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« Reply #90 on: July 08, 2005, 11:28:33 AM » |
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Landon77,
You have to watch what you say around here............ If I were Tikhon I would be quite offended right now. It is like you are telling him that what he has been fighting against his whole life was not necessary because he was not 100% gay and If he wanted to use that other 2.......3........4 % to be straight than he could have.
Tikhon thank you for being so brave, sorry that you have to put up with persecution on this board. Peace
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"Go out and make disciples of all nations" (Mathew 28:19)
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Anastasios
Webdespota
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Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,487
Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina
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« Reply #91 on: July 08, 2005, 11:53:56 AM » |
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Girl, There is just as much support as there is negativity here.  Usually the overly negative people get tired of us and leave after a few months. The people who stay become quite friendly. Anastasios |
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 11:54:19 AM by Anastasios »
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Please Buy My Book!Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.
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Nigula Qian Zishi
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« Reply #92 on: July 08, 2005, 01:30:47 PM » |
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Tikhon, that is NOT what I meant. I would not call your relationship with your father a homosexual relationship. I would have never thought of anyone calling it one either! I do not call my relationship with my father a straight relationship. Everything in our life should not be defined by our sexual orientation. But since I obviously confused and offended you, let me apologize and clarify.
What I am saying is that any celibate person cannot have a relationship that is a romantic relationship where you are dating but just not having sex and remain true to that vow of celibacy. That is true for homosexuals or monastics.
I never meant to infirm you cannot be friends with a co-struggler in celibacy.
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Girl
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« Reply #93 on: July 08, 2005, 01:45:07 PM » |
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Let me ask you this, if two straight people who vowed to celibacy had a none sexual relationship, would that be acceptable? Even though they made that vow?
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"Go out and make disciples of all nations" (Mathew 28:19)
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choirfiend
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« Reply #94 on: July 08, 2005, 02:16:45 PM » |
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If two people who are celibate had a romantic relationship without sexual contact, yes, I believe that goes beyond the boundaries of celibacy. It's not about just making a rule of how far one can go. That's the wrong understanding of celibacy.
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Qui cantat, bis orat
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Strelets
Стрелец
Elder
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Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 444
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« Reply #95 on: July 08, 2005, 02:32:19 PM » |
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Hmm, this is interesting. So based on what's been posted so far, it is possible for a homosexual to "inherit the Kingdom of God" so long as they do not act on their impulses? So when St. Paul writes in 1Corinthians 6:9 that "...Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals... will inherit the Kingdom of God" he is refering to those who act on their urges? This is just for my own clarification. Thanks.
For clarification, in Paul's day there wasn't a class of what was considered non-acting homosexual people. Whether you were a thief or homosexual, it was the behavior that defined you in particular instances, and not an underlying feature of your biology. If you repented and stop stealing, I'm guessing Paul wouldn't have thought of you as a thief, and likewise about homosexuality. He could have been wrong about the science of sexuality. Whether or not homosexuality is an inborn trait, I've no insight and no opinion. I consider it irrelevant, especially when that approach opens the door to justifying all manner of excesses in each of us -- a thief can blame his poor upbring, an abusive husband can blame his abusive father, a slothful individual can blame his big bones, and so on. If someone is a gay Christian can they have a partner so long as they do not do anything sexual with them?
Can I have a mistress if I don't sleep with her? Why not? Girl, the term "partner" or even "boyfriend/girlfriend" have at the very least sexual connotations. It implies an expression of sexual lust for one another which isn't shared in normal friendships. True, the biological urge itself isn't a sin, but the lustful thoughts are and it's not healthy to put yourself into a situation that'll provoke such thoughts and seriously challenge one's physical self control. |
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 02:36:51 PM by Strelets »
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"The creed is very simple, and here is what it is: to believe that there is nothing more beautiful, more courageous, and more perfect than Christ; and there not only isn't, but I tell myself with a jealous love, there cannot be." ~ Fyodor Dostoevsky
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Lystra
My real name is Karina
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I Love This
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« Reply #96 on: July 08, 2005, 02:52:40 PM » |
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I agree with choirfiend, because Girl, remember when Father said that just because you have stopped doing it, doesn't mean that it is not a part of you. You have to resist it not because it is wrong, but becuase you know it is not you. If a serial killer got out of jail, but still thought aboyut killing people, but resisted because he knew it was wrong, he would still be a serial killer because he is just doing waht he is told, and not what he knows is right. You shoul resist the temptation not because you know it is wrong, but because you know it is not you.  User is using three login names. |
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I Want to live life and love it!
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Tikhon29605
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« Reply #97 on: July 08, 2005, 06:10:31 PM » |
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Landon77,
You have to watch what you say around here............ If I were Tikhon I would be quite offended right now. It is like you are telling him that what he has been fighting against his whole life was not necessary because he was not 100% gay and If he wanted to use that other 2.......3........4 % to be straight than he could have.
Tikhon thank you for being so brave, sorry that you have to put up with persecution on this board. Peace
Offended? ROFLOL I am in NO WAY OFFENDED. I don't claim to be any authority whatsoever on human psychology or sexuality. In fact, most of what I have read actually confirms what Landon has said, that sexual orientation is somewhat of a continuum with most people not being 100% gay or 100% straight. Why would such a statement offend me? I don't get it. While I am sensitive to blantant homophobic prejudice such as the "all gay people are pedophiles" or the "gay people go out and recruit people to be gay" nonsense, I think at the same time gay people need to have a sense of proportion, a sense of humor, and not go around with a chip on their shoulder. I myself grow quite weary of the gay person who sees the need to be attention-seeking in public by constanly "coming out" everywhere, blowing a loud trumpet in public about being "gay" and "proud" of it. I'm gay, but I certainly don't blow a trumpet about it and I am not proud of it either. I think embarassed about it might be the best way to describe it. |
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Tikhon29605
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« Reply #98 on: July 08, 2005, 06:13:22 PM » |
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I would like to thank you all for your kind and supportive remarks. Again it reminds me why I am in the Orthodox Church and not on the staff of "Focus on the Family."  |
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Landon77
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Jurisdiction: OCA (Antiochian Western Orthodox in exile)
Posts: 308
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« Reply #99 on: July 08, 2005, 11:00:25 PM » |
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Landon77,
You have to watch what you say around here............ If I were Tikhon I would be quite offended right now. It is like you are telling him that what he has been fighting against his whole life was not necessary because he was not 100% gay and If he wanted to use that other 2.......3........4 % to be straight than he could have.
Tikhon thank you for being so brave, sorry that you have to put up with persecution on this board. Peace
That's not what I ment by it, and I didn't mean for it to be in any way offensive. But from what the psych. community does know, sexuality, like every thing else, works on a spectrum, it is neither black nor white. What it does mean, however, is that you can have some people that are "more homosexual" than others and "more straight" than others. |
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"How stands your mighty god? My God is stronger than he." -St. Boniface
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Sir Sundae
Jr. Member
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« Reply #100 on: July 08, 2005, 11:25:12 PM » |
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Tikhon, your posts have been very enlightening and helpful in understanding homosexuality, especially as homosexuality relates to Christianity. This has been an area of much confusion and distress for me. But your perspective eases that tension. I pray to God for your strength. Pray for me; chastity is not my strong point.
-Chuck
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Elder Paisios of the Holy Mountain:
"Let us not expect the spiritual spring if we don't first pass through the spiritual winter during which the spiritual vermin die. We mustn't expect the divine to blossom within us if the human hasn't first died."
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Tikhon29605
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« Reply #101 on: July 09, 2005, 04:15:30 PM » |
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Tikhon, your posts have been very enlightening and helpful in understanding homosexuality, especially as homosexuality relates to Christianity. This has been an area of much confusion and distress for me. But your perspective eases that tension. I pray to God for your strength. Pray for me; chastity is not my strong point.
-Chuck
The best treatment I have found for homosexuality is to confront it. Perhaps you have already done this, but I would encourage you and everyone who struggles with this passion to go to your priest in confession and just pour your soul out to him about it. And pour EVERYTHING out, especially the things that you are most ashamed of. Its quite liberating and I believe God honors it. Remember too that anything we pour out in confession cannot be held against us on the Great and Fearful Day of Judgment. If you repent and confess, it is forgiven. And God doesn't bring it up again. Hopefully, you will find a discrete and understanding priest that will listen to you and not scold. Just as an aside here, I don't think scolding is ever appropriate by the priest in confession. All it does is encourage penitents to cloak and hide their deepest sins and shames them into silence. You have to have enough trust with your Father Confessor to know that WHATEVER you confess, he will listen soberly and attentively, not interupt you with "You did WHAT?" or start finger-pointing in the middle of your confession. Fortunately I have found such a Father Confessor and it makes an ENORMOUS difference in one's spiritual life. You want to find a priest that lets you confess EVERYTHING, and who quietly and gently asks, "Is there anything else you need to confess?" before he offers you even the first word of advice or admonition. Just a few thoughts on this matter. |
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