Armenian Orthodox

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Timos:
Not too far from my house is the Holy Trinity Armenian Church. I was interested in the Liturgy so I decided to check it out.
The baradark was a mixture between Byzantine, Syrian, and Latin Tradition which was really really cool. For example, the Armenian bishop hat looks very much like a Catholic mitre and the clothing is very much Byzantine. Also, the liturgy itself has some byzantine elements like: "Let us stand aright, let us stand well....in the fear of God." etc.

What I found interesting was that there are no icons except 1 of the Virgin Mary at the altar. Also, the altar girls or 'tubirs' are a really nice touch.Correct me if I'm wrong but they can serve at the altar until they reach puberty, correct?

I also noticed that the music (before Komitas or anyone else harmonized it) had the drone/bass liek the Greek Byzantine chanting.

As far as I know, the church of Georgia which is very close in custom and language to Armenia used to be OO but then in the Middle ages was brought into communion with the EO churches.

Oh yeah and your architecture is awesome 2.

Salpy:
My priest told me something interesting about the bishop's mitre.  Prior to the crusades, Armenian bishops wore crowns, just like Greek bishops do.  However, during the crusades, the Armenian bishops saw the mitres the Catholic bishops wore and decided to wear them also.  I guess they thought they were cool looking.  The bishops didn't want to just throw out their nice crowns, however, so they passed them down to the priests.  That is why today Armenian priests wear crowns that look like the ones Greek bishops wear and Armenian bishops wear Catholic looking mitres.

I think altar girls are a late 20th century addition.  We have them at my church and I know some people think it isn't right.  You are correct that they don't continue to serve when they get to be teenagers. 

Armenian churches tend not to have as many icons as Coptic or Greek churches, but it varies from parish to parish.  The altar is supposed to have the icon of the Mother of God holding Christ.  Now and then, however, you'll see an Armenian church with a different icon above the altar.  I went to one near Boston once that had an icon of the Resurrection over the altar.  My church has about half a dozen icons besides the one above the altar.

The Georgian language is very different from Armenian, although their alphabet was invented by the same man, the Armenian saint Mesrob Mashdots.  Their architecture is somewhat similar to Armenian architecture. 

You are right that the Georgians used to be OO.  I think they rejected Chalcedon around the same time the Armenians did, during the first decade of the 6th century.  The Armenians rejected Chalcedon in the council of Dvin, and the Georgians were represented at that council, which means they either rejected it then, or had already rejected it. 

The Council of Dvin was called as a reaction to the fact that the Persian (Assyrian) Church, which had long held the christology of Theodore of Mopsuestia, had embraced Chalcedon and the tome of Leo as vindicating their position.  The Armenian Church had remained faithful to the christology of Alexandria and had accepted the Third Council, while the Persian Church had rejected it.  The Council of Dvin, in 506, anathematized both Nestorius (whom the Persian Church had embraced) and Eutyches, to show that they were not embracing the heresy of the latter.

I think it was two or three centuries later that the Georgians reversed their position and embraced Chalcedon.  I do not know why they did this, but it may have to do with the fact that the fifth council got rid of some of the more nestorian elements of Chalcedon (the three chapters) and reoriented it so it was a little more consistent with the third council.

Historically, the Armenians and Georgians have gotten along pretty well.  The Armenians in Georgia have been a significant minority there with very few problems.  However, recently, things have been a little tense.  The Georgians have been closing down or taking over Armenian churches.  Supposedly, this is being done in the name of Chalcedon, although I wonder if ethnic tension may play a role in it too.  In any event, it is not a happy situation.

Sorry for going on too long!  I don't know the answer to your musical question, as I know very little about music (except that I like listening to it.) 

Hadel:
Quote from: djrak on July 06, 2005, 08:38:19 AM

hey i'm new here and was wondering if there are any armenians here, i did come across a few armenian names.
i got attracted to the orthodox church not too long ago and discovered what a great treasure it is, and was wondering if you people know what i'm talking about, or if there's anyone out there who can relate...
peace


Welcome! I am not Armenian, however, I relate, because I have Armenian family thru marriage.... my origins are from Jordan.

Love the people and the Armenian culture.

Welcome and I hope you enjoy this forum.

In Christ,
Hadel

djrak:
Quote from: Timos on July 06, 2005, 08:50:33 PM

What I found interesting was that there are no icons except 1 of the Virgin Mary at the altar. Also, the altar girls or 'tubirs' are a really nice touch.Correct me if I'm wrong but they can serve at the altar until they reach puberty, correct?
we dont have icons like the greek orthodox do... there are paintings and images in our churches but they arent icons. Salpy, correct me if i'm wrong.

Quote

I also noticed that the music (before Komitas or anyone else harmonized it) had the drone/bass liek the Greek Byzantine chanting.
Gomidas is the man! that priest was a genius!

djrak:
Quote from: Hadel on July 07, 2005, 01:38:33 AM

Welcome! I am not Armenian, however, I relate, because I have Armenian family thru marriage.... my origins are from Jordan.

Love the people and the Armenian culture.

Welcome and I hope you enjoy this forum.

In Christ,
Hadel

Hey there Hadel, thank you for the warm welcome, Jordanian people are cool, very civilized.

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