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Justinian
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« on: May 29, 2005, 11:03:10 PM »

Ok.....Ive been reading Father Seraphim Rose's book "The Soul after Death" and in it he says that the wings we see on angels depicted in Icons are symbolic,which threw me off since i did not know this, so does this mean that the angel literally has wings or has it been symbolism throughout the centuries?

And another thing, are all angels male, or am I looking at this from a too earthly and/or simplified view? Huh


In XC,
Justinian
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"All this indignation have I hurled, At the pretending part of the proud world. Who, swollen with selfish vanity devise: false freedoms, holy cheats, and formal lies, Over their fellow slaves to tyrannize." - John Wilmot
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2005, 03:01:36 AM »

Quote
And another thing, are all angels male, or am I looking at this from a too earthly and/or simplified view?

i *think*, and i could be wrong, that angels are sexless...i know that the angels we know of (i.e. we know their names) are all male names, and so it would seem they are actually male...but for some reason (perhaps it was Paradise Lost, in which case i am aware it has no theological authority at all) i feel like i've been told that angels are sexless.

lol that's my vague 2 cents...sorry i dont know more.
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hmmmm...
Cephas
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2005, 12:11:29 AM »

â€Â  Irini nem ehmot â€Â

This is the first I've heard of the wings being symbolic.  It is possible though, seeing as how angels are spirits (they wouldn't have much use for wings would they?).  But then I recall in the liturgy speaking of the Seraphim and saying how they have 6 wings, two which cover their faces, two which cover their feet and two they use to fly.  Perhaps there is some symbolism to that as well.  As for angels being sexless or not, I guess if we think of it logically, it wouldn't make sense for angels to be male or female.  Why exactly are humans male and female?  Well, they were created to, "... be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth" (i.e. procreate).  That is not the case for angels.  Angels were created to serve God either as being messengers, or praising Him 24/7 (although such a concept wouldn't apply in Heaven, seeing as how time is a non-issue there).  Just my humble thoughts.

Pray for me.
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Cephas 

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the punishment that made us whole, and by his bruises we are healed."
-- Isaiah 53:5

"He who knows himself knows God"
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Justinian
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2005, 07:58:00 PM »

Hmmmmmm.......if angels are sexless, then in the verses in Gensis or Exodus, i cant remember, when the "sons of god" took up with the "daughters of men" speicfically angels having sex with human women, does this imply that angels are male?

Justinian
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"All this indignation have I hurled, At the pretending part of the proud world. Who, swollen with selfish vanity devise: false freedoms, holy cheats, and formal lies, Over their fellow slaves to tyrannize." - John Wilmot
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2005, 09:43:13 PM »

Hmmmmmm.......if angels are sexless, then in the verses in Gensis or Exodus, i cant remember, when the "sons of god" took up with the "daughters of men" speicfically angels having sex with human women, does this imply that angels are male?

Justinian

The sons of God mentioned in Genesis does not refer to the angels (at least not according to the COC).  Here is what H.H. Pope Shenouda had to say on the matter.

Q: Genesis 6:2 describes before the account of the flood "that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautifu; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose."  Who are the sons of God and who are the daughters of men?

A: The sons of God are the descendants of Seth and the daughters of men are the descendants of Cain.

After the slaying of Abel the righteous, Adam begot another son and named him Seth "for God has appointed another seed for me instead of Abel" (Genesis 4:25) and for Seth, to him also a son was born and he named him Enoch.  Then men began to call on the name of the Lord (Genesis 4:26).  In the geneology of Jesus Christ, it is mentioned that "the son of Enoch, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God" (Luke 3:38).  The sons of Seth were called the sons of God for they were the sanctified offspring from which Noah came, then Abraham, then David, then Christ through whom all the tribes of the earth were blessed.  They are the believes that Belong to God; those took the blessing of Adam (Genesis 1:28) and then the blessing of Noah (Genesis 9:1)

It was good that God called some humans His sons before the flood.


The sons of Cain were not attributed to God for the curse that befell Cain, befell them also (Genesis 4:11) and they walked in the way of corruption so they were called the sons of men and they all drowned by the flood.

Prayers please.
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Cephas 

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the punishment that made us whole, and by his bruises we are healed."
-- Isaiah 53:5

"He who knows himself knows God"
-- Pi Nishti Abba Antony
sin_vladimirov
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2005, 09:55:42 PM »

Justinian, the answer is in Genesis VI, 5.
Now the giants were upon the earth in those days; and after that when the sons of God were wont to go in to the daughters of men, they bore children, those were the giants of old, the men of renown.


This is the the full context of that part of Genesis (according to Septuagint):
2  And it came to pass when men began to be numerous upon the earth, and daughters were born to them, 3 that the sons of God having seen the daughters of men that they were beautiful, took to themselves wives of all whom they chose. 4 And the Lord God said, My Spirit shall certainly not remain among these men for ever, because they are flesh, but their days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 5  Now the giants were upon the earth in those days; and after that when the sons of God were wont to go in to the daughters of men, they bore children to them, those were the giants of old, the men of renown.




P.S.
For all those who do not have any access to the Septuagint, here is one on-line copy:

http://www.ecmarsh.com/lxx/
« Last Edit: June 21, 2005, 10:02:49 PM by sin_vladimirov » Logged

Lord have mercy.
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