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Author Topic: St. Pontius Pilate Day?  (Read 11055 times) Average Rating: 0
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Marc Hanna
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« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2014, 02:59:50 PM »

I got a different feel for the conversation, I didn't get the sense the determining Pilate's saintliness was a hinging matter on determining the one true faith.  But I do agree that it is certainly not a critical matter for the faith.  I am certainly not despairing over it, it is simply just a matter of interest for me.  Message boards like this offer insight into potential sources of research.

The number of saints who have not been canonized and have disappeared into the silence of history are numerous as the sand of the sea.

Started under Constantine, the spread of a unified Christianity does appear to have been a strategy not for Christianity but for the political interests of the empire - a strategy which continued for another 1000 years to the end of the Byzantine empire.  Christianization of Rome's enemies turned them into allies (or at least pawns) in their grand strategy, by winning over the hearts of the people and their rulers, opening the doors to communication through a commonality.

For those prior to Constantine, a praefect that was converted to an enemy of the empire might convey weakness and disunity within the empire, or otherwise might offer a sense of validity to the Christian faith which the emperors generally sought to subdue.  Continuing in this thought after the Christianization of the empire may have just been a convenient carryover, one that was easy for Christians to accept on account of Pilate's notoriety.

Research is certainly the key to this question.  I would invite anyone who has relevant sources to post them here, as well as any commentaries on these particular references  regarding the authors' particular circumstances and biases.
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« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2014, 10:15:26 AM »

I'm not sure how true the theory of Pilate's martyrdom is, but I would like it to be true.  I always felt sorry for him, as it seemed he had really no idea what was going on and was genuinely concerned about violent rebellion if the Hebrews didn't get what they wanted.  It seems like his wife wouldn't be likely to let the matter go if she prophesied to Pilate about Christ being a holy man.

I am with you on this one. He has always been the Biblical person closest to my heart.

Really?  That's interesting.  I don't know which one would be closest to my heart, but Pilate would probably be close.
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« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2014, 11:33:05 AM »

Perhaps this is one of the understudied topics. One can ask where did the Armenians and Ethiopians get their sources. Another thing to ask is how the gospels portrayed Pilate. Was he a "just" man, or a coward?  Is it enough for him to have washed his hands from the problem?

One also wonders why is it that the Christian empire in the fourth century is concerned about a pagan past in first century concerning whether to keep him condemned or not? Don't we have stories of martyrs who worked in the government and converted against the wishes of the pagan government?
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« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2014, 10:56:23 AM »

As Habte said in another thread, the Acts of Pilate repentance scene is actually irrelevant to his Sainthood in the Ethiopian Church. Their basis for canonizing him actually comes from taking the hands washing, Ecce Homo, writing INRI, etc. as indicating genuine faith on Pilate's part.

That would be nice, but it doesn't seem to accord with Scripture:

Luke 23:4-12, emphasis mine:
Quote
And Pilate asked him, “Are you the King of the Jews?” And he answered him, “You have said so.” 4 Then Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowds, “I find no guilt in this man.” But they were urgent, saying, “He stirs up the people, teaching throughout all Judea, from Galilee even to this place.”

When Pilate heard this, he asked whether the man was a Galilean. 7 And when he learned that he belonged to Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him over to Herod, who was himself in Jerusalem at that time. 8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was very glad, for he had long desired to see him, because he had heard about him, and he was hoping to see some sign done by him.So he questioned him at some length, but he made no answer. The chief priests and the scribes stood by, vehemently accusing him. And Herod with his soldiers treated him with contempt and mocked him. Then, arraying him in splendid clothing, he sent him back to Pilate. And Herod and Pilate became friends with each other that very day, for before this they had been at enmity with each other.

Note that this is after one of Pilate's alleged confessions. Why would Pilate become friends with an enemy of his Lord and Savior who according to Josephus would go on to kill St. James?

And why would he allow his men to mock the Lord and beat him? As I recall, beating and then crucifixion was considered excessive punishment, but I might be wrong. I highly doubt Pilate knew enough of Hebrew Scripture to think he was just fulfilling prophecy (and if he is a Saint on the grounds of just being a part of prophecy then so is Judas).

I can see Claudia being a Saint, but Pilate being one is highly unlikely unless he repented years later in Gaul (according to Joesphus, he was banished for the same excessive force toward the Jews and Samaritans that had gotten him in trouble with Rome after the AD 18 revolt). And even then there's the thorny issue of a suicide Saint and the question of Judas' status.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 10:58:00 AM by Volnutt » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2014, 12:07:48 PM »

As Habte said in another thread, the Acts of Pilate repentance scene is actually irrelevant to his Sainthood in the Ethiopian Church. Their basis for canonizing him actually comes from taking the hands washing, Ecce Homo, writing INRI, etc. as indicating genuine faith on Pilate's part.

Do you have a link to that source?
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Volnutt
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« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2014, 01:22:33 PM »

As Habte said in another thread, the Acts of Pilate repentance scene is actually irrelevant to his Sainthood in the Ethiopian Church. Their basis for canonizing him actually comes from taking the hands washing, Ecce Homo, writing INRI, etc. as indicating genuine faith on Pilate's part.

Do you have a link to that source?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,36031.msg568328.html#msg568328
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Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
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« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2014, 01:37:36 PM »

As Habte said in another thread, the Acts of Pilate repentance scene is actually irrelevant to his Sainthood in the Ethiopian Church. Their basis for canonizing him actually comes from taking the hands washing, Ecce Homo, writing INRI, etc. as indicating genuine faith on Pilate's part.

Do you have a link to that source?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,36031.msg568328.html#msg568328

Thanks!
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The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.

Please, James, tell us more about women!
Volnutt
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« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2014, 01:40:35 PM »

As Habte said in another thread, the Acts of Pilate repentance scene is actually irrelevant to his Sainthood in the Ethiopian Church. Their basis for canonizing him actually comes from taking the hands washing, Ecce Homo, writing INRI, etc. as indicating genuine faith on Pilate's part.

Do you have a link to that source?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,36031.msg568328.html#msg568328

Thanks!
No prob.
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Herr Jesus Christus, Sohns Gottes, erbarme dich meiner, eines Suenders.
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