Author Topic: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States  (Read 2006 times)

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Offline Minnesotan

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Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« on: June 07, 2015, 07:21:21 PM »
Abortions have declined in states where new laws make it harder to have them — but they've also waned in states where abortion rights are protected, an Associated Press survey finds. Nearly everywhere, in red states and blue, abortions are down since 2010.

Explanations vary. Abortion-rights advocates attribute it to expanded access to effective contraceptives and a drop in unintended pregnancies. Some foes of abortion say there has been a shift in societal attitudes, with more women choosing to carry their pregnancies to term.


More here.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2015, 07:59:26 PM »
Homosexuality, contraception and abortifacients on the rise.

Coincidence?
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2015, 08:12:39 PM »
Homosexuality, contraception and abortifacients on the rise.

Coincidence?

Did you even read the article? Abortion is steadily becoming less common. Not more common.
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Offline biro

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2015, 08:17:43 PM »
It's declined every year since 1973.

Not in some people's minds, though- for some, things are always getting worse, and reality be damned.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2015, 09:00:18 PM »
It's declined every year since 1973.

Not in some people's minds, though- for some, things are always getting worse, and reality be damned.

Do not try to hide your disappointment.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2015, 09:06:37 PM »
It's declined every year since 1973.

Not in some people's minds, though- for some, things are always getting worse, and reality be damned.

Do not try to hide your disappointment.

What a wonderfully evil thing to say.
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- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2015, 09:08:16 PM »
Homosexuality, contraception and abortifacients on the rise.

Coincidence?

So you're saying that you're in favor of back alley abortions? You can't force people to be good Christians.
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Offline biro

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2015, 09:14:28 PM »
It's declined every year since 1973.

Not in some people's minds, though- for some, things are always getting worse, and reality be damned.

Do not try to hide your disappointment.

Do not make up mine.

I said nothing of the kind.

Bearing false witness is a sin.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2015, 01:26:02 PM »
^I've read enough of your posts over the years to come to that conclusion.

And I will not be lectured on what is and is not sin by the likes of you.
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Offline biro

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2015, 01:29:40 PM »
^I've read enough of your posts over the years to come to that conclusion.

And I will not be lectured on what is and is not sin by the likes of you.

No, you haven't.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2015, 01:33:53 PM »
^Nice retort.  Want to play a game of "not it" in the meantime?
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2015, 01:34:49 PM »
So you're saying that you're in favor of back alley abortions? You can't force people to be good Christians.

Since when is trying to prevent people from murdering their own offspring forcing them to be good christians?

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2015, 01:35:56 PM »
^Nice retort.  Want to play a game of "not it" in the meantime?

Since you suggested that biro would be disappointed at the prospect of declining abortion rates, and that this can be proved from her posting history,  would you like to muster up some evidence for that?
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2015, 01:36:51 PM »
^I shouldn't have to.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2015, 01:38:30 PM »
Homosexuality, contraception and abortifacients on the rise.

Coincidence?

So you're saying that you're in favor of back alley abortions? You can't force people to be good Christians.
This is not just a Christian issue. It is a human one. Murder is wrong and should be illegal. We should not make laws to make murder "safe and legal." That is nonsense.
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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2015, 02:16:42 PM »
I'm certainly not in favour of abortion in general, not that I've ever been in the position of having to decide whether to have one or not. Still, making the general specific, every pregnant woman's situation is different. So it seems to me wrong to block women's access to medically safe abortion if abortion is what they choose. It must be tempting to opt for abortion if, say, the mother's life is in danger or the child was conceived through rape.

Those who work to make safe medical abortion illegal ought really, it seems to me, to agree to support the mothers-to-be through their pregnancy and if the child is unwanted to take it into their own home and raise it as their own. This seems to be a sacrifice few who picket abortion clinics or work to make abortion illegal are willing to make.

It's very easy to dictate to others, and perhaps particularly easy for those of us in the Orthodox Church who so often think we have the moral high-ground. But God gave humans free will, and that can only be exercised when it is possible to make a choice between competing options. The Christian message stresses making sacrifices for the benefit of others. But until no unwanted child languishes in an orphanage or is shunted from foster home to foster home, it ought to be up to each pregnant woman (and, if she has one, her husband) to choose whether to make sacrifices for the benefit of their unborn baby or not.

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2015, 02:47:41 PM »
I'm certainly not in favour of genocide in general, not that I've ever been in the position of having to decide whether to have one or not. Still, making the general specific, every nation's situation is different. So it seems to me wrong to block a nation's access to efficient genocide if ethnic cleansing is what they choose. It must be tempting to opt for genocide if, say, the ethnicity is dangerous or the population came about through unchecked migrations.

Those who work to make efficient genocide illegal ought really, it seems to me, to agree to live amongst the unruly population and if the ethnicity is unwanted to take it into their own countries and live amongst it as their own community. This seems to be a sacrifice few who fight wars to end genocide or work to make genocide illegal are willing to make.

It's very easy to dictate to others, and perhaps particularly easy for those of us in the Orthodox Church who so often think we have the moral high-ground. But God gave humans free will, and that can only be exercised when it is possible to make a choice between competing options. The Christian message stresses making sacrifices for the benefit of others. But until no inferior race languishes in a ghetto or is shunted from prison system to prison system, it ought to be up to each nation (and, if it has one, its legitimate government) to choose whether to make sacrifices for the benefit of its people or not.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2015, 03:22:21 PM »
Those who work to make safe medical abortion illegal ought really, it seems to me, to agree to support the mothers-to-be through their pregnancy and if the child is unwanted to take it into their own home and raise it as their own. This seems to be a sacrifice few who picket abortion clinics or work to make abortion illegal are willing to make.
Oh? Do you have numbers on that?

And those mothers who cannot support their children, can we kill them then?
But until no unwanted child languishes in an orphanage or is shunted from foster home to foster home, it ought to be up to each pregnant woman (and, if she has one, her husband) to choose whether to make sacrifices for the benefit of their unborn baby or not.
abortion doesn't make every child a wanted child. Never has. Never will.
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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2015, 03:48:54 PM »
So you're saying that you're in favor of back alley abortions? You can't force people to be good Christians.

Since when is trying to prevent people from murdering their own offspring forcing them to be good christians?

My point is merely that people who are inclined to do so are going to dodge pregnancy any way they can. You're either going to have contraception or you're going to have abortion. Charles seemed to be implying that the rise in contraception and homosexuality was just as lamentable as a rise in abortion would be.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2015, 06:55:17 PM »
I'm certainly not in favour of abortion in general, not that I've ever been in the position of having to decide whether to have one or not. Still, making the general specific, every pregnant woman's situation is different. So it seems to me wrong to block women's access to medically safe abortion if abortion is what they choose. It must be tempting to opt for abortion if, say, the mother's life is in danger or the child was conceived through rape.

Those who work to make safe medical abortion illegal ought really, it seems to me, to agree to support the mothers-to-be through their pregnancy and if the child is unwanted to take it into their own home and raise it as their own. This seems to be a sacrifice few who picket abortion clinics or work to make abortion illegal are willing to make.

It's very easy to dictate to others, and perhaps particularly easy for those of us in the Orthodox Church who so often think we have the moral high-ground. But God gave humans free will, and that can only be exercised when it is possible to make a choice between competing options. The Christian message stresses making sacrifices for the benefit of others. But until no unwanted child languishes in an orphanage or is shunted from foster home to foster home, it ought to be up to each pregnant woman (and, if she has one, her husband) to choose whether to make sacrifices for the benefit of their unborn baby or not.
Couldn't this argument also be used to support euthanization of the elderly?
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Offline Joha

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2015, 07:07:31 PM »
I'm certainly not in favour of abortion in general, not that I've ever been in the position of having to decide whether to have one or not. Still, making the general specific, every pregnant woman's situation is different. So it seems to me wrong to block women's access to medically safe abortion if abortion is what they choose. It must be tempting to opt for abortion if, say, the mother's life is in danger or the child was conceived through rape.

Those who work to make safe medical abortion illegal ought really, it seems to me, to agree to support the mothers-to-be through their pregnancy and if the child is unwanted to take it into their own home and raise it as their own. This seems to be a sacrifice few who picket abortion clinics or work to make abortion illegal are willing to make.

It's very easy to dictate to others, and perhaps particularly easy for those of us in the Orthodox Church who so often think we have the moral high-ground. But God gave humans free will, and that can only be exercised when it is possible to make a choice between competing options. The Christian message stresses making sacrifices for the benefit of others. But until no unwanted child languishes in an orphanage or is shunted from foster home to foster home, it ought to be up to each pregnant woman (and, if she has one, her husband) to choose whether to make sacrifices for the benefit of their unborn baby or not.
Couldn't this argument also be used to support euthanization of the elderly?

worse... this equals:

Let's help murderer's kill their victims in a "humane way", by injection for example, because they are going to be death anyway. This way it is a win win situation. A "humane death" in contrast to a painful death and the murderer doesn't need to get his hands dirty...
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2015, 07:10:01 PM »
Homosexuality, contraception and abortifacients on the rise.

Coincidence?

Did you even read the article? Abortion is steadily becoming less common. Not more common.
Well, if you're not "pregnant" to begin with, I guess you don't have to worry about killing your "fetus".

But any unatural and artificial form of birth control is immoral and a sin nevertheless.

And that includes your "morning after" pill, which is still murdering the baby. Hence, an abortion.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2015, 07:12:27 PM »
Homosexuality, contraception and abortifacients on the rise.

Coincidence?

So you're saying that you're in favor of back alley abortions? You can't force people to be good Christians.
But I guess you can  snuff out a life in good conscience.

No, we can't force anyone to be a good christian.

But we can protect and defend society's most weak and defenseless victims.

Unless you're not down with that.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 07:15:18 PM by Charles Martel »
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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2015, 07:33:46 PM »
Couldn't this argument also be used to support euthanization of the elderly?

You forget the foundation stone of western laws relating to killing: your society will let you kill people out of greed, vengeance, stupidity, etc. ('just' war, shooting trespassers who might steal your baseball card collection or new TV, people who may or may not attack you and leave a nasty scar, death penalty for the violation of laws), but you must never, ever kill out of mercy or compassion, because the latter would be 'playing God.' Since the elderly would probably have a say, they cannot be allowed to have a say. If they murder some people first things might change though.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 07:35:35 PM by Justin Kissel »

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2015, 07:53:53 PM »
Homosexuality, contraception and abortifacients on the rise.

Coincidence?

So you're saying that you're in favor of back alley abortions? You can't force people to be good Christians.
But I guess you can  snuff out a life in good conscience.

No, we can't force anyone to be a good christian.

But we can protect and defend society's most weak and defenseless victims.

Unless you're not down with that.

Except I'm not convinced that a three month old fetus is a victim of anything. Not any more than a red blood cell is a victim of a bloody nose, anyway.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2015, 08:13:59 PM »
The Church has taught from the first century that abortion is evil. Just because we have the capacity to kill unborn children earlier now than they could in the first century, doesn't mean that it is suddenly ok.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2015, 10:39:13 PM »
Homosexuality, contraception and abortifacients on the rise.

Coincidence?

So you're saying that you're in favor of back alley abortions? You can't force people to be good Christians.
But I guess you can  snuff out a life in good conscience.

No, we can't force anyone to be a good christian.

But we can protect and defend society's most weak and defenseless victims.

Unless you're not down with that.

Except I'm not convinced that a three month old fetus is a victim of anything. Not any more than a red blood cell is a victim of a bloody nose, anyway.

Sounds like "victim" is a pretty useless category. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2015, 12:28:07 AM »
Homosexuality, contraception and abortifacients on the rise.

Coincidence?

So you're saying that you're in favor of back alley abortions? You can't force people to be good Christians.
But I guess you can  snuff out a life in good conscience.

No, we can't force anyone to be a good christian.

But we can protect and defend society's most weak and defenseless victims.

Unless you're not down with that.

Except I'm not convinced that a three month old fetus is a victim of anything. Not any more than a red blood cell is a victim of a bloody nose, anyway.

Sounds like "victim" is a pretty useless category.

How can you have a murder without a victim, though?
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Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2015, 01:20:40 AM »

Except I'm not convinced that a three month old fetus is a victim of anything. Not any more than a red blood cell is a victim of a bloody nose, anyway.
Hi Volnutt. In your opinion, when does life begin?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 01:22:24 AM by byhisgrace »
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Re: Abortion rates decreasing across the United States
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2015, 01:31:38 AM »

Except I'm not convinced that a three month old fetus is a victim of anything. Not any more than a red blood cell is a victim of a bloody nose, anyway.
Hi Volnutt. In your opinion, when does life begin?

Five to eight weeks. I was overestimating when I said three months. Basically when you have actual development of organs and a human shape.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 01:32:24 AM by Volnutt »
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Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things