Is it the End?

[Girl]

I have read (in the paper) that many people think that the world is going to end very soon because of all the destruction and terrorism that they have been seeing in the world. What do you think? 

[jmell]

No

[Girl]

Nice.  Why? 

[choirfiend]

because Christ will come when we are not expecting Him.

[Girl]

Someone is allways expecting Christ, somewhere in the world someone is allways going to be in a position where they are praying for God to come and help them.

[choirfiend]

I dont mean that quite so literally. Christ will come, we know not when, and speculation is kinda pointless. Instead, we are told to be prepared for Him, no matter when we comes. We have to have our lamps lit, not be checking His bus schedule, oui?

[Girl]

Yeh, I was just wondering what peoples opinions were, and now I know yours.   

[Mo the Ethio]

Girl :
  Without trying to offend, if your priest ( spiritual father) has instructed you ( as taught by our holy fathers ) correctly , then you will know when the end time is near.
  With respect, I`ve read your previous thread, and I am still confused as to whether or not your church is in communion with any other Orthodox church.
 BTW..Bob Marley converted to Orthodoxy prior to his repose.

                  In Christ, Moses  +++

[Girl]

Like I said before I just want to know peoples opinions and I don't know who my church is in communion with...sorry.

Also I only put a picture of Bob Marley up because I like his music. (reggae mon) 

[choirfiend]

Girl :
  Without trying to offend, if your priest ( spiritual father) has instructed you ( as taught by our holy fathers ) correctly , then you will know when the end time is near.

Yeah, but....

Without any additional offense, Girl is 17, so if she has stuff still to learn, that's no biggie. I dont know when it is that any of us know everything that we want to.

[observer]

We can learn from prophesy.  We try not to live only by this but to work primarliy on our repentance.  Once Elder Varsanuph of Optina said that when his spiritual son was in St Petersburg, he,the elder knew what he was thiniking.  The elders (prophets) live in the spiritual world where there is no time or distance.  If Elder Paissios, who touched our livest yrs ago, is saying that Greece will be invaded by Turkey etc, I believe him.   We must also understand that prophecy (according to St Ignatij Brianchaninov) is not set in concrete.  God changes the future when we repent, like the men of Nineveh in the OT.

There is a whole world that does not follow the logicial rules of this universe. Its inhabitants live unnoticed lives, don't post on the Internet, but just get on with praying for the world.  They are beyond the reach of scoffers and cynics.  Glory be to God that they live and support us in their prayers.  Someone I know is in the process of publishing a book on this in English.

[sin_vladimirov]

Girl, I think that there are many things that point toward the end. Not just one thing is a "marker". Many are. Some are even invisible.

But, at the same time we have a job to do. That job is to live a Christian lives.

Many Sectarians have many a time sold everything they had so that they could "be ready" for Second Coming.

It is very good to be aware of these things, also we have to be more aware of the fact that it (Second Coming) will be a surprise.

[Girl]

I am not really offended by anyone, thanks for posting your opinions. 

[jlerms]

Observer,  I would be interested to know the name and author of the book  that will be coming out. 
                    God bless you,   Juliana 

[sin_vladimirov]

I am not really offended by anyone, thanks for posting your opinions. 

Girl, we do not have to worry about asking questions. Asking is not a sin.

It is when we are making statemements, that we need to be carefull.

[TomS]

Also I only put a picture of Bob Marley up because I like his music. (reggae mon)ÂÂ  

Marley - listen to ONE song and you have heard his entire talent.

[ania]

Hi Girl...
Quite honestly, the end is probably near, but I try not to dwell on it.  The best thing I can do is be the best Christian I can (fail miserably at that most of the time), and let the chips fall where they may. 

[Suaiden]

I have read (in the paper) that many people think that the world is going to end very soon because of all the destruction and terrorism that they have been seeing in the world. What do you think? 

I am sad to say I disagree because of the fact that I believe the world as a whole can get considerably more evil in the name of enlightenment and quickly.  So, I think the end is near, but not because Osama Bin Laden is going to blow it up.

[Cephas]

â€Â  Irini nem ehmot â€Â

I guess I'm probably the only person that thinks the world isn't going to end any time soon.  I'm under the impression that we've still got time before the Second Coming.  Let's face it, people have been saying it's near the end of the world for 2000 years now.  While it's true that we are 2000 year closer to the end, I think we've still got another 1000 years (note: this is just an arbitrary number) ahead.  Once we've starting cloning human beings (and been successful at it), then I think we could safely say it's towards the end.  Why humans in particular?  Well let's face it, think of how much of a God complex scientists had when they "created" a sheep.  Granted, I'm being generous by using the word "created", but I'm sure you all know what I mean.  Once we start cloning humans... we've really crossed the line.  Just my thoughts.

Pray for me.

[Nigula Qian Zishi]

Regardless if the last times for the world are here, the last times for us are and we should live every day as if it were our last.

[Lystra]

ok, well I have to say that I don't think the world is going to end. The newspapers have been saying that since my dad was my age, (and that was a LONG time ago j/k). I'm sorry if I'm reading the posts wrong, but I'm under the impression that some people posting are saying things that imply the rapture?? I'm confused. Do you believe in the rapture? I have to say, it's nice to believe there is a second coming, but when did he Leave? He is in us and the things that we do. In the Creed, it says "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven." I have to say that I am not a believer in the rapture. Hope I didn't offend anyone

[choirfiend]

Actually, in the Creed it says:

"And He shall come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, whose Kingdom shall have no end."

"Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven"  is from the Lord's Prayer

[Lystra]

Well, you know what I meant. Regardless from where it is, it still says in one of the prayers that it is on earth as it is in Heaven. And when it says he will come again to judge both the living and the dead, I don't believe it meant that Jesus will come and take all the good people and leave all the people considered 'unworthy.' God forgives ALL transgressions, not only the ones he wants to. He judges us and cleanses us from our sins everytime we commit the sin. The bible says he comes like a thief in the night and takes away our sins. So why would he come physically to earth to judge when he does that every time we commit the sin in the first place??

[sin_vladimirov]

Well, you know what I meant. Regardless from where it is, it still says in one of the prayers that it is on earth as it is in Heaven. And when it says he will come again to judge both the living and the dead, I don't believe it meant that Jesus will come and take all the good people and leave all the people considered 'unworthy.' God forgives ALL transgressions, not only the ones he wants to. He judges us and cleanses us from our sins everytime we commit the sin. The bible says he comes like a thief in the night and takes away our sins. So why would he come physically to earth to judge when he does that every time we commit the sin in the first place??

Hi Lystra, I think [from what you wrote] that you are confusing couple of things.

This earth is far from doing God's will. We pray for this as we are saying may your will be here on earth as your will is up on heaven. This being part of the prayer is placed into asking for something that WILL come (in the future). Now, if you look at Lord's prayer (Mt VI) it goes like this:

Our father, who art in heaven;
hallowed be Thy name;

Thy kingdom come;
Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread;
and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from the evil (one).
Amen.


You will notice that prayer is divided into Doxology (giving glory to God), then things to come (Kingdom and Will) and things that we ask for that we need right now.

About Second comming:
Church teaches that Second and Glorious Coming of our Lord will be visible and physical occurrence and not a secret one.

I would suggest that you read this short article about the END OF THE WORLD and Judgment, as it seem to me that you have somewhat wrong view of these:
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/end_w.htm


You are right to state that we do not accept the rapture, but please read this article to see what is the view of rapture by Orthodox Theologians: http://www.orthodoxonline.com/leftbehind.htm


I hope that will help.


P.S.
This site: http://www.fatheralexander.org/page6.htm is full of useful articles.



God bless.

[Lystra]

ok, thanks  I know that Orthodox Faith does not believe in the Rapture, so what does the OrthodoxFaith say about the Rapture? I read some of the article, but I am sometimes a mindless reader. Can you explain?

[Lystra]

you have to remember i'm a young'un. j/k

[sin_vladimirov]

I am so happy to see someone at your age being interested in God. I certainly wasn't, when I was your age, many moons ago (it wasn't just last century but last millennium also LOL).


I was not attacking you (you should know when I am being nasty better than most), I was just showing you some nice articles that you may read. I am learning so much from them, so... you can too.


 

[Lystra]

no, I know that you weren't attacking me. I was just asking, what do we as an Orthodox Community believe about the Second Coming? I know it said in the article, but I am more of an experience learner. just kidding.

I am so happy to see someone at your age being interested in God. I certainly wasn't, when I was your age, many moons ago (it wasn't just last century but last millennium also LOL).
 

Yeah, well, 16 does not seem very young to me. but whatever. just kidding. All teenagers say that. But some teenagers have to be interested to tell the others.

[eleni]

I certainly believe we are living th eend of times.
There are many realy good articles about the end of times......Orthodoxy Christian.
From Saints of Orthodoxy to our Church the One Holy Catholic Apostolic church.....

End
of the World
Bisho Alexander (Mileant)
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/end_w.htm
many articles on the Antichrist..............................................ORTHODOXY
http://holyorthodoxy.tripod.com/hippolytus.html

THE BOOK OF THE END......long article but informative.....
An Interpretation of the Apocalypse of St. John the Theologian
Vladimir Moss
http://romanitas.ru/eng/THE%20BOOK%20OF%20THE%20END%207.5X9.25.htm


The most important thing to remember is that WE do not know our END and therefore should always be READY.
IX helen

 

[admiralnick]

I've read some writings from a number of scholars who seem to think that the Second Coming will occur during Holy Week because this would be the time when we are most prepared for the Second Coming. Any thoughts?

[Asteriktos]

I don't say this just to be contrary, but I would think it would be the opposite. Yes, when He actually comes we will know it for sure, trumpets will be blowing, and all that jazz. However, until that very moment, until that split second in time when everyone is going to realise that it's time, it will be a mystery exactly when, and we are told that it will come when we least expect it, like a thief in the night.

Christians have thought they were living in the end times for 2,000 years now. Great saints seem to have had especially strong beliefs in this regard (e.g., St. Paul, St. Maximos the Confessor, etc.)  I guess the moral is that we should always expect it to be soon, and that if we think "nah, not in my time," then that signals a problem with our own mindset.

[ozgeorge]

I think we should live as though the end will come in our lifetime, because our own death throws definitely will.
We should live each day as though it were our last, because one of them definitely will be.

[eleni]

I've read some writings from a number of scholars who seem to think that the Second Coming will occur during Holy Week because this would be the time when we are most prepared for the Second Coming. Any thoughts?

Admiralnick I'm with you.....
The second coming is believed to occur at Holy week.......which is called the EIGHTH AGE/DAY....when the time comes that each day will be Resurrection SUNDAY...
I believe that there is such a calander in ORTHODOXY that one day all the days will be the EIGHTH .....I'm not sure what it is called but it does exist I know because I have seen it here...A friend who I know is a Priest and he showed me the calender a few yrs back.

IX helen

[observer]

What will the Church of Finland do?  And when SCOBA-ites change the Paschalion, what will they do?

[eleni]

What will the Church of Finland do?  And when SCOBA-ites change the Paschalion, what will they do?

You mean when the 'end of days are here' and the ''second coming of Christ''?
Well, when Christ comes the second time it will be the end of the world........AND His Kingdom shall have no END....that is it!

When the Second Coming of Christ happens JUDGEMENT DAY begins and we all live in the EIGHTH AGE ........His Kingdom shall have no end.

When in the Old Testament the people waited for the Mesiah and He came ...all the Old Testament prophecies were fullfilled...
quote.....

It is said that there were over 300 prophecies (spoken by different voices over 500 years) that the Lord Jesus fulfilled, including 29 major prophecies fulfilled in a single day — the day He was crucified. (Some of these prophecies may have found fulfillment on one level in the prophet’s own day, they found their ultimate fulfillment in Jesus Christ.)

http://www.stnicholaspdx.org/articles/ntstudy.php

AND HERE......

Besides that, the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies in the Lord Jesus Christ, as we shall see, precludes any possibility of another messiah. There could only be one True Messiah He Who has already come.

http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/messiah/index.shtml

 to change dates and all to fit in with what is called MODERNISM is exactly what they want to do.......The Antichrist will see to it that all is changed so that people will be confused and accept him as a saviour come on earth.....
So, say NO to MODERNISM......as this will be the beginning of things/if not they have already begun.

IX
helen
Glory be to God
Lord have mercy on me a sinner

[browneyedgirl]

God changes the future when we repent, like the men of Nineveh in the OT.

What do you mean?

[eleni]

This isn't for sure browneyedgirl.....but I believe he means that if enough people are truly good and repent of their ways then the future can be changed.If there are people praying for us (the monks at Mount Athos pray for the whole world)then the future can be changed.

BUT
If God sees that our faith lacks the fullness and there is more bad then good ,then He cuts it short for the ELECTS SAKE....so that WE TOO do not fall into the LUKEWARMNESS of what is decribed in REVELATION about the end of the churches age....which we are apparently living in RIGHT now ....

The whole of Revelation speaks of the Churches age and the coming of the Antichrist.....BUT as faithfull Orthodox Christians we must look at our death as it could come at anytime and therefore be ready.....

Yes I do belive that God can change the furure but it is up to us the people to do this.....with prayer and fasting .

From what the Saints have said of concerned prophecy about the end of times...we are truly living them....
alot of prophecy by Saint Kosmas are coming out in front of our eyes.....maybe we are blind to them....who knows?

IX.
helen.
Lord have mercy on me a sinner

[Kosmas]

Hi

In my opinion I would have to say that we should not worry too much about the end as much as we should worry about the now. As St Anthony says "Keep thy mind in hell, and despair not."

[Kosmas]

As to the Question "Is it the End?" You will know if it is the End. He will come like a theif at night. The Judge will come like lightning flashes in the East and is seen in the West.

[Cephas]

This isn't for sure browneyedgirl.....but I believe he means that if enough people are truly good and repent of their ways then the future can be changed.If there are people praying for us (the monks at Mount Athos pray for the whole world)then the future can be changed.

â€Â  Irini nem ehmot â€Â

Would it be accurate to say that the future is "changed"?  God is all-knowing, I'm sure we all agree on that.  And He doesn't so much forsee the future as actually "see" it happening right before His eyes.  God is not bound by time so everything is layed out before Him, past, present and future.  To use these words would be inaccurate when dealing with God.  So, to say the future changes, to me, doesn't seem right.  God takes into account people repenting because He sees them repenting.  I hope that makes sense.

Prayers please.

[browneyedgirl]

â€Â  Irini nem ehmot â€Â

Would it be accurate to say that the future is "changed"?ÂÂ  God is all-knowing, I'm sure we all agree on that.ÂÂ  And He doesn't so much forsee the future as actually "see" it happening right before His eyes.ÂÂ  God is not bound by time so everything is layed out before Him, past, present and future.ÂÂ  To use these words would be inaccurate when dealing with God.ÂÂ  So, to say the future changes, to me, doesn't seem right.ÂÂ  God takes into account people repenting because He sees them repenting.ÂÂ  I hope that makes sense.

Prayers please.

i understand what you are saying 

[Cephas]

*phew* that's a relief. 

[mathetes]

â€Â  Irini nem ehmot â€Â

Would it be accurate to say that the future is "changed"?ÂÂ  God is all-knowing, I'm sure we all agree on that.ÂÂ  And He doesn't so much forsee the future as actually "see" it happening right before His eyes.ÂÂ  God is not bound by time so everything is layed out before Him, past, present and future.ÂÂ  To use these words would be inaccurate when dealing with God.ÂÂ  So, to say the future changes, to me, doesn't seem right.ÂÂ  God takes into account people repenting because He sees them repenting.ÂÂ  I hope that makes sense.

Prayers please.

I don't know why, but your comments remind me of Yogi Berra's statement "The future aint what it used to be."  ÃƒÆ’‚Â

Anyway, it seems that God's people, by their conduct and attitude, can affect the time of the end.ÂÂ  St. Peter wrote:

"... The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.ÂÂ  Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?" ( 2 Peter 3: 10-12 New King James Version ).

The Orthodox Study Bible even says: "Christians can actually hasten the coming of that day ( v. 12 ).ÂÂ  How?ÂÂ  Through evangelism ( Matt. 24: 14; Mark 13: 10 ), prayer ( especially the Lord's Prayer, "Thy kingdom come" ), holy living ( 1 Pet. 2: 12 ), and repentance and obedience ( Acts 3: 19-21 )" ( notes to 2 Peter 3: 10-12 ).

With many Christians' life styles no better than the world's, and with more and more church leaders talking as if a person may go to heaven without faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, I can't help thinking the end is nowhere near.ÂÂ  While most so-called prophecy experts look to Israel, violence, and catastrophes as signs of the end, a better sign seems to be the spiritual condition of the Church.

In Christ,
Mathetes

[year2027]

God first

Beloved girl

God bless your heart

Will the world end soon

It depends on what you call soon

I do believe we are in the last days but the last days could last many many years

I see signs of the end all around us

but only time will tell

with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy

[djrak]

*phew* that's a relief.ÂÂ  

if God knew we were gonna pray and that was gonna change the future, then He knew the future, it is only us that think the future changed, just as the past cannot change neither can the future. Our prayers bring change from a human perspective, that doesnt prevent from the future not changing. the changed future, because of our prayers, is the only the future that was gonna come, was it gonna come anyway? NO. we are God's co-workers so we do what we do for the gospel to be spread, patient so that it reaches all, and unpatient so that the suffering and temptation ends.
just my thoughts

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