Author Topic: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....  (Read 20140 times)

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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #90 on: April 08, 2015, 07:41:54 PM »
Speaking of money misery and woes of marriage.

How many times have you seen a guy spend every last dime on a women (Or the other way around) trying to win her  affection while she dumps all over him and yet she forever pursues the deadbeat dirtball without a nickel to his name?

Yea, c'mon, we've all seen this at one time or another.

So spare me the "money" part of the equation.

You sound really disillusioned with adult women. Is this why you hang around bus stops and playgrounds so much?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 07:42:03 PM by Iconodule »
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- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #91 on: April 08, 2015, 08:35:31 PM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #92 on: April 08, 2015, 08:39:28 PM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #93 on: April 08, 2015, 08:39:50 PM »
Money can't buy you love.

Yet you complain about how...

she forever pursues the deadbeat dirtball without a nickel to his name

You really don't get it.

You must be the deadbeat dirtball.

Although parasitism is par for the course in them socialist states you dwell in over there across the pond.



This isn't the Politics board. That means you are not allowed to use ad hominem arguments here. For your failure to recognize where you're posting, which led you to post a personal insult against one of our posters where insults are not permitted, you are now receiving this 45-point warning. If you wish to appeal this penalty, please PM me.

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« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 08:49:18 PM by PeterTheAleut »
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #94 on: April 08, 2015, 08:47:19 PM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.
Large families have always been a source of strength and security as well as the divine plan for love and companionship.

As the family weakens and becomes smaller, the culture begins in decline,as it is now.

I don't understand why you would believe it's a worthless pursuit.

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Online RobS

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #95 on: April 08, 2015, 09:43:54 PM »
I had some redundant things to say, wonder if my moderated posts will get approved. Strange how they don't get posted at the end of a thread when approved. Ah well.

I'm kinda taken aback by that stretch of cynicism from a few posters. I was mocking that attitude in my first post, although mine was more antinatalistic. If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Online RobS

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #96 on: April 08, 2015, 09:48:54 PM »
Quote
The irony is that the homosexuals are the only ones who still value marriage.

The irony is that it's impossible for homosexuals to be truly "married".
that's not true- I'm getting married this summer. August 2nd, save the date! I'm hoping you and Ialmisry  will help hold the chuppa over us.

Aww, Charles would love that...

Gay Jews and Charles is a romance waiting to happen.
Well the vows will work out perfect, "for richer, for poorer".
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #97 on: April 09, 2015, 12:42:11 AM »
Speaking of money misery and woes of marriage.

How many times have you seen a guy spend every last dime on a women (Or the other way around) trying to win her  affection while she dumps all over him and yet she forever pursues the deadbeat dirtball without a nickel to his name?

Yea, c'mon, we've all seen this at one time or another.

So spare me the "money" part of the equation.

You sound really disillusioned with adult women. Is this why you hang around bus stops and playgrounds so much?
What specifically do you mean by that question?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 12:44:29 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #98 on: April 09, 2015, 03:07:04 AM »
Even though the man in the article is greater than 34, he was single-handedly raising 8 children since his divorce.

A 36 year old man in southern Maryland struggled to take care of his 8 children on a university kitchen worker's salary and child support from his ex-wife.

On Monday, the man and 7 of his 8 children (aged 6 to 15) were found dead from accidental carbon monoxide poisoning.  The electricity was shut off to the residence in October and the man was using a stolen electric meter which the electric utility disabled.  No attempt was made to restore electrical service.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-carbon-monoxide-folo-20150408-story.html

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #99 on: April 09, 2015, 03:13:46 AM »
Even though the man in the article is greater than 34, he was single-handedly raising 8 children since his divorce.

A 36 year old man in southern Maryland struggled to take care of his 8 children on a university kitchen worker's salary and child support from his ex-wife.

On Monday, the man and 7 of his 8 children (aged 6 to 15) were found dead from accidental carbon monoxide poisoning.  The electricity was shut off to the residence in October and the man was using a stolen electric meter which the electric utility disabled.  No attempt was made to restore electrical service.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-carbon-monoxide-folo-20150408-story.html

That didn't work out too well for him.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #100 on: April 09, 2015, 03:26:53 AM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.
Large families have always been a source of strength and security as well as the divine plan for love and companionship.

As the family weakens and becomes smaller, the culture begins in decline,as it is now.

I don't understand why you would believe it's a worthless pursuit.

Tragedy of the commons.

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #101 on: April 09, 2015, 09:17:44 AM »
Also, any economic system that depends on perpetual, exponential population growth for its existence and stability is essentially a Ponzi scheme and is bound to collapse at some point, and the population will eventually transition to something closer to a logistic growth model.

I'm not a Malthusian, but he had a point. Malthus was an apocalyptic pessimist who believed that eventually there'd be a massive catastrophe with famines and disease outbreaks as a result of overpopulation. Whereas, I suspect, the John B. Calhoun "Beautiful Ones" studies are a more accurate model of what actually happens in overpopulated situations (human and animal). The real question, though, is whether the "Beautiful Ones" are going to just pine away and live lonely, dysfunctional lives like hikikomori, or whether they will live productive and meaningful lives in the singleness in which they find themselves. Many of the greatest scientists, artists, poets, etc. were single and/or celibate. Ultimately which of the two options they will follow is up to them, since humans have free will. In that respect, we're better off than Calhoun's mice, because we have a choice.

I think that if the government really wanted to encourage people to have larger families, it would encourage de-urbanization and sponsor the formation of new rural and agrarian communities. But most countries, including China, seem to be doing the reverse, they want people to be more urban and more dependent on technology and are quickly turning rural communities into ghost towns.

(I suspect this same thing will eventually happen in Africa and across much of the Muslim world once those countries urbanize. In some places like Iran it already has, contrary to popular stereotypes about high Muslim birthrates).
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 09:24:12 AM by Minnesotan »
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #102 on: April 09, 2015, 09:23:37 AM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.
Large families have always been a source of strength and security as well as the divine plan for love and companionship.

As the family weakens and becomes smaller, the culture begins in decline,as it is now.

I don't understand why you would believe it's a worthless pursuit.

I don't believe it's a worthless pursuit. I'm exploring the reasons for why so many other people think it's worthless nowadays. You say that the decline of the family has caused a decline in culture, but what caused the decline in the family? My own opinion is that this is because the economy incentivized large families in earlier eras, but now it incentivizes late or no marriage and small families.

Offline Keble

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #103 on: April 09, 2015, 06:12:48 PM »
the millions of young women dreaming about a wedding day can blame those millions of women who made the divorce court nightmare the cautionary tale it is for US bachelors.

I like the perpetual adolescence theory better personally, but hey, those facts, they are a pesky thing.

What every statistic says is that there is an extremely strong correlation between a breakdown of family life in general and income. Those supposedly libertine upper middle class types are actually doing pretty well in the marriage and family department; it's the lower classes who are spawning without benefit of law, and somehow I don't think they have to worry so much about that divorce court stuff.

Offline Papist

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #104 on: April 09, 2015, 06:32:49 PM »
The irony is that the homosexuals are the only ones who still value marriage.
Not really:
Gay Marriage is Redefining Monogomy
"Of all the things that Tom and Tina Average might want for their marriage, one they have quite likely never thought of is innovation. It is the kind of word they might look for in the home improvement pages of the weekend paper or on their favourite consumer website, but not in a marriage guidance brochure.

Yet California author Joe Quirk, for one, believes that “traditional American marriage is in crisis” and a new look is what it needs. What does he have in mind? For a start, “insights” from married gay and lesbian couples. Interviewed by the New York Times, Quirk argues that, “If innovation in marriage is going to occur, it will be spearheaded by homosexual marriages...”

- See more at:http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/open_monogamy/#sthash.bpv6ayB3.dpuf
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #105 on: April 09, 2015, 06:38:14 PM »
I don't like the use/revisioning of the term monogamy mentioned in that article, but I also don't think the author understands what the word infidelity means.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 06:38:47 PM by Justin Kissel »

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #106 on: April 09, 2015, 06:44:28 PM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.
Large families have always been a source of strength and security as well as the divine plan for love and companionship.

As the family weakens and becomes smaller, the culture begins in decline,as it is now.

I don't understand why you would believe it's a worthless pursuit.

I don't believe it's a worthless pursuit. I'm exploring the reasons for why so many other people think it's worthless nowadays. You say that the decline of the family has caused a decline in culture, but what caused the decline in the family? My own opinion is that this is because the economy incentivized large families in earlier eras, but now it incentivizes late or no marriage and small families.

What's wrong with small families as long as their multiplication is steady?
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Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #107 on: April 09, 2015, 07:37:14 PM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.
Large families have always been a source of strength and security as well as the divine plan for love and companionship.

As the family weakens and becomes smaller, the culture begins in decline,as it is now.

I don't understand why you would believe it's a worthless pursuit.

I don't believe it's a worthless pursuit. I'm exploring the reasons for why so many other people think it's worthless nowadays. You say that the decline of the family has caused a decline in culture, but what caused the decline in the family? My own opinion is that this is because the economy incentivized large families in earlier eras, but now it incentivizes late or no marriage and small families.

What's wrong with small families as long as their multiplication is steady?

Are you talking in terms of demographic sustainability? If so, I think replacement level fertility is optimal for a developed society with high standards of living.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #108 on: April 13, 2015, 03:49:18 PM »
I think that if the government really wanted to encourage people to have larger families, it would encourage de-urbanization and sponsor the formation of new rural and agrarian communities. But most countries, including China, seem to be doing the reverse, they want people to be more urban and more dependent on technology and are quickly turning rural communities into ghost towns.

Being a small-time farmer is economically unviable with the ever ongoing increase of scale and technology, which is what averts a malthusian catastrophy. Agrarian societies are something of the past.

If you hadn't noticed, almost all western farmers are recieving subsidies, or worse, are helped with production quotas to keep the price of food artificially high. But who has the heart to abolish those two things?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 03:52:51 PM by Cyrillic »

Offline JamesR

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #109 on: April 14, 2015, 08:13:20 AM »
Seems marriage is truly dying in America.

Seeing that they've a mockery out of it over the last few decades. Especially very recently.


What we have now is a nation of "perpetual adolescents".

Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married


CNSNews.com) –  Seventy percent of American males between the ages of 20 and 34 are not married, and many live in a state of “perpetual adolescence” with ominous consequences for the nation’s future, says Janice Shaw Crouse, author of “Marriage Matters.”
Far too many young men have failed to make a normal progression into adult roles of responsibility and self-sufficiency, roles generally associated with marriage and fatherhood,” Crouse, the  former executive director of the Beverly LaHaye Institute, wrote in a recent Washington Times oped.

The high percentage of bachelors means bleak prospects for millions of young women who dream about a wedding day that may never come. “It’s very, very depressing,” Crouse told CNSNews.com. “They’re not understanding how important it is for the culture, for society, for the strength of the nation to have strong families.”She pointed out that there’s “no data” to back up the common assertion that a lack of jobs during and after the Great Recession is the primary reason so many young men have been reluctant to tie the knot. “The problem with marriage was long before that,” she pointed out.



http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/bachelor-nation-70-men-aged-20-34-are-not-married
the millions of young women dreaming about a wedding day can blame those millions of women who made the divorce court nightmare the cautionary tale it is for US bachelors.
And who enabled/empowered these millions of women?

Yea, that's right, men.

Lovely. Misogyny remains beloved by all here.
Yea? Prove it.

Hello

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #110 on: April 14, 2015, 09:11:08 AM »
Christ is risen!
the millions of young women dreaming about a wedding day can blame those millions of women who made the divorce court nightmare the cautionary tale it is for US bachelors.

I like the perpetual adolescence theory better personally, but hey, those facts, they are a pesky thing.

What every statistic says is that there is an extremely strong correlation between a breakdown of family life in general and income. Those supposedly libertine upper middle class types are actually doing pretty well in the marriage and family department; it's the lower classes who are spawning without benefit of law, and somehow I don't think they have to worry so much about that divorce court stuff.
so many of them think-until the divorce court extends its jurisdiction over them and they find out the hard way that without benefit of law doesn't protect you from the law (as many of them, based on anecdotal evidence, avoid marriage precisely for that reason).
You have some data breaking down the divorce rates within each income level. A quick glance (all I have time for right now) just has percentage of the total number of divorces.

Speaking of pesky facts:adolescents don't marry (free milk strategy).
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 09:18:24 AM by ialmisry »
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #111 on: April 14, 2015, 01:46:05 PM »
Seems marriage is truly dying in America.

Seeing that they've a mockery out of it over the last few decades. Especially very recently.


What we have now is a nation of "perpetual adolescents".

Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married


CNSNews.com) –  Seventy percent of American males between the ages of 20 and 34 are not married, and many live in a state of “perpetual adolescence” with ominous consequences for the nation’s future, says Janice Shaw Crouse, author of “Marriage Matters.”
Far too many young men have failed to make a normal progression into adult roles of responsibility and self-sufficiency, roles generally associated with marriage and fatherhood,” Crouse, the  former executive director of the Beverly LaHaye Institute, wrote in a recent Washington Times oped.

The high percentage of bachelors means bleak prospects for millions of young women who dream about a wedding day that may never come. “It’s very, very depressing,” Crouse told CNSNews.com. “They’re not understanding how important it is for the culture, for society, for the strength of the nation to have strong families.”She pointed out that there’s “no data” to back up the common assertion that a lack of jobs during and after the Great Recession is the primary reason so many young men have been reluctant to tie the knot. “The problem with marriage was long before that,” she pointed out.



http://m.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/bachelor-nation-70-men-aged-20-34-are-not-married
the millions of young women dreaming about a wedding day can blame those millions of women who made the divorce court nightmare the cautionary tale it is for US bachelors.
And who enabled/empowered these millions of women?

Yea, that's right, men.

Lovely. Misogyny remains beloved by all here.
Yea? Prove it.

Hello

Brilliant!
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #112 on: April 14, 2015, 03:19:07 PM »
Speaking of pesky facts:adolescents don't marry (free milk strategy).
And? Not everyone is capable of marriage or want to.

Look man I get it, OC.net is your outlet for anger but I think this place is pretty poor substitute for a support group of divorcees.

I just hope you are staying healthy for your kids and they aren't exposed to the bitterness you write on here.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #113 on: April 14, 2015, 03:36:06 PM »
I imagine it's a combination of two things.

The confusion of defining marriage today, and

The "Why marry when you can shack up?" mentality.

People just don't seem to have the spine to put in the hard work to make a lasting marriage.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #114 on: April 14, 2015, 03:44:35 PM »
I imagine it's a combination of two things.

The confusion of defining marriage today, and

The "Why marry when you can shack up?" mentality.

People just don't seem to have the spine to put in the hard work to make a lasting marriage.
There are married couples I know that aren't technically married for whatever the reasons.

What do you mean by hard work in a marriage?

Marriage isn't the lip gloss you put on a crappy relationship to make it more attractive.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:44:48 PM by nothing »
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married...
« Reply #115 on: April 14, 2015, 03:45:44 PM »
Frankly, I just think men are spineless cowards in this age because of all of the expectations our sex-obsessed culture puts on everyone... Men are expected not to marry, but just to have sex with many, many women.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 03:49:58 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Re: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married, Women on the Other Hand...
« Reply #116 on: April 14, 2015, 03:54:15 PM »
Well, single, marriage-minded men are saying "score" at this news... at least in light of the following somewhat recent study that 85% of young women are looking for marriage.

Frankly, I just think men are spineless cowards in this age because of all of the expectations our sex-obsessed culture puts on everyone... Men are expected not to marry, but just to have sex with many, many women.
I think you should play the field until you are completely satisfied, I'm talking one night stands, friends with benefits, casual encounters and so on.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

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Offline JamesR

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Re: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married...
« Reply #117 on: April 14, 2015, 04:14:29 PM »
Frankly, I just think men are spineless cowards in this age because of all of the expectations our sex-obsessed culture puts on everyone... Men are expected not to marry, but just to have sex with many, many women.

When you put it that way, you make marriage sound like some kind of sexual trade union for women at the expense of men and promiscuous unmarried women. It makes marriage seem like the biggest prostitution of all.

I'm sure some are, but have you ever talked to an unmarried man and asked him why he is unmarried? The majority of them, at least in my experience, say it's because they can't afford the cost or don't feel economically prepared. That said, I think it's probably economic factors that contribute to this more than anything. And that especially goes for men who are traditionally expected to be the providers. Men don't want to fail. It's humiliating. This is something females don't fully understand about us.

Offline Keble

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #118 on: April 14, 2015, 05:06:42 PM »
Christ is risen!
the millions of young women dreaming about a wedding day can blame those millions of women who made the divorce court nightmare the cautionary tale it is for US bachelors.

I like the perpetual adolescence theory better personally, but hey, those facts, they are a pesky thing.

What every statistic says is that there is an extremely strong correlation between a breakdown of family life in general and income. Those supposedly libertine upper middle class types are actually doing pretty well in the marriage and family department; it's the lower classes who are spawning without benefit of law, and somehow I don't think they have to worry so much about that divorce court stuff.
so many of them think-until the divorce court extends its jurisdiction over them and they find out the hard way that without benefit of law doesn't protect you from the law (as many of them, based on anecdotal evidence, avoid marriage precisely for that reason).
You have some data breaking down the divorce rates within each income level. A quick glance (all I have time for right now) just has percentage of the total number of divorces.

After looking at a lot of different studies, what I find is somewhat uncertain. These charts show a possible correlation between higher rates of divorce and lower education and income (and none at all with two-income households) but it's not ironclad; for instance, Wyoming is an outlier on all three charts because a quirk in its family law makes it the Las Vegas of getting UNhitched. Another study finds that lower income people put off getting divorced (that is, they have long separations) because of the expense of divorcing. There is a subcategory of educated women with income who are quite unlikely to get divorced, and this represents a strong shift from earlier patterns.

Divorce numbers are always problematic anyway because of the repeat offenders: even if 50% of marriage end in divorce (which statistic is quite dubious), it doesn't mean that 50% of all people who are married will eventually experience a divorce. Census numbers don't do longitudinal studies, so they don't see this. This is all part of the reason why I looked specifically at people who never marry in the first rounds of this.

Quote
Speaking of pesky facts:adolescents don't marry (free milk strategy).

That's a supposition on your part, not a fact. The reality of the numbers is that the percentage of teens who marry has dropped considerably from its height in the 1950s. Lots of reasons can be posited for that. If you like economic reasons it could be supposed that kids that young can no longer find someone in the right age range with which that can form a self-supporting household. The labor statistics certainly say that they can't (due, for instance, to the failure of the minimum wage to keep up with inflation, and the general disappearance of apprenticeship positions), but that's not proof per se. My experience of kids that age, though, is that most of them would love to get out from under their parents' feet if they could.


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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #119 on: April 14, 2015, 05:11:24 PM »
Yea? Prove it.
You already have, your lack of respect towards women in general is far more telling than any one piece of evidence.

Not only that, but I also reading a lack of self-respect wanting men to be doormats.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline Alxandra

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #120 on: April 14, 2015, 05:11:42 PM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.

I know many Orthodox families that have many children and have pure joy. Our society is sick yes and majority of marriages do not have God at their foundation, but that does not mean we should lose hope. Orthodoxy is about struggling against the spirit of the age and living in God's truth :) A godly marriage and family is one of the most precious and beautiful things I have seen. The husband and wife have true love and joy in their hearts for each other and their children. The family has peace, even during struggles, because they have God at the centre of their family giving them strength and blessings.
Once again my favourite quote about marriage 

"How beautiful, then, the marriage of two Christians, two who are one in hope, one in desire, one in the way of life they follow, one in the religion they practice. They are as brother and sister, both servants of the same Master. Nothing divides them, either in flesh or in spirit. They are, in very truth, two in one flesh; and where there is but one flesh there is also but one spirit. They pray together, they worship together, they fast together; instructing one another, encouraging one another, strengthening one another, side by side they visit God's church and partake of God's Banquet; side by side they face difficulties and persecution, share their consolations. They have no secrets from one another; they never shun each other's company; they never bring sorrow to each other's hearts. Unembarrassed they visit the sick and assist the needy. They give alms without anxiety; they attend the Sacrifice without difficulty; they perform their daily exercises of piety without hindrance. They need not be furtive about making the Sign of the Cross, nor timorous in greeting the brethren, nor silent in asking a blessing of God. Psalms and hymns they sing to one another, striving to see which one of them will chant more beautifully the praises of their Lord. Hearing and seeing this, Christ rejoices. To such as these He gives His peace. Where there are two together, there also He is present; and where He is, there evil is not."
Tertullian:  On Marriage
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 05:12:22 PM by Alxandra »
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Offline Theophania

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #121 on: April 14, 2015, 05:18:22 PM »
How many marriage proposals by PM have you received since you started posting here, Alexandra?
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #122 on: April 14, 2015, 05:22:34 PM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.

I know many Orthodox families that have many children and have pure joy. Our society is sick yes and majority of marriages do not have God at their foundation, but that does not mean we should lose hope. Orthodoxy is about struggling against the spirit of the age and living in God's truth :) A godly marriage and family is one of the most precious and beautiful things I have seen. The husband and wife have true love and joy in their hearts for each other and their children. The family has peace, even during struggles, because they have God at the centre of their family giving them strength and blessings.
Once again my favourite quote about marriage 

"How beautiful, then, the marriage of two Christians, two who are one in hope, one in desire, one in the way of life they follow, one in the religion they practice. They are as brother and sister, both servants of the same Master. Nothing divides them, either in flesh or in spirit. They are, in very truth, two in one flesh; and where there is but one flesh there is also but one spirit. They pray together, they worship together, they fast together; instructing one another, encouraging one another, strengthening one another, side by side they visit God's church and partake of God's Banquet; side by side they face difficulties and persecution, share their consolations. They have no secrets from one another; they never shun each other's company; they never bring sorrow to each other's hearts. Unembarrassed they visit the sick and assist the needy. They give alms without anxiety; they attend the Sacrifice without difficulty; they perform their daily exercises of piety without hindrance. They need not be furtive about making the Sign of the Cross, nor timorous in greeting the brethren, nor silent in asking a blessing of God. Psalms and hymns they sing to one another, striving to see which one of them will chant more beautifully the praises of their Lord. Hearing and seeing this, Christ rejoices. To such as these He gives His peace. Where there are two together, there also He is present; and where He is, there evil is not."
Tertullian:  On Marriage
This is all very beautiful and aspiring, Alxandra, and may God bless you if you can find a suitable partner to practice what Tertullian wrote of.

Frankly what is concerning to me relationships and marriages involves mostly common sense from a respective and loving perspective. I don't believe you need God as a foundation for a happy and successful marriage, but I can see it being beneficial to a degree.

The issue I take is when religion is used as an excuse to justify being trashed by their partner.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #123 on: April 14, 2015, 05:23:16 PM »
How many marriage proposals by PM have you received since you started posting here, Alexandra?
Enough to shut OC.net down for a few days to allocate more storage space.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #124 on: April 14, 2015, 05:25:55 PM »
Christ is risen!
Speaking of pesky facts:adolescents don't marry (free milk strategy).
And? Not everyone is capable of marriage or want to.

Look man I get it, OC.net is your outlet for anger but I think this place is pretty poor substitute for a support group of divorcees.

I just hope you are staying healthy for your kids and they aren't exposed to the bitterness you write on here.
Ah, the armchair psychiatrist are we? OC.net is a pretty poor substitute for a clinic.

Not capable of marriage...is that the only thing you can talk about from experience?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 05:55:56 PM by ialmisry »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #125 on: April 14, 2015, 05:35:28 PM »
Christ is risen!
Christ is risen!
the millions of young women dreaming about a wedding day can blame those millions of women who made the divorce court nightmare the cautionary tale it is for US bachelors.

I like the perpetual adolescence theory better personally, but hey, those facts, they are a pesky thing.

What every statistic says is that there is an extremely strong correlation between a breakdown of family life in general and income. Those supposedly libertine upper middle class types are actually doing pretty well in the marriage and family department; it's the lower classes who are spawning without benefit of law, and somehow I don't think they have to worry so much about that divorce court stuff.
so many of them think-until the divorce court extends its jurisdiction over them and they find out the hard way that without benefit of law doesn't protect you from the law (as many of them, based on anecdotal evidence, avoid marriage precisely for that reason).
You have some data breaking down the divorce rates within each income level. A quick glance (all I have time for right now) just has percentage of the total number of divorces.

After looking at a lot of different studies, what I find is somewhat uncertain. These charts show a possible correlation between higher rates of divorce and lower education and income (and none at all with two-income households) but it's not ironclad; for instance, Wyoming is an outlier on all three charts because a quirk in its family law makes it the Las Vegas of getting UNhitched.

isn't Las Vegas the Las Vegas of getting UNhitched? I recall a few movies (in particular a golden age and its remake) on that theme, and I seem to recall some problems with recognition of its divorces in other states because of their looseness (like notice to the spouse).
Another study finds that lower income people put off getting divorced (that is, they have long separations) because of the expense of divorcing. There is a subcategory of educated women with income who are quite unlikely to get divorced, and this represents a strong shift from earlier patterns.

Divorce numbers are always problematic anyway because of the repeat offenders: even if 50% of marriage end in divorce (which statistic is quite dubious), it doesn't mean that 50% of all people who are married will eventually experience a divorce. Census numbers don't do longitudinal studies, so they don't see this. This is all part of the reason why I looked specifically at people who never marry in the first rounds of this.

Quote
Speaking of pesky facts:adolescents don't marry (free milk strategy).

That's a supposition on your part, not a fact.

just matching your perpetual adolescence theory.
The reality of the numbers is that the percentage of teens who marry has dropped considerably from its height in the 1950s. Lots of reasons can be posited for that. If you like economic reasons it could be supposed that kids that young can no longer find someone in the right age range with which that can form a self-supporting household. The labor statistics certainly say that they can't (due, for instance, to the failure of the minimum wage to keep up with inflation, and the general disappearance of apprenticeship positions), but that's not proof per se. My experience of kids that age, though, is that most of them would love to get out from under their parents' feet if they could.
You didn't specify that your perpetual adolescents were actual adolescents.

As for repeat offenders, you are correct: I know someone divorced three times, twice from the same person.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 05:56:14 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #126 on: April 14, 2015, 05:37:18 PM »
Speaking of pesky facts:adolescents don't marry (free milk strategy).
And? Not everyone is capable of marriage or want to.

Look man I get it, OC.net is your outlet for anger but I think this place is pretty poor substitute for a support group of divorcees.

I just hope you are staying healthy for your kids and they aren't exposed to the bitterness you write on here.
Ah, the armchair psychiatrist are we? OC.net is a pretty poor substitute for a clinic.

Not capable of marriage...is that the only thing you can talk about from experience?
I can get married tomorrow but my current situation is in-flux.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk to you, I really hope for the best in any future relationship you have with another woman and that you also take care of yourself for the sake of your children. Just saying if OC.net serves as a playground for you to be nasty, so be it, but I think there are better alternatives out there.

Where I get lost with you, Charles, and a few others, is how you make this incredible jump from the idealized 18-19 year old that gets married, then has children but nothing in between. There seems to be quite a lack of any considerations on how healthy the relationship is first before getting married.

That's why I think it's important one has experiences with many different partners through casual relationships and encounters. That way hormones don't cloud judgements and observations when it comes time to get serious with having a relationship. Relationships are pretty easy if you like the other person, always being honest, hiding nothing, committed, communicating, etc. I've learned this from what I have personally experienced and also stories from others.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 05:39:23 PM by nothing »
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #127 on: April 14, 2015, 05:47:48 PM »
Christ is risen!
Speaking of pesky facts:adolescents don't marry (free milk strategy).
And? Not everyone is capable of marriage or want to.

Look man I get it, OC.net is your outlet for anger but I think this place is pretty poor substitute for a support group of divorcees.

I just hope you are staying healthy for your kids and they aren't exposed to the bitterness you write on here.
Ah, the armchair psychiatrist are we? OC.net is a pretty poor substitute for a clinic.

Not capable of marriage...is that the only thing you can talk about from experience?
I can get married tomorrow but my current situation is in-flux.

I wasn't trying to be a jerk to you, I really hope for the best in any future relationship you have with another woman and that you also take care of yourself for the sake of your children. Just saying if OC.net serves as a playground for you to be nasty, so be it, but I think there are better alternatives out there.

Where I get lost with you, Charles, and a few others, is how you make this incredible jump from the idealized 18-19 year old that gets married, then has children but nothing in between. There seems to be quite a lack of any considerations on how healthy the relationship is first before getting married.

That's why I think it's important one has experiences with many different partners through casual relationships and encounters. That way hormones don't cloud judgements and observations when it comes time to get serious with having a relationship. Relationships are pretty easy if you like the other person, always being honest, hiding nothing, committed, communicating, etc. I've learned this from what I have personally experienced and also stories from others.
ah, more nothing.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 05:56:41 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #128 on: April 14, 2015, 06:00:10 PM »
ah, more nothing.
Yeah that's why I'm perplexed on what makes a marriage such "hard work". "Hard work" as in staying attracted to your partner a decade or two from now and not falling into the temptation on having an affair? That shouldn't be an issue if you are satisfied with how many women you've had in the past. And BTW that doesn't mean I agree with JamesR that men are polygamous by nature. That's nonsense.

I think the main reason men have affairs is because they didn't have that kind of experience before they got into a serious relationship, so they end up badly hurting their partner by cheating. Sure there's probably some underlying characteristics involved, like both men and women can be toxic people who aren't at all ready to have serious relationships.

Problem I see isn't a decline in marriage and it's not about an increased promiscuity either.

You'll find life easier to go through if it's not taken so seriously all the time. Anger is a waste of energy frankly, but if you need to express it, do it online (like you already do evidently).

Seek joy and pleasure in real-life.
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— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #129 on: April 14, 2015, 07:54:50 PM »
I like how "nothing" isn't even trying to hide it anymore, right down to the sparkly gifs of pop culture icons. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline Alxandra

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #130 on: April 14, 2015, 08:20:11 PM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.

I know many Orthodox families that have many children and have pure joy. Our society is sick yes and majority of marriages do not have God at their foundation, but that does not mean we should lose hope. Orthodoxy is about struggling against the spirit of the age and living in God's truth :) A godly marriage and family is one of the most precious and beautiful things I have seen. The husband and wife have true love and joy in their hearts for each other and their children. The family has peace, even during struggles, because they have God at the centre of their family giving them strength and blessings.
Once again my favourite quote about marriage 

"How beautiful, then, the marriage of two Christians, two who are one in hope, one in desire, one in the way of life they follow, one in the religion they practice. They are as brother and sister, both servants of the same Master. Nothing divides them, either in flesh or in spirit. They are, in very truth, two in one flesh; and where there is but one flesh there is also but one spirit. They pray together, they worship together, they fast together; instructing one another, encouraging one another, strengthening one another, side by side they visit God's church and partake of God's Banquet; side by side they face difficulties and persecution, share their consolations. They have no secrets from one another; they never shun each other's company; they never bring sorrow to each other's hearts. Unembarrassed they visit the sick and assist the needy. They give alms without anxiety; they attend the Sacrifice without difficulty; they perform their daily exercises of piety without hindrance. They need not be furtive about making the Sign of the Cross, nor timorous in greeting the brethren, nor silent in asking a blessing of God. Psalms and hymns they sing to one another, striving to see which one of them will chant more beautifully the praises of their Lord. Hearing and seeing this, Christ rejoices. To such as these He gives His peace. Where there are two together, there also He is present; and where He is, there evil is not."
Tertullian:  On Marriage
This is all very beautiful and aspiring, Alxandra, and may God bless you if you can find a suitable partner to practice what Tertullian wrote of.

Frankly what is concerning to me relationships and marriages involves mostly common sense from a respective and loving perspective. I don't believe you need God as a foundation for a happy and successful marriage, but I can see it being beneficial to a degree.

The issue I take is when religion is used as an excuse to justify being trashed by their partner.

Thank you for the kind words, but how can a marriage be complete without God at the foundation who designed marriage Himself? A marriage not centered around God is empty.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 08:36:37 PM by Alxandra »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #131 on: April 14, 2015, 09:19:24 PM »
Christos anesti!
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.

I know many Orthodox families that have many children and have pure joy. Our society is sick yes and majority of marriages do not have God at their foundation, but that does not mean we should lose hope. Orthodoxy is about struggling against the spirit of the age and living in God's truth :) A godly marriage and family is one of the most precious and beautiful things I have seen. The husband and wife have true love and joy in their hearts for each other and their children. The family has peace, even during struggles, because they have God at the centre of their family giving them strength and blessings.
Once again my favourite quote about marriage 

"How beautiful, then, the marriage of two Christians, two who are one in hope, one in desire, one in the way of life they follow, one in the religion they practice. They are as brother and sister, both servants of the same Master. Nothing divides them, either in flesh or in spirit. They are, in very truth, two in one flesh; and where there is but one flesh there is also but one spirit. They pray together, they worship together, they fast together; instructing one another, encouraging one another, strengthening one another, side by side they visit God's church and partake of God's Banquet; side by side they face difficulties and persecution, share their consolations. They have no secrets from one another; they never shun each other's company; they never bring sorrow to each other's hearts. Unembarrassed they visit the sick and assist the needy. They give alms without anxiety; they attend the Sacrifice without difficulty; they perform their daily exercises of piety without hindrance. They need not be furtive about making the Sign of the Cross, nor timorous in greeting the brethren, nor silent in asking a blessing of God. Psalms and hymns they sing to one another, striving to see which one of them will chant more beautifully the praises of their Lord. Hearing and seeing this, Christ rejoices. To such as these He gives His peace. Where there are two together, there also He is present; and where He is, there evil is not."
Tertullian:  On Marriage
This is all very beautiful and aspiring, Alxandra, and may God bless you if you can find a suitable partner to practice what Tertullian wrote of.

Frankly what is concerning to me relationships and marriages involves mostly common sense from a respective and loving perspective. I don't believe you need God as a foundation for a happy and successful marriage, but I can see it being beneficial to a degree.

The issue I take is when religion is used as an excuse to justify being trashed by their partner.

Thank you for the kind words, but how can a marriage be complete without God at the foundation who designed marriage Himself? A marriage not centered around God is empty.
IOW, nothing.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 09:19:47 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #132 on: April 14, 2015, 09:20:26 PM »
Christ is risen!
I like how "nothing" isn't even trying to hide it anymore, right down to the sparkly gifs of pop culture icons.
yes...seems familiar.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 09:37:09 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #133 on: April 14, 2015, 10:47:54 PM »
The irony is that the homosexuals are the only ones who still value marriage.
Not really:
Gay Marriage is Redefining Monogomy
"Of all the things that Tom and Tina Average might want for their marriage, one they have quite likely never thought of is innovation. It is the kind of word they might look for in the home improvement pages of the weekend paper or on their favourite consumer website, but not in a marriage guidance brochure.

Yet California author Joe Quirk, for one, believes that “traditional American marriage is in crisis” and a new look is what it needs. What does he have in mind? For a start, “insights” from married gay and lesbian couples. Interviewed by the New York Times, Quirk argues that, “If innovation in marriage is going to occur, it will be spearheaded by homosexual marriages...”

- See more at:http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/view/open_monogamy/#sthash.bpv6ayB3.dpuf

Just bring adelphopoesis back already....
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #134 on: April 15, 2015, 01:01:21 AM »
Christ is risen!
I like how "nothing" isn't even trying to hide it anymore, right down to the sparkly gifs of pop culture icons.
yes...seems familiar.

Truly He is risen!  And not just Him...
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).