Author Topic: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?  (Read 8496 times)

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2015, 07:58:23 PM »
Of course not. If the beating doesn't work, then i would kick the kid out from my house, and see if his new religion and God would help him.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2015, 08:31:34 AM »
Of course not. If the beating doesn't work, then i would kick the kid out from my house, and see if his new religion and God would help him.
Never change, Pravoslavac.  :P

How dare you? He's right: the beatings WILL continue until morale improves.

Besides, isn't he a monk?, so he'll never have kids (one may only hope)
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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2015, 11:47:00 AM »
EDIT||didnot see what section this was in||ignore
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 11:48:09 AM by Justin Kissel »

Offline Kostya

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2015, 12:52:04 AM »
Age dependent, their brains have not fully matured to be able to think rationally and clearly and are often working off of emotions, impulses and other complex occurrences.

Maybe so, but have you ever attended an Evangelical Church? Hardly any of the adults are any more intelligent or qualified to think than their tweens are, and at least unlike the adults, they haven't learned cognitive dissonance whenever doubt arises but will keep pressing until an answer is given.

James, you make a good point.

I was raised Evangelical (SBC). My parents aren't dumb like one might expect, but they stuck with the religious affiliation they were familiar with. They don't identify as Evangelical or Baptist, just generic Christian. When I got about 16, it just totally stopped making sense. I had progressed beyond it mentally. Honestly, it happened a bit earlier, but I was forcing myself to believe. Long story short, I became a Christian as an adult and chose Orthodoxy.

But back to the point. I remember thinking back then that, had I been raised Orthodox, Catholic, or even mainline, I would have at least respectfully disagreed with my parents' faith rather than condemned it as dumb. I still saw Orthodox Christians, Catholics, and certain mainliners as intelligent, decent people. But when you raise a kid Evangelical, you run the high risk that they will outgrow it, especially if their IQ is over 80.
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Offline Kostya

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2015, 12:55:32 AM »

Maybe so, but have you ever attended an Evangelical Church? Hardly any of the adults are any more intelligent or qualified to think than their tweens are, and at least unlike the adults, they haven't learned cognitive dissonance whenever doubt arises but will keep pressing until an answer is given.

Just FYI, this is a radically misinformed and ignorant post.

Actually, it is posited by one who is about 19 years old, which may be the same, but again, may be different. It is immature in this old man's eyes and maybe a bit dramatic, but it is one who is intense and searching....and if memory serves, I was once as that young man is now.

Sure, I know he's a kid. But the statement shouldn't pass unchallenged. It's factually wrong, for one, and if he's immature, it's all the more reason for him to be circumspect about saying offensive things like this that are, by nature, unlikely to be true.

So you guys are calling him out for saying something impolite (whether true or not) about 'gellies, but I never see anybody challenge the (correct) characterization of most mainliners as liberal and apostate, even though it gets mentioned a lot more on this forum than the flaws of evangelicals do.
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Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2015, 08:36:43 AM »

Maybe so, but have you ever attended an Evangelical Church? Hardly any of the adults are any more intelligent or qualified to think than their tweens are, and at least unlike the adults, they haven't learned cognitive dissonance whenever doubt arises but will keep pressing until an answer is given.

Just FYI, this is a radically misinformed and ignorant post.

Actually, it is posited by one who is about 19 years old, which may be the same, but again, may be different. It is immature in this old man's eyes and maybe a bit dramatic, but it is one who is intense and searching....and if memory serves, I was once as that young man is now.

Sure, I know he's a kid. But the statement shouldn't pass unchallenged. It's factually wrong, for one, and if he's immature, it's all the more reason for him to be circumspect about saying offensive things like this that are, by nature, unlikely to be true.

So you guys are calling him out for saying something impolite (whether true or not) about 'gellies, but I never see anybody challenge the (correct) characterization of most mainliners as liberal and apostate, even though it gets mentioned a lot more on this forum than the flaws of evangelicals do.

Often the tenants of our faith sever as a backdrop, and thus unmentioned, for holding onto our foolish positions in/of this world.
If you are looking for total unity on many, or most, POVs, this is the wrong forum IMNSHO, as we have "diversity" in our give & take. Far to many of our posting are poking fun at what's "wrong" with XYZ and such so we think we can get an "identity" and "position" in our Orthodoxy, sorry to say. I ask that you stick around as there are some excellent posts that may clarify what you've identified in your post.
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Offline justanotherme

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2015, 03:46:25 PM »
Children have to be free to make choices past a certain point. Over 13 (or depending on the kid, I would add 12+) they may need to go their own way for a while. I wouldn't encourage my children to abandon Christianity (we're new to Orthodoxy, so it's questionable whether everyone in the family will become Orthodox), but I wouldn't force them. I would talk to them if they were open to talking about their feelings, and encourage them to seek out as much knowledge as they can a) about Christianity b) about history c) about scientific understanding d) philosophy and whatever alternatives are out there. My feeling is, that exposure to knowledge and an honest seeking of the Truth only leads back to God. If you're looking honestly, you can't avoid God anymore than you could avoid the truth about gravity--even if you wanted to deny it.

If they have to take a more circuitous route, they just do. All I can do is pray for them, that they would come back, and for myself, that I wouldn't fall away or falter. God might bring them back stronger and I wouldn't want to miss that. That said, I have an stubborn middle child that is definitely diverging from what I would like. I'm trying to encourage him to study, learn, and experience positive relationships/activities. I've been very worried about him for almost a year. He had been very interested in faith and behaving well, then suddenly veered off course. He's young enough, and so is signed up for Sunday school, but if he starts to fight that/balk at positive participation (I pray he doesn't) I would likely talk to the priest, first and foremost to get his help/the help of other faithful people, and then if nothing could be done, remove him so that he doesn't harm other's attempts to learn. But I'm going to keep praying and try to have faith and try to shut up all my anxieties on this point.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 03:48:07 PM by justanotherme »

Offline Branthony

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2015, 11:04:55 PM »
My wife and I just discussed this, going to another type of church, jurisdiction, or even parish while under my roof would be out of the question. However we also feel it's more possible to be brought up with our child because we both are converts. My family is Baptist and we live closest to them. Here will most likely attend church with his grandparents at some point. If the desire to regularly attend or "convert" to Baptist ever presents it self we will have a discussion. I have faith that when he is presented with the right explanation he will remain orthodox. My favorite would be this: I would draw a tree with seven branches, the tree would represent true Christianity, each branch would represent the seven ancient sees. I would explain that the see of Rome cut herself off from the tree, then that branch as it began to rot it started to fall apart. This is why the reformation happened, when Rome cut herself off from the true church she started to fall apart. The further you get from the true church the more decay you see, this is why there are more than 500 types of Baptist alone. I would imagine this would do a good job of keeping a child raised in orthodoxy, in orthodoxy.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2015, 12:37:28 AM »
As per the command of the Tribunal Office of the Inquistion, all charges of heresy shall be dealt with by burning at the stake.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2015, 05:24:12 AM »
My wife and I just discussed this, going to another type of church, jurisdiction, or even parish while under my roof would be out of the question. However we also feel it's more possible to be brought up with our child because we both are converts. My family is Baptist and we live closest to them. Here will most likely attend church with his grandparents at some point. If the desire to regularly attend or "convert" to Baptist ever presents it self we will have a discussion. I have faith that when he is presented with the right explanation he will remain orthodox. My favorite would be this: I would draw a tree with seven branches, the tree would represent true Christianity, each branch would represent the seven ancient sees. I would explain that the see of Rome cut herself off from the tree, then that branch as it began to rot it started to fall apart. This is why the reformation happened, when Rome cut herself off from the true church she started to fall apart. The further you get from the true church the more decay you see, this is why there are more than 500 types of Baptist alone. I would imagine this would do a good job of keeping a child raised in orthodoxy, in orthodoxy.

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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2015, 04:50:15 PM »
My wife and I just discussed this, going to another type of church, jurisdiction, or even parish while under my roof would be out of the question. However we also feel it's more possible to be brought up with our child because we both are converts. My family is Baptist and we live closest to them. Here will most likely attend church with his grandparents at some point. If the desire to regularly attend or "convert" to Baptist ever presents it self we will have a discussion. I have faith that when he is presented with the right explanation he will remain orthodox. My favorite would be this: I would draw a tree with seven branches, the tree would represent true Christianity, each branch would represent the seven ancient sees. I would explain that the see of Rome cut herself off from the tree, then that branch as it began to rot it started to fall apart. This is why the reformation happened, when Rome cut herself off from the true church she started to fall apart. The further you get from the true church the more decay you see, this is why there are more than 500 types of Baptist alone. I would imagine this would do a good job of keeping a child raised in orthodoxy, in orthodoxy.

If they're six, this would indeed do a good job.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2015, 04:59:43 PM »
They should not change their religion when their parents give to them.

But in your case is very good from protestant to become orthodox. You have been get the right choice.

Having your cake and eating it too.

Offline William T

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2015, 05:40:26 PM »
Stupid Question: do  Orthodox teenagers routinely fantasize about being non-Orthodox?

Not, as a majority, but just, is this something priests and parents commonly have to deal with

Heck no.  There may be some (rightfully) romantic nostalgia as a kid for some old Hellenistic gods or something that can cross the mind here and there...but that's nothing serious other than a kid just daydreaming.  No one would ever seriously contemplate doing that , other than disturbed teenagers or philosophy professors. There may be things like zodiacs, evil eyes, and tea leaf reading that are ancient and established "superstition" in the culture that can linger around for millennia.

The two serious threats I see are:
a) the current secular culture and the way people drift so quickly.  This wasn't a problem 40 yrs ago, but it's a problem now. Thus should be categorized as something like an "organic"evolutionary drift.  This is probably the worst problem because I think most orthodox are quasi secular minded and "organic" anyway.  So this turns a minor virtue to a major vice.  These would be organic and evolutionary problems within Orthodoxy.

b) An actual factual deliberate break.  But that's would be a break with everything.  Something like that is not done so easily.  There you are switching from being what you are to being a nihilist, egoist, our some kind of "revolutionary" commitment that is trying to radically reestablish everything,  This has famously happened to entire orthodox cultures, and can also occur within specific individuals siren to the present day.  Call this organizational and revolutionary problems within orthodoxy.

I don't think any of these really reflect the way people jump around from thing to thing in the United States in particular, and the West in general.  It's generally not an intellectual "Cartesian" meditation, choice, or "conversion"..which tends to be the way I see the culture in America.

The closest people you can can compare Orthodox (and to a smaller degree, Catholics) to in temperament, inclinations, and disposition may be the Jews.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 06:13:15 PM by William T »

Offline Alpo

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2015, 05:42:15 PM »
I don't believe that my hypothetical children would particularly care about my feelings on their religious affiliations. I certainly didn't when I became EO.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 05:42:53 PM by Alpo »
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Offline William T

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Re: Would You Let Your Kids Switch Church Affiliations and/or Religions?
« Reply #59 on: November 09, 2015, 05:57:49 PM »
While they are living under my room, no.  Of course, I can't force them to believe anything even while they do live with me.  But, they will come to church with me and I will do my darndest to rear them in the faith, but once they leave, it is their responsibility to find their own way.  They should have the burdens of that responsibility.

Pretty much this. House rules and all.

I wouldn't. It just makes them angrier and causes them to hate it even more. Of course, there is a difference between not wanting to go to Church because I want to sleep and not wanting to go because I don't agree with your religion. I think the moment a child reaches the latter point where he or she can question religion, that mandatory religious attendance and the like becomes stupid since it isn't going to do them anything unless they want it to. For me that was around 12 years old, as it is for most kids exposed to the Internet. My parents tried that on me but I used to always make a scene by refusing to enter their Church at the doorway and go Gandhi resistance refuse to leave the car. Finally my parents gave up around the time I was 14 and then a year later I became Orthodox. I'd love to have see you or Scamandrius try to force a 13 year old me into Church :) In retrospect, as much as people around here hate anything with the word progressive or open minded in it, I think that if my parents and parents in general had taken a looser approach to religion by not making it mandatory and not condemning their kids for questioning their religion and possibly not believing in it anymore, things wouldn't go as bad as they often do, and your child would be more likely to let you into that intimate area of their life whereas those with strict religious parents wouldn't dream of letting their parents inside.

Unlike what you seem to believe, we've been more or less stroppy teenagers too.

But you're British? I thought you were well behaved by your very nature :) But on a more serious note, how would you force a rebellious but intellectually intelligent tween to attend your Church against his or her religious wishes, and what good would you hope to accomplish from it even if you succeeded since on the inside he or she would just grow to resent your religion more?

I'm Greek. We don't do well behaved. If you see a bunch of us debating without understanding what is being said, moderate animation looks like we're about to go for one another's throats :D

But seriously, I would expect a smart kid to attend, study and understand what is going on at church, even without being invested in the faith. I won't send my son to Orthodox camp if he doesn't want to go, nor force him to confess and commune if he refuses. I won't violate his conscience. But I will most definitely make sure he knows what exactly he's rebelling against. (Assuming he does, of course; he may do so as an adult, or not at all.)

This is probably the standard household approach.  I would like to add that if the rebellious teenager is being "philosophically" radical and creating too many problems,  it's time to give him the "ideas have physical consequences" routine.

 If he is that adverse to going to Church or family events, he can't be sitting home alone on Sunday morning playing video games or reading things that make him feel more clever....he's getting 3 hours worth of chores.  Then  He can skip, assuming he is maintaing good grades and healthy relationships with other people.  If not, things have to be reassesed.

He can rebel all he wants, that just means I get my garage painted and force him into more study time for shool.  We've all been rebellious teens.  While it's good and necessary to talk to them openly and honestly about their beliefs and things like that, it's also necessary to show them all ideas require physical work, commitment, dedication, experience, and are long term processes. 
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 06:06:44 PM by William T »