Author Topic: Why am I poor?  (Read 4740 times)

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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2015, 09:24:13 PM »
My thoughts on the camel and needle comparison is that IF Lord Christ would have meant it would be just as impossible He would have said so, in stead He used words that, as I understand, explain it would be a challenge. An enormous challenge since a camel would be enormous compared to an eye of a needle.

An other thought I did have was, King Solomon asked for wisdom. He became beyond rich but seen he asked for wisdom his focus wasn't on the money but to be as good as he could be at the task him was given in the eyes of God.

In conclusion I think that is the moral of this being rich with temporal this might make it harder for us to give value to eternal riches. Enormously harder, or rather "camel-sized-compared-to-an-eye-of-a-needle" harder.
On the other hand, if you have little temporal things it is easier to focus on the eternal.

First be wise, than be rich in temporal things so you can value them as they are, temporal means.

No, I'm pretty sure he meant straight out impossible, not just "very difficult". The reason is that in the very next verse, the disciples exclaim "Who then can be saved?" If Christ was really talking about leading a camel through a narrow city passage, the disciples would have no reason to be astonished: a difficult but not impossible task is nothing to be astonished at.
I think you may be giving a bit too much certainty to what is probably a projection of your own conceptions into the text. I don't see it as all that clear why the disciples asked who can be saved.

Christ finally offers the solution in the verse after that: "With God all things are possible". So though it is impossible in the normal course of things for a rich man to enter heaven (since normally a rich person is too attached to his possessions), with God's grace a rich man can overcome his desire for possessions and be saved.
Thinking like that, I would have to remind you that it is impossible for anyone, rich or poor, to enter the Kingdom except by the grace of God.

Oh, and Christ also says in the last verse "With man this is impossible" and I can't think what he would be referring to if not the impossibility of [a camel going through a needle's eye | a rich man entering heaven].
Again, I don't see much reason for such certainty.
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Offline Hermit

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2015, 10:15:15 PM »
I want to be able to give to those in need so I can be saved ...
Hello mikeforjesus.
Can you see this statement as a bribe, or like buying a ticket so you can claim salvation?
If you really want to give to those in need, do so because you want to help them, not to help yourself.
Give from your heart, not from your head where the false-self (ego) resides.

Seeing life from the false-self perspective is only seeing and understanding worldly things - an illusive reality.
This false reality is based on fear, and only the false-self (ego) fears, for it knows itself to be untrue and invalid (just a thought, a fabrication).

Seeing life from the spirit perspective is seeing and understanding the spiritual things - a true reality.
This true reality is based on love, and only the spirit loves, for it knows itself to be true and valid.

Only the faithful can discern this truth.

If you reference life from the spirit perspective, you will no longer be poor in spirit or truth, even if the cupboard is bare.
You will intuitively know what to do to help those in need.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 10:16:47 PM by Hermit »
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Offline mikeforjesus

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2015, 10:31:20 PM »
I am not saying you don't have to love the poor you give to. Jesus taught us not to fear Him if we sell what we have and give alms provide ourselves money bags which do not grow old
Even if they are saved by love alone which I can only imagine if one does not have the worlds goods He taught us to store riches in heaven. If Jesus gave us the talent and health to work we need to work and give to the poor so I don't believe one is saved by love alone if one dies in a state of not wishing to work to follow this commandment to work
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 10:51:02 PM by mikeforjesus »

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2015, 11:31:13 PM »
My thoughts on the camel and needle comparison is that IF Lord Christ would have meant it would be just as impossible He would have said so, in stead He used words that, as I understand, explain it would be a challenge. An enormous challenge since a camel would be enormous compared to an eye of a needle.

An other thought I did have was, King Solomon asked for wisdom. He became beyond rich but seen he asked for wisdom his focus wasn't on the money but to be as good as he could be at the task him was given in the eyes of God.

In conclusion I think that is the moral of this being rich with temporal this might make it harder for us to give value to eternal riches. Enormously harder, or rather "camel-sized-compared-to-an-eye-of-a-needle" harder.
On the other hand, if you have little temporal things it is easier to focus on the eternal.

First be wise, than be rich in temporal things so you can value them as they are, temporal means.

No, I'm pretty sure he meant straight out impossible, not just "very difficult". The reason is that in the very next verse, the disciples exclaim "Who then can be saved?" If Christ was really talking about leading a camel through a narrow city passage, the disciples would have no reason to be astonished: a difficult but not impossible task is nothing to be astonished at.
I think you may be giving a bit too much certainty to what is probably a projection of your own conceptions into the text. I don't see it as all that clear why the disciples asked who can be saved.

Christ finally offers the solution in the verse after that: "With God all things are possible". So though it is impossible in the normal course of things for a rich man to enter heaven (since normally a rich person is too attached to his possessions), with God's grace a rich man can overcome his desire for possessions and be saved.
Thinking like that, I would have to remind you that it is impossible for anyone, rich or poor, to enter the Kingdom except by the grace of God.

Oh, and Christ also says in the last verse "With man this is impossible" and I can't think what he would be referring to if not the impossibility of [a camel going through a needle's eye | a rich man entering heaven].
Again, I don't see much reason for such certainty.

It's more plausible than your theory that "eye of the needle" refers to a street somewhere.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2015, 11:32:41 PM »
My thoughts on the camel and needle comparison is that IF Lord Christ would have meant it would be just as impossible He would have said so, in stead He used words that, as I understand, explain it would be a challenge. An enormous challenge since a camel would be enormous compared to an eye of a needle.

An other thought I did have was, King Solomon asked for wisdom. He became beyond rich but seen he asked for wisdom his focus wasn't on the money but to be as good as he could be at the task him was given in the eyes of God.

In conclusion I think that is the moral of this being rich with temporal this might make it harder for us to give value to eternal riches. Enormously harder, or rather "camel-sized-compared-to-an-eye-of-a-needle" harder.
On the other hand, if you have little temporal things it is easier to focus on the eternal.

First be wise, than be rich in temporal things so you can value them as they are, temporal means.

No, I'm pretty sure he meant straight out impossible, not just "very difficult". The reason is that in the very next verse, the disciples exclaim "Who then can be saved?" If Christ was really talking about leading a camel through a narrow city passage, the disciples would have no reason to be astonished: a difficult but not impossible task is nothing to be astonished at.
I think you may be giving a bit too much certainty to what is probably a projection of your own conceptions into the text. I don't see it as all that clear why the disciples asked who can be saved.

Christ finally offers the solution in the verse after that: "With God all things are possible". So though it is impossible in the normal course of things for a rich man to enter heaven (since normally a rich person is too attached to his possessions), with God's grace a rich man can overcome his desire for possessions and be saved.
Thinking like that, I would have to remind you that it is impossible for anyone, rich or poor, to enter the Kingdom except by the grace of God.

Oh, and Christ also says in the last verse "With man this is impossible" and I can't think what he would be referring to if not the impossibility of [a camel going through a needle's eye | a rich man entering heaven].
Again, I don't see much reason for such certainty.

It's more plausible than your theory that "eye of the needle" refers to a street somewhere.
More plausible how? Because you say so?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2015, 11:36:21 PM »
My thoughts on the camel and needle comparison is that IF Lord Christ would have meant it would be just as impossible He would have said so, in stead He used words that, as I understand, explain it would be a challenge. An enormous challenge since a camel would be enormous compared to an eye of a needle.

An other thought I did have was, King Solomon asked for wisdom. He became beyond rich but seen he asked for wisdom his focus wasn't on the money but to be as good as he could be at the task him was given in the eyes of God.

In conclusion I think that is the moral of this being rich with temporal this might make it harder for us to give value to eternal riches. Enormously harder, or rather "camel-sized-compared-to-an-eye-of-a-needle" harder.
On the other hand, if you have little temporal things it is easier to focus on the eternal.

First be wise, than be rich in temporal things so you can value them as they are, temporal means.

No, I'm pretty sure he meant straight out impossible, not just "very difficult". The reason is that in the very next verse, the disciples exclaim "Who then can be saved?" If Christ was really talking about leading a camel through a narrow city passage, the disciples would have no reason to be astonished: a difficult but not impossible task is nothing to be astonished at.
I think you may be giving a bit too much certainty to what is probably a projection of your own conceptions into the text. I don't see it as all that clear why the disciples asked who can be saved.

Christ finally offers the solution in the verse after that: "With God all things are possible". So though it is impossible in the normal course of things for a rich man to enter heaven (since normally a rich person is too attached to his possessions), with God's grace a rich man can overcome his desire for possessions and be saved.
Thinking like that, I would have to remind you that it is impossible for anyone, rich or poor, to enter the Kingdom except by the grace of God.

Oh, and Christ also says in the last verse "With man this is impossible" and I can't think what he would be referring to if not the impossibility of [a camel going through a needle's eye | a rich man entering heaven].
Again, I don't see much reason for such certainty.

It's more plausible than your theory that "eye of the needle" refers to a street somewhere.
More plausible how? Because you say so?

Yes.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2015, 11:37:11 PM »
My thoughts on the camel and needle comparison is that IF Lord Christ would have meant it would be just as impossible He would have said so, in stead He used words that, as I understand, explain it would be a challenge. An enormous challenge since a camel would be enormous compared to an eye of a needle.

An other thought I did have was, King Solomon asked for wisdom. He became beyond rich but seen he asked for wisdom his focus wasn't on the money but to be as good as he could be at the task him was given in the eyes of God.

In conclusion I think that is the moral of this being rich with temporal this might make it harder for us to give value to eternal riches. Enormously harder, or rather "camel-sized-compared-to-an-eye-of-a-needle" harder.
On the other hand, if you have little temporal things it is easier to focus on the eternal.

First be wise, than be rich in temporal things so you can value them as they are, temporal means.

No, I'm pretty sure he meant straight out impossible, not just "very difficult". The reason is that in the very next verse, the disciples exclaim "Who then can be saved?" If Christ was really talking about leading a camel through a narrow city passage, the disciples would have no reason to be astonished: a difficult but not impossible task is nothing to be astonished at.
I think you may be giving a bit too much certainty to what is probably a projection of your own conceptions into the text. I don't see it as all that clear why the disciples asked who can be saved.

Christ finally offers the solution in the verse after that: "With God all things are possible". So though it is impossible in the normal course of things for a rich man to enter heaven (since normally a rich person is too attached to his possessions), with God's grace a rich man can overcome his desire for possessions and be saved.
Thinking like that, I would have to remind you that it is impossible for anyone, rich or poor, to enter the Kingdom except by the grace of God.

Oh, and Christ also says in the last verse "With man this is impossible" and I can't think what he would be referring to if not the impossibility of [a camel going through a needle's eye | a rich man entering heaven].
Again, I don't see much reason for such certainty.

It's more plausible than your theory that "eye of the needle" refers to a street somewhere.
More plausible how? Because you say so?

Yes.
At least you're honest. ;)
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Bob2

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2015, 11:50:02 PM »
I usually just cringe and wait for LBK to tell him ask his priest on these threads, but I surprised after two pages no one has mentioned the "widow's mites" https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+21%3A1-21%3A4%2C+mark+12%3A41-12%3A44&version=NKJV

Also the parable of the Talents, the lesson: do what you can with what have.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2015, 12:12:20 AM »
I usually just cringe and wait for LBK to tell him ask his priest on these threads, but I surprised after two pages no one has mentioned the "widow's mites" https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke+21%3A1-21%3A4%2C+mark+12%3A41-12%3A44&version=NKJV

Also the parable of the Talents, the lesson: do what you can with what have.

;)

Remember the poor lady in the temple who gave 2 pennies? It is not about the amount you give...

As I see it:

Work, in any way. When In doubt and you ask in what way and listen you will be guided.
But remember, everything you own, little or much, you have received, and with everything you receive you have to act wise.
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Offline Bob2

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2015, 01:16:24 AM »
how'd I miss that

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2015, 11:58:39 AM »
how'd I miss that

Probably too much cringing.   :laugh:
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Offline Joha

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2015, 12:40:22 PM »
how'd I miss that

Yeah how did you miss me... I am huge!

(neh 6"4 cos most of you use 'muricas illogical measurements)
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ
Psalm 57:2 I will cry out to God Most High, To God who performs all things for me.
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Offline biro

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2015, 12:49:12 PM »
how'd I miss that

Yeah how did you miss me... I am huge!

(neh 6"4 cos most of you use 'muricas illogical measurements)

You're six inches tall?
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Offline Joha

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Re: Why am I poor?
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2015, 01:05:15 PM »
how'd I miss that

Yeah how did you miss me... I am huge!

(neh 6"4 cos most of you use 'muricas illogical measurements)

You're six inches tall?

Hey I told you it was illogical didn't I?

But no I totally messed up there...
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ
Psalm 57:2 I will cry out to God Most High, To God who performs all things for me.
You're big :P
The art of cherry picking