Author Topic: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....  (Read 19169 times)

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Offline hecma925

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #135 on: April 15, 2015, 01:11:15 AM »
Christ is risen!
I like how "nothing" isn't even trying to hide it anymore, right down to the sparkly gifs of pop culture icons.
yes...seems familiar.

Truly He is risen!  And not just Him...

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Offline Indocern

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #136 on: April 15, 2015, 03:09:30 AM »
CM, my point is based on the premise that, on average, people are not saints, but selfish bastards. That's why capitalism works better than socialism. So people are, on average, not going to invest in a family because it's the right thing to do, but because they see some selfish benefit to it, e.g. lots of forced child labor. If children are nothing but resource drains for 20 years or more, people on average are going to say to themselves "Screw this. I'mma go party."
Forced child labor? Where in the world do you live? On a farm in the 18th century?

Sorry, but just about everyone I know, including myself never once considered their children "resource drains".

Pain in the butts some times, but, weren't we all at one time?

But I do get your party analogy and everyone one of them regret when they're alone when their older.

Gonna be a lot of lonely old farts around here in thirty years.

That's exactly my point. We're no longer living in an 18th century agrarian society, so marrying early and raising large families is no longer the norm. Only sweethearts like yourself still find it a worthwhile pursuit.

I know many Orthodox families that have many children and have pure joy. Our society is sick yes and majority of marriages do not have God at their foundation, but that does not mean we should lose hope. Orthodoxy is about struggling against the spirit of the age and living in God's truth :) A godly marriage and family is one of the most precious and beautiful things I have seen. The husband and wife have true love and joy in their hearts for each other and their children. The family has peace, even during struggles, because they have God at the centre of their family giving them strength and blessings.
Once again my favourite quote about marriage 

"How beautiful, then, the marriage of two Christians, two who are one in hope, one in desire, one in the way of life they follow, one in the religion they practice. They are as brother and sister, both servants of the same Master. Nothing divides them, either in flesh or in spirit. They are, in very truth, two in one flesh; and where there is but one flesh there is also but one spirit. They pray together, they worship together, they fast together; instructing one another, encouraging one another, strengthening one another, side by side they visit God's church and partake of God's Banquet; side by side they face difficulties and persecution, share their consolations. They have no secrets from one another; they never shun each other's company; they never bring sorrow to each other's hearts. Unembarrassed they visit the sick and assist the needy. They give alms without anxiety; they attend the Sacrifice without difficulty; they perform their daily exercises of piety without hindrance. They need not be furtive about making the Sign of the Cross, nor timorous in greeting the brethren, nor silent in asking a blessing of God. Psalms and hymns they sing to one another, striving to see which one of them will chant more beautifully the praises of their Lord. Hearing and seeing this, Christ rejoices. To such as these He gives His peace. Where there are two together, there also He is present; and where He is, there evil is not."
Tertullian:  On Marriage
This is all very beautiful and aspiring, Alxandra, and may God bless you if you can find a suitable partner to practice what Tertullian wrote of.

Frankly what is concerning to me relationships and marriages involves mostly common sense from a respective and loving perspective. I don't believe you need God as a foundation for a happy and successful marriage, but I can see it being beneficial to a degree.

The issue I take is when religion is used as an excuse to justify being trashed by their partner.

Thank you for the kind words, but how can a marriage be complete without God at the foundation who designed marriage Himself? A marriage not centered around God is empty.

There can't be have good marriage without God, and also there can't be good marriage if you haved boyfriends/girlsfriend before marriage.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 03:14:39 AM by Indocern »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #137 on: April 15, 2015, 04:51:06 AM »
What percentage (I don't need to say "of men") in this thread are single?
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #138 on: April 15, 2015, 05:24:36 AM »
What percentage (I don't need to say "of men") in this thread are single?

>70%
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #139 on: April 15, 2015, 09:31:17 AM »
There can't be have good marriage without God, and also there can't be good marriage if you haved boyfriends/girlsfriend before marriage.
Of course there can be good marriages without God, but you saying "good" is pretty vague. Besides, marriages in America function completely different than they do in a religious context. They are about legal protection of propety rights and vulnerable persons, like children (if the marriage is to be dissolved).

For Alxandra and most on this board the meaning of marriage takes on a different significance, but to claim marriages without God are empty seems strange to me. Are not many marriages in this country "founded" on the pretense of having God at the center of it? Yet half of them end in divorce, so that statement is a joke.

I wasn't saying having many partners guarantees having a successful and happy marriage. I'm not a pessimist in saying that all the expeirence doesn't matter to actually getting married. On the contrary, if you suck at relationships how on earth would you be ready for a marriage? I've had my share of failures and successes, but the instition of marriage isn't something I care about right now. It has nothing to do with having a spine.

The problem is I don't want to over generalize here, some people may be utter oblivious to problems in their relationship and move forward with getting married only to find it ruined later on. Look at some of the married people on this board that have brought to light some of their issues within the marriage unbeknownst to them. If they knew it, they should probably get into marriage counseling. Praying about saving your marriage isn't going to work.

It might take you 2 or 50 women before you find a partner who is ready to be wed. Whats the problem with that? Try talking to a lot of them, get some dates, watch for the red flags, etc. I think vamrat is wrong that you have to roll with whatever is "in stock" at the time, if that means "dating a turd". Maybe in Nebraska there's a drought of single women, although I doubt it. You might stumble on a few crazy toxic girls while you date, but if you notice beforehand you don't have to take it further. Why settle for less? Take vamrat for example, besides his ridiculous gun fetishism and being a conservative poophead, he seems like a guy that would do anything for his partner, from what I've read seems rather genuine too. It would bother me if he falls for some crazy girl that makes his life a living hell or wont reciprocate the devotion he has for the other. If that was ever the case, id tell him to end it and move on. Life is too short to put up with BS and people being awful. I'd rather roll single then remain in an unhappy relationship.

Anyway I'm rambling what were we talking about again? Oh empty marriages without God, yeah doesn't make sense at all to me.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #140 on: April 15, 2015, 09:36:11 AM »
What percentage (I don't need to say "of men") in this thread are single?
What's your point? Single men can't talk about marriage? Why not?
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Offline vamrat

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #141 on: April 15, 2015, 09:39:27 AM »
What percentage (I don't need to say "of men") in this thread are single?

>70%

Hopefully right around 70%, as that would keep the information pertinent.  Though the input of married men and women (married or unmarried) is interesting as it gives good peripheral data.

I would be especially interested in reading what unmarried women thought the reasons were.  Since polygamy isn't formally legal, and the vast majority of women I have known don't care for age differences getting into the decades, if 70% of men are unmarried, you'd expect that the number of unmarried women in the same age range is pretty similar. 
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #142 on: April 15, 2015, 09:43:55 AM »
What percentage (I don't need to say "of men") in this thread are single?
What's your point? Single men can't talk about marriage? Why not?

If they can't, it might be a good indicator why 70% are unmarried.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #143 on: April 15, 2015, 10:15:51 AM »
I think I'm much more aware now that people are synonymous with excrement. I've yet to meet a genuine man that isn't a phony or fraud or doesn't lie. Everyone is a liar, murderer and blasphemer. So when Charles and such tell others to "man up", I don't know what that means. Look at some of the comments around here, men are horrible. The things they say about women, the way they treat them or how they should be. Subjecting women as mere means to initiate a boner.

Actually I've found this thread to be quite humorous.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 10:16:19 AM by katherineofdixie »
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Offline Indocern

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #144 on: April 15, 2015, 10:38:40 AM »
There can't be have good marriage without God, and also there can't be good marriage if you haved boyfriends/girlsfriend before marriage.
Of course there can be good marriages without God, but you saying "good" is pretty vague. Besides, marriages in America function completely different than they do in a religious context. They are about legal protection of propety rights and vulnerable persons, like children (if the marriage is to be dissolved).

For Alxandra and most on this board the meaning of marriage takes on a different significance, but to claim marriages without God are empty seems strange to me. Are not many marriages in this country "founded" on the pretense of having God at the center of it? Yet half of them end in divorce, so that statement is a joke.

I wasn't saying having many partners guarantees having a successful and happy marriage. I'm not a pessimist in saying that all the expeirence doesn't matter to actually getting married. On the contrary, if you suck at relationships how on earth would you be ready for a marriage? I've had my share of failures and successes, but the instition of marriage isn't something I care about right now. It has nothing to do with having a spine.

The problem is I don't want to over generalize here, some people may be utter oblivious to problems in their relationship and move forward with getting married only to find it ruined later on. Look at some of the married people on this board that have brought to light some of their issues within the marriage unbeknownst to them. If they knew it, they should probably get into marriage counseling. Praying about saving your marriage isn't going to work.

It might take you 2 or 50 women before you find a partner who is ready to be wed. Whats the problem with that? Try talking to a lot of them, get some dates, watch for the red flags, etc. I think vamrat is wrong that you have to roll with whatever is "in stock" at the time, if that means "dating a turd". Maybe in Nebraska there's a drought of single women, although I doubt it. You might stumble on a few crazy toxic girls while you date, but if you notice beforehand you don't have to take it further. Why settle for less? Take vamrat for example, besides his ridiculous gun fetishism and being a conservative poophead, he seems like a guy that would do anything for his partner, from what I've read seems rather genuine too. It would bother me if he falls for some crazy girl that makes his life a living hell or wont reciprocate the devotion he has for the other. If that was ever the case, id tell him to end it and move on. Life is too short to put up with BS and people being awful. I'd rather roll single then remain in an unhappy relationship.

Anyway I'm rambling what were we talking about again? Oh empty marriages without God, yeah doesn't make sense at all to me.

You can't marry a defiled woman you must marry virgin.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 10:39:59 AM by Indocern »

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #145 on: April 15, 2015, 10:51:58 AM »
LOL, nah.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #146 on: April 15, 2015, 11:02:29 AM »
You can't marry a defiled woman you must marry virgin.

Gross.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #147 on: April 15, 2015, 11:49:49 AM »
There can't be have good marriage without God, and also there can't be good marriage if you haved boyfriends/girlsfriend before marriage.
Of course there can be good marriages without God, but you saying "good" is pretty vague. Besides, marriages in America function completely different than they do in a religious context. They are about legal protection of propety rights and vulnerable persons, like children (if the marriage is to be dissolved).

For Alxandra and most on this board the meaning of marriage takes on a different significance, but to claim marriages without God are empty seems strange to me. Are not many marriages in this country "founded" on the pretense of having God at the center of it? Yet half of them end in divorce, so that statement is a joke.

I wasn't saying having many partners guarantees having a successful and happy marriage. I'm not a pessimist in saying that all the expeirence doesn't matter to actually getting married. On the contrary, if you suck at relationships how on earth would you be ready for a marriage? I've had my share of failures and successes, but the instition of marriage isn't something I care about right now. It has nothing to do with having a spine.

The problem is I don't want to over generalize here, some people may be utter oblivious to problems in their relationship and move forward with getting married only to find it ruined later on. Look at some of the married people on this board that have brought to light some of their issues within the marriage unbeknownst to them. If they knew it, they should probably get into marriage counseling. Praying about saving your marriage isn't going to work.

It might take you 2 or 50 women before you find a partner who is ready to be wed. Whats the problem with that? Try talking to a lot of them, get some dates, watch for the red flags, etc. I think vamrat is wrong that you have to roll with whatever is "in stock" at the time, if that means "dating a turd". Maybe in Nebraska there's a drought of single women, although I doubt it. You might stumble on a few crazy toxic girls while you date, but if you notice beforehand you don't have to take it further. Why settle for less? Take vamrat for example, besides his ridiculous gun fetishism and being a conservative poophead, he seems like a guy that would do anything for his partner, from what I've read seems rather genuine too. It would bother me if he falls for some crazy girl that makes his life a living hell or wont reciprocate the devotion he has for the other. If that was ever the case, id tell him to end it and move on. Life is too short to put up with BS and people being awful. I'd rather roll single then remain in an unhappy relationship.

Anyway I'm rambling what were we talking about again? Oh empty marriages without God, yeah doesn't make sense at all to me.

You can't marry a defiled woman you must marry virgin.

Tell that to Hosea the prophet....
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 11:50:57 AM by Minnesotan »
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #148 on: April 15, 2015, 11:54:07 AM »
What percentage (I don't need to say "of men") in this thread are single?

>70%

Hopefully right around 70%, as that would keep the information pertinent.

Only if it's 70% of men aged 20-34. Boys and old codgers reasonably mature folk don't count.

I would be especially interested in reading what unmarried women thought the reasons were.  Since polygamy isn't formally legal, and the vast majority of women I have known don't care for age differences getting into the decades, if 70% of men are unmarried, you'd expect that the number of unmarried women in the same age range is pretty similar.

Again, 70% of men between 20 and 34. The bride of a 35-year-old doesn't need a big age difference. Plus, more and more women marry older than they used to as well. They want to get their careers somewhere before they are halted by childbearing.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #149 on: April 15, 2015, 12:01:42 PM »
What percentage (I don't need to say "of men") in this thread are single?
What's your point? Single men can't talk about marriage? Why not?

Oh you're talking about it alright.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #150 on: April 15, 2015, 12:15:17 PM »
What percentage (I don't need to say "of men") in this thread are single?
What's your point? Single men can't talk about marriage? Why not?

Oh you're talking about it alright.
I'm not single though. Let me guess, the " unmarried", as ialmisry puts it, cannot speak of which they never had? Seems utterly ludicrous to me. Can't help but think there is some self defense going on there.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 12:15:57 PM by nothing »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #151 on: April 15, 2015, 12:20:31 PM »
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"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #152 on: April 15, 2015, 12:35:35 PM »
I'm 36, technically a widower, never divorced, and was a virgin when I married... so I get 4 votes, yes?   

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #153 on: April 15, 2015, 12:37:49 PM »
I'm 36, technically a widower, never divorced, and was a virgin when I married... so I get 4 votes, yes?   
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #154 on: April 15, 2015, 01:44:50 PM »
What percentage (I don't need to say "of men") in this thread are single?

>70%

Hopefully right around 70%, as that would keep the information pertinent.

Only if it's 70% of men aged 20-34. Boys and old codgers reasonably mature folk don't count.

I am 30 and unmarried.  FWIW, both extremes in opinions represented here ring true to some degree.  I can only comment on my own experiences and those of people I have spoken to, but all in all, the little boys and old codgers do seem to have some grasp on the situation of men like me. 

Nothing's analysis of my dating experiences is charitable in some ways and uncharitable in others.  Regardless, it is reasonably accurate.  I hope to comment on it sincerely at some point.  Might take a while though.  Or not.  We'll see.

Quote
I would be especially interested in reading what unmarried women thought the reasons were.  Since polygamy isn't formally legal, and the vast majority of women I have known don't care for age differences getting into the decades, if 70% of men are unmarried, you'd expect that the number of unmarried women in the same age range is pretty similar.

Again, 70% of men between 20 and 34. The bride of a 35-year-old doesn't need a big age difference. Plus, more and more women marry older than they used to as well. They want to get their careers somewhere before they are halted by childbearing.

What I meant by "don't care for age differences" is that if the percentage of women unmarried was massively lower than the percentage of unmarried men then something would have to account for it.  One man marrying multiple women would (though not likely) and we probably are not seeing many men over 34 marrying vast swathes of the women 20-34, especially the lower you go.  Women 30-34 marrying men over 34 is probably likely, but I would imagine the percentages go down in the 20-26 range for women with partners 35 and older. 

Women marrying when they are older should show a high percentage of unmarried women in the 20-34 range.  I don't have good data, regardless.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #155 on: April 15, 2015, 01:46:07 PM »
So many jokes about officious eunuchs spring to mind, but probably shouldn't be repeated.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 01:46:41 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #156 on: April 15, 2015, 02:27:43 PM »
Women marrying when they are older should show a high percentage of unmarried women in the 20-34 range.  I don't have good data, regardless.

Good data is hard to come by... Still, there will always be more unmarried women than men, simply because there are more women living than men. Most recent data I was able to find was from 2010, showing a population distribution of 153 million men to 157 million women. That's 4 million women without any chance of partnering, right there.

In ages past, even down to a couple of generations ago, when a woman's social status depended entirely on her marriageability, spinsters were simply invisible. That's only slowly changing.
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #157 on: April 15, 2015, 03:10:19 PM »
Women marrying when they are older should show a high percentage of unmarried women in the 20-34 range.  I don't have good data, regardless.

Good data is hard to come by... Still, there will always be more unmarried women than men, simply because there are more women living than men. Most recent data I was able to find was from 2010, showing a population distribution of 153 million men to 157 million women. That's 4 million women without any chance of partnering, right there.

In ages past, even down to a couple of generations ago, when a woman's social status depended entirely on her marriageability, spinsters were simply invisible. That's only slowly changing.

I think you are right on the fact that unmarried women are not so invisible and there have been a considerable number of articles written by women discussing this topic.  But the numbers still seem wildly out of order.  4 million is a large number in human terms, each one possessing a soul, thoughts, hopes, dreams, and emotions, but as a statistic we are talking about roughly 6% of women, across all age groups.  Men tend to die in larger numbers, are imprisoned more frequently, and probably make up a larger percentage of expats (totally pulling this one out of my bum...) and this could account for some of the discrepancy.  But 70% is an astoundingly large number, and I don't think death tolls in our current time***, imprisonment rates, and immigration can account for this.

EDIT: *** Death tolls due to wars are in interesting historical phenomenon, such as after the American Civil War or WWI in Europe, and pretty much the early 20th Century History as a whole in Russia...  Unmarried women in these time periods are noticable, and there was probably a much higher percentage of married men...but that is a separate topic, I think!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 03:13:17 PM by vamrat »
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #158 on: April 15, 2015, 04:50:22 PM »
I think you are right on the fact that unmarried women are not so invisible and there have been a considerable number of articles written by women discussing this topic.  But the numbers still seem wildly out of order.  4 million is a large number in human terms, each one possessing a soul, thoughts, hopes, dreams, and emotions, but as a statistic we are talking about roughly 6% of women, across all age groups.  Men tend to die in larger numbers, are imprisoned more frequently, and probably make up a larger percentage of expats (totally pulling this one out of my bum...) and this could account for some of the discrepancy.  But 70% is an astoundingly large number, and I don't think death tolls in our current time***, imprisonment rates, and immigration can account for this.

EDIT: *** Death tolls due to wars are in interesting historical phenomenon, such as after the American Civil War or WWI in Europe, and pretty much the early 20th Century History as a whole in Russia...  Unmarried women in these time periods are noticable, and there was probably a much higher percentage of married men...but that is a separate topic, I think!

The discrepancy is a thoroughly modern phenomenon. Until well into the 20th century, before antibiotics and effective sterilisation, nearly 50% of women died of complications in childbirth. The number of war widows could go up and down, depending on politics, but there was never a shortage of widowers with small children looking for a second or third wife. Within a couple of generations, maternal death risk has gone down to virtually nil, making for a lot fewer ready and willing men, even without factoring in the continuing male tendency towards Darwin Award-winning behaviours.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #159 on: April 15, 2015, 04:54:09 PM »
isn't Las Vegas the Las Vegas of getting UNhitched? I recall a few movies (in particular a golden age and its remake) on that theme, and I seem to recall some problems with recognition of its divorces in other states because of their looseness (like notice to the spouse).

The thing that makes Wyoming different is that it lacks the waiting periods for divorce that every other state has.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #160 on: April 15, 2015, 04:54:31 PM »
EDIT: *** Death tolls due to wars are in interesting historical phenomenon, such as after the American Civil War or WWI in Europe, and pretty much the early 20th Century History as a whole in Russia...  Unmarried women in these time periods are noticable, and there was probably a much higher percentage of married men...but that is a separate topic, I think!

It was even better in Germany in the aftermath of the Thirty Years War. The law of supply and demand is true for the marriage market as well.

It will be very interesting to see what will happen to China - since there's a huge surplus of men, considering that female babies were aborted or exposed because of the one child policy. If anything's bad for stability it's poor young men in autocratic countries who can't find a wife.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 05:00:27 PM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #161 on: April 15, 2015, 04:58:28 PM »
Until well into the 20th century, before antibiotics and effective sterilisation, nearly 50% of women died of complications in childbirth.

I would really, really need to see a source for that. I don't think even during the Black Death or the Blitzkrieg fifty percent of women were dying.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #162 on: April 15, 2015, 05:16:42 PM »
Until well into the 20th century, before antibiotics and effective sterilisation, nearly 50% of women died of complications in childbirth.

I would really, really need to see a source for that. I don't think even during the Black Death or the Blitzkrieg fifty percent of women were dying.

Not consistently, of course, whether by location or time period, but the figure has repeatedly risen to that level, depending on circumstances. Without antibiotics, an infection would be invariably fatal. Before effective sterilisation, a C-section was practically a death sentence. All those things we take for granted today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_mortality_rates_of_puerperal_fever
http://mentalfloss.com/article/50513/historical-horror-childbirth
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science_of_longevity/2013/09/death_in_childbirth_doctors_increased_maternal_mortality_in_the_20th_century.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1139579/pdf/medhist00072-0005.pdf
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #163 on: April 15, 2015, 05:20:54 PM »
Until well into the 20th century, before antibiotics and effective sterilisation, nearly 50% of women died of complications in childbirth.

I would really, really need to see a source for that. I don't think even during the Black Death or the Blitzkrieg fifty percent of women were dying.

Very near to 100% of women die, so 50% during child birthing doesn't seem odd (I don't know about accurate) for times when large families were the norm and death in such situations much higher.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 05:21:19 PM by Justin Kissel »

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #164 on: April 15, 2015, 05:24:26 PM »
Until well into the 20th century, before antibiotics and effective sterilisation, nearly 50% of women died of complications in childbirth.

I would really, really need to see a source for that. I don't think even during the Black Death or the Blitzkrieg fifty percent of women were dying.

Not consistently, of course, whether by location or time period, but the figure has repeatedly risen to that level, depending on circumstances. Without antibiotics, an infection would be invariably fatal. Before effective sterilisation, a C-section was practically a death sentence. All those things we take for granted today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_mortality_rates_of_puerperal_fever
http://mentalfloss.com/article/50513/historical-horror-childbirth
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science_of_longevity/2013/09/death_in_childbirth_doctors_increased_maternal_mortality_in_the_20th_century.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1139579/pdf/medhist00072-0005.pdf

Actually, my Roman history professor made a huge point of discussing infant and maternal mortality rates.  Caesar's daughter (and wife of Pompey Magnus) died in childbirth, as one famous example.

Until you brought it up, I had forgotten this.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #165 on: April 15, 2015, 05:26:41 PM »
Until well into the 20th century, before antibiotics and effective sterilisation, nearly 50% of women died of complications in childbirth.

I would really, really need to see a source for that. I don't think even during the Black Death or the Blitzkrieg fifty percent of women were dying.

Not consistently, of course, whether by location or time period, but the figure has repeatedly risen to that level, depending on circumstances. Without antibiotics, an infection would be invariably fatal. Before effective sterilisation, a C-section was practically a death sentence. All those things we take for granted today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_mortality_rates_of_puerperal_fever
http://mentalfloss.com/article/50513/historical-horror-childbirth
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science_of_longevity/2013/09/death_in_childbirth_doctors_increased_maternal_mortality_in_the_20th_century.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1139579/pdf/medhist00072-0005.pdf

Actually, my Roman history professor made a huge point of discussing infant and maternal mortality rates.  Caesar's daughter (and wife of Pompey Magnus) died in childbirth, as one famous example.

Until you brought it up, I had forgotten this.

Average life expectancy for Roman women was 27.

We forget too easily.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #166 on: April 15, 2015, 05:31:54 PM »
Utter nonsense, Arachne.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #167 on: April 15, 2015, 05:32:00 PM »
By 50% of women, you do mean that 50% of women who had complications died, not 50% of existing women died whilst giving birth...as in pregnancy was Russian Roulette with three rounds, right?  I think that might be where Porter's confusion is coming from.

As for life expectancy, my professor brought up the point that infant mortality was very high, thus the average age is dropped significantly when a decent percentage die at age 0.  (E.G. - in a population of 2, when one dies at birth and the other at 80 the life expectancy for that population is 40.)
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #168 on: April 15, 2015, 05:32:10 PM »
EDIT: *** Death tolls due to wars are in interesting historical phenomenon, such as after the American Civil War or WWI in Europe, and pretty much the early 20th Century History as a whole in Russia...  Unmarried women in these time periods are noticable, and there was probably a much higher percentage of married men...but that is a separate topic, I think!

It was even better in Germany in the aftermath of the Thirty Years War. The law of supply and demand is true for the marriage market as well.

It will be very interesting to see what will happen to China - since there's a huge surplus of men, considering that female babies were aborted or exposed because of the one child policy. If anything's bad for stability it's poor young men in autocratic countries who can't find a wife.
Or the Japanese who aren't having sex.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #169 on: April 15, 2015, 05:37:35 PM »
EDIT: *** Death tolls due to wars are in interesting historical phenomenon, such as after the American Civil War or WWI in Europe, and pretty much the early 20th Century History as a whole in Russia...  Unmarried women in these time periods are noticable, and there was probably a much higher percentage of married men...but that is a separate topic, I think!

It was even better in Germany in the aftermath of the Thirty Years War. The law of supply and demand is true for the marriage market as well.

It will be very interesting to see what will happen to China - since there's a huge surplus of men, considering that female babies were aborted or exposed because of the one child policy. If anything's bad for stability it's poor young men in autocratic countries who can't find a wife.
Or the Japanese who aren't having sex.

Look (or, rather, not look) at all the wicked things the Japanese do and create to get themselves off instead. The Marquis de Sade is nothing compared to them. The Japanese didn't stop having sex, they transcended it.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 05:41:13 PM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #170 on: April 15, 2015, 05:41:05 PM »
EDIT: *** Death tolls due to wars are in interesting historical phenomenon, such as after the American Civil War or WWI in Europe, and pretty much the early 20th Century History as a whole in Russia...  Unmarried women in these time periods are noticable, and there was probably a much higher percentage of married men...but that is a separate topic, I think!

It was even better in Germany in the aftermath of the Thirty Years War. The law of supply and demand is true for the marriage market as well.

It will be very interesting to see what will happen to China - since there's a huge surplus of men, considering that female babies were aborted or exposed because of the one child policy. If anything's bad for stability it's poor young men in autocratic countries who can't find a wife.
Or the Japanese who aren't having sex.

Look at all the wicked things the Japanese do and create to get themselves off instead. The Marquis de Sade is nothing compared to them. The Japanese didn't stop having sex, they transcended it.
Have you read this article? It's pretty crazy.

Why have young people in Japan stopped having sex?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

"A survey in 2011 found that 61% of unmarried men and 49% of women aged 18-34 were not in any kind of romantic relationship, a rise of almost 10% from five years earlier. Another study found that a third of people under 30 had never dated at all. (There are no figures for same-sex relationships.) "

"A survey earlier this year by the Japan Family Planning Association (JFPA) found that 45% of women aged 16-24 "were not interested in or despised sexual contact". More than a quarter of men felt the same way."

"Aoyama cites one man in his early 30s, a virgin, who can't get sexually aroused unless he watches female robots on a game similar to Power Rangers. "

ROFL
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #171 on: April 15, 2015, 05:41:17 PM »
By 50% of women, you do mean that 50% of women who had complications died, not 50% of existing women died whilst giving birth...as in pregnancy was Russian Roulette with three rounds, right?  I think that might be where Porter's confusion is coming from.

It depends on the complications. We're not talking about losing a pint of blood. It was kinda hard to counter septicemia before antibiotics were invented, or survive a C-section before aseptic conditions and blood transfusion made abdominal surgery relatively safe.
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #172 on: April 15, 2015, 05:41:41 PM »
EDIT: *** Death tolls due to wars are in interesting historical phenomenon, such as after the American Civil War or WWI in Europe, and pretty much the early 20th Century History as a whole in Russia...  Unmarried women in these time periods are noticable, and there was probably a much higher percentage of married men...but that is a separate topic, I think!

It was even better in Germany in the aftermath of the Thirty Years War. The law of supply and demand is true for the marriage market as well.

It will be very interesting to see what will happen to China - since there's a huge surplus of men, considering that female babies were aborted or exposed because of the one child policy. If anything's bad for stability it's poor young men in autocratic countries who can't find a wife.
Or the Japanese who aren't having sex.

Look at all the wicked things the Japanese do and create to get themselves off instead. The Marquis de Sade is nothing compared to them. The Japanese didn't stop having sex, they transcended it.

Yeah, the MGTOW guys and a lot of pick-up artists see that as a great example to follow. They despise real women (I. e., non-robotic ones) and don't want to start relationships with them.
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #173 on: April 15, 2015, 05:42:49 PM »
By 50% of women, you do mean that 50% of women who had complications died, not 50% of existing women died whilst giving birth...as in pregnancy was Russian Roulette with three rounds, right?  I think that might be where Porter's confusion is coming from.

It depends on the complications. We're not talking about losing a pint of blood. It was kinda hard to counter septicemia before antibiotics were invented, or survive a C-section before aseptic conditions and blood transfusion made abdominal surgery relatively safe.

I think it's more along the lines of, 50% of women died in childbirth at some point, not that 50% of pregnancies ended in maternal death. If you play Russian Roulette (with just one round) enough times, the probability of you dying will eventually reach 50%.
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #174 on: April 15, 2015, 05:45:44 PM »
Yeah, the MGTOW guys and a lot of pick-up artists see that as a great example to follow. They despise real women (I. e., non-robotic ones) and don't want to start relationships with them.
I must be living under a rock cause I never heard of this MGTOW until now. A quick google and wow, this is something I could see ialmisry doing and serious video gamers.

EDIT: Oh I see it's basically like "The Red Pill".

And good grief, manosphere? I wish I never knew. Men should be extinct.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 05:46:45 PM by nothing »
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #175 on: April 15, 2015, 05:46:51 PM »
EDIT: *** Death tolls due to wars are in interesting historical phenomenon, such as after the American Civil War or WWI in Europe, and pretty much the early 20th Century History as a whole in Russia...  Unmarried women in these time periods are noticable, and there was probably a much higher percentage of married men...but that is a separate topic, I think!

It was even better in Germany in the aftermath of the Thirty Years War. The law of supply and demand is true for the marriage market as well.

It will be very interesting to see what will happen to China - since there's a huge surplus of men, considering that female babies were aborted or exposed because of the one child policy. If anything's bad for stability it's poor young men in autocratic countries who can't find a wife.
Or the Japanese who aren't having sex.

Look at all the wicked things the Japanese do and create to get themselves off instead. The Marquis de Sade is nothing compared to them. The Japanese didn't stop having sex, they transcended it.
Have you read this article? It's pretty crazy.

Why have young people in Japan stopped having sex?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/young-people-japan-stopped-having-sex

"A survey in 2011 found that 61% of unmarried men and 49% of women aged 18-34 were not in any kind of romantic relationship, a rise of almost 10% from five years earlier. Another study found that a third of people under 30 had never dated at all. (There are no figures for same-sex relationships.) "

"A survey earlier this year by the Japan Family Planning Association (JFPA) found that 45% of women aged 16-24 "were not interested in or despised sexual contact". More than a quarter of men felt the same way."

"Aoyama cites one man in his early 30s, a virgin, who can't get sexually aroused unless he watches female robots on a game similar to Power Rangers. "

ROFL

LOL.

And then there's this:

"Back then, about 15 years ago, she was Queen Ai, or Queen Love, and she did "all the usual things" like tying people up and dripping hot wax on their nipples. "

The usual things.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #176 on: April 15, 2015, 05:50:26 PM »
LOL.

And then there's this:

"Back then, about 15 years ago, she was Queen Ai, or Queen Love, and she did "all the usual things" like tying people up and dripping hot wax on their nipples. "

The usual things.
Well dude look at the arcade game they created.

Boong-Ga Boong-Ga
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boong-Ga_Boong-Ga

NSFW?
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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #177 on: April 15, 2015, 05:54:20 PM »
LOL.

And then there's this:

"Back then, about 15 years ago, she was Queen Ai, or Queen Love, and she did "all the usual things" like tying people up and dripping hot wax on their nipples. "

The usual things.
Well dude look at the arcade game they created.

Boong-Ga Boong-Ga
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boong-Ga_Boong-Ga

NSFW?

Pretty tame compared to the other stuff that's going on in Japan as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tentacle_erotica

NSFW ofc.

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #178 on: April 15, 2015, 05:54:44 PM »
Seriously this MGTOW stuff is blowing my mind.

This Urban Dictionary entry is perfect for this thread:

Male 1: Dude, why don't you have a wife?

Male 2: Because women see you only as child support and alimony paychecks, I'm not that stupid to get married, I'm MGTOW!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MGTOW
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI

Online RobS

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Re: Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married....
« Reply #179 on: April 15, 2015, 05:55:48 PM »
LOL.

And then there's this:

"Back then, about 15 years ago, she was Queen Ai, or Queen Love, and she did "all the usual things" like tying people up and dripping hot wax on their nipples. "

The usual things.
Well dude look at the arcade game they created.

Boong-Ga Boong-Ga
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boong-Ga_Boong-Ga

NSFW?

Pretty tame compared to the other stuff that's going on in Japan as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tentacle_erotica

NSFW ofc.
Yeah I knew about that a long time ago.

Japanese are absolutely creepy, in every sense of the word.
"The business of the Christian is nothing else than to be ever preparing for death (μελεπᾷν ἀποθνήσκειν)."

— Saint Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragment XI