Author Topic: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas  (Read 4763 times)

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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"Shannon,

Your dad wanted me to send you this horrible letter from our church- also sending you what my father sent back to them. He's looking for others to write as well."

I hadn't attended "our" church in over 10 years.

Below was a forwarded response to the church from her father, questioning, among other things, where the church's outrage was for lax gun control laws and ongoing wars--you know, things that actually hurt people. Attached were two official statements: one from the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops and the other from Bishop Thomas of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America. Both were in response to the recent SCOTUS decision on Obergefell v. Hodges, which gave legal recognition to same sex marriages nationwide.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shannon-deep-/you-dont-own-marriage-an-_b_7821308.html

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2015, 01:07:22 PM »
A lot of the article is very silly, but she does have a point insofar as the Orthodox Church has failed to issue nearly as strong statements against far more pervasive and corrupting phenomena in our society.

The good news is we can always count on Fr. Josiah Trenham to denounce Bruno Mars.
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Online Asteriktos

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2015, 01:12:51 PM »
I'm still chewing over the things you've said about gender and sexuality not too long back--about how our composition as humans does matter--as it relates to gender identity, gay marriage, etc. Having said that, and despite the combative tone, I think the author at the link reasonably states some things that will be hard for Orthodox to hear, but which will have to faced eventually.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2015, 01:17:16 PM »
Quote
In case you're unfamiliar about the Eastern Orthodoxy, it's like the more self-serious, somber older brother of the Catholicism.

Why the gratuitous "the" in front of "Eastern Orthodoxy" and "Catholicism"?  Honestly, I'm not outraged or offended reading this.  I feel bad for this kid.  She really seems like she has something to prove to her enlightened pals about not being one of those backward, barbaric Christians, and an unfamiliar Eastern one at that.  It's really trite, surface level stuff, not really worth addressing or debunking, and her writing (especially the attempts at being witty) leave something to be desired.  My takeaway from this has more to do with how we lose our youth than the issue of gay marriage.  She's pretty much the poster child for that kid whose questions were never answered by her priest, servants, or parents.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 01:19:24 PM »
I wonder if the bishop will answer this letter.

Two things that might be expected as answer to Shannon Deep:

1. What does "marriage" mean?
2.  What does "sacred" mean?
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If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline FinnJames

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2015, 01:39:16 PM »
Quote
In case you're unfamiliar about the Eastern Orthodoxy, it's like the more self-serious, somber older brother of the Catholicism.

Why the gratuitous "the" in front of "Eastern Orthodoxy" and "Catholicism"? 

My guess is that 'the' got left in during the process of editing the phrases 'the Orthodox Church' and 'the Catholic Church'. That's the sort of trap I fall into fairly regularly now that I do all my writing and editing on the computer.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2015, 02:00:17 PM »
Quote
In case you're unfamiliar about the Eastern Orthodoxy, it's like the more self-serious, somber older brother of the Catholicism.

Why the gratuitous "the" in front of "Eastern Orthodoxy" and "Catholicism"? 

My guess is that 'the' got left in during the process of editing the phrases 'the Orthodox Church' and 'the Catholic Church'. That's the sort of trap I fall into fairly regularly now that I do all my writing and editing on the computer.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Either way, it (along with other mistakes throughout the letter) makes her sound like this, which is not the tone you want to go for when attempting to act all enlightened and superior and lecture your former bishop.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 02:01:17 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2015, 02:19:49 PM »
I wonder if the bishop will answer this letter.


I doubt it's worth his time.  This isn't the first letter, nor will it be the last, of some layperson who thinks that they know more than the bishops.  I remember an editorial in the WaPo several months ago from a Greek Orthodox who chided his priest because he (the priest) said he was barred from the Eucharist for being in a gay marriage.  Of course, this was his interpretation of the events (the priest didn't and shouldn't have responded).  But it drew no general response from the GOARCH or any of the GOARCH bishops.  Why should this one?  Who does this little girl think she is?  She doesn't deserve a response. Let her moan and complain.
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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2015, 02:31:00 PM »
It seems she needed to prove her progressive bona fides to the world. What does she want now? A congratulatory cup of Starbucks?

For some reason I hope Bp. Thomas will write her a polite and thoughtful response, even if she doesn't deserve it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 02:31:12 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2015, 02:35:22 PM »
It seems she needed to prove her progressive bona fides to the world. What does she want now? A congratulatory cup of Starbucks?

For some reason I hope Bp. Thomas will write her a polite and thoughtful response, even if she doesn't deserve it.

Write a bishop a letter of disagreement=get free Starbucks?  I'm sure all the bishops will receive an onslaught of mail if that were the case. :)
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2015, 02:38:10 PM »
Who does this little girl think she is?  She doesn't deserve a response. Let her moan and complain.

While I have advocated this policy in particular cases in which the characters and their circumstances were known to me, I do think that, generally speaking, this attitude is a huge problem in the Church. 

Christ says that we should go after the sheep that has strayed, without telling us to discern whether or not they strayed through their own fault, even if it means leaving the ninety-nine alone.  But we are content to let the straying sheep stray off, even to destruction, having presumed it is their own problem. 

Similarly, I don't think we can always claim that this is a matter of their rejection of the gospel teachings after having been properly evangelised and taught, where we could suppose that a "shaking off of the dust" was appropriate.  Many people just don't understand why we believe what we believe, and we often do a bad job of explaining it.  Many times we don't explain it at all, we just say that's how it is and whoever doesn't like it knows where to find the door to perdition.   

I'm not sure that someone who writes an open letter to a bishop and puts it on the internet on a nationally recognised website has the best intentions.  Whether or not she does, there are many people with good intentions who feel the same way, and we really don't care about them.  We latch on to the Shannon Deeps of the world to justify our lack of concern for those who are not like us.  The "Church as Club" model is not just an "ethnic" thing.  It is a plague within the Church.   

Offline Agabus

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2015, 02:44:09 PM »
Honestly, the biggest LOL moment was the scare quotes around "church."


Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2015, 02:52:00 PM »
Who does this little girl think she is?  She doesn't deserve a response. Let her moan and complain.

While I have advocated this policy in particular cases in which the characters and their circumstances were known to me, I do think that, generally speaking, this attitude is a huge problem in the Church. 

Christ says that we should go after the sheep that has strayed, without telling us to discern whether or not they strayed through their own fault, even if it means leaving the ninety-nine alone.  But we are content to let the straying sheep stray off, even to destruction, having presumed it is their own problem. 

Similarly, I don't think we can always claim that this is a matter of their rejection of the gospel teachings after having been properly evangelised and taught, where we could suppose that a "shaking off of the dust" was appropriate.  Many people just don't understand why we believe what we believe, and we often do a bad job of explaining it.  Many times we don't explain it at all, we just say that's how it is and whoever doesn't like it knows where to find the door to perdition.   

I'm not sure that someone who writes an open letter to a bishop and puts it on the internet on a nationally recognised website has the best intentions.  Whether or not she does, there are many people with good intentions who feel the same way, and we really don't care about them.  We latch on to the Shannon Deeps of the world to justify our lack of concern for those who are not like us.  The "Church as Club" model is not just an "ethnic" thing.  It is a plague within the Church.

I think you analyze the situation correctly, though the solution is not so obvious.  But what of the sheep who do not wish to be found?  Perhaps they will have a prodigal son moment and come to themselves and seek out their father.   I guess it could be a both..and, where the Church continues to extend Her hand and hope that the prodigal comes to his senses.
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2015, 02:53:49 PM »
Nope folks don't worry there no agenda by the LGBT activists crowd and the progressives to change the Orthodox church at all to fit their Ideology, none at all ::sarcasm::  :D

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2015, 03:05:33 PM »

The good news is we can always count on Fr. Josiah Trenham to denounce Bruno Mars.


Look, I get that you have an axe to grind with this priest, but you're sounding just as ridiculous as when Maria uses every thread to lash out against GMOs and Monsanto. 
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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2015, 03:47:36 PM »
I think you analyze the situation correctly, though the solution is not so obvious.  But what of the sheep who do not wish to be found? 

How do we know that without going out and finding them so that they call tell us to go to hell (figuratively or otherwise)? 

Quote
Perhaps they will have a prodigal son moment and come to themselves and seek out their father.
 

Perhaps.  But we should remember what it was the prodigal son left in order to have the feeling within himself that he could go back.  Do our communities have that?  Will we have that to offer those who want to return?   

Quote
I guess it could be a both..and, where the Church continues to extend Her hand and hope that the prodigal comes to his senses.

That is necessary.  But it is also necessary to replace the older brother, who seems to run everything and be everyone in our communities, with the father who forgives liberally and also with those who celebrate repentance and return. 

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2015, 03:51:41 PM »
Nope folks don't worry there no agenda by the LGBT activists crowd and the progressives to change the Orthodox church at all to fit their Ideology, none at all ::sarcasm::  :D

The Church has survived pagans, iconoclasts and arians. What makes you think a bunch of hipsters even stand a chance?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 03:51:50 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2015, 03:56:13 PM »
Nope folks don't worry there no agenda by the LGBT activists crowd and the progressives to change the Orthodox church at all to fit their Ideology, none at all ::sarcasm::  :D

The Church has survived pagans, iconoclasts and arians. What makes you think a bunch of hipsters even stand a chance?

They won't stand a chance because Christ and his church will prevail still however these hipsters got the backing of the Political class and the state in general as well as pop culture such as Hollywood and the music industry so just because they sound "loving" and "tolerant" we shouldn't take it lightly with what they can do to us to make us all "tolerant" of their agenda that's all I'm saying.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2015, 06:21:25 PM »
This is a really badly-crafted piece. But it is from the Bloggington Post.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2015, 06:30:17 PM »
Who takes an article from Huff Post seriously anyway ?

As a gay man, I ask Shannon to get over herself. She is not Christian anymore, she is not Eastern Orthodox anymore. So why does she care about what the Church thinks or does ? Goodness, it is like a guy breaking up with his girlfriend, but still passes by her house every night checking if she got some company  ::)

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2015, 06:38:49 PM »
Who takes an article from Huff Post seriously anyway ?

As a gay man, I ask Shannon to get over herself. She is not Christian anymore, she is not Eastern Orthodox anymore. So why does she care about what the Church thinks or does ? Goodness, it is like a guy breaking up with his girlfriend, but still passes by her house every night checking if she got some company  ::)

You know that my point in other threads concerning LGBT activists(not the average folks), why the agenda? I mean look this girl isn't even Christian anymore never mind Eastern Orthodox so Why try to change the Church? It like someone who broke up with their ex-lover but tells the person who they should date or how they should live. Raylight I may not always agree with you but you made a excellent observation

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2015, 06:40:47 PM »
Quote
Who takes an article from Huff Post seriously anyway ?


Not to diverge into politics but Neoliberals?

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2015, 07:01:54 PM »
Well lookie there! My bishop got a letter! Bishop Thomas is a wonderful bishop, and I think he probably will respond to her without feeling the need to post it on Huffington Post.

That point aside, I think this is the very stereotypical situation of small town girl moves to big city, thinks she is so much more mature now and world-savy, and with her newfound independence and knowledge, feels that she can lecture all those backwards people that she grew up with about how primitive they are.

*YAWN*

If I wanted to rehash that story, I would go watch Coyote Ugly. The girls were prettier in that version.

God bless!

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2015, 07:13:26 PM »
The lack of self-awareness* in this thread is staggering. Offensive even. Or pitiable.


* Individually but also collectively (Orthodoxies)

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2015, 07:26:58 PM »
The lack of self-awareness* in this thread is staggering. Offensive even. Or pitiable.


* Individually but also collectively (Orthodoxies)
Or perhaps there is just a collective and individual weariness of being lectured about how we are horrible bigots. The same article worded different ways is published by HuffPo about 8 times a day and that doesn't even include all the other "news" outlets.

It's like being at work and constantly hearing from Baltimore Ravens fans non-stop. Eventually, the only response I give is an eyeroll.
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2015, 07:57:46 PM »
Quote
Or perhaps there is just a collective and individual weariness of being lectured about how we are horrible bigots. The same article worded different ways is published by HuffPo about 8 times a day and that doesn't even include all the other "news" outlets.

It's like being at work and constantly hearing from Baltimore Ravens fans non-stop. Eventually, the only response I give is an eyeroll.

+100 thanks for wording it in a better and more rational way then I could ever word it. There definitely a weariness from being lectured about how it the Christians that are such "evil bigots" who won't bend over backwards and just take it no pun intended. it true Huffpost has really beaten this issue into dust like hello Huffpost there starving children, ISIS, sex slavery and such stuff and they obsess over Gay Issues 24/7. Will the Huffpost crowd say this stuff to Muslims like face to face like they would any stripe of Christian they come across?

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2015, 08:00:41 PM »
Quote
It's like being at work and constantly hearing from Baltimore Ravens fans non-stop. Eventually, the only response I give is an eyeroll.

are they as bad as Raiders fans?

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2015, 08:04:02 PM »
Quote
It's like being at work and constantly hearing from Baltimore Ravens fans non-stop. Eventually, the only response I give is an eyeroll.

are they as bad as Raiders fans?
To a Steelers fan such as myself, there is nothing worse than the Ravens. It is as if Satan himself incarnated into a football team and prowls about, seeking whom he may devour.
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Offline homedad76

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2015, 08:06:43 PM »
Yeah she should have stopped at "I'm not an Orthodox Christian anymore. Maybe that automatically disqualifies me from this conversation" because... yeah it kind of does.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2015, 08:14:54 PM »
Quote
It's like being at work and constantly hearing from Baltimore Ravens fans non-stop. Eventually, the only response I give is an eyeroll.

are they as bad as Raiders fans?

This is a rhetorical question, right?
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2015, 08:17:43 PM »
Quote
It's like being at work and constantly hearing from Baltimore Ravens fans non-stop. Eventually, the only response I give is an eyeroll.

are they as bad as Raiders fans?

This is a rhetorical question, right?

Raiders fan?

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2015, 08:18:23 PM »
Quote
Who takes an article from Huff Post seriously anyway ?


Not to diverge into politics but Neoliberals?

I wonder if you have any idea what that means.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2015, 08:25:17 PM »
Quote
It's like being at work and constantly hearing from Baltimore Ravens fans non-stop. Eventually, the only response I give is an eyeroll.

are they as bad as Raiders fans?

This is a rhetorical question, right?



Raiders fan?

God, no.  Chiefs fan.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2015, 08:27:20 PM »
The lack of self-awareness* in this thread is staggering. Offensive even. Or pitiable.


* Individually but also collectively (Orthodoxies)

It pales in comparison to the lack of self awareness in the letter itself.  As I said, however, that is evidently our fault as well.  If this young lady left the Church with the impression that we are pretty much a kitschy version of Catholicism sans than Pope Frank charm, that the Bible justifies what she thinks it justifies, and that we're heading for irrelevance if we don't get on board with the gay marriage thing, then we failed her miserably.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2015, 08:29:51 PM »
Quote
Who takes an article from Huff Post seriously anyway ?


Not to diverge into politics but Neoliberals?

I wonder if you have any idea what that means.

Originally Neoliberalism was the third way or middle way between Socialist planning and the old Classical Liberalism but in the 1980's it meant something related to Pincochet economic reforms in Chile after all it was the neoliberals who championed free trade as some kind of Utopia that would help the poor and it was the Clinton administration that pushed NAFTA Free trade and deregulation of the banking system by doing away with Glass-Steagal that allowed the big banks to merge. Culturally they are closer to Libertarianism concerning abortion and Gay marriage. Huffington Post seem to champion maybe not all of this but a lot of it after all they are cheerleaders for the Clintons.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2015, 08:31:26 PM »
Quote
It's like being at work and constantly hearing from Baltimore Ravens fans non-stop. Eventually, the only response I give is an eyeroll.

are they as bad as Raiders fans?

This is a rhetorical question, right?



Raiders fan?

God, no.  Chiefs fan.

okay yeah it just I realize after family going to a Raiders game how fanatical that they are. beating people up, jumping people in the restroom and all that. so I mean who can top that?

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2015, 08:41:03 PM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'  Namely, a regurgitation of the politics du jour served up with a heaping plate of non-introspection.

I'd say she's ready for the OCNet!  ;)

Well, I think she is right: the Church needs to bring up more pressing issues, like:

- Alcoholism and Drug Abuse
- The Over-prescription of Narcotics and Medications
- Addiction to electronics and 'social media'
- Children denied nuclear families and their own parents
- Pornography addiction
- Over-diagnosis of ADD
- Depression epidemic
- Plummeting birthrate
- Loneliness
- Escalating mental illness
- The demise of adulthood and emotional stability

I think we need to draw attention to the fact that if the world's ways are so much better, why are we whining all the time?  Why are people complaining incessantly about how tough life is and how much they really need 'medical marijuana' to get through the day?

If life is so bad we need to get stoned and 'party' every weekend, what does this say about following the same drumbeat demanding 'gay marriages,' no-fault divorce, parent swapping, 'attraction,' and all the other stupid stuff we get bombarded with so often it doesn't seem ludicrous anymore?  We've never been so rich... and so miserable.  Yes, we are more miserable now than we were in the Great Depression, if you factor in how much more we have and yet how little it seems to matter.

Now is the time to start challenging the world on its own terms: if you fail to make people happy with your 'social progress,' are you willing to admit it?

Our schools are failing each year, and yet no one gets fired.  Our inner cities are cages of despair, yet the same clowns get elected year after year to do nothing.  Our universities have tenure, yet the students are dumber (I hear this from supervisors all the time, how lazy and thoughtless the new graduates are).

I think the Church should point out that we have a way that is intentionally different from the way of the world, because we are supposed to be the refuge from the world for the broken and wounded.  The world kills, and we heal.  If we become the world, then we become part of the problem.

We don't even need to get into political topics like 'gun control' or 'social justice,' when there are plenty of more fundamental problems: people are doing whatever they want, and they are miserable.

How many of the political problems we constantly hear about would be instantly cured if people heeded the Church's admonishments of humility and self-control, love and generosity?

I think the world dishes out a lot of criticism, but does not sit well with an honest critique.  That's where we come in... 

You can't find wisdom in the mirror.

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2015, 08:49:58 PM »
I wonder if the bishop will answer this letter.


I doubt it's worth his time.  This isn't the first letter, nor will it be the last, of some layperson who thinks that they know more than the bishops.  I remember an editorial in the WaPo several months ago from a Greek Orthodox who chided his priest because he (the priest) said he was barred from the Eucharist for being in a gay marriage.  Of course, this was his interpretation of the events (the priest didn't and shouldn't have responded).  But it drew no general response from the GOARCH or any of the GOARCH bishops.  Why should this one? Who does this little girl think she is?  She doesn't deserve a response. Let her moan and complain.

I imagine God loves this little girl just as much as the Bishop, maybe more, so that is more than enough of who she is.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 08:52:52 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2015, 08:50:43 PM »
Bishop Thomas, YOU DON'T OWN LOVE!!!!

But Lady Gaga does apparently  :P
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2015, 09:13:48 PM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'  Namely, a regurgitation of the politics du jour served up with a heaping plate of non-introspection.

I'd say she's ready for the OCNet!  ;)

Well, I think she is right: the Church needs to bring up more pressing issues, like:

- Alcoholism and Drug Abuse
- The Over-prescription of Narcotics and Medications
- Addiction to electronics and 'social media'
- Children denied nuclear families and their own parents
- Pornography addiction
- Over-diagnosis of ADD
- Depression epidemic
- Plummeting birthrate
- Loneliness
- Escalating mental illness
- The demise of adulthood and emotional stability

I think we need to draw attention to the fact that if the world's ways are so much better, why are we whining all the time?  Why are people complaining incessantly about how tough life is and how much they really need 'medical marijuana' to get through the day?

If life is so bad we need to get stoned and 'party' every weekend, what does this say about following the same drumbeat demanding 'gay marriages,' no-fault divorce, parent swapping, 'attraction,' and all the other stupid stuff we get bombarded with so often it doesn't seem ludicrous anymore?  We've never been so rich... and so miserable.  Yes, we are more miserable now than we were in the Great Depression, if you factor in how much more we have and yet how little it seems to matter.

Now is the time to start challenging the world on its own terms: if you fail to make people happy with your 'social progress,' are you willing to admit it?

Our schools are failing each year, and yet no one gets fired.  Our inner cities are cages of despair, yet the same clowns get elected year after year to do nothing.  Our universities have tenure, yet the students are dumber (I hear this from supervisors all the time, how lazy and thoughtless the new graduates are).

I think the Church should point out that we have a way that is intentionally different from the way of the world, because we are supposed to be the refuge from the world for the broken and wounded.  The world kills, and we heal.  If we become the world, then we become part of the problem.

We don't even need to get into political topics like 'gun control' or 'social justice,' when there are plenty of more fundamental problems: people are doing whatever they want, and they are miserable.

How many of the political problems we constantly hear about would be instantly cured if people heeded the Church's admonishments of humility and self-control, love and generosity?

I think the world dishes out a lot of criticism, but does not sit well with an honest critique.  That's where we come in... 



While I agree 100% Father and you hit it out of the Park with a homerun (yet again) I feel those issues are being used as red hearings to justify pressuring the church to affirm SSA and eventually Gay Marriage as a Orthodox Christian sacrament like for example someone like this girl will day "The Church only cares about Homosexuality and Abortion, while not these issues they should marry gays". Also Father I respect you but where do we draw the line of bringing those issues listed to light without being Social Justice Warriors only while forgetting Christ and his Church as a true salvation for the people souls who need it?

Offline JTLoganville

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2015, 09:28:32 PM »
I think you analyze the situation correctly, though the solution is not so obvious.  But what of the sheep who do not wish to be found?

But this is one who merely appears to be a sheep who is intent on attacking the Shepherd.

Mark 7 has something to say about their ilk.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2015, 09:31:41 PM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'  Namely, a regurgitation of the politics du jour served up with a heaping plate of non-introspection.

I'd say she's ready for the OCNet!  ;)

Well, I think she is right: the Church needs to bring up more pressing issues, like:

- Alcoholism and Drug Abuse
- The Over-prescription of Narcotics and Medications
- Addiction to electronics and 'social media'
- Children denied nuclear families and their own parents
- Pornography addiction
- Over-diagnosis of ADD
- Depression epidemic
- Plummeting birthrate
- Loneliness
- Escalating mental illness
- The demise of adulthood and emotional stability

I think we need to draw attention to the fact that if the world's ways are so much better, why are we whining all the time?  Why are people complaining incessantly about how tough life is and how much they really need 'medical marijuana' to get through the day?

If life is so bad we need to get stoned and 'party' every weekend, what does this say about following the same drumbeat demanding 'gay marriages,' no-fault divorce, parent swapping, 'attraction,' and all the other stupid stuff we get bombarded with so often it doesn't seem ludicrous anymore?  We've never been so rich... and so miserable.  Yes, we are more miserable now than we were in the Great Depression, if you factor in how much more we have and yet how little it seems to matter.

Now is the time to start challenging the world on its own terms: if you fail to make people happy with your 'social progress,' are you willing to admit it?

Our schools are failing each year, and yet no one gets fired.  Our inner cities are cages of despair, yet the same clowns get elected year after year to do nothing.  Our universities have tenure, yet the students are dumber (I hear this from supervisors all the time, how lazy and thoughtless the new graduates are).

I think the Church should point out that we have a way that is intentionally different from the way of the world, because we are supposed to be the refuge from the world for the broken and wounded.  The world kills, and we heal.  If we become the world, then we become part of the problem.

We don't even need to get into political topics like 'gun control' or 'social justice,' when there are plenty of more fundamental problems: people are doing whatever they want, and they are miserable.

How many of the political problems we constantly hear about would be instantly cured if people heeded the Church's admonishments of humility and self-control, love and generosity?

I think the world dishes out a lot of criticism, but does not sit well with an honest critique.  That's where we come in... 



I think someone (maybe Mor) said make this man a bishop.  Agreed.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2015, 09:37:32 PM »
All it takes is my endorsement  ;)
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2015, 09:40:41 PM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'  Namely, a regurgitation of the politics du jour served up with a heaping plate of non-introspection.

I'd say she's ready for the OCNet!  ;)

Well, I think she is right: the Church needs to bring up more pressing issues, like:

- Alcoholism and Drug Abuse
- The Over-prescription of Narcotics and Medications
- Addiction to electronics and 'social media'
- Children denied nuclear families and their own parents
- Pornography addiction
- Over-diagnosis of ADD
- Depression epidemic
- Plummeting birthrate
- Loneliness
- Escalating mental illness
- The demise of adulthood and emotional stability

I think we need to draw attention to the fact that if the world's ways are so much better, why are we whining all the time?  Why are people complaining incessantly about how tough life is and how much they really need 'medical marijuana' to get through the day?

If life is so bad we need to get stoned and 'party' every weekend, what does this say about following the same drumbeat demanding 'gay marriages,' no-fault divorce, parent swapping, 'attraction,' and all the other stupid stuff we get bombarded with so often it doesn't seem ludicrous anymore?  We've never been so rich... and so miserable.  Yes, we are more miserable now than we were in the Great Depression, if you factor in how much more we have and yet how little it seems to matter.

Now is the time to start challenging the world on its own terms: if you fail to make people happy with your 'social progress,' are you willing to admit it?

Our schools are failing each year, and yet no one gets fired.  Our inner cities are cages of despair, yet the same clowns get elected year after year to do nothing.  Our universities have tenure, yet the students are dumber (I hear this from supervisors all the time, how lazy and thoughtless the new graduates are).

I think the Church should point out that we have a way that is intentionally different from the way of the world, because we are supposed to be the refuge from the world for the broken and wounded.  The world kills, and we heal.  If we become the world, then we become part of the problem.

We don't even need to get into political topics like 'gun control' or 'social justice,' when there are plenty of more fundamental problems: people are doing whatever they want, and they are miserable.

How many of the political problems we constantly hear about would be instantly cured if people heeded the Church's admonishments of humility and self-control, love and generosity?

I think the world dishes out a lot of criticism, but does not sit well with an honest critique.  That's where we come in... 



I think someone (maybe Mor) said make this man a bishop.  Agreed.

It was MOR and he right about Father G should be a bishop.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2015, 09:58:40 PM »
I think someone (maybe Mor) said make this man a bishop.  Agreed.

It was MOR and he right about Father G should be a bishop.

On one condition: I get the boot...

You can't find wisdom in the mirror.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2015, 10:05:09 PM »
I think someone (maybe Mor) said make this man a bishop.  Agreed.

It was MOR and he right about Father G should be a bishop.

On one condition: I get the boot...



lol can you imagine showing up to give a homily looking like that? jaws would hit the floor like a cartoon scene  :D

Offline Orual

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2015, 10:08:27 PM »
Quote
In case you're unfamiliar about the Eastern Orthodoxy, it's like the more self-serious, somber older brother of the Catholicism.

Why the gratuitous "the" in front of "Eastern Orthodoxy" and "Catholicism"? 

My guess is that 'the' got left in during the process of editing the phrases 'the Orthodox Church' and 'the Catholic Church'. That's the sort of trap I fall into fairly regularly now that I do all my writing and editing on the computer.

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Either way, it (along with other mistakes throughout the letter) makes her sound like this, which is not the tone you want to go for when attempting to act all enlightened and superior and lecture your former bishop.

I thought she sounded more like this.
He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

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Offline Bob2

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2015, 10:20:39 PM »
Song appropriate to the Thread Title, Klaus Nomi's cover of Lesley Gore's 1964 hit "You Don't Own Me" : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Yrg9xNSS0
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 10:29:07 PM by Bob2 »

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2015, 11:01:02 PM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'
Fr. what makes you think that?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 11:01:09 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2015, 11:15:53 PM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'
Fr. what makes you think that?

This is a really badly-crafted piece.
You can't find wisdom in the mirror.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2015, 11:34:38 PM »
[/size][/font]

LOL! he is hilarious...the tooth routine had me dying in laughter
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2015, 11:38:34 PM »
[/size][/font]

LOL! he is hilarious...the tooth routine had me dying in laughter





« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 11:42:47 PM by FatherGiryus »
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2015, 12:04:26 AM »
[/size][/font]

LOL! he is hilarious...the tooth routine had me dying in laughter







yikes vermin still running for office? he like 1984 on steroids, l remember reading about him in 2008 (depressing campaign year) and thought is this a prank?

Offline Timon

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2015, 08:37:05 AM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'  Namely, a regurgitation of the politics du jour served up with a heaping plate of non-introspection.

I'd say she's ready for the OCNet!  ;)

Well, I think she is right: the Church needs to bring up more pressing issues, like:

- Alcoholism and Drug Abuse
- The Over-prescription of Narcotics and Medications
- Addiction to electronics and 'social media'
- Children denied nuclear families and their own parents
- Pornography addiction
- Over-diagnosis of ADD
- Depression epidemic
- Plummeting birthrate
- Loneliness
- Escalating mental illness
- The demise of adulthood and emotional stability

I think we need to draw attention to the fact that if the world's ways are so much better, why are we whining all the time?  Why are people complaining incessantly about how tough life is and how much they really need 'medical marijuana' to get through the day?

If life is so bad we need to get stoned and 'party' every weekend, what does this say about following the same drumbeat demanding 'gay marriages,' no-fault divorce, parent swapping, 'attraction,' and all the other stupid stuff we get bombarded with so often it doesn't seem ludicrous anymore?  We've never been so rich... and so miserable.  Yes, we are more miserable now than we were in the Great Depression, if you factor in how much more we have and yet how little it seems to matter.

Now is the time to start challenging the world on its own terms: if you fail to make people happy with your 'social progress,' are you willing to admit it?

Our schools are failing each year, and yet no one gets fired.  Our inner cities are cages of despair, yet the same clowns get elected year after year to do nothing.  Our universities have tenure, yet the students are dumber (I hear this from supervisors all the time, how lazy and thoughtless the new graduates are).

I think the Church should point out that we have a way that is intentionally different from the way of the world, because we are supposed to be the refuge from the world for the broken and wounded.  The world kills, and we heal.  If we become the world, then we become part of the problem.

We don't even need to get into political topics like 'gun control' or 'social justice,' when there are plenty of more fundamental problems: people are doing whatever they want, and they are miserable.

How many of the political problems we constantly hear about would be instantly cured if people heeded the Church's admonishments of humility and self-control, love and generosity?

I think the world dishes out a lot of criticism, but does not sit well with an honest critique.  That's where we come in... 



Fr. Giryus, thank you for this response!
Even if we have thousands of acts of great virtue to our credit, our confidence in being heard must be based on God's mercy and His love for men. Even if we stand at the very summit of virtue, it is by mercy that we shall be saved.

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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2015, 03:39:46 PM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'
Fr. what makes you think that?

This is a really badly-crafted piece.
I meant the higher education part.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2015, 03:43:25 PM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'
Fr. what makes you think that?

This is a really badly-crafted piece.
I meant the higher education part.

So did I.

You can't find wisdom in the mirror.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Huff Post: You Don't Own Marriage: An Open Letter to Bishop Thomas
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2015, 04:29:46 PM »
Well, I skimmed the article, and it sounds like what we have all come to expect from years of 'higher education.'
Fr. what makes you think that?

This is a really badly-crafted piece.
I meant the higher education part.

So did I.



I guess the education sucks more than I thought...