Author Topic: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love  (Read 956 times)

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Offline Asteriktos

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Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« on: July 18, 2015, 04:59:02 PM »
So about joy, faith, hope and love: for someone who cannot experience one (or more) of these to any great degree, how does living the 'life in Christ' change the situation? Or does it? If it does, does it make the negatives/hollowness of these experiences less important and problematic as spiritual progress is made and communion with God grows? Does grace 'fill in the gaps chasms' that nature left? Or do things stay roughly the same, but one learns to live with it in a healthier and more stable way? All or none or other?

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2015, 06:16:52 PM »
So about joy, faith, hope and love: for someone who cannot experience one (or more) of these to any great degree, how does living the 'life in Christ' change the situation? Or does it? If it does, does it make the negatives/hollowness of these experiences less important and problematic as spiritual progress is made and communion with God grows? Does grace 'fill in the gaps chasms' that nature left? Or do things stay roughly the same, but one learns to live with it in a healthier and more stable way? All or none or other?

What do you mean, "cannot"? 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2015, 06:17:55 PM »
The most basic level of being is love.  You build all others (joy, faith, and hope) on this fact.  And it is a work both of grace and your own being.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Alxandra

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2015, 07:02:53 PM »
Lord have mercy. Don't lose hope and keep praying :)

"God is a fire that warms and kindles the heart and inward parts. Hence, if we feel in our hearts the cold which comes from the devil—for the devil is cold—let us call on the Lord. He will come to warm our hearts with perfect love, not only for Him but also for our neighbor, and the cold of him who hates the good will flee before the heat of His countenance."
St Seraphim of Sarov
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 07:18:57 PM by Alxandra »
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2015, 08:52:00 PM »
Love is love, sometimes with a hashtag.

But charity is something inherently Christian.

mid-12c., "benevolence for the poor," from Old French charité "(Christian) charity, mercy, compassion; alms; charitable foundation" (12c., Old North French carité), from Latin caritatem (nominative caritas) "costliness, esteem, affection" (in Vulgate often used as translation of Greek agape "love" -- especially Christian love of fellow man -- perhaps to avoid the sexual suggestion of Latin amor)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 08:52:19 PM by lovesupreme »

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2015, 08:52:20 PM »
What do you mean, "cannot"?

Regarding the 'cannot,' that's part of what I'm asking about I suppose. Supposing to begin that a person grants the existence of such problems, I'm curious as to whether various Orthodox would see it as a 'cannot' in the same way that 'people cannot fly by flapping their arms,' or more like 'so-and-so cannot lift 100 lbs. over their head.' In the second case there is the possibility for things to change, and after going through some effort it may no longer a 'cannot.' With the first one, it seems vanishingly unlikely barring some miracle. In the second case you can attack the thing directly, while with the first one you'd have to work around the limitation.

The most basic level of being is love.  You build all others (joy, faith, and hope) on this fact.  And it is a work both of grace and your own being.

I suppose this relates to the 'cannot' stuff from above, but what do we do with, say, a narcissistic sociopath, who might seem 'unable to love' (except perhaps themselves, though whether this qualifies as love is debatable I think--or at the least it doesn't seem to me close to the same type of love that St. Paul talked about in 1 Cor. 13, or Jesus in the Gospels). Suppose someone has a problem with that, and it does serve as the foundation or most basic level--how then might God help by grace to change things?

Lord have mercy. Don't lose hope and keep praying :)

"God is a fire that warms and kindles the heart and inward parts. Hence, if we feel in our hearts the cold which comes from the devil—for the devil is cold—let us call on the Lord. He will come to warm our hearts with perfect love, not only for Him but also for our neighbor, and the cold of him who hates the good will flee before the heat of His countenance."
St Seraphim of Sarov

Thank you, and a very nice passage! :)

Offline Ich Will

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2015, 05:38:14 AM »
What do you mean, "cannot"?

(...)or more like 'so-and-so cannot lift 100 lbs. over their head.' In the second case there is the possibility for things to change, and after going through some effort it may no longer a 'cannot.' With the first one, it seems vanishingly unlikely barring some miracle. In the second case you can attack the thing directly, while with the first one you'd have to work around the limitation.

It's like that son! You have to put an effort into this things. To train them, to pursue them.

"You are what you consume."

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2015, 01:56:09 PM »
What do you mean, "cannot"?

(...)or more like 'so-and-so cannot lift 100 lbs. over their head.' In the second case there is the possibility for things to change, and after going through some effort it may no longer a 'cannot.' With the first one, it seems vanishingly unlikely barring some miracle. In the second case you can attack the thing directly, while with the first one you'd have to work around the limitation.

It's like that son! You have to put an effort into this things. To train them, to pursue them.

"You are what you consume."

What is it with you and calling people "son", Dan-Romania? 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Arachne

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2015, 02:07:48 PM »
What do you mean, "cannot"?

(...)or more like 'so-and-so cannot lift 100 lbs. over their head.' In the second case there is the possibility for things to change, and after going through some effort it may no longer a 'cannot.' With the first one, it seems vanishingly unlikely barring some miracle. In the second case you can attack the thing directly, while with the first one you'd have to work around the limitation.

It's like that son! You have to put an effort into this things. To train them, to pursue them.

"You are what you consume."

What is it with you and calling people "son", Dan-Romania?

God complex?
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox ~

Offline Ich Will

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2015, 03:31:08 PM »
What do you mean, "cannot"?

(...)or more like 'so-and-so cannot lift 100 lbs. over their head.' In the second case there is the possibility for things to change, and after going through some effort it may no longer a 'cannot.' With the first one, it seems vanishingly unlikely barring some miracle. In the second case you can attack the thing directly, while with the first one you'd have to work around the limitation.

It's like that son! You have to put an effort into this things. To train them, to pursue them.

"You are what you consume."

What is it with you and calling people "son", Dan-Romania?

God complex?

Ich bin Gott

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2015, 05:52:53 PM »
What do you mean, "cannot"?

(...)or more like 'so-and-so cannot lift 100 lbs. over their head.' In the second case there is the possibility for things to change, and after going through some effort it may no longer a 'cannot.' With the first one, it seems vanishingly unlikely barring some miracle. In the second case you can attack the thing directly, while with the first one you'd have to work around the limitation.

It's like that son! You have to put an effort into this things. To train them, to pursue them.

"You are what you consume."

What is it with you and calling people "son", Dan-Romania?

God complex?

Ich bin Gott

Du bist dumm.
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2015, 07:28:29 PM »
I suppose this relates to the 'cannot' stuff from above, but what do we do with, say, a narcissistic sociopath, who might seem 'unable to love' (except perhaps themselves, though whether this qualifies as love is debatable I think--or at the least it doesn't seem to me close to the same type of love that St. Paul talked about in 1 Cor. 13, or Jesus in the Gospels). Suppose someone has a problem with that, and it does serve as the foundation or most basic level--how then might God help by grace to change things?

Well, technically, sociopaths cannot feel guilt.  But they can love, and they can be managed to learn to love, even if it is "guiltless".  To get them to be "selfless" is difficult, but can be learned.  It just needs a form of dedication.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Ich Will

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2015, 09:59:36 AM »
What do you mean, "cannot"?

(...)or more like 'so-and-so cannot lift 100 lbs. over their head.' In the second case there is the possibility for things to change, and after going through some effort it may no longer a 'cannot.' With the first one, it seems vanishingly unlikely barring some miracle. In the second case you can attack the thing directly, while with the first one you'd have to work around the limitation.

It's like that son! You have to put an effort into this things. To train them, to pursue them.

"You are what you consume."

What is it with you and calling people "son", Dan-Romania?

God complex?

Ich bin Gott

Du bist dumm.

Ich bin dein Gott.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Joy, Faith, Hope, and Love
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2015, 11:40:08 AM »
Ich will,

You are on post-moderation for multiple account registrations.  I will be recommending your banning along with your other usernames.  Your continued registration and spamming of our boards will not be accepted.

Everyone else, let's get back on topic.

Mina
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.