hardly the norm in 2015.

As to clerical collars and suits in public...that remains the norm in much of the GOARCH as well. Clean shaven..most clergy in ACROD these days are not.

As to art...well I could link you to hundreds of old school OCA parishes,Greek parishes..etc...even ROCOR ones with westernized, stylistic icons..Heck, across Russia you'll find plenty of the same. The immigrants who built those churches merely recreated what they were familiar with in 19th century Europe.(Including the Christ the Saviour Cathedral in Moscow, rebuilt in the 1990's.)  Some today are remodeling in more traditional styles, others hold on to the old. Would anyone build a church like that in 2015 in my diocese - NO - the diocesan building committee would not let them even if some LAY PEOPLE wanted to.

And, to be blunt, the OCA experience in Texas and the South has been far more 'intense' to use a neutral term than one still finds across the midwest and north east in the old former Metropolia parishes that used to comprise the majority of the OCA. Here are pictures from the OCA parish in my hometown which is celebrating their centennial this fall. The same sort of art can be seen in the pictures. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dormition-of-the-Virgin-Mary-Orthodox-Church/173726476005529?sk=photos_stream&ref=page_internal

Ukrainians, depending on where they came from and Romanians have practices of standing and kneeling on  parts of liturgy on Sundays as well.

I know that Schultz attended liturgy at the cathedral parish in Johnstown, PA yesterday and his reflections on his experience there bear no similarity to what the OP posted here. Perhaps he would share with us?

Otherwise, pray and MYOB.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 10:28:52 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2015, 10:36:37 AM »
I attend an ACROD parish. The priest (who is on the older side) is clean shaven, though I frankly consider that a trifling issue. You will see the same thing across many jurisdictions. Our liturgy runs about as long as the nearby GOARCH liturgy (a little over an hour), which is of course shorter than, say, a ROCOR liturgy, but elevating ROCOR practice as the gold standard for the whole church is ahistorical and silly. As far as western-style icons... what podkarpatska said. I don't know about you, but I converted to Orthodox Christianity, not Byzantinism.

Also, I should add that no one in my church would chitchat or muck around with phones during the service.
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2015, 11:06:08 AM »
I finally fulfilled an Orthodox life dream of making a pilgrimage of sorts to Christ the Saviour Cathedral in Johnstown this past Sunday.  Longtime posters know I came to Orthodoxy via the Ruthenian Catholic Church and have a great love for prostopinije.  If there was an ACROD parish close by, I would attend it without a second thought, but, as it is, the nearest one is quite a drive for me on a Sunday morning and my local OCA parish has enough Carpatho-Rusyn singing into its repertoire to keep me happy.

As such, my experience is a bit biased, as I was somewhat used to the idiosyncracies of the Rusyn Rescension, at least relative to the typical generic OCA experience in Maryland.  That being said, it was among the most beautiful and wonderful liturgies I've ever attended.  I've had a rough few months and this was a sort of homecoming for me in more ways than one, as Fr. Robert heard my confession beforehand, my first in, well, a long time.  Prior to liturgy while I was waiting in line for confession, there were a number of women praying what I think was the Akathist Hymn out loud.  Once that was completed, the choir began to sing the para-liturgical hymns, mostly in honor of the Blessed Mother, as is the custom among the Carpatho-Rusyns.  Tears welled up.  I very much miss this practice from by BCC days.

There was the kneeling during the Epiklesis and the Lord's Prayer, but not eveyone knelt, including many who were obviously lay leaders of some sort of the parish.  I knelt because, "When in Rome...." and all that. 

The doors remained open, but I've been to OCA and Greek parishes that do the same.  Contrary to popular belief around here among the busy bodies, each parish has its own typikon, like it or not.  Most line up, some don't, and as long as the local bishop allows it for whatever reason, it's none of your business. 

From start to finish, Liturgy took about 80 minutes, including sermon and after dismissal announcements, which is how long it normally takes in my OCA parish.  The only thing skipped that I recall was the litany of the catechumens.  Otherwise, everything was by the book completely and Fr. Robert did not rush his chanting and the choir certainly wasn't winning any races.  I really have no conception of people who complain about a normal parish liturgy taking less than two hours.  Cue the defensive ROCOR folks waving the Beatitudinal troparia.

It being just after old calendar Dormition, the burial shroud of Our Lady was on display for veneration on the tetrapod and rose petals were strewn about the perimeter.  The faithful were encouraged to take some home for the year. 

All-in-all, there was a palpable sense of actual joy among the congregation.  I was obviously a visitor but was not made to feel like one and not badgered about being a visitor either (something that is very important to me...it *is* possible to be made over-welcome, at least in my case).  Only busy bodies and people who don't know how to keep their minds on their own plate, so to speak, could and would find fault.  Christ was being worshipped in the Orthodox manner in this place and those who say otherwise, well...I just went to confession so I'm leaving that there.  Use your imagination, but not too much.

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2015, 11:15:52 AM »
I finally fulfilled an Orthodox life dream of making a pilgrimage of sorts to Christ the Saviour Cathedral in Johnstown this past Sunday.  Longtime posters know I came to Orthodoxy via the Ruthenian Catholic Church and have a great love for prostopinije.  If there was an ACROD parish close by, I would attend it without a second thought, but, as it is, the nearest one is quite a drive for me on a Sunday morning and my local OCA parish has enough Carpatho-Rusyn singing into its repertoire to keep me happy.

As such, my experience is a bit biased, as I was somewhat used to the idiosyncracies of the Rusyn Rescension, at least relative to the typical generic OCA experience in Maryland.  That being said, it was among the most beautiful and wonderful liturgies I've ever attended.  I've had a rough few months and this was a sort of homecoming for me in more ways than one, as Fr. Robert heard my confession beforehand, my first in, well, a long time.  Prior to liturgy while I was waiting in line for confession, there were a number of women praying what I think was the Akathist Hymn out loud.  Once that was completed, the choir began to sing the para-liturgical hymns, mostly in honor of the Blessed Mother, as is the custom among the Carpatho-Rusyns.  Tears welled up.  I very much miss this practice from by BCC days.

There was the kneeling during the Epiklesis and the Lord's Prayer, but not eveyone knelt, including many who were obviously lay leaders of some sort of the parish.  I knelt because, "When in Rome...." and all that. 

The doors remained open, but I've been to OCA and Greek parishes that do the same.  Contrary to popular belief around here among the busy bodies, each parish has its own typikon, like it or not.  Most line up, some don't, and as long as the local bishop allows it for whatever reason, it's none of your business. 

From start to finish, Liturgy took about 80 minutes, including sermon and after dismissal announcements, which is how long it normally takes in my OCA parish.  The only thing skipped that I recall was the litany of the catechumens.  Otherwise, everything was by the book completely and Fr. Robert did not rush his chanting and the choir certainly wasn't winning any races.  I really have no conception of people who complain about a normal parish liturgy taking less than two hours.  Cue the defensive ROCOR folks waving the Beatitudinal troparia.

It being just after old calendar Dormition, the burial shroud of Our Lady was on display for veneration on the tetrapod and rose petals were strewn about the perimeter.  The faithful were encouraged to take some home for the year. 

All-in-all, there was a palpable sense of actual joy among the congregation.  I was obviously a visitor but was not made to feel like one and not badgered about being a visitor either (something that is very important to me...it *is* possible to be made over-welcome, at least in my case).  Only busy bodies and people who don't know how to keep their minds on their own plate, so to speak, could and would find fault.  Christ was being worshipped in the Orthodox manner in this place and those who say otherwise, well...I just went to confession so I'm leaving that there.  Use your imagination, but not too much.
Glory to God it was everything you evidently hoped it would be.

Many Years!
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 11:16:15 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2015, 11:37:14 AM »
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Offline Luthien

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Re: Confusing first visit to ACROD church...good, bad, or just different?
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2015, 11:28:25 AM »
Thanks for all the responses.

I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't labeling what happened as "bad", rather I found it confusing given my previous experiences in attending Divine Liturgies. It just seemed to me that this one stood out as being different in many aspects from what I had seen before only in OCA and ROCOR churches. I apologize if I upset anyone by seeming to be critical.

My husband went as far as to say this must be the equivalent in Orthodoxy of a Novus Ordo-style, modern Catholic parish (comparing it to the ancient Latin liturgy abandoned after the Vatican II council). I don't really think you can make that comparison fairly. Even though this liturgy was abridged, one thing I found most heartening was that it was one of the only times I have seen a liturgy celebrated with priest, deacon, and subdeacon and many others serving the altar.

There is certainly no comparing an abbreviated, English version of the same liturgy used throughout the Orthodox Church with numerous changes and abuses that are regular at the average Novus Ordo Catholic parish. The changes after Vatican II are impossible for me to comprehend. Some Catholics in warning against converting to Orthodoxy like to say the "grass is always greener" in terms of the decline of traditional liturgy. They make the point that modernism hasn't had to chance to infiltrate the Orthodox Church the same was so it will come in time. I don't really know what to think about that.

What I do know is that the most essential elements of the ancient liturgy are still preserved in the Divine Liturgies I have had the privilege to attend so far. That's what counts. I suppose when thinking about it further I realized I had a sort of knee-jerk reaction, given my Catholic background, to this church which seemed to be more "liberal" because of the perceived differences in liturgy. But, I know Orthodox don't believe in this idea of liturgical language like the Catholic Church does. Simply being in English means nothing ultimately compared with it being in Slavonic. In fact, since Slavonic was used to the purpose of enhancing comprehension of the liturgy at the time of its development, I would argue there is perfect justification in using English with equal dignity and reverence where that is the language of the people. I'm sure I'm just preaching to the choir here, but if any traditional Catholics are reading this, they might want to consider that.

The only troubling thing was the irreverence after Communion. I have seen my share in the RCC too, so I'm not surprised. That is what will keep me away from that church in particular. I also felt worried about this being a trend in certain dioceses.

That being said, I have no problem with the general inclusiveness of Orthodox I have met in the past who have come up to talk to me during liturgy when I must have had a scared and confused look on my face or something! I'm not offended by the fact that Orthodox people seem to be alive and engaged in worship.  In fact, the universal hospitality I have received at English-speaking parishes (including this ACROD parish and its welcoming priest) has been overwhelming compared with the usual treatment of indifference one receives at Latin Mass communities often times. I have actually felt that if I stuck around it would really start to feel like home in more than one parish I have been to in that past.

My inability to stick around so far is a whole other issue...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 11:31:59 AM by Luthien »