Author Topic: Being gay and Christianity.  (Read 67748 times)

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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #585 on: August 31, 2016, 02:56:20 PM »
even if so called "gay marriage" is for decades monogamous, it is still "with whomever they please."

There's a bottom line aspect to the issue, with a take it or leave it.

What is your point, other than to spew a bit of venom so that someone who has just got up the courage to post will feel unwelcome?
No, to put in the antidote to the poison that has been mixed in here.

As to what you claim we assUme, look at your local "Pride Parade" to see where people might be getting such ideas.

I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

Why is gay marriage such an offense to you personally? How are you hurt by it?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #586 on: August 31, 2016, 03:03:42 PM »
even if so called "gay marriage" is for decades monogamous, it is still "with whomever they please."

There's a bottom line aspect to the issue, with a take it or leave it.

What is your point, other than to spew a bit of venom so that someone who has just got up the courage to post will feel unwelcome?
No, to put in the antidote to the poison that has been mixed in here.

As to what you claim we assUme, look at your local "Pride Parade" to see where people might be getting such ideas.

I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

Why is gay marriage such an offense to you personally? How are you hurt by it?
I'm not "personally hurt" either by starving children in Africa. I'm against African famine (especially the man made kind) all the same.

Civilized. Often a projection of the sanctimonious.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 03:04:16 PM by ialmisry »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #587 on: August 31, 2016, 03:08:10 PM »
It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #588 on: August 31, 2016, 03:09:37 PM »
even if so called "gay marriage" is for decades monogamous, it is still "with whomever they please."

There's a bottom line aspect to the issue, with a take it or leave it.

What is your point, other than to spew a bit of venom so that someone who has just got up the courage to post will feel unwelcome?
No, to put in the antidote to the poison that has been mixed in here.

As to what you claim we assUme, look at your local "Pride Parade" to see where people might be getting such ideas.

I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

Why is gay marriage such an offense to you personally? How are you hurt by it?
I'm not "personally hurt" either by starving children in Africa. I'm against African famine (especially the man made kind) all the same.

Civilized. Often a projection of the sanctimonious.
[/b]

You're the one who brought up how offensive Pride Parades are, not me. So don't bring up sanctimonious.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #589 on: August 31, 2016, 03:35:55 PM »
I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

They are different in the US? Never been in one but just by observing folks on town the supposed participants (stereotypes, I know) around here are dressing a bit more colorfully than usually but otherwise people seem pretty normal. One sees colorful clothing during student parties and mayday festivies too.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 03:40:34 PM by Alpo »
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline augustin717

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #590 on: August 31, 2016, 05:09:29 PM »
I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

They are different in the US? Never been in one but just by observing folks on town the supposed participants (stereotypes, I know) around here are dressing a bit more colorfully than usually but otherwise people seem pretty normal. One sees colorful clothing during student parties and mayday festivies too.

Isa should like them since in Chicago at least they are an endless string of corporate logos . He loves corporations.
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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #591 on: August 31, 2016, 05:15:59 PM »
in Chicago at least they are an endless string of corporate logos . He loves corporations.

The same is true here. Corporate showing off at gay prides is even more perverse than leather-clad homos.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 05:17:10 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #592 on: August 31, 2016, 05:48:20 PM »
I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

They are different in the US? Never been in one but just by observing folks on town the supposed participants (stereotypes, I know) around here are dressing a bit more colorfully than usually but otherwise people seem pretty normal. One sees colorful clothing during student parties and mayday festivies too.

Isa should like them since in Chicago at least they are an endless string of corporate logos . He loves corporations.
Another example of Marx compelling false witness?

The logos are useful to advertise whom to avoid.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #593 on: August 31, 2016, 05:57:49 PM »
even if so called "gay marriage" is for decades monogamous, it is still "with whomever they please."

There's a bottom line aspect to the issue, with a take it or leave it.

What is your point, other than to spew a bit of venom so that someone who has just got up the courage to post will feel unwelcome?
No, to put in the antidote to the poison that has been mixed in here.

As to what you claim we assUme, look at your local "Pride Parade" to see where people might be getting such ideas.

I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

Why is gay marriage such an offense to you personally? How are you hurt by it?
I'm not "personally hurt" either by starving children in Africa. I'm against African famine (especially the man made kind) all the same.

Civilized. Often a projection of the sanctimonious.

You're the one who brought up how offensive Pride Parades are, not me. So don't bring up sanctimonious.
I didn't bring up sanctimony.

You did.

You also brought up the Pride Parades when-with disingenuity?-you projected an assUmption about the thinking about homosexual behavior.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #594 on: August 31, 2016, 05:59:05 PM »
I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

They are different in the US? Never been in one but just by observing folks on town the supposed participants (stereotypes, I know) around here are dressing a bit more colorfully than usually but otherwise people seem pretty normal. One sees colorful clothing during student parties and mayday festivies too.
Its probably a bit too cold in Finland for US style parades.

Linking as some might consider it to be inappropriate...
http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/gay_pride_parade.jpg
God bless!

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #595 on: August 31, 2016, 06:02:45 PM »
It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
Your point? if you have one.

Or perhaps daddy didn't tell you what happens after the reception on the wedding night (and some places during-but not at-the banquet).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #596 on: August 31, 2016, 06:04:56 PM »
I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

They are different in the US? Never been in one but just by observing folks on town the supposed participants (stereotypes, I know) around here are dressing a bit more colorfully than usually but otherwise people seem pretty normal. One sees colorful clothing during student parties and mayday festivies too.
You can see on youtube, e.g.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b62WT5AP6OU

I know people who live near the parade route in Chicago who have to vacate with their children when that date approaches.

Mardi Gras is just as bad in New Orleans, and elsewhere.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #597 on: August 31, 2016, 06:58:46 PM »
It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
Your point? if you have one.

Like everyone else, you are quite selective as to which aspects of tradition you want to push versus ignore.

Quote
Or perhaps daddy didn't tell you what happens after the reception on the wedding night (and some places during-but not at-the banquet).

I wasn't aware that masturbation was how marriages are consummated in your family. Interesting custom.
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Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #598 on: August 31, 2016, 07:16:28 PM »
It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
Your point? if you have one.

Like everyone else, you are quite selective as to which aspects of tradition you want to push versus ignore.
ah, so your point is only to project.
Quote
Or perhaps daddy didn't tell you what happens after the reception on the wedding night (and some places during-but not at-the banquet).

I wasn't aware that masturbation was how marriages are consummated in your family. Interesting custom.
I wasn't aware of your family's tradition of "lights out, eyes closed, no foreplay-or play at all-get it over ASAP to get the seed in" approach to the marital bed. Can't say that is terribly interesting, but whatever rows your boat.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #599 on: August 31, 2016, 07:19:20 PM »
I don't live in the US, thank heavens. So our Pride Parades are fairly civilized.

They are different in the US? Never been in one but just by observing folks on town the supposed participants (stereotypes, I know) around here are dressing a bit more colorfully than usually but otherwise people seem pretty normal. One sees colorful clothing during student parties and mayday festivies too.
Its probably a bit too cold in Finland for US style parades.
It's quite warm in the summer.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #600 on: August 31, 2016, 07:48:27 PM »
Thread locked pending moderator review.

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #601 on: September 09, 2016, 12:45:28 PM »
Dear augustin717,

I had to remove a post you made that crossed the line into an appropriate sexual discussion.

I also removed Trisagion and ialmisry's posts that responded to your's.  I'm giving you all a fair warning.  Be careful what you discuss, as well as what you respond to (that goes for Trisagion and ialmisry).  If you do not know what crosses the line, send me a PM or, better yet, just don't post.


Next...

It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
Your point? if you have one.

Like everyone else, you are quite selective as to which aspects of tradition you want to push versus ignore.

Quote
Or perhaps daddy didn't tell you what happens after the reception on the wedding night (and some places during-but not at-the banquet).

I wasn't aware that masturbation was how marriages are consummated in your family. Interesting custom.

It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
Your point? if you have one.

Like everyone else, you are quite selective as to which aspects of tradition you want to push versus ignore.
ah, so your point is only to project.
Quote
Or perhaps daddy didn't tell you what happens after the reception on the wedding night (and some places during-but not at-the banquet).

I wasn't aware that masturbation was how marriages are consummated in your family. Interesting custom.
I wasn't aware of your family's tradition of "lights out, eyes closed, no foreplay-or play at all-get it over ASAP to get the seed in" approach to the marital bed. Can't say that is terribly interesting, but whatever rows your boat.

Iconodule and ialmisry, knock it off both of you.  Keep your respective families out of this.

I will unlock this thread in a few minutes.  I ask everyone to behave and get back on topic.

God bless.

Mina
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 12:55:53 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #602 on: October 12, 2016, 09:23:26 PM »
It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
Your point? if you have one.

Or perhaps daddy didn't tell you what happens after the reception on the wedding night (and some places during-but not at-the banquet).

Wait, so why is it OK for you to totally change your church's understanding of what is and isn't acceptable sex, but it isn't OK for those Orthodox (and they do exist) who want gay marriage?
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #603 on: October 13, 2016, 08:59:50 AM »
It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
Your point? if you have one.

Or perhaps daddy didn't tell you what happens after the reception on the wedding night (and some places during-but not at-the banquet).

Wait, so why is it OK for you to totally change your church's understanding of what is and isn't acceptable sex, but it isn't OK for those Orthodox (and they do exist) who want gay marriage?
I would imagine that it is because one is done within the bounds of marriage, and one is an impossibility.

PP
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Offline Papist

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #604 on: October 13, 2016, 09:55:47 AM »
It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
Your point? if you have one.

Or perhaps daddy didn't tell you what happens after the reception on the wedding night (and some places during-but not at-the banquet).

Wait, so why is it OK for you to totally change your church's understanding of what is and isn't acceptable sex, but it isn't OK for those Orthodox (and they do exist) who want gay marriage?

While I disagree with your position on gay marriage, I agree with you that Isa is inconsistent on this issue. He seems to be ok with sodomy in certain contexts.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2016, 09:57:45 AM by Papist »
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Offline WPM

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #605 on: October 13, 2016, 10:23:25 AM »
Some groups need to examine why they're Christians and their reasons for so.

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #606 on: October 13, 2016, 11:31:25 AM »
Quote
sodomy
Sorry sir, this bay is for outgoing packages only. Receivables are just around the corner.

PP
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #607 on: October 13, 2016, 02:38:47 PM »
It's a wedding banquet, not a bacchanal.

On the contrary, a married couple engaging in mutual masturbation to please each other lacks the characteristics of sin,
Your point? if you have one.

Or perhaps daddy didn't tell you what happens after the reception on the wedding night (and some places during-but not at-the banquet).

Wait, so why is it OK for you to totally change your church's understanding of what is and isn't acceptable sex, but it isn't OK for those Orthodox (and they do exist) who want gay marriage?
I would imagine that it is because one is done within the bounds of marriage, and one is an impossibility.

PP

And can there be no sin in a marriage?  In marriage is all things acceptable?  Can you lie to your spouse, and it's OK, because it's in marriage? 

Just saying "Well it's within the bounds of marriage," doesn't justify something.  If it did, spousal abuse would be a praiseworthy activity.

And it's well established tradition in the East (and the West) that it's quite easy for a married couple to have sinful sex.  Fr. Hopko certainly thought so.  It's also why pretty much every (if not actually every) penitential in the Orthodox Church, ever, included anal sex between spouses.  Not all sex is acceptable, just because it's in a marriage bed.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #608 on: October 14, 2016, 11:04:25 AM »
Quote
And can there be no sin in a marriage?  In marriage is all things acceptable?  Can you lie to your spouse, and it's OK, because it's in marriage? 
Of course there can be. however, you can not equate sexual sin in marriage (which is totally a thing) with something that can not really BE marriage (a homosexual "marriage") they are separate issues. even if the current fad is that they are not.

PP
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Offline mike

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #609 on: October 14, 2016, 12:26:00 PM »
Quote
And can there be no sin in a marriage?  In marriage is all things acceptable?  Can you lie to your spouse, and it's OK, because it's in marriage? 
Of course there can be. however, you can not equate sexual sin in marriage (which is totally a thing) with something that can not really BE marriage (a homosexual "marriage") they are separate issues. even if the current fad is that they are not.

PP

What are the differences?
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #610 on: October 14, 2016, 03:02:17 PM »
Quote
And can there be no sin in a marriage?  In marriage is all things acceptable?  Can you lie to your spouse, and it's OK, because it's in marriage? 
Of course there can be. however, you can not equate sexual sin in marriage (which is totally a thing) with something that can not really BE marriage (a homosexual "marriage") they are separate issues. even if the current fad is that they are not.

PP

All of the old penitentials did.  So why can't I?
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #611 on: April 13, 2017, 08:38:15 PM »
Quote
For years, studies have linked marriage with happiness among heterosexual couples. But a study from the UW School of Social Work is among the first to explore the potential benefits of marriage among LGBT couples. It is part of a national, groundbreaking longitudinal study with a representative sample of LGBT older adults, known as "Aging with Pride: National Health, Aging, Sexuality/Gender Study," which focuses on how historical, environmental, psychological, behavioral, social and biological factors are associated with health, aging and quality of life.

UW researchers found that LGBT study participants who were married reported better physical and mental health, more social support and greater financial resources than those who were single. The findings were published in a February special supplement of The Gerontologist.
....
Researchers found that, in general, participants in a relationship, whether married or in a long-term partnership, showed better health outcomes than those who were single. But those who were married fared even better, both socially and financially, than couples in unmarried, long-term partnerships.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 08:40:58 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #612 on: April 16, 2017, 07:21:05 PM »
The issue of Gay marriage seems to me to be addressed when Jesus confronted the Temple Elders, and told them the law is not written in stone.
It is written in the heart.

He was saying that the law of God is evolving in love for one another, In my humble opinion.

I am not gay, but I have grown up with a neighbor who was born that way.

And there is scientific proof of the differences.

This knowledge informs our heart's with God's wisdom to not judge them.
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #613 on: April 16, 2017, 07:43:04 PM »
I used to bash Christianity for this, but now I see that the naturalistic fallacy is garbage. Guess what? Natural doesn't mean good, or better, or superior. Neither are all relationships or sexual experiences equal. That's the reality. Whether gay people are born that way or not, they are the statistical minority and as such they need to keep their sexual heterodoxy to themselves.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #614 on: April 16, 2017, 07:48:06 PM »
Quote
For years, studies have linked marriage with happiness among heterosexual couples. But a study from the UW School of Social Work is among the first to explore the potential benefits of marriage among LGBT couples. It is part of a national, groundbreaking longitudinal study with a representative sample of LGBT older adults, known as "Aging with Pride: National Health, Aging, Sexuality/Gender Study," which focuses on how historical, environmental, psychological, behavioral, social and biological factors are associated with health, aging and quality of life.

UW researchers found that LGBT study participants who were married reported better physical and mental health, more social support and greater financial resources than those who were single. The findings were published in a February special supplement of The Gerontologist.
....
Researchers found that, in general, participants in a relationship, whether married or in a long-term partnership, showed better health outcomes than those who were single. But those who were married fared even better, both socially and financially, than couples in unmarried, long-term partnerships.
It says nothing at all that gay people generally don't enjoy being alone. They're human beings, so this is an obvious outcome.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #615 on: April 16, 2017, 07:53:30 PM »
Quote
For years, studies have linked marriage with happiness among heterosexual couples. But a study from the UW School of Social Work is among the first to explore the potential benefits of marriage among LGBT couples. It is part of a national, groundbreaking longitudinal study with a representative sample of LGBT older adults, known as "Aging with Pride: National Health, Aging, Sexuality/Gender Study," which focuses on how historical, environmental, psychological, behavioral, social and biological factors are associated with health, aging and quality of life.

UW researchers found that LGBT study participants who were married reported better physical and mental health, more social support and greater financial resources than those who were single. The findings were published in a February special supplement of The Gerontologist.
....
Researchers found that, in general, participants in a relationship, whether married or in a long-term partnership, showed better health outcomes than those who were single. But those who were married fared even better, both socially and financially, than couples in unmarried, long-term partnerships.
It says nothing at all that gay people generally don't enjoy being alone. They're human beings, so this is an obvious outcome.

I think the point in the piece is that committed companionship, even of a socially unacceptable kind, will still have beneficial effects on people's physical and mental health, that are not countered by social disapproval.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #616 on: April 16, 2017, 08:23:48 PM »
The issue of Gay marriage seems to me to be addressed when Jesus confronted the Temple Elders, and told them the law is not written in stone.
It is written in the heart.

He was saying that the law of God is evolving in love for one another, In my humble opinion.

I am not gay, but I have grown up with a neighbor who was born that way.

And there is scientific proof of the differences.

This knowledge informs our heart's with God's wisdom to not judge them.
I believe some people are born with certain predilections towards, but I've never seen scientific proof. All the things I've read arguing that have been rather thin. Still, it makes sense. People are born with all sorts of predispositions towards a variety of things. I'm not sure how it follows that God is now accepting of it.
God bless!

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #617 on: April 16, 2017, 09:59:56 PM »
Just because people are "born that way" doesn't mean God intends for it that way.  That's like saying God wants people to be obese or depressed or bipolar.

No, it's a stupid argument for homosexuality, and the use of Christ is out of context and dishonest. St. Paul was very clear against sexual immorality, and named specifically in the book of Romans something that clearly describes homosexuality
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 10:02:11 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #618 on: April 16, 2017, 10:03:49 PM »
Quote
For years, studies have linked marriage with happiness among heterosexual couples. But a study from the UW School of Social Work is among the first to explore the potential benefits of marriage among LGBT couples. It is part of a national, groundbreaking longitudinal study with a representative sample of LGBT older adults, known as "Aging with Pride: National Health, Aging, Sexuality/Gender Study," which focuses on how historical, environmental, psychological, behavioral, social and biological factors are associated with health, aging and quality of life.

UW researchers found that LGBT study participants who were married reported better physical and mental health, more social support and greater financial resources than those who were single. The findings were published in a February special supplement of The Gerontologist.
....
Researchers found that, in general, participants in a relationship, whether married or in a long-term partnership, showed better health outcomes than those who were single. But those who were married fared even better, both socially and financially, than couples in unmarried, long-term partnerships.
It says nothing at all that gay people generally don't enjoy being alone. They're human beings, so this is an obvious outcome.

I think the point in the piece is that committed companionship, even of a socially unacceptable kind, will still have beneficial effects on people's physical and mental health, that are not countered by social disapproval.

+1

And I'm pretty sure there are some committed companionships that even gay people don't want to be associated with that can also have similar results
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #619 on: April 21, 2017, 08:48:04 PM »
Just because people are "born that way" doesn't mean God intends for it that way.  That's like saying God wants people to be obese or depressed or bipolar.

No, it's a stupid argument for homosexuality, and the use of Christ is out of context and dishonest. St. Paul was very clear against sexual immorality, and named specifically in the book of Romans something that clearly describes homosexuality

When Jesus said that man was born that way so the glory of God could be seen, In John 9
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus Heals the Man Born Blind
1As Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened that the works of God would be displayed in him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are arguing that everyone is to be alike.

God makes us different for a reason, His Glory is not for us to decide.

God works in mysterious ways.

Most of all, is to love your neighbor, like yourself.

Not the laws, Jesus argued with the Temple leaders.
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #620 on: April 21, 2017, 09:40:03 PM »
So God does make murderers and adulterers.  When I'm my worst, I'm simply doing my job as a beautiful flower in God's garden giving him glory.  Awesome! 
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

Quote
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Offline LBK

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #621 on: April 21, 2017, 10:00:24 PM »
Just because people are "born that way" doesn't mean God intends for it that way.  That's like saying God wants people to be obese or depressed or bipolar.

No, it's a stupid argument for homosexuality, and the use of Christ is out of context and dishonest. St. Paul was very clear against sexual immorality, and named specifically in the book of Romans something that clearly describes homosexuality

When Jesus said that man was born that way so the glory of God could be seen, In John 9
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus Heals the Man Born Blind
1As Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened that the works of God would be displayed in him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are arguing that everyone is to be alike.

God makes us different for a reason, His Glory is not for us to decide.

God works in mysterious ways.

Most of all, is to love your neighbor, like yourself.

Not the laws, Jesus argued with the Temple leaders.

Last time I checked, being blind was not a sin. Engaging in homosexual activity is indeed a sin. The Church clearly says so.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #622 on: April 22, 2017, 12:45:57 AM »
Just because people are "born that way" doesn't mean God intends for it that way.  That's like saying God wants people to be obese or depressed or bipolar.

No, it's a stupid argument for homosexuality, and the use of Christ is out of context and dishonest. St. Paul was very clear against sexual immorality, and named specifically in the book of Romans something that clearly describes homosexuality

When Jesus said that man was born that way so the glory of God could be seen, In John 9
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus Heals the Man Born Blind
1As Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened that the works of God would be displayed in him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are arguing that everyone is to be alike.

God makes us different for a reason, His Glory is not for us to decide.

God works in mysterious ways.

Most of all, is to love your neighbor, like yourself.

Not the laws, Jesus argued with the Temple leaders.

Non sequitor my dear friend.  Your argument is invalid and does not support the idea that homosexual acts are not, according to the Scriptures and the New Testament, sinful.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #623 on: April 22, 2017, 11:28:09 AM »
Just because people are "born that way" doesn't mean God intends for it that way.  That's like saying God wants people to be obese or depressed or bipolar.

No, it's a stupid argument for homosexuality, and the use of Christ is out of context and dishonest. St. Paul was very clear against sexual immorality, and named specifically in the book of Romans something that clearly describes homosexuality

When Jesus said that man was born that way so the glory of God could be seen, In John 9
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus Heals the Man Born Blind
1As Jesus was passing by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened that the works of God would be displayed in him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are arguing that everyone is to be alike.

God makes us different for a reason, His Glory is not for us to decide.

God works in mysterious ways.

Most of all, is to love your neighbor, like yourself.

Not the laws, Jesus argued with the Temple leaders.
There are a number of issues with your arguments.
1. Blindness is not a sin whereas homosexual acts are
2. Christ then proceeded to heal him, stating that the reason he was born blind was so that God's power might be shown in him
3. Acknowledging that homosexual acts are sinful in no way implies that we expect everyone to be alike.  Homosexuality is not the only diversity within the human race
4. God works in mysterious ways, but that doesn't include embracing sin
5. How is encouraging people to lead righteous lives not loving them? I can certainly understand having an issue with people who are saying "OMG, gayz are gross!!1!! they shud burn in helll!!!1!". But that is not the Christian response to homosexuality, and certainly not how the Church has ever approached the matter.
6. You can't just proclaim every moral precept as a pharisaical law. Christ quite vigorously advocated for us to be holy. Certainly we don't need to be slavishly following the legal dietary requirements and the ceremonial laws of the OT, but that is very different from holiness. Christ did not call us to a libertine lifestyle.
God bless!

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #624 on: April 22, 2017, 03:16:54 PM »
There are a number of issues with your arguments.
1. Blindness is not a sin whereas homosexual acts are
2. Christ then proceeded to heal him, stating that the reason he was born blind was so that God's power might be shown in him
3. Acknowledging that homosexual acts are sinful in no way implies that we expect everyone to be alike.  Homosexuality is not the only diversity within the human race
4. God works in mysterious ways, but that doesn't include embracing sin
5. How is encouraging people to lead righteous lives not loving them? I can certainly understand having an issue with people who are saying "OMG, gayz are gross!!1!! they shud burn in helll!!!1!". But that is not the Christian response to homosexuality, and certainly not how the Church has ever approached the matter.
6. You can't just proclaim every moral precept as a pharisaical law. Christ quite vigorously advocated for us to be holy. Certainly we don't need to be slavishly following the legal dietary requirements and the ceremonial laws of the OT, but that is very different from holiness. Christ did not call us to a libertine lifestyle.
+10
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline augustin717

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #625 on: April 22, 2017, 05:02:47 PM »
OMG, gayz are gross!!1!! they shud burn in helll!!!1!". But that is not the Christian response to homosexuality, and certainly not how the Church has ever approached the matter.
###########%%%%%%%%########%%%%%%
That's a lot of wishful thinking in there. I'm n many locales that's exactly how the church still approaches the matter.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #626 on: April 23, 2017, 12:27:44 AM »
And that's sad.  It's probably why there is a great struggle to preach the gospel properly.  Unless the Church changes its attitude, we will lose based on our hypocrisy.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #627 on: April 23, 2017, 09:23:41 AM »
And that's sad.  It's probably why there is a great struggle to preach the gospel properly.  Unless the Church changes its attitude, we will lose based on our hypocrisy.

You mean change the attitude that sinners should be repentant? Yeah, that's what's needed.
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Offline Eruvande

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #628 on: April 23, 2017, 09:45:09 AM »
And that's sad.  It's probably why there is a great struggle to preach the gospel properly.  Unless the Church changes its attitude, we will lose based on our hypocrisy.

You mean change the attitude that sinners should be repentant? Yeah, that's what's needed.

No, but the distaste towards this sin above others is... unhelpful. There is often very little compassion shown towards someone dealing with it.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Being gay and Christianity.
« Reply #629 on: April 23, 2017, 03:13:13 PM »
+1

Of course we do not change the idea that they should repent, but we should not treat them as the worst of all, giving them a feeling they're not welcome to the spiritual hospital of which we all need repentance in.

Sadly, that's not the case.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 03:13:37 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.