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Author Topic: Freedom of Speech Being Suppressed On This Forum? Re:Mr Barnes&Orthdx.mis-info  (Read 3601 times) Average Rating: 0
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EkhristosAnesti
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« on: June 02, 2005, 01:04:06 AM »

I have twice now tried to post my response in the Patriack Barnes and The Orthodox Mis-Information Centre thread, only to have my posts deleted. I believe this is the "Free For All" section of this forum, and there is nothing in my post breaking the forum rules. Is this what this forum has come down to?

My response to the Patriack Barnes and The Orthodox Mis-Information Centre thread:

Nektorius says:

Quote
I find it interesting that the heterodox (be they protestant, Latin or monophysite) are so obsessed with Patrick Barnes.


It’s really quite amusing how analogous the extremist polemical EO mindset is, to that of the polemical Islamic mindset - the more I listen to people like you the more apparent the comparitive qualities become. When I used to debate and refute Islam publicly and openly, Muslims would often accuse me of being obsessed with their prophetGǪit was an oft-repeated ad hominem charge employed to evade dealing with the issues at hand. Palestinian Christian apologist (and not a great one at that) Anis Shorrosh was also confronted with this same charge by an Islamic audience member in the Q&A time of one of his debates with Islamic apologist Jamal Badawi. A long-time friend of mine from the answering-islam.org website, Mr Shamoun, was also charged with obsession with the quacky Nadir Ahmed, for taking the time to deal with this wannabe-apologists ridiculous and outlandish claims.

The weak and feeble minded have to mindlessly resort to such self-defense mechanisms of denial when confronted with a challenge of their beliefs/opinions/position or even their hero’s, which they are unable to face or reasonably respond to, such that one’s persistence and dedication in exposing factual or logical fallacies of the opponent’s position becomes interpreted as an obsession with the opponent - according to their wishful thinking. If it is an obsession with anything, it is an obsessed pursuit in the name of Justice and The Truth.

I plan to address all Mr. Barnes’ claims against the Oriental Orthodox Church when I have the time in a month or so; I will probably even upload my articles on a counter-website - call me obsessed and shout out allahu akbar Mr Nektorios Abdullah; but we know the truth of the matter.

May the Lord help and cure the blind. Kyrie Eleison.

Peace.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2005, 01:08:07 AM by EkhristosAnesti » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2005, 01:10:36 AM »

I have twice now tried to post my response in the Patriack Barnes and The Orthodox Mis-Information Centre thread, only to have my posts deleted. I believe this is the "Free For All" section of this forum, and there is nothing in my post breaking the forum rules. Is this what this forum has come down to?

I hope not.  It looks like Anastasios' or Mor Ephrem's or Prodromos' place to answer this and handle things. 

Ebor
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« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2005, 01:25:31 AM »

I didn't twice delete your post if that is what you are insinuating. Is there a problem with your browser perhaps?

And FWIW my name is Nektarios.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2005, 01:26:26 AM by +Â¥+¦+¦-ä+¼-ü+¦++-é » Logged
EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2005, 01:36:05 AM »

NektArios

 I don’t recall accusing anyone directly or even indirectly of deleting my posts, but clearly they were deleted. There is nothing wrong with my browser, since my browser re-directed me to my particular post in that particular thread once it was posted. Ebor is my witness, since he initially read my post in that very thread and PM’d me concerning it before it was deleted, and before I reposted it here.

Peace.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2005, 01:39:31 AM by EkhristosAnesti » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2005, 05:25:15 AM »

Only one post of EkhristosAnesti's was deleted. Making disparaging remarks regarding forum moderators is more than likely going to get your posts removed or at the least edited, whether your comments are justified or not.

Oh, and this is a privately run forum. I don't know where people get the idea that members have "freedom of speech" Wink
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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2005, 06:28:55 AM »

Prodromos,

Quote
Only one post of EkhristosAnesti's was deleted.

I’m pretty sure that after the first time my post was deleted, that I posted it once again, only to find it deleted a second time. My net was running terribly slow however at the time, so if you can confidently confirm that only one was deleted, I won’t call you a liar, and we can attribute the absence of my second post to the problems I was having with my ISP.

Quote
Making disparaging remarks regarding forum moderators is more than likely going to get your posts removed or at the least edited, whether your comments are justified or not.

So in other words; moderators are allowed to abuse their privileges for personal advantage now, when their personal views or opinions are being challenged or attacked? The post in question which was deleted is above for everyone to see; they can decide for themselves, putting aside all “denominational bias” whether the nature of my post warranted its being deleted. I was making a point; I made it bluntly and I made it sharply, and it thus may be perceived as being made harshly, but nothing further - I’m not here to be a politician or a diplomat.

Quote
Oh, and this is a privately run forum. I don't know where people get the idea that members have "freedom of speech"

Well I’ve had no problems with this website until now; in fact the administrators have been great and I highly respect them and I hope they deal with any moderator who is abusing his privledge. When I was employing the same attitude, form, and style to respond to the Muslim (ahmed_deedat) and agnostic (josephofmessiah) who targeted this forum and started to attack the Orthodox Christian faith, no one had any complaints - in fact I only received encouragement and support; there seems to be an element of hypocrisy in all this.

If this is going to start turning into a dictatorship in which people can’t handle their positions being attacked or exposed for any inherent weaknesses or fallacies, then at least make it clear - don’t give people the false impression that this is an Orthodox site, if it wishes to suppress the Orthodox truth in the name of some distorted and narrow-minded conception of what true Orthodoxy really is.

Peace.
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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2005, 06:34:15 AM »


so if you can confidently confirm that only one was deleted


I can. Deleted posts are actually moved to a holding area. There is only one post of yours (from this thread) there.
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2005, 07:05:24 AM »

Oh, and this is a privately run forum. I don't know where people get the idea that members have "freedom of speech" Wink

Um, because that is what is promised in the description of the "free-for-all" area.

Ebor and I saw the post before it was deleted. We also saw the deletion of one of my posts. Evidence would suggest that Nektarios deleted both, and the peculiar wording of his response in this thread invites interpretation as an admission of guilt.
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2005, 07:35:14 AM »

My question is "What did the Administrators know and when did they know it?"

I STRONGLY object to the idea of an Administrator DELETING Posts - I can see editing them to remove offending WORDS but not offending THOUGHTS.
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2005, 07:42:44 AM »


Um, because that is what is promised in the description of the "free-for-all" area.


"Free-For-All
This is where you can discuss hot topics that might degenerate... if you don't like polemics, you are advised not to read this forum. Although unmoderated, we will erase a post that violates the rules of the forum. NOTE: No American political discussion."

You know what Keble? I have wondered from time to time where I might learn what the rules of the forum are, and I'm a moderator! Am I just perceptually blind and can't see what's right in front of my face or is there actually something missing here?

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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 08:04:51 AM »

Only one post of EkhristosAnesti's was deleted. Making disparaging remarks regarding forum moderators is more than likely going to get your posts removed or at the least edited, whether your comments are justified or not.

Oh, and this is a privately run forum. I don't know where people get the idea that members have "freedom of speech" Wink


It is true that, even in Free For All, posts which the administrators/mods perceive to cross the line can be deleted. 

Now, Anastasios is currently busy with a lot in life, and so am I, with my new job, personal issues, etc., and I'm sure Rob is also occupied.  Consequently, we trust the mods to take care of business, and don't usually like to second guess them.  I haven't been following the goings on here, and so cannot speak to any deletion of posts (although one such case has come to my attention, and I don't see the rationale for deleting it).  However, the use of the term "Monophysite" has been covered here before, and all the mods know about it, and the administrators agreed on it.  Hence, why it is being used by a moderator is beyond me.  I know some may agree, and some may disagree, but for the sake of peaceful posting here, it was agreed certain terms would not be used, and this was one of them.  I don't know if anyone is abusing mod privileges to edit/delete posts they don't agree with (I'd like to think not), but I hope this isn't an instance of someone abusing mod privileges to violate a policy the administrators (mostly in absentia these days) agreed to. 
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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2005, 08:23:01 AM »

Dude, it's their forum and they can do what they want and change the rules at any time without notice.

You can always start your own forum or send PMs or send emails. This here forum is owned (i.e. purchased) by a group of guys who think that whatever it was you said didn't belong on their site.

Don't get your feathers up.
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2005, 08:37:03 AM »

Private property is not under Freedom of speech! Grin

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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2005, 08:47:57 AM »

I don't know if anyone is abusing mod privileges to edit/delete posts they don't agree with (I'd like to think not), but I hope this isn't an instance of someone abusing mod privileges to violate a policy the administrators (mostly in absentia these days) agreed to.   

In the past, when posts were deleted, there was at least notice/admission that this had happened. In this case, Ebor and I both noticed that my post had disappeared from the list. I knew it was posted OK because the article was still there on one of my windows. After sending messages to some of the moderators/administrators, I reposted the article in slightly modified form. (My apologies, Podromos, for omitting you.) Shortly after that we saw EA's article disappear in the same way.

Without any acknowledgement that the articles even had been deleted, I have only the articles themselves as evidence of whether they were offensive.
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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2005, 08:54:59 AM »

Quote
"Free-For-All
This is where you can discuss hot topics that might degenerate... if you don't like polemics, you are advised not to read this forum. Although unmoderated, we will erase a post that violates the rules of the forum. NOTE: No American political discussion."

Forum rules given upon registration to this website:

Quote
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of ANY law.

The analogy made in my post, though subjectively offensive to the category of people it addresses is nonetheless reasoned, and objectively justified and valid. If moderators are not going to employ an objective criterion with regards to considering what is offensive, they can delete 50% of this forum, since people are attacking each others position all the time, and this is in and of itself offensive to the one holding such a position in the first place.

Secondly, please answer to the hypocrisy. Why is it NOW, that my posts are being deleted? I haven’t changed; my style has been consistent throughout my time here, in addressing all sorts of people and in opposition to all sorts of viewpoints/arguments being made - the above post is no worse or better than many I have made. Would you like to go back and delete all my posts?

Furthermore, I love the fact the administrators are against the provision of FALSE material. I wander how one comes to the conclusion that information is false? If the basis or evidence for certain assertions or claims are challenged, and such a challenge is not sufficiently responded to, and in fact the counter-evidence against such assertions and claims provided for; is this not reasonable enough to conclude that such claims and assertions are thus false, and should consequently be deleted? No one on this forum has been able to backup their monophsyite claim against Oriental Orthodox Christianity, and I have thoroughly dismantled those which attempted and provided the counter-evidence which my Lord has preserved and maintained in order that justice be served and the truth of The Oriental Orthodox Church be vindicated against those who wish to harm and persecute her. Why are not their posts deleted? How strict do you really want to be when enforcing these above rules? “Very”, when it supports your subjective personal position, and “not very”, when it doesn’t really do you any favours?

Peace.
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2005, 09:03:13 AM »

Czinec

I’m not dictating to anyone how they should do their job; I’m simply exposing inconsistencies, bias, discrimination, injustice and other evils. Furthermore, it is the administrators who own this website not the moderators, and surely the administrators can run their site as they wish - it is not them I am attacking. Moderators are not administrators; I believe they’re members of the forum selected by the administrators, and elevated to a specific level authority and trusted to perform a specific job. I plead that this authority is being abused and that their job is not being done properly. If the administrators disagree with me, and feel content that my post was deleted, then so be it.

Peace.
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« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2005, 09:06:53 AM »

Guys, everybody really needs to chill out.

The moderators/creators of this board have been kind enough to create an avenue for Orthodox individuals to express their opinions. They have THEIR rules, which we should all be willing to play by, even if those rules change mid-game (not saying that they have, just giving it as an example).

Its like a group of kids playing basketball (and only one ball available). If the kid who owns the ball has got to leave for dinner, the game ends...

In any event... I think the moderators do a wonderful job here (in spite of the constant harrassmant). You know. looking a little introspectively, we OC's (non-Chalcedonians included) can be a bit over bearing at times. Wink

Keep up the good work guys.
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« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2005, 09:10:31 AM »

My question is "What did the Administrators know and when did they know it?"

I STRONGLY object to the idea of an Administrator DELETING Posts - I can see editing them to remove offending WORDS but not offending THOUGHTS.

It wasn't an admin who was on last night, but a mod.  Whenever an admin has deleted something (that I recall) they have always posted a notice.

Ebor
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2005, 09:13:27 AM »

It wasn't an admin who was on last night, but a mod.

Yes. And Nixon did not actually break into the Watergate. That is why I posted that particular quote.

Just stirrin' the pot, Me lady!
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« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2005, 09:18:03 AM »

Dude, it's their forum and they can do what they want and change the rules at any time without notice. 

You can always start your own forum or send PMs or send emails.  This here forum is owned (i.e. purchased) by a group of guys who think that whatever it was you said didn't belong on their site.

But it *wasn't* any of the owners who did this.  None of them were on. 

"Freedom of speech" may not apply, but perhaps the point  is one of umm questionable use of moderator power.

Ebor
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« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2005, 09:19:52 AM »



Yes. And Nixon did not actually break into the Watergate. That is why I posted that particular quote.

Well, you're right.  *Nixon* didn't break into the Watergate..... He had others do it, but he himself didn't tape the lock.  Grin

Do you realize, btw, that many on this forum weren't *Born* when Watergate happened?!? Gad.  I feel old.

Ebor
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« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2005, 09:47:46 AM »

Guys, everybody really needs to chill out.

 :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:  :flame:

OK, SS99, let me get this straight: you're saying it's OK for a moderator to lose his temper and delete posts without comment, but it's bad that (a) this behavior angers me, and (b) I express my annoyance at such behavior?

And while I'm at it:

I am outraged at this notion (which I've now been fed at two different fora in a single week) that ownership implies some sort of sacred right to behave badly. How anyone claiming to be a Christian can say that with a straight face is quite beyond me. Everything we say or do, we do as a sacred trust from the creator. Every evil we do with what we have been entrusted with is a violation of that trust. Even the evil we do in the secrecy of our hearts is thus denounced by Jesus himself. Saying "it's theirs; they have a right" is nothing more or less than a rationalization.
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2005, 10:09:16 AM »

Well, I'm sure this will be dealt with shortly.  It is sad that EA's post was deleted by a moderator for inflammatory content, yet Nektarios (a moderator) is allowed to use the inflammatory word "monophysite" and his post isn't edited or deleted by the other moderators.  With that I take issue.  I have written to Anastasios and asked him to look into it.  Moderators, if you are going to delete one post with an inflammatory nature, I suggest you be fair and delete all posts which violate the rules, even if they were made by moderators.  If anything, you should be the paragons of appropriateness.
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« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2005, 10:19:28 AM »

ah... and I thought CF was bad  Grin


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« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2005, 11:33:11 AM »

When I was employing the same attitude, form, and style to respond to the Muslim (ahmed_deedat) and agnostic (josephofmessiah) who targeted this forum and started to attack the Orthodox Christian faith, no one had any complaints - in fact I only received encouragement and support; there seems to be an element of hypocrisy in all this.

Not exactly. When you were attacking Islam and agnosticism, most people in this forum liked it because they regarded your posts as cases for the truth. The perception changed when you started to attack Eastern Orthodox Christianity, the religion followed by most of us.

It is quite obvious that, in a forum that gather supporters of any worldview, attacks against rival worldviews will not only be allowed, but even encouraged, while attacks against the worldview supported by most of the members of that forum will face strong reaction, not only by the other members but also by moderators/administrators, and possibly suppressed at all. It happens all the time in forums Roman Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, left-wing, right-wing, communist, anarchist, conservative, skeptical etc... "Ahmed Deedat" was banned from here, but he wouldn't be banned from a Muslim forum; rather you would be kicked out if you tried to post there the same things you were allowed (and encouraged to) post here. This is not "hipocrisy" at all, but a basic necessity of human psyche: people who support a certain worldview legitimately expect some places in the world to be kept as places in which they are allowed to express their adhesion to that worldview, free from the opposition or criticism they will find elsewhere. They do not want to find truth through discussion, even if it seems so; actually they want to share the truth they think they have already found.

While you are obviously a well-read and intelligent man (probably more than me), you are still very young. So I dare to tell you a thing I learned from my experience: there is no single place in the world where freedom of speech and discussion is absolute, even if such freedom is stated as a principle. In media, in church, in academia or even among your friends and relatives, you will always find official or non-official restrictions, more or less taboo subjects or approaches, and more or less popular support to censorship. Attempts to break through such limits are almost always frustrating. The only place in the world in which discussion can be absolutely free is your mind -- as much as you allow it. "Public" discussion forums, like this one, are good places to collect facts; but they may not work so well as places to expose conclusions, if such conclusions are not agreeable to the generally accepted views. As a consequence, public discussions are normally fated to a greater or lesser degree of superficiality. Things do not always must be like that, and sometimes they are not; but it is naive and exaggerately optimistic to suppose that public discussions will generally be as rich, enlightening and exacting as the inner discussion that takes place inside you.
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« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2005, 11:37:48 AM »

Ah senor Felipe, wisdom!

Very true!
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« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2005, 11:42:16 AM »

By the way, you know many EO Christians systematically call the Oriental Orthodox Churches as "Monophysite", and you complain about it; but you systematically call Mr Barnes' website, which is much-regarded by no few posters here, as "Orthodox Mis-information Center".

If we are to avoid hipocrisy, we could agree about calling all institutions, people and sources by their official names. Or stop complaining if the opposite side decides to use derogatory names instead. I am for the first option.
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« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2005, 11:46:52 AM »

The perception changed when you started to attack Eastern Orthodox Christianity, the religion followed by most of us.

He "attacked" EO Christianity? Darn if I have seen this in any of his posts. He may have disagreed strongly with a sepcific position taken or explanation given by some EO's on this board - but I don't see any examples of him attacking the Faith.

.. but you systematically call Mr Barnes' website, which is much-regarded by no few posters here, as "Orthodox Mis-information Center".

And what is wrong with that? In certain cases the information Barnes spews out IS mis-information to EO liberals.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2005, 11:49:36 AM by TomS » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2005, 12:01:16 PM »

OK, SS99, let me get this straight: you're saying it's OK for a moderator to lose his temper and delete posts without comment, but it's bad that (a) this behavior angers me, and (b) I express my annoyance at such behavior?

And while I'm at it:

I am outraged at this notion (which I've now been fed at two different fora in a single week) that ownership implies some sort of sacred right to behave badly. How anyone claiming to be a Christian can say that with a straight face is quite beyond me. Everything we say or do, we do as a sacred trust from the creator. Every evil we do with what we have been entrusted with is a violation of that trust. Even the evil we do in the secrecy of our hearts is thus denounced by Jesus himself. Saying "it's theirs; they have a right" is nothing more or less than a rationalization.

Ahh.... can you say reading a bit too deeply into it???  Take a deep breath, step back and relax.

Many here (like me) came here as a means of gaining greater knowledge of the faith through discussion.  I enjoy reading everything EA writes and as a general rule, don't like censorship...but what I'm talking about is cutting the moderators some slack.

You know that whole forgiveness stuff???

This is a valuable vehicle for us, at the very least we can discuss matters in a dignified manner and with out the need for interesting  :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame: little emoticons to show our displeasure with someone.
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« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2005, 12:23:18 PM »

[...]but what I'm talking about is cutting the moderators some slack.

"Cut them some slack" means "I think it's OK for them to do this." I don't think it's OK, so no slack.

Quote
You know that whole forgiveness stuff???

Who says that anything is unforgiven? How about "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? If you discovered that your postings were being deleted without notice, how would you react? Would you be cutting "some slack"?
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« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2005, 12:48:37 PM »

Felipe Oritz,

Quote
The perception changed when you started to attack Eastern Orthodox Christianity

Sorry sir, but I did not attack Eastern Orthodox Christianity. I attacked the pathetic polemics of extremist Eastern Orthodox Christians against Oriental Orthodox Christianity.

There is One Orthodox Faith, and I determine one’s Orthodoxy on valid criterion pertaining to essential doctrine, which thus does not preclude the Chalcedonian Church regardless of our differences - which I understand, and have thoroughly argued, as merely pertaining to historical issues regarding the status of councils (local Orthodox vs. Ecumenical) and the appropriateness, reliability, validity of semantic preferences; so the attack is not on your Orthodoxy, the attack is on your unsubstantial denial of my Orthodoxy based on the above mentioned issues. But again, I repeat my essentially implied purpose throughout all of this; I’m not here to change anyone’s subjective beliefs - but only to expose them to the raw truth and reason which conflicts with and contradicts their polemical position, and which should ultimately convict their conscious next time they decide to publically throw around the same false charges; hopefully realizing from their past experience, that to do so would be nothing less than dishonest.

If Bob wants to view me a heretic as Ahmed wants to view me a kaffir, then I am happy for both Bob and Ahmed. However if Bob wants to arrogantly voice his opinion axiomatically without feeling the need to justify any inherent presuppositions in his charges against me, and if Ahmed wants to arrogantly voice his opinion axiomatically based on blatantly false presuppositions, then I will proclaim the truth against the two in a manner I see fit; and if I dish it out equally, it is clear double standards if Ahmed’s friend Joe, applauds my manner in dealing with Bob, and rebukes and criticizes my manner in dealing with Joe. The fact he agrees with the subject matter of my arguments against Bob, whilst disagreeing with the subject matter of my arguments against Ahmed, does not reasonably justify his double standards.

In any event, the fact of the matter is, I was not criticized for content (this was not the basis of the justification for deleting my post, though it is obviously the motive), but for the form/manner. That the subject matter determine how lenient or severe my form/manner is dealt with, is blatant inconsistency, discrimination, bias, and hypocrisy, especially in light of the fact that apparently this website is a home for Orthodox Christians; a title understood and recognized by the sound and prudent minded administrators as being legitimately applicable to the Oriental Orthodox Church as much as it is for the Eastern Orthodox Church. I repeat, this is NOT even an exclusively EASTERN Orthodox website - If I am mistaken, then I will wait for the official administrators; Anastasios, Robert, Mor Ephrem (an OO himself) to correct me.

Quote
By the way, you know many EO Christians systematically call the Oriental Orthodox Churches as "Monophysite", and you complain about it; but you systematically call Mr Barnes' website, which is much-regarded by no few posters here, as "Orthodox Mis-information Center".

And here is the crunch my friendGǪ.

I have PROVEN that such a website spreads misinformation. Essentially the same claims that they throw against The Orthodoxy of the Oriental Church have been dealt with on this very forum sir, by the very puppets of this website in the first place. I have JUSTIFIED my charge of mis-information. Do you really need me to link you to the relevant threads and posts?

In contrast, I have not yet seen ONE person on this forum justify the monophysite claim. I have been BEGGING someoneGǪANYONE, to show me where My Church has ever confessed to a) a confusion of the two natures of Christ, b) a denial of the continuing reality of one or the other, or c) a denial of the divine and/or human’s respective consubstantiality with the Father and mankind. These are the defining attributes of monophysitism, deal with it - shut me up already and show me when, where, and who confessed this. There is no evidence to support you my friend; In fact I dare you to even prove that Eutyches himself ever held to the Eutychian heresy! (My church condemned Eutyches long ago btw, but just like his condemnation by your Church - it is based on the assumption he truly adhered to this heresy - the very shaken assumption Chalcedon was based upon in the first place.)

Peace.
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« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2005, 01:09:33 PM »

A couple of general suggestions:

Mods/Admins:  Abide by your own rules, or at least try and remember them if you have forgotten (re: saying "Monophysite" recently).  Also, when a post is deleted, leave the post, just delete the content and leave a small note saying it violates forum rules in a differnt font color.  Otherwise, a big hullaballoo like this will likely ensue.

Everyone else:
When stating potentially polemical/controversial positions, say, "In my opinion, blah blah." or "It seems to me, blah blah." or something else.  Unless you have a strict citation, don't say something as if it is a fact, but preface it with one of these examples to show that it is your opinion.  Even if you say, "I have heard that....", at least someone will know that you don't have any hard evidence, but that your information is second hand/hearsay even if it may be true.

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« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2005, 01:15:12 PM »

X...cellent suggestion. I second it, so let it be...so let it be written.

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« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2005, 01:16:49 PM »

Elisha has said what I was going to, so I'll just "third" it as a mod and leave it as a good closing note, with one little addition:

When someone does offer the disclaimer of "I have heard that," let us be gentle in our requests for citations.  We've all got other things to do with our time (hopefully!), and such citations take time to find.  It may happen; it may not.  But neither this forum nor any other website is the be-all-end-all of theological opinion.

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« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2005, 02:57:50 PM »

Friends,

I am very sorry that some posters were called trolls while other posters were called monophysites.  As you know, the latter term is not allowed on this forum as it is prejorative.  Posters are allowed to hold any view regarding EO/OO relations that they wish, as long as they express them politely.  I can see how Nektarios was offended when Orthodoxinfo.com was called extremist and even given a new name by some posters (OrthodoxInfo.com is actually representative as far as I can tell of a large majority of the Eastern Orthodox world), but that in no way gives him or anyone else the right to violate forum rules against prejorative terms, etc.

If a moderator oversteps his boundary, there is only one appopriate way to deal with it, though: private message me or Mor Ephrem (Phil) and we will take care of it. Posting in public your complaint just leads to a free for all that I and the other moderators have to sort through. It's time consuming and utterly confusing.  I am on vacation and just spent 45 minutes trying to figure what happened out--it's akin to walking into a trashed house and trying to figure out how things got knocked over. Three posters did send me private messages and it was very helpful in my attempts to sort through the mess.  Thank you also to Pedro and Phil and John (Prodromos) for their efforts to put a stop to the confusion.

At any rate, I apologize to our Non-Chalcedonian membership for the term monophysite being thrown at you.

Anastasios
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