Author Topic: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?  (Read 11599 times)

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #180 on: August 18, 2017, 03:38:37 PM »
Friend, I'm commenting on the paragraph you posted, nothing more. It's rationale is hideous. And I'm not sure why you react to my having a best friend of two decades as something contemptible. He happens to be black.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #181 on: August 18, 2017, 03:50:20 PM »
Friend, I'm commenting on the paragraph you posted, nothing more.

You said, "that...article is one of the lamest things I've read in some time".  Not the paragraph.  The article.  The premise of which - why many New World blacks would be keen on identifying as anything but - apparently eludes you, while you focus on a particular and peripheral point within the paragraph quoted that stands out to you as something larger than it actually is because of your own fixations and ideas concerning society, liberals, and conservatives.

It's rationale is hideous.

Like I said, you don't understand what its rationale actually is.

And I'm not sure why you react to my having a best friend of two decades as something contemptible. He happens to be black.

You're ill-suited for the role of the coy and obtuse weeping violet.  Don't waste my time with games.  We both know I don't object to you having a friend, nor to the fact that your friend happens to be Dominican (in my vast experience with Dominicans - who live in numbers in my city - they don't identify as black).  What I object to, rather, is your using him as a prop in this discussion in a failed attempt to illustrate how thoroughly you understand the attitudes of New World blacks towards the subject of race.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #182 on: August 18, 2017, 03:54:18 PM »
He's very black. Maybe you need to expand your experience with Dominicans. And of course I think it's you that misses the underlying intention of that paragraph. But it's fine to interpret it in different ways. As for your "black friend" remark, you were certainly demeaning our relationship. Politic concern is ruling your mind at the moment.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #183 on: August 18, 2017, 04:05:44 PM »
He's very black.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're referring to his cultural identification here and not merely his pigmentation.  Of course, if we're speaking about the latter, that's possible.  I know a few Dominicans who have been in the States for awhile in African-American communities who identify that way themselves.  America has a way of forcing people like Dominicans and Ethiopians to acknowledge a blackness many would deny on their own lands.  That said, I certainly don't trust your assessment on anything to do with blackness.  I'd have to hear it from the brother's mouth, so this aspect of our discussion has reached its conclusion.

Maybe you need to expand your experience with Dominicans.

I would bet my very life that it far exceeds your own in length, breadth, and depth, one guy notwithstanding.

And of course I think it's you that misses the underlying intention of that paragraph. But it's fine to interpret it in different ways.

Now I'm sure you're deliberately focusing on a particular aspect of the paragraph at the expense of the entire article and its point, but as I said, this is to be expected.

As for your "black friend" remark, you were certainly demeaning our relationship.

Don't try to game me.  I am demeaning your attempt a making your statements on the matter we are discussing credible via the experience of another man you did not share and could never relate to.  Nothing more.

Politic concern is ruling your mind at the moment.

Rather, your peculiar perspective on society and politics is ruling yours.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 04:06:52 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #184 on: August 18, 2017, 04:10:38 PM »
He's very black.

I'd have to hear it from the brother's mouth, so this aspect of our discussion has reached its conclusion.

God forgive your misanthropic prejudice.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #185 on: August 18, 2017, 04:12:31 PM »
He's very black.

I'd have to hear it from the brother's mouth, so this aspect of our discussion has reached its conclusion.

God forgive your misanthropic prejudice.

God forgive your paternalistic hubris.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #186 on: August 18, 2017, 04:42:48 PM »
He's very black.

I'd have to hear it from the brother's mouth, so this aspect of our discussion has reached its conclusion.

God forgive your misanthropic prejudice.

God forgive your paternalistic hubris.

I'm not the one telling blacks and whites how they may relate to or understand each other.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #187 on: August 18, 2017, 04:46:42 PM »
I'm not the one telling blacks and whites how they may relate to or understand each other.

Neither am I.  I'm just saying I don't accept you as an authority on the black experience.  For which I'm a misanthrope apparently.  ::)

You just have trouble accepting the fact that there are a great many things in the universe beyond the scope of what you take to be your omniscience.  Believe me, the black experience is absolutely and undeniably one of them.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #188 on: August 18, 2017, 05:14:56 PM »
No, you said you won't accept my observations about my own friend and the things he's told me, since they happen to pass through a white man, me.

And I'll point out that you have been telling mixed South Americans what to think of themselves in this thread, even in condemnatory terms. That's paternalistic.

I appreciate that your knowledge of the black experience throughout the Americas is large, and I gladly admit mine is small by comparison. I enjoy learning from you, and hope you continue to teach and share in the thread.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #189 on: August 18, 2017, 06:42:59 PM »
No, you said you won't accept my observations about my own friend and the things he's told me, since they happen to pass through a white man, me.

You can try to spin it that way all you want, but anyone reading can see that's not what has transpired here.  You made some misguided observations relative to the issue of the African Diaspora, I corrected you on them, and you tried to tell me you were "well aware", in spite of your apparent obliviousness on certain issues, because you know a Dominican guy, and then proceeded to tell me a story from his life.  At that point, I suppose that in order to avoid being called a misanthrope I was supposed to acknowledge your familiarity with African diasporic matters.  Since that would ridiculous though, I decided I had no alternative but to risk your infamous ire.  I stand by my decision.  I like you, and you're a bright chap, but having a Dominican friend doesn't mean that you automatically understand facets of this discussion that are apparently unfamiliar to you.

And I'll point out that you have been telling mixed South Americans what to think of themselves in this thread, even in condemnatory terms. That's paternalistic.

If telling a person that has non-European ancestry that it is ridiculous for them to identify as white nationalists is "paternalistic", or that people of African descent shouldnt revile their own ancestors and envy someone else's, I suppose I'll have to cop to that charge  Next I'll be telling Jewish Nazis how to feel about themselves.  Arrogant, I know.  Almost at Porterian levels.

I appreciate that your knowledge of the black experience throughout the Americas is large, and I gladly admit mine is small by comparison. I enjoy learning from you, and hope you continue to teach and share in the thread.

I shall as time permits.  As a penitent misanthrope, I have learned my lesson: to question the knowledge of O'Doran is to hate mankind.  I stand chastened and rebuked.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 06:44:41 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #190 on: August 18, 2017, 08:45:44 PM »
To AN, re American newsmedia: Of course they aren't agitators for the "white race," but they are agitators.

 Without a doubt.

We do our part.

 Present company excluded, of course.  ;)
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #191 on: August 18, 2017, 08:55:47 PM »
... even tho slavery was very uncommon in Appalachia.

 Exceptionally rare.  Most of southern Appalachia, though located in staunchly Confederate territory, were by-and-large pro-Union.  Of course, there were families who sided with the Confederates.  Even West VA, who broke off with VA proper to get away from the Confederacy, had families who were pro-Confederate. 
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #192 on: August 18, 2017, 09:22:24 PM »
No, you said you won't accept my observations about my own friend and the things he's told me, since they happen to pass through a white man, me.

You can try to spin it that way all you want, but anyone reading can see that's not what has transpired here.  You made some misguided observations relative to the issue of the African Diaspora, I corrected you on them, and you tried to tell me you were "well aware", in spite of your apparent obliviousness on certain issues, because you know a Dominican guy, and then proceeded to tell me a story from his life.  At that point, I suppose that in order to avoid being called a misanthrope I was supposed to acknowledge your familiarity with African diasporic matters.  Since that would ridiculous though, I decided I had no alternative but to risk your infamous ire.  I stand by my decision.  I like you, and you're a bright chap, but having a Dominican friend doesn't mean that you automatically understand facets of this discussion that are apparently unfamiliar to you.

And I'll point out that you have been telling mixed South Americans what to think of themselves in this thread, even in condemnatory terms. That's paternalistic.

If telling a person that has non-European ancestry that it is ridiculous for them to identify as white nationalists is "paternalistic", or that people of African descent shouldnt revile their own ancestors and envy someone else's, I suppose I'll have to cop to that charge  Next I'll be telling Jewish Nazis how to feel about themselves.  Arrogant, I know.  Almost at Porterian levels.

I appreciate that your knowledge of the black experience throughout the Americas is large, and I gladly admit mine is small by comparison. I enjoy learning from you, and hope you continue to teach and share in the thread.

I shall as time permits.  As a penitent misanthrope, I have learned my lesson: to question the knowledge of O'Doran is to hate mankind.  I stand chastened and rebuked.

I said I was "fairly well aware" and gave concrete examples in support of your own message of a kind you rightly wouldn't expect me to know. You proceeded to reject them on the grounds they were from me, since personalities are apparently more important than message to you today. You then seemed to imply you rejected them because I am white, but I won't trust my judgment of that.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #193 on: August 18, 2017, 09:25:20 PM »
... even tho slavery was very uncommon in Appalachia.

 Exceptionally rare.  Most of southern Appalachia, though located in staunchly Confederate territory, were by-and-large pro-Union.  Of course, there were families who sided with the Confederates.  Even West VA, who broke off with VA proper to get away from the Confederacy, had families who were pro-Confederate.

Even Oregon, which had outlawed black "men, women, and children" at pain of the lash, altho they probably had none to begin with, was full of Confederates but the war was irrelevant to them in their geography and status as a territory.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #194 on: August 18, 2017, 10:08:28 PM »
... even tho slavery was very uncommon in Appalachia.

 Exceptionally rare.  Most of southern Appalachia, though located in staunchly Confederate territory, were by-and-large pro-Union.  Of course, there were families who sided with the Confederates.  Even West VA, who broke off with VA proper to get away from the Confederacy, had families who were pro-Confederate.

Even Oregon, which had outlawed black "men, women, and children" at pain of the lash, altho they probably had none to begin with, was full of Confederates but the war was irrelevant to them in their geography and status as a territory.

 Interesting.  I never would have guessed it.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #195 on: August 19, 2017, 09:19:18 AM »
No, you said you won't accept my observations about my own friend and the things he's told me, since they happen to pass through a white man, me.

You can try to spin it that way all you want, but anyone reading can see that's not what has transpired here.  You made some misguided observations relative to the issue of the African Diaspora, I corrected you on them, and you tried to tell me you were "well aware", in spite of your apparent obliviousness on certain issues, because you know a Dominican guy, and then proceeded to tell me a story from his life.  At that point, I suppose that in order to avoid being called a misanthrope I was supposed to acknowledge your familiarity with African diasporic matters.  Since that would ridiculous though, I decided I had no alternative but to risk your infamous ire.  I stand by my decision.  I like you, and you're a bright chap, but having a Dominican friend doesn't mean that you automatically understand facets of this discussion that are apparently unfamiliar to you.

And I'll point out that you have been telling mixed South Americans what to think of themselves in this thread, even in condemnatory terms. That's paternalistic.

If telling a person that has non-European ancestry that it is ridiculous for them to identify as white nationalists is "paternalistic", or that people of African descent shouldnt revile their own ancestors and envy someone else's, I suppose I'll have to cop to that charge  Next I'll be telling Jewish Nazis how to feel about themselves.  Arrogant, I know.  Almost at Porterian levels.

I appreciate that your knowledge of the black experience throughout the Americas is large, and I gladly admit mine is small by comparison. I enjoy learning from you, and hope you continue to teach and share in the thread.

I shall as time permits.  As a penitent misanthrope, I have learned my lesson: to question the knowledge of O'Doran is to hate mankind.  I stand chastened and rebuked.

I said I was "fairly well aware" and gave concrete examples in support of your own message of a kind you rightly wouldn't expect me to know. You proceeded to reject them on the grounds they were from me, since personalities are apparently more important than message to you today. You then seemed to imply you rejected them because I am white, but I won't trust my judgment of that.

You shouldn't trust your judgment on any of this, because it's all kinds of wrong.  Your pride and stubbornness just won't let you admit you were in over your head in this discussion and leaping to all sorts of wrong conclusions.  Forgive me for not accepting the "I know a Dominican guy" defense as proof that you are better acquainted with the subject "than I would expect".  You're apparently not and it isn't.
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #196 on: August 21, 2017, 01:24:06 PM »
Quote
Whenever a white dude starts a story this way as a lead up to how thoroughly he understands the black experience, you know it's not going to end well.  Whatever you're friend's experience's are, you are about as far removed from them as a person can be.


Why americans are allways saying that ''having black friends doesn't make you un-racist'' kind of talk?

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #197 on: August 21, 2017, 01:50:43 PM »
It used to be because racialist folks would preface denouncing blacks with "I know there are good ones" "I have a black friend that agrees with the following" and so on. Sheer rhetorical tactics. However, AN is demonstrating what's called "gatekeeping," a rhetorical tactic to shut down argument. Not very nice.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #198 on: August 21, 2017, 02:08:57 PM »
Quote
Whenever a white dude starts a story this way as a lead up to how thoroughly he understands the black experience, you know it's not going to end well.  Whatever you're friend's experience's are, you are about as far removed from them as a person can be.


Why americans are allways saying that ''having black friends doesn't make you un-racist'' kind of talk?

The argument is usually invoked in response to someone saying making a clearly racist statement and then, when called on it, saying, "But I can't be a racist.  I have a black friend!" as if this negates what they said or invalidates the idea that they might have racial hang-ups.  In this case, Porter is not saying something racist, but he clearly does not comprehend the complexities of being a person of mixed African descent in the New World and why it is problematic that people are incentivized by a racist system to identify with and emphasize non-African or mixed ancestry over African ancestry.  When challenged about that reality, he fell back on the fact that he had a Dominican friend as if this meant that he himself understood something that he does not understand through this other man's experience.

However, AN is demonstrating what's called "gatekeeping," a rhetorical tactic to shut down argument. Not very nice.

No, what I am doing is commenting on the fact that there are things which are beyond the realm of your expertise or even intimate familiarity.  As your posts in this thread have shown, the experience of peoples of African descent in the New World is one of them.  I'm not saying "It is impossible for any white man to be familiar with this subject and all of its complexities" but I am saying that at present, you don't have a handle on it.  Why is that so hard for you to accept?  What is it that you think qualifies you to speak as if you are knowledgeable on this subject?
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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #199 on: August 21, 2017, 02:09:16 PM »
Quote
Whenever a white dude starts a story this way as a lead up to how thoroughly he understands the black experience, you know it's not going to end well.  Whatever you're friend's experience's are, you are about as far removed from them as a person can be.


Why americans are allways saying that ''having black friends doesn't make you un-racist'' kind of talk?

Because going 'Blacks are [insert derogatory term here], but not my friend Tom; Tom is nice' suggests that 'Tom is nice because he acts white'.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #200 on: August 21, 2017, 02:11:14 PM »
No, what I am doing is commenting on the fact that there are things which are beyond the realm of your expertise or even intimate familiarity.  As your posts in this thread have shown, the experience of peoples of African descent in the New World is one of them.  I'm not saying "It is impossible for any white man to be familiar with this subject and all of its complexities" but I am saying that at present, you don't have a handle on it.  Why is that so hard for you to accept?  What is it that you think qualifies you to speak as if you are knowledgeable on this subject?

But... Porter's got intuition.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #201 on: August 21, 2017, 02:18:44 PM »
Quote
Whenever a white dude starts a story this way as a lead up to how thoroughly he understands the black experience, you know it's not going to end well.  Whatever you're friend's experience's are, you are about as far removed from them as a person can be.


Why americans are allways saying that ''having black friends doesn't make you un-racist'' kind of talk?

The argument is usually invoked in response to someone saying making a clearly racist statement and then, when called on it, saying, "But I can't be a racist.  I have a black friend!" as if this negates what they said or invalidates the idea that they might have racial hang-ups.  In this case, Porter is not saying something racist, but he clearly does not comprehend the complexities of being a person of mixed African descent in the New World and why it is problematic that people are incentivized by a racist system to identify with and emphasize non-African or mixed ancestry over African ancestry.  When challenged about that reality, he fell back on the fact that he had a Dominican friend as if this meant that he himself understood something that he does not understand through this other man's experience.

However, AN is demonstrating what's called "gatekeeping," a rhetorical tactic to shut down argument. Not very nice.

No, what I am doing is commenting on the fact that there are things which are beyond the realm of your expertise or even intimate familiarity.  As your posts in this thread have shown, the experience of peoples of African descent in the New World is one of them.  I'm not saying "It is impossible for any white man to be familiar with this subject and all of its complexities" but I am saying that at present, you don't have a handle on it.  Why is that so hard for you to accept?  What is it that you think qualifies you to speak as if you are knowledgeable on this subject?

Never claimed expertise. Offered stories from the personal life of a friend to support your own supposed expertise. You shut me down because they weren't "from the brother's mouth." Before that, you mocked my friendship because it's with "a black." I don't really care, and I know it was in the heat of the moment, but don't come back now the thread has cooled and act like you weren't being a bit of an ass.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #202 on: August 21, 2017, 04:14:49 PM »
No, what I am doing is commenting on the fact that there are things which are beyond the realm of your expertise or even intimate familiarity.  As your posts in this thread have shown, the experience of peoples of African descent in the New World is one of them.  I'm not saying "It is impossible for any white man to be familiar with this subject and all of its complexities" but I am saying that at present, you don't have a handle on it.  Why is that so hard for you to accept?  What is it that you think qualifies you to speak as if you are knowledgeable on this subject?

But... Porter's got intuition.

Exactly.  After perusing Porter's corpus on these boards over the course of the past few months, it has become evident to me that he thinks that nothing in the realm of human thought, history, or experience in beyond his capacity for "informed" commentary, very often based on little more than an intuitive "understanding" of the matter.  If someone were to post about being a cross-dressing Cambodian midget who was once the spiritual familiar of an evil sorcerer duck, he'd be like.



"I get it, man.  I once knew a guy from Thailand who saw a goose."

Never claimed expertise.  Offered stories from the personal life of a friend to support your own supposed expertise. You shut me down because they weren't "from the brother's mouth." Before that, you mocked my friendship because it's with "a black." I don't really care, and I know it was in the heat of the moment, but don't come back now the thread has cooled and act like you weren't being a bit of an ass.

As usual, you're the only braying ass in this entire situation, and a pompous one at that.  Your attempts at playing semantic games and spinning what transpired in our discourse to suit the cockeyed scenario you've outline above aren't going to work, since anyone with a working knowledge of English who didn't stare too long at the eclipse can read what transpired for themselves.  Let's run down the chain of events here:

*You were mystified as to why people in Appalachia would be inclined to pass off a dark ancestor as Native American or Turkish rather than black.  I clued you in as to why that might be so.

*Missing the forest for the trees, and again demonstrating your lack of understanding as it pertains to African New World identity issues, you attempted to dismiss an entire article on why black people in Brazil might not be inclined to embrace a specifically African identity because you read one line in one paragraph that didn't suit your political sensibilities and worldview.  When I called you on it, you attempted to move the goalposts and claim that your commentary was limited to the paragraph and not the article itself.

*In a failed attempt to demonstrate familiarity with - and awareness of - a subject you had heretofore proven yourself to be unfamiliar with, you invoked the name of a purported Dominican friend and a story he supposedly told you.  Again, this was not to support anything I had written, it was to deflect the criticism that you don't know squat about issues pertaining to African New World identity, a fact that you had already demonstrated twice in the discussion prior to this point.

*Unable to accept criticism on this point - because admitting that you didn't know what you were talking about would be a blow to both your giant ego and the image you want to project of being a knowledgeable and worldly man - you have been pitching a fit ever since.

I never said anything to you in the heat of the moment because I was never heated up, and I never said anything that I would attempt to walk back now.  I don't think the discussion has "cooled down" because I don't think it ever got heated up in the first place.  My criticism of your position in this thread and my statement that you were largely clueless on the issue of New World African identity remains.  My criticism of your using your friend - if indeed he exists - as a prop in this discussion to buy yourself some credentialing you're not gonna get remains, though I offered no criticism of the friendship itself on the basis of its being interracial.  So don't try to pull that mess.  As to my now "supposed" expertise that you freely acknowledged before I got on your bad side, not only am I of mixed ancestry myself, but I have advanced degrees relating to African and African Diasporic History.  What do you have, other than your intuition and another man's story?  You don't know it all, Porter.  And you don't know this subject.  That is all.  Deal with it.

If that's not the case, I ask again, what makes you think you are knowledgeable on this subject?  And I never said expert, so don't try that weak stuff again.  Just knowledgeable.  Go ahead and tell us.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 04:24:29 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #203 on: August 21, 2017, 04:26:35 PM »
"If indeed he exists ..." You can't stop being an (removed - Mor), can you?

Your criticisms of me in the long post above are quite fair. I do always have an opinion and I do usually take an obstinately self-assured tone. While I'm widely read, and do have a few perceptions of the world developed over years that I believe to be deep, on the other hand nobody could be the kind of expert my debating mask puts on. In fact, in many ways I'm unusually inexperienced and ignorant.

Edited to remove profanity.  Mor Ephrem, section moderator.

Porter ODoran:  You are an experienced poster on this board.  As such, you are quite aware that profanity and personal attacks are not permitted in the public forum.  You will receive a warning of 20%. 

Pravoslavbob, Non-religious topics moderator
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 09:57:51 PM by Pravoslavbob »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #204 on: August 21, 2017, 04:33:45 PM »
You can't stop being an (removed - Mor), can you?

Praise from Caesar is praise indeed.

Your criticisms of me in the long post above are quite fair. I do always have an opinion and I do usually take an obstinately self-assured tone. While I'm widely read, and do have a few perceptions of the world developed over years that I believe to be deep, on the other hand nobody could be the kind of expert my debating mask puts on. In fact, in many ways I'm unusually inexperienced and ignorant.

And on top of that, you have a potty mouth!

Edited to remove profanity from quote.  Mor Ephrem, section moderator.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 10:51:54 PM by Mor Ephrem »
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #205 on: August 22, 2017, 01:42:05 AM »
I'm not a fan of W.E.B. Dubois, but he's spot on with his assessment of Robert E. Lee.

http://cwmemory.com/2017/05/30/w-e-b-dubois-on-robert-e-lee/


Selam
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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #206 on: August 22, 2017, 08:14:57 AM »
I'm not a fan of W.E.B. Dubois, but he's spot on with his assessment of Robert E. Lee.

http://cwmemory.com/2017/05/30/w-e-b-dubois-on-robert-e-lee/


Selam

I'd forgotten about that piece.  A great find, Gebre.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #207 on: August 23, 2017, 10:07:51 PM »
Good gracious, all this time we've been in the public forums?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #208 on: August 23, 2017, 10:16:23 PM »
Well it's not like the civil war has anything to do with politics.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #209 on: August 23, 2017, 10:32:29 PM »
Just stunned. I guess Mina's willing and able to take a topic right to the edge before moving it. And I guess we've managed not to be too political yet! This is impressive.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #210 on: August 23, 2017, 10:43:45 PM »
Good gracious, all this time we've been in the public forums?

Another instance of Porter's willful cluelessness and selective amnesia.  I've literally had conversations with the guy that he claims have moved him to tears, and within a day or two he's forgotten who I am and conflated me with another poster.  He must've smoked a lot of weed back on the farm.

Just stunned. I guess Mina's willing and able to take a topic right to the edge before moving it.

Except we're in Pravoslavbob's forum.  You know, the guy who just addressed your potty mouth five minutes ago?  Geez man, bake much?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 10:52:12 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #211 on: August 23, 2017, 11:02:06 PM »
I thought Owen White was (back to?) being a Catholic? Different Owen White?
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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #212 on: August 23, 2017, 11:04:44 PM »
I thought Owen White was (back to?) being a Catholic? Different Owen White?
no idea but one shoukd still troll that petition
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #213 on: August 23, 2017, 11:07:43 PM »
I thought Owen White was (back to?) being a Catholic? Different Owen White?
no idea but one shoukd still troll that petition

Wow.  The actual petition is so ludicrous that it almost makes the parody redundant.  SCOBA will never take it seriously.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #214 on: August 23, 2017, 11:39:03 PM »
Just stunned. I guess Mina's willing and able to take a topic right to the edge before moving it. And I guess we've managed not to be too political yet! This is impressive.

I mean, Pravoslavbob. May his tribe increase.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #215 on: August 24, 2017, 11:42:39 PM »
Just stunned. I guess Mina's willing and able to take a topic right to the edge before moving it. And I guess we've managed not to be too political yet! This is impressive.

I mean, Pravoslavbob. May his tribe increase.

Amen.
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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #216 on: August 25, 2017, 09:39:15 AM »
I thought Owen White was (back to?) being a Catholic? Different Owen White?
no idea but one shoukd still troll that petition

Wow.  The actual petition is so ludicrous that it almost makes the parody redundant.  SCOBA will never take it seriously.

Just from the title alone, you'd have to be a ninja parodist to muscle your way past Poe's Law on that one.
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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #217 on: August 25, 2017, 11:16:44 AM »
I thought Owen White was (back to?) being a Catholic? Different Owen White?
no idea but one shoukd still troll that petition

Wow.  The actual petition is so ludicrous that it almost makes the parody redundant.  SCOBA will never take it seriously.

I think at least the older bishops will notice that Marshall Phillipe Petain (who died in 1951) confidently states in the first sentence of the petition that there were no Nazis there, just one flag. I am pretty sure the author meant to give the bishops an opportunity to chuckle.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Was the U.S. Civil War Over Slavery?
« Reply #218 on: August 25, 2017, 03:27:14 PM »
I thought Owen White was (back to?) being a Catholic? Different Owen White?
no idea but one shoukd still troll that petition

Wow.  The actual petition is so ludicrous that it almost makes the parody redundant.  SCOBA will never take it seriously.

Just from the title alone, you'd have to be a ninja parodist to muscle your way past Poe's Law on that one.

I know!  And the guy who authored it - apparently not secure enough in his convictions to do so under his real name - posted under the name of the leader of Vichy France.  As in, I'm not man enough to post this under my own name, and although I'd love too, I'm not man enough to post it under the name and picture of Hitler, so I'll post it under the name and picture of one of his collaborators/lackeys.  That way, if challenged, I can muster a defense and say, "What?  Petain's not racist!"  How close to a send-up of today's cowardly racists can you get?  It makes you nostalgic for the Klan.
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