Author Topic: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal  (Read 7178 times)

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Offline Minnesotan

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Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« on: May 21, 2015, 01:12:41 AM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2015, 01:22:50 AM »
Quote
If Makela made even one LGBT kid at St. John’s ‘Christ-based’ elementary school, their parents, friends, family or anyone who ever stepped foot in the church feel like being true to yourself is shameful (and it seems all too likely that he did)

Yes, because being a pastor equals being a homophobe. That logic is gay.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2015, 12:06:48 PM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.

OK. So what?  If this were an Orthodox clergyman, I could understand why this  might be of concern to an Orthodox forum.  But he's not, so why the need?
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Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2015, 12:28:03 PM »
I have found that clergy who rant about things usually rant about their own problems.  I sure do.  I justify it by saying that openly to people I talk to: these are my experiences, and so that's why I have strong opinions about them.

Quite a few Orthodox clergy who make big names for themselves with their rants about homosexuality or 'The World' or 'Traditional Family Life' will end up getting exposed for hypocrisy in the long run if the pattern holds.  They condemn in public what they struggle with in private, but lack the courage to admit.

I feel sorry for them, yet I am also angry because they do give out advice that has failed them in their own lives.  Call it the weakness of idealism.  Some have lost their priesthoods, and a few have gone to jail.  Others still leave broken families and wounded parishioners.

It is hard for clergy to admit that they struggle with pornography or alcohol or rejection of their masculinity.  They compensate by building a 'perfect image' in which they teach with absolute authority and no wavering doubts.  Converts drool over their 'Chrysostom the Second,' imbibing the same angry rhetoric that they once indulging in when they were outside the Church.

Run from the angry priest, the finger-wager, the unrepentant.  When you are perfect, you have no need to repent.  Think about it.  Look more carefully: is the perfect priest just camouflaging his faults, or is he honest enough to admit his failings?

Are we Christian enough to accept clergy who are strugglers?  Do we want the 'perfect' priest who knows no temptation, or the priest who has fought and overcome (and has the scars to prove it)?
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Offline Tikhon29605

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2015, 12:34:47 PM »
I read the article.  I feel really sorry for the pastor's wife and children.  I think the parish he served will eventually recover. But that's got to be a deep blow to his wife and kids.  And I feel sorry for the pastor too, but not in the liberal "gay rights" kind of way.  I feel sorry for the man that he didn't voluntarily leave seminary before choosing to become a pastor in the LCMS.  I used to be a member of the LCMS before I became Orthodox, and it is a very traditional Lutheran group.  The idea of a "gay pastor" won't fly in the LCMS.  (Although the ELCA seems to have no problem with it these days, that's another story.)  Perhaps he got married with the idea that a woman would "cure" him?  I don't know.  He has five children. And surely they must be bewildered at this tragic situation.  But if he was posting pictures of himself on Grinder, and trying to having secret homosexual liaisons with strangers, you know that the situation had to be spiraling out of control. Rather than waiting to get caught or outed by some Grinder acquaintance, it seems like the most honorable way to exit that situation (if there was one), would have been for him to resign his call to his congregation for "personal reasons."  No need to scandalize a community with lurid details.  Then, be upfront and honest with his wife about what he had done. If the wife wanted to divorce or separate from him (and I would imagine she would), let her go with as much dignity and as little drama as possible. Be very charitable with her and give her more than she asked for because she has been greatly wounded. I can't even imagine sorting out custody issues with 5 kids.  What a nightmare.

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2015, 12:44:13 PM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.

OK. So what?  If this were an Orthodox clergyman, I could understand why this  might be of concern to an Orthodox forum.  But he's not, so why the need?

Because this is "Christian News"? And we regularly discuss current events here that aren't solely Orthodox?
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2015, 02:05:21 PM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.

OK. So what?  If this were an Orthodox clergyman, I could understand why this  might be of concern to an Orthodox forum.  But he's not, so why the need?

Because this is "Christian News"? And we regularly discuss current events here that aren't solely Orthodox?

With regards to the faith, yes.  But posting about the failings of an individual pastor does nothing for no one.  Nearly everyday, we can read news articles about pastors or priests or preachers or what have you who  resign their positions for a myriad of different reasons (some of which are really screwed up) but we don't post them here.  WHy should we?  This is a private affair about a man who is Christian.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2015, 02:08:43 PM »
I have found that clergy who rant about things usually rant about their own problems.  I sure do.  I justify it by saying that openly to people I talk to: these are my experiences, and so that's why I have strong opinions about them.

Quite a few Orthodox clergy who make big names for themselves with their rants about homosexuality or 'The World' or 'Traditional Family Life' will end up getting exposed for hypocrisy in the long run if the pattern holds.  They condemn in public what they struggle with in private, but lack the courage to admit.

I feel sorry for them, yet I am also angry because they do give out advice that has failed them in their own lives.  Call it the weakness of idealism.  Some have lost their priesthoods, and a few have gone to jail.  Others still leave broken families and wounded parishioners.

It is hard for clergy to admit that they struggle with pornography or alcohol or rejection of their masculinity.  They compensate by building a 'perfect image' in which they teach with absolute authority and no wavering doubts.  Converts drool over their 'Chrysostom the Second,' imbibing the same angry rhetoric that they once indulging in when they were outside the Church.

Run from the angry priest, the finger-wager, the unrepentant.  When you are perfect, you have no need to repent.  Think about it.  Look more carefully: is the perfect priest just camouflaging his faults, or is he honest enough to admit his failings?

Are we Christian enough to accept clergy who are strugglers?  Do we want the 'perfect' priest who knows no temptation, or the priest who has fought and overcome (and has the scars to prove it)
?


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Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2015, 02:41:14 PM »
With regards to the faith, yes.  But posting about the failings of an individual pastor does nothing for no one.  Nearly everyday, we can read news articles about pastors or priests or preachers or what have you who  resign their positions for a myriad of different reasons (some of which are really screwed up) but we don't post them here.  WHy should we?  This is a private affair about a man who is Christian.

When you sign up to be a clergyman, you waive the privacy clause.  perhaps not formally, but when people listen to a clergyman, they listen to him often because of who he is rather than just what he says.

You can't expect privacy when people clamor to know why their favorite pastor has been canned by that horrible, mean, and nasty bishop.  Perhaps the details don't need to be shared, but granting clergymen 'confidentiality' is simply unworkable, and those of us who are clergy know it.  Eventually, the light will shine.

Christians to a lesser extent also 'waive' certain expectations of privacy in an era where everyone runs up to the Communion Chalice every Sunday.  I've had that battle.  I'm tired of it.  people get in line and want to pick a fight with the priest who must turn them away but can't say why.

I've had the dysfunctional parishioner who had to be excommunicated (with the bishop's oversight, of course), who spread all kinds of gossip about the situation and I could say nothing because of pastoral confidentiality.  But, I did have to take a stand at the chalice, and I could not defend myself.  People left the parish. 

You certainly don't expect privacy when you post racy pictures of yourself on a public web site.

On the other hand, I do think we need to get over the feigned 'shock' when clergy fall.  I'm not against these stories because they are some of the few moments when we can choose to actually have compassion for a man who has led a tortured double-life.

He leaves his wife and children (perhaps) whether their 'roles' in his life were just to cover up his desires.  This ought to serve as a warning to us all: there's no such thing as 'personal sins.'  Sin wounds all humanity.
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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2015, 02:57:21 PM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.

OK. So what?  If this were an Orthodox clergyman, I could understand why this  might be of concern to an Orthodox forum.  But he's not, so why the need?

Because this is "Christian News"? And we regularly discuss current events here that aren't solely Orthodox?

With regards to the faith, yes.  But posting about the failings of an individual pastor does nothing for no one.  Nearly everyday, we can read news articles about pastors or priests or preachers or what have you who  resign their positions for a myriad of different reasons (some of which are really screwed up) but we don't post them here.  WHy should we?  This is a private affair about a man who is Christian.

Ahhhh. So your objection isn't that this thread isn't relevant to OCnet, but a moral objection that it's not charitable for Christians to discuss his failings. I understood you to be talking about the former.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2015, 04:00:06 PM »
^To an extent.  If this person were an Orthodox clergyman, then I'd be willing to entertain such discussion.  Double standard?  Maybe, but I'm not concerned with the standards that other Christians impose upon their respective clergy, but I am concerned with the standards and conduct imposed upon mine.  For instance, with what is going on with the priest in the Chicago Diocese who has been immediately removed from his parish and transferred for (ostensibly) doing nothing wrong, that does and should concern me.

Fr., yes clergy waive confidentiality since they are public figures in the church.  But again, I'm more concerned with how our clergy behaves and not worried so much about what some Protestants are doing.
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Offline homedad76

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2015, 06:24:47 PM »
^To an extent.  If this person were an Orthodox clergyman, then I'd be willing to entertain such discussion.  Double standard?  Maybe, but I'm not concerned with the standards that other Christians impose upon their respective clergy, but I am concerned with the standards and conduct imposed upon mine.  For instance, with what is going on with the priest in the Chicago Diocese who has been immediately removed from his parish and transferred for (ostensibly) doing nothing wrong, that does and should concern me.

Fr., yes clergy waive confidentiality since they are public figures in the church.  But again, I'm more concerned with how our clergy behaves and not worried so much about what some Protestants are doing.

And that is fine that you don't find such things to be particularly important or interesting.  However that does not mean that others may not.  Now if you want to make an argument about why such posts shouldn't be made at all that is one thing but you seem to just be letting us know that you don't care personally.  You say you aren't willing to entertain such discussion while actually entertaining such discussion by commenting at all.  It is like the person who, when asked if anyone is visiting from out of state, answers "I'm not".  Good to know but kind of irrelevant.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2015, 06:35:11 PM »
He leaves his wife and children (perhaps) whether their 'roles' in his life were just to cover up his desires.  This ought to serve as a warning to us all: there's no such thing as 'personal sins.'  Sin wounds all humanity.

&&&&&&&
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2015, 07:46:47 PM »
^To an extent.  If this person were an Orthodox clergyman, then I'd be willing to entertain such discussion.  Double standard?  Maybe, but I'm not concerned with the standards that other Christians impose upon their respective clergy, but I am concerned with the standards and conduct imposed upon mine.  For instance, with what is going on with the priest in the Chicago Diocese who has been immediately removed from his parish and transferred for (ostensibly) doing nothing wrong, that does and should concern me.

Fr., yes clergy waive confidentiality since they are public figures in the church.  But again, I'm more concerned with how our clergy behaves and not worried so much about what some Protestants are doing.

And that is fine that you don't find such things to be particularly important or interesting.  However that does not mean that others may not.  Now if you want to make an argument about why such posts shouldn't be made at all that is one thing but you seem to just be letting us know that you don't care personally.  You say you aren't willing to entertain such discussion while actually entertaining such discussion by commenting at all.  It is like the person who, when asked if anyone is visiting from out of state, answers "I'm not".  Good to know but kind of irrelevant.

Missed the point altogether.
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2015, 10:12:16 PM »
One woman claims Makela encouraged her teenage son to commit suicide, by saying, in effect, that "if he was going to go to hell for being gay then he might as well go to hell by committing suicide."

Denominational differences don't really matter much to all the "nones"/secularists out there who think that all Christians are just a bunch of bigots. Read the comments sections on articles about this guy. Most of the commenters are just ranting about how awful, hypocritical and evil those Christians are. The fact that so many people feel that way these days is eye-opening. What's sad is that people like Makela are only fueling this trend with their actions.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 10:26:37 PM by Minnesotan »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2015, 11:29:46 PM »
Quote
Tyler Kish told anchor David Custer he went to Makela for guidance less than a year ago. “What I took away from it was that I needed to repent and hold onto the hope that God could change me,” he said. He also contemplated suicide.
Quote
Jennifer Kish told Saginaw, Michigan’s WNEM that the disgraced pastor, who was exposed for soliciting gay sex on Grindr earlier this week, told her 17-year-old son Tyler that “if he was going to go to hell for being gay that he might as well go to hell by committing suicide.”

Maybe its just me, but those sound very different from one another...
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2015, 02:05:14 AM »
Quote
Tyler Kish told anchor David Custer he went to Makela for guidance less than a year ago. “What I took away from it was that I needed to repent and hold onto the hope that God could change me,” he said. He also contemplated suicide.
Quote
Jennifer Kish told Saginaw, Michigan’s WNEM that the disgraced pastor, who was exposed for soliciting gay sex on Grindr earlier this week, told her 17-year-old son Tyler that “if he was going to go to hell for being gay that he might as well go to hell by committing suicide.”

Maybe its just me, but those sound very different from one another...

Yeah, they do. There seems to be more going on here than meets the eye.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2015, 02:38:16 AM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.
Why is this worthy of our attention?
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2015, 02:49:03 AM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.
Why is this worthy of our attention?

Because of the reaction it's getting from the media. As I pointed out above there are a lot of nonbelievers commenting on this story, expressing glee that another one of those "bigoted Christians" has been exposed as a hypocrite. Stories like this only end up feeding those kinds of attitudes, which are, sadly, growing.
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2015, 02:53:53 AM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.
Why is this worthy of our attention?

Because of the reaction it's getting from the media. As I pointed out above there are a lot of nonbelievers commenting on this story, expressing glee that another one of those "bigoted Christians" has been exposed as a hypocrite. Stories like this only end up feeding those kinds of attitudes, which are, sadly, growing.
And how does this affect us?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2015, 03:04:04 AM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.
Why is this worthy of our attention?

Because of the reaction it's getting from the media. As I pointed out above there are a lot of nonbelievers commenting on this story, expressing glee that another one of those "bigoted Christians" has been exposed as a hypocrite. Stories like this only end up feeding those kinds of attitudes, which are, sadly, growing.
And how does this affect us?
Because Americans (and other westerners) are becoming ever more hostile to religious belief.
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline wgw

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2015, 03:10:57 AM »
A Michigan pastor resigned this week after the gay news site Queerty posted images of his profile from the gay hookup app Grindr.

From the looks of it, Rev. Matthew Makela of St. John’s Lutheran Church in Midland moved swiftly to try to limit the damage from the disclosure.


More here.
Why is this worthy of our attention?

Because of the reaction it's getting from the media. As I pointed out above there are a lot of nonbelievers commenting on this story, expressing glee that another one of those "bigoted Christians" has been exposed as a hypocrite. Stories like this only end up feeding those kinds of attitudes, which are, sadly, growing.
And how does this affect us?
Because Americans (and other westerners) are becoming ever more hostile to religious belief.

Indeed.  A waning tide sinks all boats.   Ours will remain afloat we are promised, but there will become a time I think when we may find the hearts of people outside the Church hardened to us on account of our sins, not understanding our rejection of Pelagianism and not hearing our confession of being chief among sinners.
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Offline JTLoganville

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2015, 10:53:13 PM »
Why is this worthy of our attention?

Beyond reasons stated by others:  Because Western churches with a rich liturgical heritage are fertile ground for converts to Orthodoxy.

The Antionchian Archdiocese has many former Lutherans and former Anglicans/Episcopalians among its clergy.   One notable convert from the LCMS is Fr. John Fenton, who, with his Detroit congregation became Western Rite Antiochian.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2015, 08:38:49 AM »
That is why we pray for our priest daily, as they need prays more than we and because we each know our struggle.
It is clear he has a hell of a job.
Sometimes a Shepard, more often a cat herder  :)

I have found that clergy who rant about things usually rant about their own problems.  I sure do.  I justify it by saying that openly to people I talk to: these are my experiences, and so that's why I have strong opinions about them.
Quite a few Orthodox clergy who make big names for themselves with their rants about homosexuality or 'The World' or 'Traditional Family Life' will end up getting exposed for hypocrisy in the long run if the pattern holds.  They condemn in public what they struggle with in private, but lack the courage to admit.
I feel sorry for them, yet I am also angry because they do give out advice that has failed them in their own lives.  Call it the weakness of idealism.  Some have lost their priesthoods, and a few have gone to jail.  Others still leave broken families and wounded parishioners.
It is hard for clergy to admit that they struggle with pornography or alcohol or rejection of their masculinity.  They compensate by building a 'perfect image' in which they teach with absolute authority and no wavering doubts.  Converts drool over their 'Chrysostom the Second,' imbibing the same angry rhetoric that they once indulging in when they were outside the Church.
Run from the angry priest, the finger-wager, the unrepentant.  When you are perfect, you have no need to repent.  Think about it.  Look more carefully: is the perfect priest just camouflaging his faults, or is he honest enough to admit his failings?
Are we Christian enough to accept clergy who are strugglers?  Do we want the 'perfect' priest who knows no temptation, or the priest who has fought and overcome (and has the scars to prove it)?

« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 08:48:40 AM by LenInSebastopol »
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Offline wgw

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2015, 02:48:37 PM »
Why is this worthy of our attention?

Beyond reasons stated by others:  Because Western churches with a rich liturgical heritage are fertile ground for converts to Orthodoxy.

The Antionchian Archdiocese has many former Lutherans and former Anglicans/Episcopalians among its clergy.   One notable convert from the LCMS is Fr. John Fenton, who, with his Detroit congregation became Western Rite Antiochian.

That too!  I went to and thoroughly enjoyed an an LCMS parochial school.  In the third grade I had a wonderful teacher, the best I ever had, who was also a charming Southern lady of the highest calibre, who had a son a year older than me.  She had the last name of Mrs. Butts, which did expose her to a lot of predictable third grade humor.  ;D  Years later my mother and I visited her in her beautiful hometown of Natchez, Mississippi, where she and her husband had acquired a beautiful house with an elegant Art Deco interior.   We visited a number of stately homes and had some superb soul food.

Good LCMS people like Mrs. Butts are the reason why this matters.  She was pious and in every respect well disposed towards Orthodoxy.  If the LCMS ever should go the way of the ELCA, the Orthodox stand the most to benefit, if we keep our Western Rite.  Actually it was at the Lutheran parochial school where ai was first taught about liturgical colors and liturgical seasons in a deep way; the Methodists had thse of course but no one in Sunday School bothered to teach them to us.
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2015, 12:15:49 PM »
That is why we pray for our priest daily, as they need prays more than we and because we each know our struggle.
It is clear he has a hell of a job.
Sometimes a Shepard, more often a cat herder  :)

Yes, 'cat herding' is a good metaphor.  I usually liken it to 'manual mine-detecting': stomp, stomp, click... boom.
You can't find wisdom in the mirror.

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2015, 12:21:28 PM »
That is why we pray for our priest daily, as they need prays more than we and because we each know our struggle.
It is clear he has a hell of a job.
Sometimes a Shepard, more often a cat herder  :)
I usually liken it to 'manual mine-detecting': stomp, stomp, click... boom.[/size][/font]
Yeah, music to my ears...,but I' eh noticed, no matter how light the slipper or delicately placed, it often feels like Das Boot of God.  ::)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2015, 12:22:21 PM by LenInSebastopol »
God is The Creator of All Free Beings

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2015, 12:25:45 PM »
That is why we pray for our priest daily, as they need prays more than we and because we each know our struggle.
It is clear he has a hell of a job.
Sometimes a Shepard, more often a cat herder  :)
I usually liken it to 'manual mine-detecting': stomp, stomp, click... boom.[/size][/font]
Yeah, music to my ears...,but I' eh noticed, no matter how light the slipper or delicately placed, it often feels like Das Boot of God.  ::)

You can't find wisdom in the mirror.

Offline Velsigne

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2015, 12:44:09 PM »
The documentary The Overnighters is being hailed as one of the top 100 documentaries of all time.

It is a multilayered story of a Lutheran pastor in North Dakota who tries to help the many men who arrive to work the oil fields during the boom. 

Without discussing at length, the pastor ends up falling in the same way as the topic of this thread. 

Seems like a case study of what happens when we try to do good and be righteous by our own lights, not by God's. 

https://www.facebook.com/TheOvernightersFilm

NETLFIX ____The Overnighters__streaming

A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline Velsigne

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2015, 12:53:06 PM »
That is why we pray for our priest daily, as they need prays more than we and because we each know our struggle.
It is clear he has a hell of a job.
Sometimes a Shepard, more often a cat herder  :)
I usually liken it to 'manual mine-detecting': stomp, stomp, click... boom.[/size][/font]
Yeah, music to my ears...,but I' eh noticed, no matter how light the slipper or delicately placed, it often feels like Das Boot of God.  ::)



Oh my.  Is that the scary version of the Ark of Salvation? 
A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2015, 01:19:00 PM »
It is fascinating how I could not find any mention of 'how' he 'fell' or what he did to be removed.  Every report avoided the story of his actual fall, and I can't tell whether it was money, sex, drugs, or gambling (all of which are big in oil towns and mining camps).

Interesting double-standard, intentional or not.


The documentary The Overnighters is being hailed as one of the top 100 documentaries of all time.

It is a multilayered story of a Lutheran pastor in North Dakota who tries to help the many men who arrive to work the oil fields during the boom. 

Without discussing at length, the pastor ends up falling in the same way as the topic of this thread. 

Seems like a case study of what happens when we try to do good and be righteous by our own lights, not by God's. 

https://www.facebook.com/TheOvernightersFilm

NETLFIX ____The Overnighters__streaming
You can't find wisdom in the mirror.

Offline Velsigne

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Re: Michigan LCMS pastor resigns following Grindr scandal
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2015, 02:14:01 PM »
It is unclear to what conclusions, if any, the documentarian is leading us.  I didn't realize until the very end of the documentary that this pastor had been living a double life: married with children, ostensibly serving Christ, yet he engaged in homosexual sex and was eventually blackmailed by one of his lovers.  Then it all came out.

In the secular view, it seems we are being shown someone who tries to do a lot of good and he is same sex attracted and is forced to leave his church. 

Yes, it is kind of strange how that aspect of the story is kept very silent, but it is indeed only part of the story.  If the viewer focused only on that one aspect, they would miss the other aspects.

The parishioners tire of having their building used as a flop house for migrant workers.  As we know, it's costly and time consuming to keep a building up even without the extra demand of housing people in the building.

The pastor ends up at odds with the larger community and with his parish over his project. 

It's an interesting documentary at many levels.     



It is fascinating how I could not find any mention of 'how' he 'fell' or what he did to be removed.  Every report avoided the story of his actual fall, and I can't tell whether it was money, sex, drugs, or gambling (all of which are big in oil towns and mining camps).

Interesting double-standard, intentional or not.


The documentary The Overnighters is being hailed as one of the top 100 documentaries of all time.

It is a multilayered story of a Lutheran pastor in North Dakota who tries to help the many men who arrive to work the oil fields during the boom. 

Without discussing at length, the pastor ends up falling in the same way as the topic of this thread. 

Seems like a case study of what happens when we try to do good and be righteous by our own lights, not by God's. 

https://www.facebook.com/TheOvernightersFilm

NETLFIX ____The Overnighters__streaming
A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground.

Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb