Author Topic: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day  (Read 94924 times)

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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #810 on: February 03, 2017, 06:50:43 PM »
Yea, according to the Arabic captions at the monastery itself, they only mention spread of heresies since the fourth century, like Arianism, Macedonianism, Nestorianism, etc.  I don't think it has anything to do with Western European ideologies.  Why heresies?  It's the "bending" of the truth of the gospel, hence the "bent" crosses

That's what I figured.
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #811 on: February 04, 2017, 07:21:22 PM »
Historical detail on the door:

Quote
There are two large steps that lead into the main sanctuary, called a haykal from the Hebrew hekal. The door that separates the choir from the sanctuary, which was the work of Moses of Nisibis, is simply a wonderful piece of artwork with extraordinary inlays. This door is made of forty-two panels arranged in seven horizontal and six vertical rows. In the panels of the uppermost row, depicted, from left to right, are St. Dioscorus, patriarch of Alexandria, St. Mark who the Evangelist and first bishop of Alexandria, Christ, the Holy Virgin, St. Severus I, patriarch Antioch, and St. Ignatius who was a bishop of Antioch. Significantly, the representations indicate respect for both the Coptic and Syrian patriarchates. Below, the second row of panels shows a repeated pattern of circles interlaced to form crosses. In each of the six fields of the third row, six linked circles are arranged in pairs, each circle containing a cross. The fourth row, though somewhat damaged, has in each panel a cross enclosed in a four-leafed shamrock with a trefoil at the junction of each leaf. The fifth row has in each panel six swastikas, each enclosed in a circle. The sixth row is a dark grille based on linked circles on a white background. A pattern of a plan cross in a double-stepped frame, the design of the cross thus filling the whole of each panel, takes of the seventh row. This door dates to the beginning of the tenth century, evidenced by a Syrian inscription written on the door itself and indicating that it was made during the patriarchates of Anba Gabriel I, the fifty-seventh patriarch of Alexandria (910-921 AD) and Anba Yuannis IV , the twenty-fifth patriarch of Antioch (902-922 AD).

source:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/surian.htm

I love this monastery.  This is a remnant of when Syriac monks lived in Coptic deserts as their own home.  The way it started is interesting as well, all because of the Julianist heresy!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 07:22:39 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline dhinuus

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #812 on: February 06, 2017, 01:54:29 PM »
Mor Nicodemos Daoud, the Archbishop of Mosul, returns to his cathedral church in Mosul.




« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 01:58:30 PM by dhinuus »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #814 on: February 06, 2017, 03:19:42 PM »
Glory to God!
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline minasoliman

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Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Dominika

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #816 on: February 07, 2017, 06:51:22 AM »
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #817 on: February 07, 2017, 04:53:22 PM »
That's our general bishop, Bishop Karas with the Pope.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #818 on: February 07, 2017, 05:40:18 PM »


This Pope is a G. Can't say the same for Pope Francis, sadly.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #819 on: February 07, 2017, 07:59:04 PM »
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #820 on: February 08, 2017, 05:46:07 PM »
Lol! Be careful...people might think you're referencing a rap song :P
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #821 on: February 08, 2017, 07:41:01 PM »
If I recall correctly, the performers in said video were also cruising around on a yacht.  ;)
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #822 on: February 08, 2017, 08:06:07 PM »
If I recall correctly, the performers in said video were also cruising around on a yacht.  ;)

Nah it was a pool

;)
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #823 on: February 08, 2017, 11:11:34 PM »
Nicely played!  ;D
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline CoptoGeek

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« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 02:24:27 PM by CoptoGeek »
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #825 on: February 11, 2017, 09:25:54 PM »
The new St. Mina's Monastery in Mariut, Egypt:



And here's St. Mina's Cathedral in the same campus:

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

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Offline Dominika

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #826 on: February 12, 2017, 11:56:34 AM »
^^ wow, amazing. I wish I visit these churches one day.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 11:56:46 AM by Dominika »
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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #827 on: February 12, 2017, 04:18:20 PM »
Me too!  Last time I was there was in 2004 or 2005, when this was still under construction
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #828 on: February 15, 2017, 11:37:08 AM »
That's gorgeous! And they have the monks to fill it?
Quote
But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #829 on: February 15, 2017, 12:28:33 PM »
Yup! They even have an Abbott bishop.  He's the second one if I'm not mistaken.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline orthodoxlearner

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« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 10:06:01 AM by orthodoxlearner »

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Offline surajiype

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #832 on: April 11, 2017, 11:27:01 AM »
Visit of Malankara Syriac Orthodox seminarians to the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Seminary.

This was followed by a return visit too..

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #833 on: April 11, 2017, 12:04:23 PM »
Return visit of Orthodox seminarians to the Patriarchal seminary

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #834 on: April 11, 2017, 12:08:55 PM »
Glory to God.
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #835 on: April 11, 2017, 01:08:06 PM »
+1

I hope this is the beginning of a new chapter for the Malankara Orthodox of both factions
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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #836 on: April 19, 2017, 03:14:27 PM »
In this video from Germany, HE Mor Philoxenos Matthias Nayis presides over the rite of the Veneration of the Cross on the great feast of Easter. 

"Holy God, holy (and) mighty, holy (and) immortal, the children of the believing Church beseech you crying out: you who rose in glory from the tomb, have mercy on us!"

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #837 on: April 24, 2017, 04:48:38 PM »


The keyboard
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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #838 on: April 24, 2017, 05:39:03 PM »


The keyboard


SMR - Paul Playing the Piano, St. Mary St. John Coptic Orthodox Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ce9VH9xgxA

My coptic Church on the piano كنيستي القبطية
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF85FXFOfCU

My Coptic Church (Instrumental) | Raising the Belief | Come-In-Unity Carnival 2013
St. Mary St. John Coptic Orthodox Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sAXUXYVwP0
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #839 on: April 24, 2017, 06:15:17 PM »


The keyboard


SMR - Paul Playing the Piano, St. Mary St. John Coptic Orthodox Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ce9VH9xgxA

My coptic Church on the piano كنيستي القبطية
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF85FXFOfCU

My Coptic Church (Instrumental) | Raising the Belief | Come-In-Unity Carnival 2013
St. Mary St. John Coptic Orthodox Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sAXUXYVwP0

Pipe Organ at Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Atlanta, GA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMebe0fJkzE

Video about the newly installed Rodgers Infinity 361 organ at Saint Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles, CA.
https://youtu.be/RAlDt87m6lA?t=1m43s

Great Doxology, Patriarchal Liturgy with Ecumenical Patriarch VARTHOLOMAIOS A'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA67aIO8_KI

"O Monogenes", Patriarchal Liturgy with Ecumenical Patriarch VARTHOLOMAIOS A'
https://youtu.be/KxLSGNWnj2Y?t=11m18s

Divine Liturgy (July 31, 2016) Southeastern Federation of Greek Orthodox Choirs and Musicians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rig7ixn_5lk


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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #840 on: April 24, 2017, 06:19:31 PM »


The keyboard


SMR - Paul Playing the Piano, St. Mary St. John Coptic Orthodox Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ce9VH9xgxA

My coptic Church on the piano كنيستي القبطية
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF85FXFOfCU

My Coptic Church (Instrumental) | Raising the Belief | Come-In-Unity Carnival 2013
St. Mary St. John Coptic Orthodox Church
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sAXUXYVwP0

It's a pic from a Syriac parish. And I've meant not onle the keyboard (however, this too), but also what is a front of it. I would say, a bit of kitsch ;p

I have a few hundered Coptic hymns and songs on my computer, including using the piano (btw, "O Kirios" in such arrangments is one of my favourite), so I'm not surprised ;)
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #841 on: April 24, 2017, 06:58:38 PM »
It's a pic from a Syriac parish. And I've meant not onle the keyboard
It would be nice to hear the music with the song.
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #842 on: April 24, 2017, 07:02:08 PM »
Pipe Organ at Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Atlanta, GA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMebe0fJkzE

Video about the newly installed Rodgers Infinity 361 organ at Saint Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles, CA.
https://youtu.be/RAlDt87m6lA?t=1m43s

Great Doxology, Patriarchal Liturgy with Ecumenical Patriarch VARTHOLOMAIOS A'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA67aIO8_KI

"O Monogenes", Patriarchal Liturgy with Ecumenical Patriarch VARTHOLOMAIOS A'
https://youtu.be/KxLSGNWnj2Y?t=11m18s

Divine Liturgy (July 31, 2016) Southeastern Federation of Greek Orthodox Choirs and Musicians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rig7ixn_5lk
That's nice, but can you find it accompanied by a sound techno-style keyboard and electronic tamburine sounds as part of a liturgy, instead of traditional Western organ music?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 07:04:59 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #843 on: April 24, 2017, 07:11:05 PM »
Pipe Organ at Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Atlanta, GA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMebe0fJkzE

Video about the newly installed Rodgers Infinity 361 organ at Saint Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles, CA.
https://youtu.be/RAlDt87m6lA?t=1m43s

Great Doxology, Patriarchal Liturgy with Ecumenical Patriarch VARTHOLOMAIOS A'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA67aIO8_KI

"O Monogenes", Patriarchal Liturgy with Ecumenical Patriarch VARTHOLOMAIOS A'
https://youtu.be/KxLSGNWnj2Y?t=11m18s

Divine Liturgy (July 31, 2016) Southeastern Federation of Greek Orthodox Choirs and Musicians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rig7ixn_5lk
That's nice, but can you find it accompanied by a sound techno-style keyboard and electronic tamburine sounds as part of a liturgy, instead of traditional Western organ music?

So there was an anti-OO agenda behind your post.  Thanks. 

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #844 on: April 24, 2017, 07:18:53 PM »
And I've meant not onle the keyboard (however, this too), but also what is a front of it. I would say, a bit of kitsch ;p

Yeah, we have a lot of what I would term kitsch or schlock in our churches.  Like, for example, in very well-to-do Coptic churches in North America, the deacons still process around using crosses jury-rigged from what looks like thick, plastic curtain rods, complete with the rubber stoppers at the end!  ;D

Every car in the parking lot is Mercedes or better, but we can't shell out for some actual processional crosses?  And in the midst of our beautiful Coptic icons, we still have the ultra-schlocky "groaning Jesus" portraits, and we use them for the procession on Great and Holy Friday?!?



And don't get me started on the crosses covered in Christmas lights!  It's not easy being cheesy!  ;)

Pipe Organ at Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Atlanta, GA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMebe0fJkzE

Video about the newly installed Rodgers Infinity 361 organ at Saint Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles, CA.
https://youtu.be/RAlDt87m6lA?t=1m43s

Great Doxology, Patriarchal Liturgy with Ecumenical Patriarch VARTHOLOMAIOS A'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA67aIO8_KI

"O Monogenes", Patriarchal Liturgy with Ecumenical Patriarch VARTHOLOMAIOS A'
https://youtu.be/KxLSGNWnj2Y?t=11m18s

Divine Liturgy (July 31, 2016) Southeastern Federation of Greek Orthodox Choirs and Musicians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rig7ixn_5lk
That's nice, but can you find it accompanied by a sound techno-style keyboard and electronic tamburine sounds as part of a liturgy, instead of traditional Western organ music?

So there was an anti-OO agenda behind your post.  Thanks.

Isn't there always?
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #845 on: April 24, 2017, 07:24:48 PM »
So there was an anti-OO agenda behind your post.  Thanks.
Dominika supplied a picture of OOs singing in church with a keyboard.
I am interested in what that sounds like.
So I looked it up and posted what seemed to me the closest thing.

If you can find some EO or OO church music with electronic accompaniment in church, it would be relevant to the discussion.

Regards.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 07:24:59 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #847 on: April 24, 2017, 09:06:26 PM »
electronic accompaniment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk
Antonious,
I don't think you need to interpret discussions about the relationship between Orthodoxy and Charismatics or "Praise and Worship" style services in such a hostile sense.

Dominika showed a picture of a keyboard in an OO service, and this gave me two options:


A. Say Nothing because I don't know how you would take it. But you seemed personally fine with Dominika sharing the photo.

B. Explore the topic because it is something new and unusual for me to see electronic keyboards as part of an Orthodox parish service.

I chose to explore the topic. Let me explain why. I find charismatic issues significant, and I don't consider discussing their relationship to a church to be necessarily  inherently hostile to that church. I studied the relationship between EOs and Charismaticism in far more depth than I did with OOs. For example, I can tell you who the leaders and organizations of the Charismatic movement have been in the EO church in the last 50 years, but I can't name any Charismatic leaders or groups in the OO church.

I know that the latter is a topic of significant interest for you, so I can offer for you the online book Global Renewal Christianity: Spirit-Empowered Movements, By Vinson Synan, Amos Yong, J. Kwabena Asamoah-Gyadu, and what it says on this topic:
https://books.google.com/books?id=MBaRDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA414&lpg=PA414&dq=%22Febe+Armanios%22+charismatic&source=bl&ots=hVAiqgfm5n&sig=imbthEBqG3bT0BYaBdT5wOZpdOQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH2KiOpr7TAhWB8CYKHf0iBNMQ6AEISjAG#v=onepage&q=coptic&f=false

I want to make clear- my goal in passing this book title to you is definitely not to mar the Coptic Church. The reason I am sharing this link to you is because it is a topic of mutual interest and I intend this personally in a positive personal sense of exploring mutual interest and a shared common outlook.

Peace.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 09:08:49 PM by rakovsky »
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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #848 on: April 25, 2017, 09:40:13 AM »
Rakovsky,

As you well know, my position is that Charismatism is at best a self-inflicted delusion and at worst of the devil.  It is not something that has ever been a part of the historic Church for the past 2000 years.  I am familiar with the very biased book you have linked to here and the work of its Coptic contributor Febe Armanious.  I own a copy.  It is part of a very biased series written from the theological perspective of convinced Charismatics.  Though it pretends in places to maintain academic neutrality, its very title give it away: Global Renewal Christianity: Spirit-Empowered Movements: Past, Present and Future.  Even the chapters you highlighted describe the "ministry" of Charismatics within the Coptic Church - including evildoers who managed to get themselves ordained - as "annointed", etc.  It is useful only insofar as it helps to trace the origins of this poison in the Coptic Church and helps to expose those who are still peddling it by praising them.

I am familiar with the opinions that you have posted concerning Charismatism and the Early Church, but I am not willing to entertain discussion on whether or not the spirit driving the Charismatic movement is the Holy Spirit.  I know that it is not.  I know when and where Charismatism originated, and it was not at all in the Early Church.  It was in the American South in the 19th century and perhaps a little earlier.  You can see my previous posts on the subject for more information on this.  I will not rehash it here.

As Charismatism is by its nature something delusional at best and something demonic at worst, and something that is always spiritually harmful, and something that has never been a part of the Church from its inception until the present, Charismatic "praise and worship" services in an Orthodox context is always something that should be greeted with hostility, even as one greets cancer with chemotherapy and radiation.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 09:43:07 AM by Antonious Nikolas »
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #849 on: April 25, 2017, 10:37:17 AM »
Thanks for writing back with your information.

You rightly mentioned a major problem with Charismaticism- it doesn't come from Orthodoxy.
It appears to me to be an attempt within Reform Protestantism to regain the mysticism, spirituality, sense of supernatural intervention that hard nosed naturalistic Calvinism eliminated, e.g.. in Calvimism's denial of the Catholic saints' mystical side, the real presence in the Eucharist, wonderworking relics, rites of exorcism, etc.

Did you see the AFR article on Charismaticism?

( BTW, I believe that chemotherapy is a harmful cancer treatment.)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 10:38:28 AM by rakovsky »
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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #850 on: April 25, 2017, 11:09:13 AM »
Thanks for writing back with your information.

Have you read Fr. Alexis Trader's "In Peace Let Us Pray to the Lord" on this subject?

You rightly mentioned a major problem with Charismaticism- it doesn't come from Orthodoxy.
It appears to me to be an attempt within Reform Protestantism to regain the mysticism, spirituality, sense of supernatural intervention that hard nosed naturalistic Calvinism eliminated, e.g.. in Calvimism's denial of the Catholic saints' mystical side, the real presence in the Eucharist, wonderworking relics, rites of exorcism, etc.

In part, you are very much right.  There is also an element - particularly in the African-American Charismatic experience - that comes from West African spiritism imported to the American South.  There are accounts of African-Americans mocking the first of their poor and illiterate white neighbors who "caught the holy ghost", saying, "They think they are black".  There are also accounts of early white Pentecostal preachers chastising members of their flock who got too loud and rowdy "in the spirit", saying that they were acting like "a bunch of [racial slur redacted]".  I have citations for all of this.  I mentioned them directly in another thread, but don't feel like looking for it now.  You are probably already aware anyway.  My point is that the connection to West African spirit possession is often overlooked.

Did you see the AFR article on Charismaticism?

No.  If you get a chance, please link to it.

( BTW, I believe that chemotherapy is a harmful cancer treatment.)

I know people who have been saved by it, but it can have some rough side effects.
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #851 on: April 25, 2017, 12:09:51 PM »
Thanks for writing back with your information.

Have you read Fr. Alexis Trader's "In Peace Let Us Pray to the Lord" on this subject?
No. I might need to order it. But it looks like a relevant, important book for what we are discussing.

Quote

Did you see the AFR article on Charismaticism?

No.  If you get a chance, please link to it.
Modern Charismatic Movement Similar to Charismaticism in the Early Church?
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxbridge/4711-2/

I would be interested in your ideas on it as well as how Fr. Trader's book addresses the topics in it.

Peace.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 12:22:03 PM by rakovsky »
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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #852 on: April 25, 2017, 12:29:02 PM »


In part, you are very much right.  There is also an element - particularly in the African-American Charismatic experience - that comes from West African spiritism imported to the American South.  There are accounts of African-Americans mocking the first of their poor and illiterate white neighbors who "caught the holy ghost", saying, "They think they are black".  There are also accounts of early white Pentecostal preachers chastising members of their flock who got too loud and rowdy "in the spirit", saying that they were acting like "a bunch of [racial slur redacted]".  I have citations for all of this.  I mentioned them directly in another thread, but don't feel like looking for it now.  You are probably already aware anyway.  My point is that the connection to West African spirit possession is often overlooked.
I can understand the similarities between the phenomena.
Maybe it is a more fundamental or broader psychological issue: Maybe the Hellenistic pagans and their oracles sometimes were doing similar things (eg. "tongues). The Methodists' 19th c. "Great Awakening" looks very similar to me in major respects, even though Methodists nowadays are about as mellow as the Presbyterians and UCC.

One time during the Great Awakening, IIRC, a young man entered a dance hall and a girl invited him to dance, but instead of dancing, he started preaching Low Church Protestantism, and suddenly the bodies hit the floor, "thud" "thud", the young man recalled. It was a kind of 19th century "slain in the spirit" effect like a stage hypnotist putting a crowd to sleep.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 12:29:53 PM by rakovsky »
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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #853 on: April 25, 2017, 01:05:46 PM »
There is a thread discussing Fr. Trader's book here:
In Peace Let Us Pray to the Lord!
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=16897.0

It sounds from the thread that he and Fr. Romanides claim that the Biblical gift of tongues was an inaudible (except for the Pentecost event) "prayer of the heart", which doesn't sound correct to me. In any case, I know that it would be better to consult his book directly, and there are several aspects to Pentecostals, not just Tongues.
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #854 on: April 25, 2017, 01:20:11 PM »


Yesterday was the 102th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide.

May the Memory of the victims be Eternal.