Author Topic: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?  (Read 2421 times)

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Offline SolEX01

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That is the dilemma I've been dealing with for almost a month since the Metropolitan visited my community.  His head chanter took over the chanters stand and the choir loft.  People are afraid that the Metropolitan will remove them from their posts if they lodge any objections.  I suggested that the choir and chanters "take a break" when the Metropolitan and his head chanter return to the community.

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2015, 11:12:06 PM »
That is the dilemma I've been dealing with for almost a month since the Metropolitan visited my community.  His head chanter took over the chanters stand and the choir loft. 

Just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit?  Or permanently?
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Offline SolEX01

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 11:22:52 PM »
That is the dilemma I've been dealing with for almost a month since the Metropolitan visited my community.  His head chanter took over the chanters stand and the choir loft. 

Just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit?  Or permanently?

Not permanently, just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit.  The head chanter was going between the chanter's stand and the choir loft.  When in the choir loft, he was playing the organ as he pushed the organist out of the way.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 12:03:39 AM »
That is the dilemma I've been dealing with for almost a month since the Metropolitan visited my community.  His head chanter took over the chanters stand and the choir loft. 

Just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit?  Or permanently?

Not permanently, just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit.  The head chanter was going between the chanter's stand and the choir loft.  When in the choir loft, he was playing the organ as he pushed the organist out of the way.

I don't know who your Metropolitan is or what he's like, but I've dealt with enough bishops to know that some are definitely less easy going than others.  If yours happens to be one of the "less easy going" types, it's probably for the better that he brings his own "staff" who know what he likes and what he doesn't like so that the visit goes off without a hitch.  If your fellow parishioners feel bad now, that's probably better than how they would've felt if he didn't have his staff with him and simply left it to you guys to figure out. 
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Offline SolEX01

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2015, 12:15:32 AM »
That is the dilemma I've been dealing with for almost a month since the Metropolitan visited my community.  His head chanter took over the chanters stand and the choir loft. 

Just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit?  Or permanently?

Not permanently, just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit.  The head chanter was going between the chanter's stand and the choir loft.  When in the choir loft, he was playing the organ as he pushed the organist out of the way.

I don't know who your Metropolitan is or what he's like, but I've dealt with enough bishops to know that some are definitely less easy going than others.  If yours happens to be one of the "less easy going" types, it's probably for the better that he brings his own "staff" who know what he likes and what he doesn't like so that the visit goes off without a hitch.  If your fellow parishioners feel bad now, that's probably better than how they would've felt if he didn't have his staff with him and simply left it to you guys to figure out.

The issue is that the community is proud of the choir and the chanters.  They didn't like someone "invading" their comfort zone.  I thought the head chanter's actions were out of line.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 12:18:11 AM by SolEX01 »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2015, 01:19:38 AM »
The issue is that the community is proud of the choir and the chanters.  They didn't like someone "invading" their comfort zone. 

While I am unfamiliar with this particular community, I always bristle when I hear that a particular community is "proud of the choir and the chanters" or that they didn't like someone "'invading' their comfort zone".  To an extent, that's just human and understandable.  But there is also an extent to which it can be an unhealthy tendency which ought to be corrected and not confirmed. 

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I thought the head chanter's actions were out of line.

Perhaps they were.  But I see no reason why the only explanation is that the bishop's staff is composed of less than stellar characters. 
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline SolEX01

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2015, 01:41:57 AM »
The issue is that the community is proud of the choir and the chanters.  They didn't like someone "invading" their comfort zone. 

While I am unfamiliar with this particular community,

You ought to pay us a visit and see for yourself.   :)  The church is a 10 minute walk from the train station.

I always bristle when I hear that a particular community is "proud of the choir and the chanters" or that they didn't like someone "'invading' their comfort zone".  To an extent, that's just human and understandable. But there is also an extent to which it can be an unhealthy tendency which ought to be corrected and not confirmed.

I like your perspective and agree with you.   :)

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I thought the head chanter's actions were out of line.

Perhaps they were.  But I see no reason why the only explanation is that the bishop's staff is composed of less than stellar characters.

I don't follow....

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2015, 01:57:23 PM »
You ought to pay us a visit and see for yourself.   :)  The church is a 10 minute walk from the train station.

Which train station?  :P

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I thought the head chanter's actions were out of line.

Perhaps they were.  But I see no reason why the only explanation is that the bishop's staff is composed of less than stellar characters.

I don't follow....

Well, what if your bishop has very particular preferences on how services are to be served when he's presiding over them?  Perhaps they're not known to the parishes or even to the parish priests.  Or perhaps even if they were known, it would be difficult to train everyone to pull it off well.  But if they're not done just so, the bishop will not be so pleasant to deal with.  There are bishops like that, whether it is right or not, whether we like it or not.  If he's like that, then perhaps he brings a few people with him who know what to do when and how.  They may have to cut off the choir or the organist or the altar servers or whomever, but if the parish is otherwise happy with the bishop's visit and the bishop is happy with your parish, that's really what is important at the end of the day.  And that small group of "experts" doesn't mind making the sacrifice of being glared at by offended choir members or whomever because they know it could always be worse.

I could be totally wrong in this particular situation, but the things I write I have seen for myself, so I don't think it's unlikely.   
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline Elisha

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2015, 02:30:18 PM »
That is the dilemma I've been dealing with for almost a month since the Metropolitan visited my community.  His head chanter took over the chanters stand and the choir loft. 

Just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit?  Or permanently?

Not permanently, just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit.  The head chanter was going between the chanter's stand and the choir loft.  When in the choir loft, he was playing the organ as he pushed the organist out of the way.

I don't know who your Metropolitan is or what he's like, but I've dealt with enough bishops to know that some are definitely less easy going than others.  If yours happens to be one of the "less easy going" types, it's probably for the better that he brings his own "staff" who know what he likes and what he doesn't like so that the visit goes off without a hitch.  If your fellow parishioners feel bad now, that's probably better than how they would've felt if he didn't have his staff with him and simply left it to you guys to figure out.

The issue is that the community is proud of the choir and the chanters.  They didn't like someone "invading" their comfort zone.  I thought the head chanter's actions were out of line.

What seems to me to be the most "out of line" is the lack of communication beforehand.  While you might be proud of your choir and chanters, if the Metropolitan's staff was going to "take over", then they should have no problem and just pray during the service and possibly learn what they can.  If this was not communicated ahead of time, which it sounds like it wasn't, then as I said...that is out of line.  That should have been clearly communicated so that expectations are met.  Now...if your parish's choir/chanters are not accustomed to Hierarchical DL's, then I'm sure it was for the best that the Met's staff took over.  On one end, the local singers need to have some humility about the situation, but on the other end, it doesn't sound like the Met's staff communicated expectations.

Offline SolEX01

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2015, 02:39:41 PM »
That is the dilemma I've been dealing with for almost a month since the Metropolitan visited my community.  His head chanter took over the chanters stand and the choir loft. 

Just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit?  Or permanently?

Not permanently, just for the duration of the Metropolitan's visit.  The head chanter was going between the chanter's stand and the choir loft.  When in the choir loft, he was playing the organ as he pushed the organist out of the way.

I don't know who your Metropolitan is or what he's like, but I've dealt with enough bishops to know that some are definitely less easy going than others.  If yours happens to be one of the "less easy going" types, it's probably for the better that he brings his own "staff" who know what he likes and what he doesn't like so that the visit goes off without a hitch.  If your fellow parishioners feel bad now, that's probably better than how they would've felt if he didn't have his staff with him and simply left it to you guys to figure out.

The issue is that the community is proud of the choir and the chanters.  They didn't like someone "invading" their comfort zone.  I thought the head chanter's actions were out of line.

What seems to me to be the most "out of line" is the lack of communication beforehand.  While you might be proud of your choir and chanters, if the Metropolitan's staff was going to "take over", then they should have no problem and just pray during the service and possibly learn what they can.  If this was not communicated ahead of time, which it sounds like it wasn't, then as I said...that is out of line.  That should have been clearly communicated so that expectations are met.  Now...if your parish's choir/chanters are not accustomed to Hierarchical DL's, then I'm sure it was for the best that the Met's staff took over.

My church has averaged 1 hierarchical visit each year since 2013.  3 different Hierarchs have visited the church in that span.  In 2013, the first one came by himself with no staff.  In 2014, the Archbishop brought his deacon and no one else.  My Metropolitan brought his deacon and head chanter.  AFAIK, the first 2 hierarchs didn't complain about the choir and chanters.

On one end, the local singers need to have some humility about the situation, but on the other end, it doesn't sound like the Met's staff communicated expectations.

His Eminence visited on rather short notice and there wasn't enough time to communicate expectations, etc.

Offline SolEX01

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2015, 02:46:30 PM »
You ought to pay us a visit and see for yourself.   :)  The church is a 10 minute walk from the train station.

Which train station?  :P

Penn Station in Baltimore.

Quote
Quote
I thought the head chanter's actions were out of line.

Perhaps they were.  But I see no reason why the only explanation is that the bishop's staff is composed of less than stellar characters.

I don't follow....

Well, what if your bishop has very particular preferences on how services are to be served when he's presiding over them?  Perhaps they're not known to the parishes or even to the parish priests.  Or perhaps even if they were known, it would be difficult to train everyone to pull it off well.  But if they're not done just so, the bishop will not be so pleasant to deal with.  There are bishops like that, whether it is right or not, whether we like it or not.  If he's like that, then perhaps he brings a few people with him who know what to do when and how.  They may have to cut off the choir or the organist or the altar servers or whomever, but if the parish is otherwise happy with the bishop's visit and the bishop is happy with your parish, that's really what is important at the end of the day.  And that small group of "experts" doesn't mind making the sacrifice of being glared at by offended choir members or whomever because they know it could always be worse.

I could be totally wrong in this particular situation, but the things I write I have seen for myself, so I don't think it's unlikely.   

No one is happy with the bishop at the moment.  The bishop may not be happy with the parish.  That kind of tension is above my pay grade; however, I'm tired of listening to people complain about the bishop.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2015, 03:02:43 PM »
Penn Station in Baltimore.

If I travel down to Baltimore and go to your church before going to one or two others, I think I will lose some friends.  How will you make this worth my trouble?  :P

Quote
No one is happy with the bishop at the moment.  The bishop may not be happy with the parish.  That kind of tension is above my pay grade; however, I'm tired of listening to people complain about the bishop.

Can you go to another church for a little bit? 
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

Quote
Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

An Athonite

Offline SolEX01

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2015, 03:28:34 PM »
Penn Station in Baltimore.

If I travel down to Baltimore and go to your church before going to one or two others, I think I will lose some friends.  How will you make this worth my trouble?  :P

I can't promise you anything.   ;)  You may want to fulfill the promises you made to other people before visiting my church.   ;)

Quote
No one is happy with the bishop at the moment.  The bishop may not be happy with the parish.  That kind of tension is above my pay grade; however, I'm tired of listening to people complain about the bishop.

Can you go to another church for a little bit?

I've thought about it.  I like the convenience of going to this particular church.  Perhaps I need to look outside my comfort zone?   ???

Offline WPM

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2015, 03:36:24 PM »
Its probably a dead guy in his casket at a cemetery.
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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2015, 03:45:58 PM »
Its probably a dead guy in his casket at a cemetery.

What are you talking about?
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2015, 03:53:01 PM »
Its probably a dead guy in his casket at a cemetery.

What are you talking about?

He's referring to the unsubstantiated rumors that Met. Evangelos is a vampire.
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2015, 04:01:17 PM »
Its probably a dead guy in his casket at a cemetery.

What are you talking about?

He's referring to the unsubstantiated rumors that Met. Evangelos is a vampire.

lol, that was a good one.

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: I like my Metropolitan ... but no one else does ... what should I do?
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2015, 01:38:28 AM »
EDIT:

oh nevermind. This is a month old thread :p
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 01:39:04 AM by Gunnarr »
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