Author Topic: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches  (Read 2842 times)

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Offline andrewlya

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COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« on: March 13, 2015, 03:26:12 PM »
"Under fire, vicar who said 'we love Allah': Liberal clergyman attacked by traditional Anglicans for allowing full Muslim prayer service in his Church"

    Giles Goddard, vicar of St John's, Waterloo, held 'inclusive mosque' event
    During service asked congregation to praise 'the God that we love, Allah'
    Fellow clergymen call service 'offensive' and say it is against church law


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2992645/Under-fire-vicar-said-love-Allah-Liberal-clergyman-attacked-traditional-Anglicans-allowing-Muslim-prayer-service-Church.html#ixzz3UICnmM9D

Looks like Church of England is getting further and further away from Christianity.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 03:46:40 PM by andrewlya »
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2015, 03:34:50 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 03:35:23 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline eddybear

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2015, 05:50:13 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.
I agree with the second sentiment, but please don't write off the whole Church of England as non-Christian because of him. There are many of us who love Christ.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 05:51:51 PM by eddybear »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2015, 06:04:12 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.
I agree with the second sentiment, but please don't write off the whole Church of England as non-Christian because of him. There are many of us who love Christ.

You should know what I'd have to say to that. The Church of England is removing itself farther and farther away from the apostolic faith.

Islam is one of the most antichrist systems on earth, so any sponsoring of it in this manner is antichristic in the extreme. You shouldn't be surprised as to why my sentiments are what they are.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 06:06:52 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2015, 06:14:08 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.
I agree with the second sentiment, but please don't write off the whole Church of England as non-Christian because of him. There are many of us who love Christ.

The COE is an apostate body with no hope of reform.
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Offline andrewlya

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2015, 06:19:30 PM »
Women bishops,gay priests and now this..what is next?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 06:19:56 PM by andrewlya »
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Offline Maria

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2015, 07:08:29 PM »
Lord have mercy.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Offline andrewlya

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2015, 07:22:49 PM »
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Offline Hinterlander

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2015, 07:24:42 PM »
How does a parish recover from such desecration?

Lord Have Mercy!

Offline Maria

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2015, 07:48:36 PM »
How does a parish recover from such desecration?

Lord Have Mercy!

Repentance of the clergy and laity involved; then a rededication of the church.

However, it would have no real effect unless they were to join the Orthodox Church with he correct reception of the clergy and faithful according to the directive of the Orthodox Christian Bishop.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 07:49:49 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2015, 09:52:28 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.

Why would a non-Christian organisation bother with a deposition? 
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I am the Antichrist LOL just kidding

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2015, 10:05:16 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.

Why would a non-Christian organisation bother with a deposition?

I said "should", assuming it held to any orthodoxy at all.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2015, 10:09:05 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.

Why would a non-Christian organisation bother with a deposition?

I said "should", assuming it held to any orthodoxy at all.

What part of "It is no longer Christian..." was the assumption? 
Apparently, can smart . . has brain.

Yes, I do real Theology

I am the Antichrist LOL just kidding

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2015, 10:15:38 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.

Why would a non-Christian organisation bother with a deposition?

I said "should", assuming it held to any orthodoxy at all.

What part of "It is no longer Christian..." was the assumption?

The body might be sick, but some of it's parts are still healthy.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2015, 10:40:42 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.

Why would a non-Christian organisation bother with a deposition?

I said "should", assuming it held to any orthodoxy at all.

What part of "It is no longer Christian..." was the assumption?

The body might be sick, but some of it's parts are still healthy.

But...but...

It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.
I agree with the second sentiment, but please don't write off the whole Church of England as non-Christian because of him. There are many of us who love Christ.

You should know what I'd have to say to that. The Church of England is removing itself farther and farther away from the apostolic faith.

Islam is one of the most antichrist systems on earth, so any sponsoring of it in this manner is antichristic in the extreme. You shouldn't be surprised as to why my sentiments are what they are.

Apparently, can smart . . has brain.

Yes, I do real Theology

I am the Antichrist LOL just kidding

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2015, 11:10:10 PM »
It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.

Why would a non-Christian organisation bother with a deposition?

I said "should", assuming it held to any orthodoxy at all.

What part of "It is no longer Christian..." was the assumption?

The body might be sick, but some of it's parts are still healthy.

But...but...

It is no longer Christian...

This man should be deposed.
I agree with the second sentiment, but please don't write off the whole Church of England as non-Christian because of him. There are many of us who love Christ.

You should know what I'd have to say to that. The Church of England is removing itself farther and farther away from the apostolic faith.

Islam is one of the most antichrist systems on earth, so any sponsoring of it in this manner is antichristic in the extreme. You shouldn't be surprised as to why my sentiments are what they are.


If Christianity recovered from Arianism, it can recover from Chrislam. But, I'm doubtful. I thought I made myself clear about that.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline wgw

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2015, 11:19:43 PM »
I think the reason for the apoatasy in the Church of England is that it is a state church.  And what we're seeing here, cynically, is the British government perhaps dabbling informally and at a safe distance with the help of an ultra liberal vicar, in opening the Church to Muslims.

Think about it from the standpoint of UK survival.  Muslims are a huge chunk of their population, and radicalization is a huge problem.  The government through the United Synagogue and the Chief Rabbi has strong connections with the Jews, but there is nothing like that kind of authority over Islam.  And establishing a state mosque would be politically impossible at this point.  So doubtless some dim witted civil servant or perhaps just this vicar on his own, has thought "Ok, well the Episcopalians in the US have had Islamic Orayer in the national Cathedral, and elsewhere, for years, so why don't I do that in my parish and bring these Muslims into the Church, where they can be Muslim but not be radicalized?"   But the whole affair smells like something from Yes, Minister or The Thick of It.

But what breaks my heart is like many Orthodox I have a major crush on Anglicanism and love the Church of England.  I was heartbroken when the inevitable happened and they caved on women bishops.  But what is so sad is this is the church that came so close to union with the Orthodox, through the Anglo Catholics who were not Anglo Papalists, but the Evangelical Low Churchmen interfered, the very Orthodox 1928 Deposited Book was rejected by parliament as a replacement for the 1662 BCP (the 1928 book was far from an implementation of all that the report commissioned by St. Tikhon wanted, but it was a huge step forward; this book should not be confused with the 1928 Episcopal Book of Common Prayer, which is similiar but not the same), and then the Broad Church faction, which became the liberal faction, with groups like "Affirming Catholicism" took over.   The Episcopal Church declined on the other hand because of a parasitic modernist wing in it that received a huge boost from the horrible, heretical Bishop James Pike, who denied the Trinity for example, saying "We need fewer beliefs and more belief"; he was a master at media manipulation having been the first pastor in the US to have his Sunday services in his parish in New York broadcast in the 1940s.  When he took charge of the ultra liberal San Francisco Archdiocese, critical mass was attained: the other bishops wanted to try him for heresy but he frightened them out of it with his media connections.  Even though he died a few years later of exposure in the Israeli desert, looking for evidence of the historical Jesus (his poor wife was fortunately rescued by Bedouins), the damage was done, as he broke through the internal controls of the ECUSA preventing it from falling into schism.

And when the ECUSA ordained female priestesses starting in 1979, that effectively according to Metropolitan Kallistos Ware made the reunification dialogue with the Orthodox academic, and the other first world Anglican churches began collapsing like dominos.  The C of E was one of the last to go and is for the time still holding out on gay marriage, but it won't last; Justin Welby is clearly pushing for it.

So that's my view on why this happened, and how the most Orthodox like Protestant church (not counting the Old Catholics) fell into apostasy.

But, there is the Global South, with conservative Anglo Catholic provinces like Ghana.  And there is the Continuing Anglican movement.  And I believe we should continue to reach out to these groups.   

Meanwhile, we should also celebrate the tens of thousands of Anglicans who we have rescued and received into Orthodoxy.  Anglicans represent a very large chunk of our convert base.  Also the Antiochian Western Rite Vicarate in the US preserves an essentially Anglican style liturgy in an Orthodox Church with zOrthodox doctrine, and I find that beautiful beyond words. 

But it is so sad that all those beautiful Anglican cathedrals are going to be desecrated in this manner in the coming years.   The traditionalist Continuing Anglicans managed to buy a few, but in the US for example, the Presiding Bishop of the ECUSA has forbidden the church from selling redundant church buildings to "organizations which seek to replace the ECUSA."
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Offline eddybear

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2015, 08:16:35 AM »
Update on this story:

A spokesperson for the Diocese of Southwark said on Friday: "The Bishop of Southwark takes very seriously his responsibility to uphold the teaching of the Church and to work within its framework of legislation and guidance.

"It is quite clear that Islamic prayer should not take place in a consecrated building.

"This is why he has asked the Bishop of Kingston to investigate fully what happened.

"It is inappropriate to seek to make further public comments on this matter until this has happened."


Source: http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/8137

Offline LenInSebastopol

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2015, 09:21:22 AM »
Thanks, Eddybear, but also noted is the ..."Inclusive Mosque initiative which advocates gender justice and the inclusion of lesbian and gay Muslims in worship".
Straight out of Monty Python!

I feel for you EB, as you watch a beloved traditionally cornerstone of your way of life crumbling before your very eyes. Please remember the word "repent" and turn to another way.
Orthodoxy welcomes you with open arms and a tradition older than England itself.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 09:22:09 AM by LenInSebastopol »
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Offline andrewlya

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2015, 10:23:15 AM »
To be fair Muslims are not meant to enter Churches anyway, the ones that entered would be deemed as apostates themselves by conservative Sunni Muslims.
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Offline andrewlya

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2015, 10:34:03 AM »
Thanks, Eddybear, but also noted is the ..."Inclusive Mosque initiative which advocates gender justice and the inclusion of lesbian and gay Muslims in worship".
Straight out of Monty Python!

I feel for you EB, as you watch a beloved traditionally cornerstone of your way of life crumbling before your very eyes. Please remember the word "repent" and turn to another way.
Orthodoxy welcomes you with open arms and a tradition older than England itself.
Well said.
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Offline mabsoota

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2015, 10:38:41 AM »
 :o  :o  :o

(mr. mabsoot adds 'why didn't they have that service in the mosque?!')

Offline andrewlya

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2015, 11:07:42 AM »
I can not see many Mosques having Christians services, so why do Churches have Muslims services in the UK and the USA?
Liberalism is ruining the world.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 11:08:05 AM by andrewlya »
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2015, 01:47:02 PM »
Women bishops,gay priests and now this..what is next?
Imam's and Mullahs?
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Offline andrewlya

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Re: COE holds full Islamic service at one of its Churches
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2015, 02:32:23 PM »
Women bishops,gay priests and now this..what is next?
Imam's and Mullahs?
A state Mosque?
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