Author Topic: Why is Constantine a Saint?  (Read 2535 times)

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2015, 04:36:32 AM »
I think you need to calm down before you're guilty of sacrilege of your own. I'm very curious what foundation you think you stand on to array yourself against millions of holy Christians, of Fathers and saints, of Holy Tradition, of two thousand years of worship and communion, in short, against the Church. But that would be another topic.

Ad Hominem (Also, "personal attack," "poisoning the well." The fallacy of attempting to refute an argument by attacking the opposition’s personal character or reputation, using a corrupted negative argument from ethos. E.g., "He's so evil that you can't believe anything he says."

Appeal to Tradition: The fallacy that a standpoint, situation or action is right, proper and correct simply because it has "always" been that way, because people have "always" thought that way, or because it continues to serve one particular group very well.. A corrupted argument from ethos (that of past generations).

Appeal to Popularity. Something isn't true because lots of people believe it.

Appeal to Tradition. Something isn't true because it is old or traditional.

But your definition of what it means to be equal to an apostle, is not a concept warranted by God or Holy Scripture. It is blasphemous to call a man "equal" to an apostle who did not even believe in Christianity and who allowed paganism to exist in an empire.

Again I ask, how do you know he wasn't really a Christian? What gives you the right to judge the heart of a man you've never even met?

Not sure why this gets so much play around here. In a word: actions.

Christ spoke rather plainly for which people will be judged, their actions. His words about the last judgement are pretty clear. And I am not sure how we would understand heart today was the same as during when Christ followers began to put together how they understood the Gospel.

Not speaking about any Saint named within the thread, but yeah if you aren't feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, and giving comfort to the imprisoned and the like, then the case is rather easily closed.

But who wants to do all that when there are people to mock on internet boards? Or to preach to the choir? Watch TV. Take pilgrimages. Or whatever else seems more important than loving your neighbor.

Keep your heart how you like, I just care about what you do. Or at least that what Jesus tells me in the most frightening part of scripture.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2015, 04:55:29 AM »
And what you don't see is the person who in foolishness passes by the hungry and then comes to himself later, reproaches his soul and tries to make it right and prays for the person if he can't find them. God will judge, not you because you don't see every thought and action. Just make sure you're feeding the hungry.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2015, 05:06:27 AM »
And what you don't see is the person who in foolishness passes by the hungry and then comes to himself later, reproaches his soul and tries to make it right and prays for the person if he can't find them. God will judge, not you because you don't see every thought and action. Just make sure you're feeding the hungry.

Look at what Christ says. Sorry nothing about you walked past the hungry and felt bad later for doing nothing about it so asked me to do it for you . . .

But since that is what everyone does, cross tattoos or not, we all collectively let one another slide on it.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2015, 05:13:03 AM »
And what you don't see is the person who in foolishness passes by the hungry and then comes to himself later, reproaches his soul and tries to make it right and prays for the person if he can't find them. God will judge, not you because you don't see every thought and action. Just make sure you're feeding the hungry.

Look at what Christ says. Sorry nothing about you walked past the hungry and felt bad later for doing nothing about it so asked me to do it for you . . .

But since that is what everyone does, cross tattoos or not, we all collectively let one another slide on it.

I didn't say "asked me to do it for you," I said tried to but was not able and then prayed. Have you really done absolutely everything you could possibly do to feed the hungry? If not get off your high horse and go sell your computer or something.

If we expect God to show mercy to us, then we'd better start showing it to one another. That's somewhere in the words of Jesus too, I think.
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Akathist Hymn- Glory to God for All Things

Offline wgw

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2015, 06:45:39 AM »
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy.
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Offline RobS

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2015, 12:36:40 PM »
And what you don't see is the person who in foolishness passes by the hungry and then comes to himself later, reproaches his soul and tries to make it right and prays for the person if he can't find them. God will judge, not you because you don't see every thought and action. Just make sure you're feeding the hungry.

Look at what Christ says. Sorry nothing about you walked past the hungry and felt bad later for doing nothing about it so asked me to do it for you . . .

But since that is what everyone does, cross tattoos or not, we all collectively let one another slide on it.

I didn't say "asked me to do it for you," I said tried to but was not able and then prayed. Have you really done absolutely everything you could possibly do to feed the hungry? If not get off your high horse and go sell your computer or something.

If we expect God to show mercy to us, then we'd better start showing it to one another. That's somewhere in the words of Jesus too, I think.
When Jesus says for you to love your neighbor he's asking something of you that you can't will. What he is actually saying is that you need to be transformed into a new person. Only by that transformation into a loving person can you love your neighbors and also your enemies. This is what the gospel promises that by accepting God's love, that it will transform you, and by extension you can overcome the self. Without that, I guess you can boast all you want about feeding the hungry, sheltering the shelterless, clothing the naked, etc...but what does Paul say about such boasting? I think that is fundamental to Christianity.

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All this talk about the last judgement, sin, etc. is simply that: talk.
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Offline biro

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2015, 07:15:12 PM »
St. Constantine is a saint because of the power of the forgiveness of God.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2015, 07:17:10 PM »
St. Constantine is a saint because of the power of the forgiveness of God.

A more true statement on the matter has not been spoken.

Well put biro.

Offline Incognito777

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2015, 02:04:36 PM »
Another problem with the idea that Constantine could be a saint, is the fact he allowed the Arian heresy to exist in the empire. It was not until Theodosius that this heresy was officially forbidden to exist in the empire.

Offline Incognito777

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2015, 02:06:07 PM »
"St. Constantine is a saint because of the power of the forgiveness of God."

That logic would mean we are all saints, as understood by the Orthodox Church. Such a notion dishonors the true Orthodox saints.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2015, 02:07:02 PM »
Another problem with the idea that Constantine could be a saint, is the fact he allowed the Arian heresy to exist in the empire. It was not until Theodosius that this heresy was officially forbidden to exist in the empire.

No, no there are no problems with the idea that St. Constantine the Great could be a saint. And it's not just an idea: he is among the saints and approved by God.
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2015, 05:40:22 PM »
Another problem with the idea that Constantine could be a saint, is the fact he allowed the Arian heresy to exist in the empire. It was not until Theodosius that this heresy was officially forbidden to exist in the empire.

What should he have done about it?
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2015, 05:43:35 PM »
Another problem with the idea that Constantine could be a saint, is the fact he allowed the Arian heresy to exist in the empire. It was not until Theodosius that this heresy was officially forbidden to exist in the empire.

What should he have done about it?

Well... he called the Council of Nicaea...
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2015, 08:11:49 PM »
"St. Constantine is a saint because of the power of the forgiveness of God."

That logic would mean we are all saints, as understood by the Orthodox Church. Such a notion dishonors the true Orthodox saints.

Not much for St. John's Paschal homily?

Offline Incognito777

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2015, 03:18:37 AM »
No, no there are no problems with the idea that St. Constantine the Great could be a saint. And it's not just an idea: he is among the saints and approved by God.

Where is the evidence for the claim? I am only interested in what the sources have to say, not ideology and religious belief. There are no good reasons to believe Constantine is a saint, as I have shown. No saint would ever do the things he did. The idea that he is among the saints and approved by God is purely circular reasoning.


Offline Incognito777

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2015, 03:18:50 AM »
I appreciate responses, but it would be unethical and wrong for me to accept bad answers. The responses I have read here are not any good. However, I have not read all of them yet.

Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Why is Constantine a Saint?
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2015, 03:52:37 AM »
I appreciate responses, but it would be unethical and wrong for me to accept bad answers. The responses I have read here are not any good. However, I have not read all of them yet.

What do you mean 'accept'? You challenged the sainthood of a canonised saint, and the flaws in your point of view have been pointed out. It's not really down to you to 'accept' it or not.
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