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Author Topic: Serbs in Bosnia and the recent footage...  (Read 6375 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2005, 06:06:33 PM »

SP,

I'm just going to say a couple of things here...
 

Well, if you took the advice of just about everyone here, you'd have a little more insight into faulty presumptions you've made.

Like this for example...

ÂÂ
NO!ÂÂ  This is exactly why you should read before you speak (or write in this instance).ÂÂ  Self determination means the right to decide what to do with yourself.

ie- If you decide to reunite with your brothers and sisters all across the Balkans than it is your right to do so.
I know exactly what self determination means.  But it can be used at any level, from local city, to provincial, to national.  Thats why I asked you to clarify your position.  I did not make any assumptions.  Now that you have confirmed that your ideal is a bunch of Serbian banana republics then this proves my fears were right.  The default national order for the Serbian people is under one National Serbian State. The default should not be a bunch of provinces who then opt to join this or that.  The very possibility that a province could vote against this is unthinkable.  Democracy is a modern secular phenomenon which is fundamentally un-Christian.  Democracy allows the rule of the majority, when the majority are not always right.  Just because 90% of people might think that 2+2 is 5 does not make it right.  Democracy is also totally at the mercy of demographics.  Any Serb that believes in democracy, must then as a result agree that Kosovo must be Albanian.  No the majority is not always right!!! 


It's really not that difficult to understand where I'm coming from, that is, if you had taken the time to open your mind, before opening your mouth.
I respond to what you write, not your personal history, or anything else. 
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« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2005, 05:15:31 PM »

So now the SOC is a "Milosevic-era leftover."  The smear job continues...

===========
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20050615/wl_csm/ovideox_1;_ylt=AtuCVqiMQjpI7.etvsNa99TmJC0A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Serbs divided over grim video
By Beth Kampschror, Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
Wed Jun 15, 4:00 AM ET

"The traditional voices of denial - Milosevic-era leftovers like the military, the police, the Serbian Orthodox Church, and the nationalists controlling parliament - haven't changed their tunes."

==============


Also, the SOC did speak out on June 10th, according to the RFE/RL:

The Serbian Orthodox Church (SPC) issued a statement on 10 June condemning the killing in August 1995 of six Muslim civilians in Srebrenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina, by the Serbian paramilitary police unit known as the "Scorpions," as shown recently on Serbian television, RFE/RL's South Slavic and Albanian Languages Service reported (see "RFE/RL Balkan Report," 10 June 2005). The statement was titled "Our Lord, may it never happen again" and referred to "the cold-blooded killing of unarmed, defenseless civilians."

Get yer facts straight, "Christian" Science Monitor.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2005, 05:16:50 PM by Strelets » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2005, 10:22:13 AM »

Now the Hague "judges" are not allowing Milosevic to cross examine the witness concerning the video tape.ÂÂ  They claim that the cross examination is "politically motivated."ÂÂ  It doesn't matter what the motivations are, he's not being allowed to even discuss some of the discrepancies in what the prosecution is trying to show because to say the prosecution is wrong in political.ÂÂ  

They are also refusing to show videos of the beheadings of Serb civilians by the Bosnian Muslim army, allegedly based out of Srebrenica, because they are too brutal to watch.

Thank you, ICTY.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2005, 10:23:10 AM by cizinec » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2005, 11:06:54 AM »

apologies for the following article on Radovan Karadjics' Religious thought being in Serbian, but I don't have an English copy of the interview:

RELIGIOZNOST RADOVANA KARADŽIĆA

Malo je ljudi koji su tako brzo stigli iz anonimnosti lokalnog psihijatra do svjetski poznatog imena, kojeg su sljedbenici obožavali a ostali prezirali, kao što je pošlo za rukom Radovanu Karadžiću. Njegovi sljedbenici ga pozdravljaju kao vođu odlučnog da sprovede u djelo težnje bosanskih Srba da ujedine sve Srbe u jednu državu. Njegovi brojni protivnici smatraju ga jednim od najvećih ratnih zločinaca u ovom stoljeću. Ovakav publicitet pokrenuo je interes za njegov privatan život, za njegovu karijeru psihijatra (kao i za njegovu vlastitu psihu), za njegovo pjesničko stvaralaštvo (objavio je nekoliko knjiga pjesama), i za većinu njegovih stavova iz domena politike, međunarodnih odnosa i vojnih pitanja. Ali, praktično ništa nije bilo poznato o njegovoj vjeri.

Konačno, neke činjenice su se pojavile u intervjuu koji je Karadžić dao neidentifikovanom novinaru službenog mjesečnika Mitropolije Srpske pravoslavne crkve na Cetinju Svetigora (Vaskrsenje šćućurene duše, mart 1995, br. 35-36, str. 14-23). Neki naučnici će možda kasnije vršiti detaljnije analize Karadžićeve stvarne umjesto tobožnje pobožnosti, ali ovaj članak iznosi barem njegove vlastite pretenzije.

Ovaj intervju započinje izjavom da je on trideset četiri godine posmatrao u Sarajevu i njegovoj okolini (za koje on tvrdi da su bili u potpunosti srpski) srpske duše koje su bile u izgnanstvu i čučale negdje u dnu čovjeka. Posmatrao je Srbe koji su se povlačili u dubinu svoje prave prirode i koji su patili zbog svog svakodnevnog javnog ponašanja koje je toliko bilo suprotno njihovom unutrašnjem iskustvu. Ipak, kaže on, bosanski Srbi bili su hrabriji u sprovođenju svojih religijskih obreda, a posebno sahrana. Karadžić tvrdi da su vlastodršci bili potplatili neke Srbe da drže svoje sunarodnike u pokornosti i potčinjenom položaju.

U 1975. ili 1976., produžava Karadžić, on i još jedan poznati Srbin nosili su badnjak glavnom sarajevskom ulicom na Božić. To je doživljeno kao "drama", a na klinici je proglašeno aktom bezobrazluka.

Novinar je zatim upitao: "Moramo, dakle, shvatiti da je komunizam bio samo maska za islamizaciju?" Karadžić je odgovorio: "Apsolutno tačno. Nesrpski narodi koristili su komunizam da bi održavali Srbe u potčinjenom položaju, dok su promovirani nacionalni i vjerski programi rimokatoličke crkve i islama." Nadalje, on kaže da procenat ateista nije bio veći među Srbima, ali to se manifestovalo zato što su "Srbi mogli biti posvećeni svom Bogu i svojoj vlastitoj duši isključivo u svojim domovima i svojoj samoći".

Nakon toga Karadžić raspravlja o sudbini Muslimana (tj. BoÅ¡njaka) koji sebe smatraju Srbima po nacionalnosti. Karadžić tvrdi da su izgubljeni ili "promaÅ¡eni" Srbi oni koji su imali veći religijski interes i koji su preÅ¡li na islam, dok oni koji su zadržali kolektivnu svijest o srpskoj proÅ¡losti funkcioniÅ¡u kao Srbi čija je familija preobraćena u muslimane. PoÅ¡to ovi nemaju pravoslavnu duhovnost, imaju zato "pravoslavni bol pred Bogom". "Jasno je da je put spasenja za Srbe muslimanske vjere povratak u pravoslavlje. Ja to govorim potpuno odgovorno; ja znam da ne može svako činiti ovo ili ono i da to nije lako, ali ja znam da je to jedini put da se prevaziÄ‘e dualizam u njihovoj duÅ¡i. Oni su bili privremeno — Å¡ta znači nekoliko stotina godina u poreÄ‘enju sa vječnošću — u drugoj vjeri, bilo zbog pritiska okupatora, bilo zbog ličnog komfora... Å¡to ne znači da oni nemaju u sebi mnogo srpskog, kršćanskog i pravoslavnog. Po onome kako sada stvari stoje oni neće biti ni Muslimani ni Srbi." Zatim Karadžić otkriva svoje planove za sve bosanske Muslimane:

"Stoga, ja smatram da će se srpski narod u potpunosti oporaviti tek onda kada većina svih njih — ja govorim u narodnosnom smislu — uključujući i Srbe islamske vjere, izliječe svoje duÅ¡e i uÄ‘u u jedinstvenost svog bića. Ovo se, naravno, ne smije i ne može desiti pod prinudom."

Karadžić produžava sa tvrdnjom da je bilo prelazaka muslimana na pravoslavlje prije i za vrijeme rata, ali da pravoslavni sveštenici nisu željeli da ih krste za vrijeme rata, pa su tako neki morali putovati daleko, na primjer u Njemačku, da bi se pokrstili, a zatim vratili u Bosnu.

Neki od tih konvertita, nakon što su postali lojalni Srbi i pravoslavci, nalaze se sada blizu vrha rukovodstva bosanskih Srba. Zatim je Karadžić otkrio da je patrijarh Pavle I blagoslovio osnivanje fondacije "Sveti Jovan Krstitelj" koja će raditi na kristijanizaciji Srba i svih drugih koji to žele.

Upitan o svojoj vlastitoj ulozi u "nacionalnom preporodu" Srba, Karadžić je skromno negirao bilo kakvu svoju ulogu i ulogu svoje stranke, osim što su obnovili slobodu naroda i odstranili barijere, tako da su "duhovnost naroda i pravoslavna duhovnost počele teći sasvim prirodno, kao rijeka koju ne može zaustaviti niko osim Boga a, naravno, Bog to ne želi učiniti zato što Bog stoji iza toga".

Karadžić tvrdi da oni, sa političkog stanoviÅ¡ta, mogu biti ponosni jer su obnovili slobodu naroda, "sve drugo je Božije djelo. I Bog nam je vjerovatno podario slobodu poÅ¡to nas je on učio Å¡ta treba činiti, a Sveti duh nam je Å¡aptao Å¡ta bi trebalo govoriti, u Å¡to sam posebno uvjeren poÅ¡to sam često iÅ¡ao na skupove bez pripremljenog koncepta — ustvari tako je bilo uvijek, sa izuzetkom tri ili četiri značajna historijska skupa — i ja sam uvijek slijedio JevanÄ‘elje: Ne brini o tome Å¡ta ćeÅ¡ reći. Sam Duh će ti kazati Å¡ta moraÅ¡ reći".

Karadžić je zatim ustvrdio da je postojala namjera da se Srbi drže u pokornosti uz pomoć varke zvane "bratstvo i jedinstvo". Sada, oni Srbi, koji su bili žrtve titoističke propagande, najvatrenije podržavaju srpsku transformaciju. Psihijatar Karadžić objašnjava kako je to sasvim razumljivo, pošto su oni najviše ljuti jer su bili i najviše prevareni. On je podvukao da su četničko ponašanje (agresivni nacionalisti) najviše ispoljavala djeca Titovih partizana.

U vezi sa rimikatolicima, posebno Hrvatima, on smatra da su oni bili veoma mudri kada su svoj poraz u Prvom svjetskom ratu pretvorili u dobitak. Oni su prigrlili Srbe da bi odmah zatim poželjeli da rasture zemlju, uzimajući sa sobom sve ono što su Srbi osvojili u ratu. Isto se desilo i u Drugom svjetskom ratu. "I ovaj (sadašnji) rat bio je koncipiran na isti način. Ta politika je stigla pod istim zastavama, istim amblemima i grbovima, istom retorikom, istim željama i aspiracijama, ali Bog je ovaj put učinio da ne budemo pogrešno vođeni, i da budemo spremni."

Na pitanje kako se tradicionalni neprijatelji Srbi-četnici i Srbi-partizani mogu ponovo ujediniti, Karadžić se opredijelio za pravoslavni odgovor u vidu "pokajanja" i "pomirenja". Pokajanje ne treba biti javno, ali ako se svako pokaje u svom srcu, podjela na četnike i partizane ostaće samo u vicevima i šalama.

Karadžić je takođe kazao da su bosanski Srbi sada svjesni svoje historijske uloge predvodnika preporoda ne samo Srba već, čak, i Rusa. "Mi smo čvrsto uvjereni da smo na pravom Božijem putu i da će ovaj narod platiti svoj dug prema srpstvu i pravoslavlju. Svoje smrti, panje i izdržljivost mi prihvatamo kao Božiju milost i dar sudbine da sve ovo ostvarimo i, ako nam Bog dozvoli, da spasimo Srbiju i Crnu Goru od razaranja."

Karadžić vjeruje da je krajnje vrijeme da se bosanski Srbi upoznaju sa svojim pravoslavnim nasljeđem i da se počnu ponositi njime, što je ranije bilo potiskivano. "Mi treba da radimo na tome da se svaki Srbin upozna sa detaljima svoje vjere i posebno sa tim šta znači Božiji hram." Svako odvajanje od srpstva vodi nestanku nacije. Karadžić vjeruje da je isti slučaj i sa trenutnim pokušajima proglašenja autokefalnosti Makedonske pravoslavne crkve i da odvajanje Makedonije od Srbije ugrožava opstanak Makedonije.

"Njihov spas je u povratku u srpski narodni korpus, a ako oni žele u federaciju, mogu ostati suverena država unutar konfederacije. To bi ih spasilo i pomirilo sa Srbima i Grcima i održalo mitsku osovinu Atina-Beograd preko Skoplja. To bi bilo pravo rješenje."

Karadžić sebe vidi kao branitelja "našeg plemena i naše crkve, a Bog zna da smo koristili upravo onoliko sile koliko je bilo potrebno". O svojoj historijskoj ulozi i odgovornosti, on kaže:

"Bog mi je ukazao milost da mogu učiniti u svom životu neÅ¡to značajno, toliko značajno da mislim da je bilo vrijedno roditi se, živjeti i umrijeti, da bih pomogao svom narodu... Bog mi je dao dobro zdravlje... TeÅ¡ko je donijeti odluku — zato sam pitao mnoge ljude pa čak i djecu i, Å¡to je joÅ¡ važnije, pitali smo crkvu. Nijedna važna odluka nije bila doneÅ¡ena bez crkve.

Karadžić je odbio optužbe koje su stizale iz Srbije da su bosanski Srbi klerikalci, govoreći da Pravoslavna crkva naprosto ne može biti klerikalistička, već je blagoslovena time što ima izvanrednog mitropolita (vjerovatno misli na čvrstorukaša Amfilohija Radovića) i episkopa (npr. takode čvrstorukaša Atanasija Jeftića), koji ne nameću svoje poglede, već čekaju da budu pitani. Pošto su Srbi vijekovima patili za pravoslavlje, pravoslavlje je sada njihova odbrana i put spasenja. Crkva je uz Srbe.

Karadžić tvrdi da upravo njihovi neprijatelji u Hrvatskoj i Bosni vode Srbe ka "potpunoj obnovi srpske imperije, obnovi srpske države, takva je Božija volja". "Ja sam ubijeđen da će mi Bog pokazati koji put da izaberem i šta da činim. A to će, naravno, biti dobro, osim ako ja ne unesem neke svoje vlastite ljudske ideje."

Ni pod kakvim okolnostima oni se neće saglasiti sa gašenjem Republike Srpske, osim ako se ne radi o spajanju sa Srbijom, što prestavlja Karadžićev cilj i uvjerenje da će se desiti prije ili kasnije.

Zatim se Karadžić pridružuje stavu novinara da Srpska pravoslavna crkva treba da igra istu ulogu kao crkva u Grčkoj i da se treba vratiti julijanskom kalendaru, da bi se napravila razlika u odnosu na zapadne kršćane. On je, takoÄ‘e, izjavio da su djeca oduÅ¡evljena uvoÄ‘enjem vjerske nastave — pravoslavnog katehizma — u Å¡kole. A roditelji, koji imaju malo znanja o vjeri, kažu da je to jedini Å¡kolski predmet u kojem oni ne mogu pomoći svojoj djeci.

Karadžić je završio intervju riječima: "Mi želimo izlječenje i samo izlječenje, a ono zahtijeva jedinstvenost. Jedinstva nema bez ujedinjenja duhovnog i svjetovnog."

Može li se vjerovati Karadžiću? Sudeći po njegovim izjavama o namjerama prema muslimanima i o ujedinjenju svih Srba u jednu državu, izgleda da je odgovor potvrdan. Kada su u pitanju njegove izjave o vlastitoj religioznosti i božanskom usmjeravanju, samo on i Bog znaju odgovor. Lord Dejvid Oven (David Owen), pregovarač Evropske zajednice, koji se susretao sa Karadžićem u brojnim prilikama, na pitanje holandskog novinara da li on vjeruje Karadžiću, jednostavno je odgovorio: "Ne." Neka, dakle, sami čitaoci odluče da li će vjerovati Karadžićevim izjavama ili ne.

Medutim, autora ne okupira u tolikoj mjeri dilema vjerovati Karadžiću ili ne u vezi sa njegovim vjerskim izjavama, koliko pitanje kako jedna službena publikacija Srpske pravoslavne crkve kao Svetigora može voditi intervju na takav način da navodi Karadžića da daje provokativne i prijeteće etnoreligiozne izjave (iako mu i nije trebalo posebno sufliranje) i kako to da izdavač nigdje ne navede bilo kakvu ogradu od iznesenih stavova. Naprotiv, i ostali članci u Svetigori su podjednako ekstremni. Očito je da postoji opasnost od pravoslavnog fundamentalizma i militantnosti koji se obično ne otkrivaju ekumenskim posjetiocima. Smatram da matici pravoslavnih vjernika i ostalim vjerskim zajednicama treba ukazati na porast ovakve militantnosti unutar pravoslavnih crkava.


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« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2005, 11:53:15 AM »

SP,

I know you're not going to like hearing this, but please don't change the topic heading mid-stream, it gets difficult to follow (and there is a board rule against it). Thanks
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« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2005, 04:34:50 PM »

SP,

I know you're not going to like hearing this, but please don't change the topic heading mid-stream, it gets difficult to follow (and there is a board rule against it). Thanks
Fair enough i accept it is off topic, though since we were talking Bosnian Serbs I thought it might interest some people.  Next time i'll start a new thread.
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« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2005, 06:53:05 PM »

Hi, I'm not Serbian but I'm Orthodox. In any case, I wrote this poem about Serbia entitled "kosovo" for my poetry unit. I may post it up here when its marked. I was wondering something. As for Serbian Orthodox Patriarch Pavle, I just love him.

I've never met him or even read his writings but I have a picture of him in my room (wearing his liturgical attire and holding his cross- a very popular picture at that) and I could just see the sanctity in his eyes and the hope and empathy which he holds for his people. I really admire one thing which he is said to have said: "I will not own a car unless every Bosnian and Serbian household in Kosovo has a car." And for this reason he is called a saint. Do the Serbian people look up to him the way many of us do to?

I wish I could meet him one day -that would be such a blessing. It would be like being in the presence of Geronda Ephraim.

 
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« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2005, 09:54:38 PM »

Timos,

    What wonderful words!!! I think our beloved Patriarch is generally revered amongst the masses, although he has taken some criticism for the Churches membership in the WCC. 
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« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2005, 10:37:03 PM »

Indeed Timos, very nice comparison indeed.

I love the Patriarch.

It is amazing that even by the atheist serbs (those who are) he is considered a Living Saint.

THAT tells alot.

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« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2005, 09:05:40 AM »

Srebrenica Video Vindicates Long Pursuit by Serb Activist

By Daniel Williams
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, June 25, 2005; A15

BELGRADE -- Human rights sleuth Natasa Kandic, a wisp of a woman with a boyish haircut, spent hours in the cafes of Sid, a town in northern Serbia, listening to whispered tales of Balkan war killings. Then one day, she heard about the videotape.

It showed the summary executions in 1995 of six Muslim men and boys from the Bosnian city of Srebrenica. It had been passed around as a war souvenir among members of a shadowy Serb military unit called the Scorpions. Its commander had ordered copies destroyed, but one, she was told, still existed, held by a dissident member of the unit.

Since that day in 2003, she searched until she found the video. She gave it to the U.N. war crimes tribunal in The Hague, where former Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic is on trial, and to television stations in Serbia, where it triggered a sudden self-examination in a society that viewed itself as the prime victim of the Balkan war atrocities of the 1990s.

On the tape, burly Serbs dressed in camouflage, with cigarettes dangling from their lips, order bound prisoners into a small meadow, then shoot four of them in the back, at a time. The remaining two are ordered to carry the corpses into a wrecked white house. "You're the winners," one Scorpion barks at the body bearers, who are then also gunned down.

The broadcasts on June 2 ripped away the veil of secrecy and denial of Serbian military operations in Bosnia during the 1992-95 war, particularly the massacre of as many as 8,000 Muslim men and boys in and around Srebrenica. No longer was it possible to label atrocity tales as Bosnian Muslim propaganda amplified by inventive foreign correspondents, as many Serbs had done for a decade. The cold, relaxed pace of the executions undermined the common opinion that whatever happened in the Balkans was done in the chaos of war.

For Kandic, the video was a vindication. For almost 15 years, she labored to uncover atrocities committed by all sides in the Balkan wars, but most notably, crimes committed by her own people. During the 1990s, when Serbs fought wars in Croatia, Bosnia and the Serbian province of Kosovo, newspapers and officials variously labeled her as a prostitute, spy, traitor and lunatic.

These days, she gets phone calls from strangers praising her work. Police rounded up eight Scorpion suspects a day after the video was broadcast. A ninth was later detained in Croatia. Serbian Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica called the executions a "brutal, callous and disgraceful crime against civilians."

Speaking last week in Washington, the chief U.N. war crimes prosecutor for the Balkans, Carla del Ponte, said that during her recent visit to Serbia, she "could feel the impact of this video on all elements of Serbian society."

Kandic exudes little joy. A debate in parliament over a war crimes resolution last week degenerated into a dispute over whether Serbs were the main victims of atrocities, she noted. Moreover, the broadcast of the video has yet to result in the arrest of Ratko Mladic, the Serb general directly in charge of the Srebrenica operation. U.N. officials have repeatedly charged that he is hiding in Serbia.

"This government refuses to break with Milosevic's criminal state," Kandic said.

Kandic spoke on the balcony of a small Belgrade restaurant, chain-smoking and answering frequent calls on her cell phone. She travels around the city without bodyguards, though she acknowledges that someone might want to take revenge for the Scorpion arrests. Her activism is nothing new.

Before the wars, she was a sociologist. After hostilities began in 1991, she decided to research human rights abuses connected with the fighting. She founded the Humanitarian Law Center in Belgrade, organized candlelight antiwar vigils and mounted petition drives to protest the use of Serbian troops in the conflict with Croatia. "I documented abuses against Croats and was called a traitor," she said. "Then against Muslims. The same reaction. When I documented abuses against Serbs, there was silence."

During the conflict in Kosovo in 1999, she said, she traveled by taxi to the provincial capital, Pristina. Ethnic Albanians were being expelled or fleeing in fear from towns and villages. Serbian police looted and burned their homes. At police checkpoints, Kandic convinced guards that she was on her way to rescue Serb relatives, and they let her pass.

Kandic dodged NATO bombs as she traveled from town to town. She collected testimony on expulsions and mass killings. Once, security agents detained her for eight hours on the way to the southern city of Prizren. "First, they said: 'We know who you are. You could be disappeared.' But they let me go," she recalled. "Look at me. I'm little. I'm a woman. I'm not a scary person."

Kandic, 59, considers the waning years of Milosevic's rule, which ended in 2000, the most dangerous period of her career. It was a time of assassinations and roundups of journalists, opposition activists and student protesters. "Until then, Milosevic ignored us," she said. "We were few and served one purpose. He could point to us as proof of democracy."

In 2000, Col. Svetozar Radisic, then the Yugoslav army spokesman, told reporters that Kandic "should be sentenced for what she is doing. A person who puts forth such allegations might be a psychiatric case." She remained free even as she organized legal defenses for Kosovo Albanians held in Serbian jails.

In Sid, she was looking into a mass killing during the Kosovo war when she heard about the Srebrenica tape. Originally, 20 copies were made, she said. Later the Scorpions' commander realized the images could be used against him and ordered them destroyed. However, one Scorpion, who was at odds with his comrades and was not present at the executions, made an extra copy for himself. Fearful, he hid the tape with confidants in Bosnia, Kandic said. She set out to find it.

Other Scorpions, who had learned she was looking for a copy, began to scour Sid for it and harassed anyone they thought might have it. Finally, Kandic found the tape in Bosnia. She agreed to publicize it only when the owner and other informants were out of Serbia. That was accomplished on May 20.

The Scorpion tale provides a key to proving high-level Serbian responsibility for war crimes, Kandic said. "The Scorpions just didn't wander around on their own. They were ordered from place to place. . . . They were integrated into the war machine."

The Scorpions were first dispatched to guard oil fields in Croatia and to fight. They later took part in the siege of Sarajevo, the Bosnian capital. When Mladic launched an assault on Srebrenica in July 1995, he used Scorpions to evacuate and kill Bosnian prisoners, Kandic said.

The Scorpions also appeared in the Kosovo town of Podujevo on March 28, 1999, and massacred a group of 14 women and children in the walled garden of a small house. The local commander of the Scorpions unit in Podujevo, Sasa Cvjetan, stood trial in Serbia last year for the killings. He was found guilty and sentenced to 20 years in prison -- a sentence imposed again last week after a retrial. Kandic was deeply involved in bringing the Podujevo case to trial and was on its trail in Sid when the story of the Srebrenica tape surfaced.

The video begins with the Scorpions taking blessings from a Serbian Orthodox priest in Sid, then traveling through the Balkan countryside and sleeping in a wood. Six bound prisoners are shown being transported in a truck. Later the Scorpions force them to lie face down on the roadside. The captors taunt them.

"Did you ever have sex?" asks one commando. "Never?"

"You're innocent?" asks another. "I'd be innocent, too."

There is discussion about whether the video camera has sufficient battery power to record the whole scene and whether the tape needs changing. When all the bodies are in the house, one Scorpion demands permission to fire three more bullets at the corpses.

The tape ends with a pig roast.

Kandic wrapped up the interview after a caller told her the Serbian government was willing to open a war crimes investigation in another case she had worked on. A Serb paramilitary commander named Nebojsa Minic, who allegedly killed numerous civilians in western Kosovo when he ran a unit called Lightning, was under arrest in Argentina. She had fingered him as a culprit.

"All these cases are important," Kandic said and rushed off.

© 2005 The Washington Post Company
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TomS
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« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2005, 09:30:37 AM »

Greeks may have been involved

Justice Minister Anastassis Papaligouras accepted yesterday that it was possible that Greek volunteer fighters who joined Serb forces in Bosnia took part in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre when some 7,000 Muslim men are thought to have been killed. Papaligouras said Athens prosecutors were investigating the claims but clarified that no members of the Greek armed forces were involved in the massacre. His comments came after questions from independent MP Andreas Andrianopoulos.

http://www.ekathimerini.com
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« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2005, 03:33:52 PM »

Since it's Vidovdan, I'll quickly respond.

What isn't discussed in either these articles or the Western press in general is why Srebrenica was targeted by the Republika Srpska groups in the first place.

You can go to the streets in almost any Islamic country and purchase videos of Muslim forces, who were based in Srebrenica and protected by the UN, murdering Serbs with axes, swords, mallets, and all other sorts of perverse things.  The Serbs from the region, whose villages were being burned, mothers wives and sisters raped, and children murdered, were extremely  frustrated and their rage kept building.  Any Serb fighting in the region was frustrated by not being able to pursue an enemy who was targeting their civilian population.

So what happened when they got through?  They gave in to their worst impulses.  If the 7,000 figure is correct, and that is extremely doubtful, note that these were primarily men.  Many of them were fighters who had led a lusty and blood-thirsty rampage across Bosnia. 

You can search on the net and find photographs and videos of the murders by these "innocent civilians."  The funny thing is that many of the sites where these are found are Muslim sites bragging about what they did. 

Did some Serbian individuals act horribly in Bosnia?  Absolutely.  But what the article that's posted above is saying is *not* justified by the content of the video shown at the Hague.  Nor is it a smoking gun to the extent claimed.  It shows a small group of men doing something that we find offensive.  Who were the men executed?  What was their role in the murderous muslim rampage across Bosnia?  How many men were executed?  This video shows a few, not 7,000 and it certainly doen't do anything to verify that number.  How many "employees" of MPRI were evacuated from Srebrenica before it fell?

There are too many questions to this video to call it some sort of "smoking gun."
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