Author Topic: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry  (Read 926 times)

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Offline Cyrillic

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On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« on: July 17, 2015, 02:37:24 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 02:48:39 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline Arachne

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2015, 02:52:51 PM »
You had to work to get to the honey.

Please, don't make us picture you working to get the honey.

Breaking a sweat, even. :D

But, however modern classicists want to romanticise things, the Romans themselves actually didn't believe that erotica belongs only in the written word.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2015, 02:56:05 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb

I have that edition.  Whenever I teach Catullus to my students I have to gloss some of the more naughty words in a way that allows them to realize the meaning without having to just say it out loud. 
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2015, 02:57:56 PM »
You had to work to get to the honey.

Please, don't make us picture you working to get the honey.

Breaking a sweat, even. :D

But, however modern classicists want to romanticise things, the Romans themselves actually didn't believe that erotica belongs only in the written word.

Don't stop there. It was even on coins!
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2015, 02:58:54 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb

I have that edition.  Whenever I teach Catullus to my students I have to gloss some of the more naughty words in a way that allows them to realize the meaning without having to just say it out loud.
Puritanism extends even to academia?
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2015, 03:02:49 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb

I have that edition.  Whenever I teach Catullus to my students I have to gloss some of the more naughty words in a way that allows them to realize the meaning without having to just say it out loud.

Ah, I think the uncensored version really motivates pupils to learn their Latin.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 03:08:57 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline scamandrius

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2015, 03:07:06 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb

I have that edition.  Whenever I teach Catullus to my students I have to gloss some of the more naughty words in a way that allows them to realize the meaning without having to just say it out loud.

Beats the point of reading it, I think.

.

No, we still do get into the "meaning" but for some of my students, they'll just giggle like like little children and then they tell their parents, then I get fired.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2015, 03:08:59 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb

I have that edition.  Whenever I teach Catullus to my students I have to gloss some of the more naughty words in a way that allows them to realize the meaning without having to just say it out loud.
Puritanism extends even to academia?

To an extent, yes.  I'm not a puritan, but a lot of my students' parents are.  Since I'm at a private school, I have to toe the line at times.  Fortunately, the students whom I teach at the upper levels where this material could be studied are the ones who wouldn't care or encourage me.  Still, I have to toe a line.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2015, 03:10:16 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb

I have that edition.  Whenever I teach Catullus to my students I have to gloss some of the more naughty words in a way that allows them to realize the meaning without having to just say it out loud.

Ah, I think the uncensored version really motivates pupils to learn their Latin.

Latin has over 800 different profanities, more than any other language.  Every year, my students want me to teach them curse words (which don't really exist per se; they are far more metaphorical) and I tell them no.  Besides, they can operate the google machine and find out for themselves.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 03:10:29 PM by scamandrius »
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Offline vamrat

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2015, 03:24:24 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb

I have that edition.  Whenever I teach Catullus to my students I have to gloss some of the more naughty words in a way that allows them to realize the meaning without having to just say it out loud.

Ah, I think the uncensored version really motivates pupils to learn their Latin.

Latin has over 800 different profanities, more than any other language.  Every year, my students want me to teach them curse words (which don't really exist per se; they are far more metaphorical) and I tell them no.  Besides, they can operate the google machine and find out for themselves.

800???  Gesh.  I only know like a dozen in Latin.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2015, 03:31:12 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb

I have that edition.  Whenever I teach Catullus to my students I have to gloss some of the more naughty words in a way that allows them to realize the meaning without having to just say it out loud.
Puritanism extends even to academia?

To an extent, yes.  I'm not a puritan, but a lot of my students' parents are.  Since I'm at a private school, I have to toe the line at times.  Fortunately, the students whom I teach at the upper levels where this material could be studied are the ones who wouldn't care or encourage me.  Still, I have to toe a line.

Puritanism would eliminate a lot of the lyrical and elegiac poetry from the curriculum, and not only because of sexual references. Horace's "Eheu fugaces etc.", for example, or Tibullus' paraclausithyra would be axed as well. Poor Lucretius wouldn't fare much better.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 03:34:44 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline biro

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2015, 04:07:28 PM »
I like Horace.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2015, 04:12:16 PM »
I like Horace.

I've never cared too much for Horace, but I always like to read Ode 3.30 with my students. 
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2015, 04:13:26 PM »
How I miss the old Loeb editions, in which the naughty bits were in Latin. It certainly added a bit of mystique and a sense of exclusivity. You had to work to get to the honey. With those modern translations everyone can read those parts.

One of the finer examples: Catullus XVI in the old Loeb

I have that edition.  Whenever I teach Catullus to my students I have to gloss some of the more naughty words in a way that allows them to realize the meaning without having to just say it out loud.
Puritanism extends even to academia?

To an extent, yes.  I'm not a puritan, but a lot of my students' parents are.  Since I'm at a private school, I have to toe the line at times.  Fortunately, the students whom I teach at the upper levels where this material could be studied are the ones who wouldn't care or encourage me.  Still, I have to toe a line.

Puritanism would eliminate a lot of the lyrical and elegiac poetry from the curriculum, and not only because of sexual references. Horace's "Eheu fugaces etc.", for example, or Tibullus' paraclausithyra would be axed as well. Poor Lucretius wouldn't fare much better.

YOu're right.  Fortunately, I have an administration (right now) willing to back me on my choice of literature.  You can't teach the sublime without also teaching the grotesque.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: On the Reading and Teaching of Naughty Latin Poetry
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2015, 06:54:18 PM »
When I first read Petronius the juicy bits were left untranslated . I was reading a translation prob made in the fifties or the sixties.
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