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Author Topic: brief thoughts from a possible catechumen...  (Read 2096 times) Average Rating: 0
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ByzantineSerb
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« on: June 05, 2005, 11:56:27 PM »

I went to the Greek Church today, as I had gotten off of work early; I was suffering some bad pain in my ear, and I don't really have time for church on Sunday due to work, so I made time to visit Annunciation GO.

The liturgy was lovely, and I was just taking in the beautiful chants and what not. Afterwords during "hospitality", a gentleman came up and introduced himself; he is an "Anglo" convert, and he actually had just been crismated with his wife and kids this January; former protestants they were/

They introduced me to a doctor, who also had entered Orthodoxy with her husband and daughters in January, told me that her husband was Catholic, and I am thinking of talking with him, what made him cross that line. In fact, that'd be almost better than talking with a priest who never was Catholic (Roman). Dn't get me wrong, I'm still talking with the priest.

Some thoughts I had after my great, friendly visit: if I do convert, I wouldn't be rejecting my old faith; for me, Churches with so much in common, ecclesiastically and spiritually speaking, that trash eachother are only serving the devil's purposes. I think the devil has always won due to our separations and misrusts, but that's just me. I see becoming Orthodox as bringing me into a better spiritual, religious reality of Christ's veracity, not rejecting pagan ways. If I were Muslim, Buddhist, oagan, or etc., then that's probably how I would view it.

I like the pope, especially John Paul the Great, and his efforts to unite east and west. I can agree, in a sense, that popes have taken more authority than they deserved, and a good number were a bunch of simonious creeps anyhow. I like the West, or what is left of it, but I find the East to be more continuous, sustaining, etc.

Pax.
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2005, 12:26:27 PM »

...he actually had just been crismated with his wife and kids this January; former protestants they were/

Wow...sound like Yoda, you do...  Grin

Really, though, prayers for you on your inquiries.  I think your attitude is the right one in coming from Roman Catholicism, especially the following thoughts:

Quote
Some thoughts I had after my great, friendly visit: if I do convert, I wouldn't be rejecting my old faith; for me, Churches with so much in common, ecclesiastically and spiritually speaking, that trash eachother are only serving the devil's purposes. I think the devil has always won due to our separations and misrusts, but that's just me. I see becoming Orthodox as bringing me into a better spiritual, religious reality of Christ's veracity, not rejecting pagan ways. If I were Muslim, Buddhist, oagan, or etc., then that's probably how I would view it.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2005, 12:27:17 PM by Pedro » Logged

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SeanMc
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2005, 01:00:40 PM »

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I wouldn't be rejecting my old faith

That's interesting. As a Catholic (haven't been to mass since Eastertide, admittedly), I've already found myself rejecting things like indulgences as unapostolic. I've also throughly rejected the Marian apparitions; I don't see how anyone could believe that they come from God seeing that Jesus is always portrayed as some angry judge, and we'd better pray alot more rosaries so that the Blessed Virgin could stay the angry hand of her Son. Personally, I view Christ as the just judge, we deserve whatever he dishes out.

I'm still thinking about other areas of theology. Right now I'm studying Anglicanism on my blog, I've come to see that there is a relatively good cause in tradition for sola scripture, but that doctrine can only be understood in the light of tradition, rather than wholly divorced from it as Protestants have done.

I would never become Anglican, btw, especially since I live in the Diocese of New Westminster, the first one to approve "same-sex blessings"; they kind of got the ball rolling on that one in the Anglican world.
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Doubting Thomas
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2005, 02:48:05 PM »



I'm still thinking about other areas of theology. Right now I'm studying Anglicanism on my blog, I've come to see that there is a relatively good cause in tradition for sola scripture, but that doctrine can only be understood in the light of tradition, rather than wholly divorced from it as Protestants have done.
That's interesting. It seems to me that there's more of a case for prima Scriptura in the Fathers (when looking at their writings as a whole) than sola Scriptura.

Quote
I would never become Anglican, btw, especially since I live in the Diocese of New Westminster, the first one to approve "same-sex blessings"; they kind of got the ball rolling on that one in the Anglican world.
I know what you mean. The two Episcopal churches in my town are pretty liberal.
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2005, 04:15:37 PM »


That's interesting.  It seems to me that there's more of a case for prima Scriptura in the Fathers (when looking at their writings as a whole) than sola Scriptura.

Good way to put it, DT.  Check here for some patristic quotes re: the place of tradition in interpreting Scripture.
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irene
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2005, 04:49:44 PM »

Congratulations on your great experience!


Irene

PS to Pedro:  lol over your yodo joke!   
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2005, 06:53:15 PM »

if I do convert, I wouldn't be rejecting my old faith; for me, Churches with so much in common, ecclesiastically and spiritually speaking, that trash eachother are only serving the devil's purposes. [...] I see becoming Orthodox as bringing me into a better spiritual, religious reality of Christ's veracity, not rejecting pagan ways. If I were Muslim, Buddhist, oagan, or etc., then that's probably how I would view it.

Do realize that even if you were on Chrismated in to the Church, this would be a denial of Grace in your previous confession. Also your confession will include renouncing the heresies of your previous confession.
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aurelia
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2005, 08:56:41 AM »

Now now, don't scare him!   Wink

seriously, though, I'm glad you had a good experience, only dialogue and some reading will help you know if it is right for you.  Me, I clicked the first time i ever went and i knew it was right, but it was still a big thing and took a lot of thoght/preparation.  Talk to the people, and then make dsome time to talk to the priest, that's all i can say. Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2005, 11:49:07 AM »

I think anyone with a sufficiently "normal" (whatever that means...but obviously it means something to most of us) non-Orthodox background, having grown up in the west, will be able to say they had experiences prior to enterting the Church which were good, and were utlized as something to build upon - something which in hindsight, built them up (in the good way!) and brought them toward the truth.

However, I think it's also important to recognize that there is also that which must be abandoned if we're going to approach the Orthodox Church on Her own terms, and sincerely.  This is not to say that we will immediately be able to realize this (for example, we should abandon sin - but few will be able to claim that they stopped sinning upon becoming Orthodox Christians), but that should at least be something firm in our hearts, something we desire and will as best as we are able.  This would include falsehood, in particular false propositions which have become the hallmarks of schism and heresy.  The key ones are in fact included in the renunciations present in the services for formally becoming a catechumen (for example).

While some pose arguments about the "half empty" vs. "half full" glass outlooks, I think it's both and neither - you appreciate the good things (which are always from God) which led one to the house of faith (the Orthodox Church), and you reject the bad things which are due to the conniving of the evil one, and the sins of men (including ourselves.)  Also, you don't confuse the two.

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Doubting Thomas
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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2005, 12:27:59 PM »



Good way to put it, DT. Check here for some patristic quotes re: the place of tradition in interpreting Scripture.

Thanks for the link, Pedro. It was good re-reading those patristic citations (as well as the remainder of the thread which followed).

Interestingly enough, my look into Orthodoxy came on the heels of reading a series of books by a Protestant (William Webster) on the defense of Sola Scriptura. After reading some Catholic citations of some of the same Fathers quoted by Webster, I concluded the Protestant proof-texts did not tell the entire story.
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ByzantineSerb
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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2005, 06:40:16 PM »

Quote
Do realize that even if you were on Chrismated in to the Church, this would be a denial of Grace in your previous confession. Also your confession will include renouncing the heresies of your previous confession

I, as a mere individual, don't have the authority to make any Church say what I internally or spiritually pertain to. Aye, the required words would be that I reject "Romanism" (that being my own word), but I still would never reject my former faith truly, the astounding social doctrines being one of the main reasons.

I would definitely renounce the overbearing grasp of the papacy, and such doctrines that are clearly, in historical and traditional aspects, opposed to what previous Christians had believed.

Christ's blessings.


P.S. Pedro, thank you for your nice post. I appreciate it much, yessss.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2005, 06:41:20 PM by ByzantineSerb » Logged

If we live as people of God, there will be room for all nations in the Balkans and in the world. If we liken ourselves to Cain who killed his brother Abel, then the entire earth will be too small even for two people. The Lord Jesus Christ teaches us to be
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