OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 01, 2014, 05:07:51 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: catechumen enrollment  (Read 2100 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
rosemarie
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15



« on: June 01, 2005, 07:53:53 PM »

My kids and I are going to be enrolled as catechumens this weekend, but I've never seen it done.  Exactly what does it entail?  Do I have to say anything?  Do anything besides look uncomfortable?
 Huh
Logged
choirfiend
ManIsChristian=iRnotgrEek.
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 903

Rachael weeping for her children, for they are not


« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2005, 08:13:56 PM »

Normally, nope. In my parish, the new catechumen stand in the back doorway, the priest comes back and says some prayers over them, and that's it. Then, at least in our parish, during the Litany of the Catechumens, all the catechumen come and stand before the ambo and Royal Doors (the center doors of the iconostas, where the clergy enter) and the priest comes out and reads the prayers audibly over each of them by name at the end of the Litany, then they return to their spots when the priest says "Let all catechumen depart, let no catechumen remain"

And congratulations!!!!!!! Welcome home!!!!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2005, 08:14:19 PM by choirfiend » Logged

Qui cantat, bis orat
Donna Rose
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 937


« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2005, 08:44:25 PM »

in my situation, i did have to read something: i did the renunciations of my former religion (RC) at my entry into the catechumenate, which were just a Q&A thing that the priest asks and you answer, reading the whole time. if i recall, none of the people i know who actually went thru the service did this at the entry into the catechumenate, but ther priests held off until the actual reception service (in their cases, chrismation). anyway, it will be up to your priest Smiley and if there's anything for you to say, you will 1) get to read it, and 2) probably get a copy before hand (ask for one if he tells u u'll hafta speak) Smiley
Logged

hmmmm...
yBeayf
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 708

/etc


« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2005, 10:08:08 PM »

If you're having the actual service of the making of a catechumen performed, you'll also have to spit out the door (a symbol of renouncing satan), so don't be surprised when you're asked to turn around and spit.
Logged
rosemarie
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15



« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2005, 12:59:03 AM »

Thanks to all.  Geeze, I don't know about the spitting.  My little boys would probably enjoy that a bit too much.   Grin
Logged
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2005, 03:22:04 AM »

If you're having the actual service of the making of a catechumen performed, you'll also have to spit out the door (a symbol of renouncing satan), so don't be surprised when you're asked to turn around and spit.

Nobody actually spits do they? Both in Romanian and Greek churches (at least all the ones I've attended) the 'spitting' is more like harshly blowing air through your lips - I don't think the priest would be to pleased at having a mess left on the church floor.

Romanians actually do this 'almost spitting' a lot to ward off the devil (almost like superstitious westerners might knock on wood). Do other Orthodox nationalities do similar, or is this a Romanian peculiarity?

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,422


« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2005, 03:37:55 AM »



Nobody actually spits do they? Both in Romanian and Greek churches (at least all the ones I've attended) the 'spitting' is more like harshly blowing air through your lips - I don't think the priest would be to pleased at having a mess left on the church floor.

Romanians actually do this 'almost spitting' a lot to ward off the devil (almost like superstitious westerners might knock on wood). Do other Orthodox nationalities do similar, or is this a Romanian peculiarity?

James

I've seen plenty of spitting before.  Just don't do it on someone.
Logged
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2005, 04:53:05 AM »



I've seen plenty of spitting before. Just don't do it on someone.

Ah, so were the Romanians and Greeks practicing economy?  Wink Sorry, but I couldn't resist - so many here lately seem to be emphasising strict literalism over the spirit of things.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
Augustine
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 565

pray for me, please


WWW
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2005, 10:29:22 AM »

The full, "proper" catechumate rite, involves renouncing sin and (if applicable) the key errors of one's past religious affiliation, and then the profession of the Orthodox faith as well as the promise of obeying the lawful Orthodox hierarchy and pastors.  As part of the renunciations, one does "spit" at the devil, but one should keep the saliva to a bare minimum.

In some places, this full rite is kept until the last minute, until the time of Baptism (or Chrismation where applicable).  Hopefully, the renunciations are being observed whatever the case, since their ommission is incorrect and extremely "telling" in it's own way (and if not so, then just incredibly negligent.)

We're very fortunate in our parish, as the Priest makes a point of having this little ceremony (in full) at the begining of everyone's catechumate (thus making it official and not informal), and has it right after the Divine Liturgy on Sunday (so as to have everyone present in the parish, to be witnesses.)  It's a nice, and fairly brief ceremony.

Logged
choirfiend
ManIsChristian=iRnotgrEek.
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 903

Rachael weeping for her children, for they are not


« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2005, 01:39:47 PM »

Yes, in my parish, the renunciation happens at Baptism or Chrismation. The informal bit (which I believe is done because the catechumen can certainly still change their mind and they usually dont KNOW alll the Orthodox beliefs yet to subscribe fully to them) is done directly following the sermon, again, with the full church as witness. We have 2 right now and it had been about a year since we had the last batch chrismated, but hopefully they'll keep coming in!
Logged

Qui cantat, bis orat
Augustine
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 565

pray for me, please


WWW
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 03:30:40 PM »

choirfiend,

Quote
Yes, in my parish, the renunciation happens at Baptism or Chrismation. The informal bit (which I believe is done because the catechumen can certainly still change their mind and they usually dont KNOW alll the Orthodox beliefs yet to subscribe fully to them) is done directly following the sermon, again, with the full church as witness. We have 2 right now and it had been about a year since we had the last batch chrismated, but hopefully they'll keep coming in!

I can understand the rationale about "not knowing" all of the basic Orthodox beliefs.  However, there is a flip side to this - formal enrollment into the catechumate not be done right away, but after a period of "inquirer status" in which at least the basics are made known.

Also, it's my understanding that while certain major evangelical doctrines were matters of public preaching, a lot of the weighty things which we regard as core dogmatic teachings (Christological teachings, Triadological teachings) were in fact not explained in the early Church until one was made a catechuman - at most they would have had exceedingly basic things, like the Creed, read in their hearing, but little beyond this.  In fact in the earliest period, it's likely even matters that eventually were formally stated in the Creed were not explained until well into the catechumate.  Thus, while St.Peter preached to the Jews that "this man Jesus" was "approved by God" and had come to save them from their sins, and that He was the Moschiach spoken of by the Prophets, alot of the weighter stuff would not have been a matter of public preaching (such as His Deity, or the Mystery of the Holy Eucharist, etc.)

So, there is another side to that.  However, I think nowdays either approach has it's practical side.  And certainly what is important, is that people do receive proper instruction, and do at least become "practical" in their faith prior to being Baptized.

Logged
Arystarcus
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 836


« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2005, 02:56:54 AM »

Quote
In some places, this full rite is kept until the last minute, until the time of Baptism (or Chrismation where applicable).

This is how it was at my own chrismation.

I recall reading about this rite on the forum before my chrismation and wondering what people were talking about because i was never "made" a catechumen.

If I had known more about the converision process and this rite, I would have asked for it off the bat.

In Christ,
Aaron
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.057 seconds with 38 queries.