Author Topic: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia  (Read 11028 times)

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Offline Clemente

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A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« on: November 24, 2014, 06:23:57 PM »
Is the popularisation of zoophilia a threat to the Orthodox Church’s stance on matrimony being the sanctified union of one man and one woman? This question is again being asked by many Orthodox Christians in light of this week's New York Magazine article “What It’s Like to Date a Horse.”

The popularisation of zoophilia in some of our states offers the faithful the opportunity to reflect on the long and complex history of monogamous heterosexual human-human marriage within the Orthodox Church, a history that has seen the Church changing her stances with respect to issues such as slavery and divorce.

If the Church is going to repond to the popularisation of zoophilia it seems that it should begin by considering how to minister to those man/animal couples who come and knock/paw on the doors of our parishes seeking Christ. Do we ignore them? Do we, prima facie, turn them away? Do we, under the rubric of repentance, encourage them to dismount their relationships? Or, do we offer them, as we offer anyone desiring Christ, pastoral care, love and a spiritual home/stable?

Indeed, the Church has never cantered down this untrodden path. But our history teaches us that what is new need not compromise Christ who is the “same yesterday, today and forever.” If the never changing Gospel who is Jesus Christ is to have a credible presence and role in our culture, both in cities and in the countryside, then the Church can no longer ignore or condemn questions and issues such as zoophilia that are presumed to contradict or challenge its living Tradition.

Orthodox Christians who misuse the never changing Christ to verbally and physically assault those humans or animals who practice zoophilia, whom they perceive as immoral, impose on the Church, in the words of Father Georges Florovsky, a “new and alien spirit.” The Church will have to expose and ultimately expel the “new and alien spirits” that have weakened its authentic voice to provide pastoral care to man/animal couples.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 06:52:26 PM by Clemente »

Offline hecma925

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2014, 07:05:21 PM »
Did Eric Rudolph become Orthodox?
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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2014, 07:10:16 PM »
Indeed, the Church has never cantered down this untrodden path.

LOL, nice try. 
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 07:18:41 PM »
What is going on in here?

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 07:20:16 PM »
Baaaaah, humbug.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 07:27:19 PM »
Troll rating 4/10

« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 07:29:14 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 07:46:35 PM »
Hollywood and the liberal media have been paving the way for this for generations!  America, you stand warned!

« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 07:47:37 PM by Antonious Nikolas »
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 08:22:27 PM »
Troll rating 4/10

I took it to be a satire of gay rights talk.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 08:30:38 PM »
Troll rating 4/10

I took it to be a satire of gay rights talk.

It's a poorly-executed word-substitution of Fr. Arida's blog post.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline sakura95

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2014, 08:36:15 PM »
The DSM(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) lists zoophilia as a disorder. However if the patient does not feel distressed or faced any interference with his/her lifestyle, it suggests not giving treatment. To bluntly put it, zoophilia is normal as long as you are fine with it and that it does not interfere with your daily pattern of life.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 08:36:40 PM by sakura95 »
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2014, 08:45:57 PM »
The DSM(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) lists zoophilia as a disorder. However if the patient does not feel distressed or faced any interference with his/her lifestyle, it suggests not giving treatment. To bluntly put it, zoophilia is normal as long as you are fine with it and that it does not interfere with your daily pattern of life.  ;)

Beside the point.  Like Nicholas said, this was just an ineffective, ham-fisted way of asserting that Fr. Robert Arida's perceived defense of homosexual unions (which has not been actually proven by anyone) could be applied to other perversions.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2014, 08:51:15 PM »
The DSM(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) lists zoophilia as a disorder. However if the patient does not feel distressed or faced any interference with his/her lifestyle, it suggests not giving treatment. To bluntly put it, zoophilia is normal as long as you are fine with it and that it does not interfere with your daily pattern of life.  ;)

Beside the point.  Like Nicholas said, this was just an ineffective, ham-fisted way of asserting that Fr. Robert Arida's perceived defense of homosexual unions (which has not been actually proven by anyone) could be applied to other perversions.

Why let details get in the way of having a gay old time?
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Offline sakura95

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2014, 09:05:07 PM »
The DSM(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) lists zoophilia as a disorder. However if the patient does not feel distressed or faced any interference with his/her lifestyle, it suggests not giving treatment. To bluntly put it, zoophilia is normal as long as you are fine with it and that it does not interfere with your daily pattern of life.  ;)

Beside the point.  Like Nicholas said, this was just an ineffective, ham-fisted way of asserting that Fr. Robert Arida's perceived defense of homosexual unions (which has not been actually proven by anyone) could be applied to other perversions.

I agree with you. My quote above is merely stating what the DSM have to say about zoophilia which that it is 'normal' if the individual is not distressed or face no interference in his/her daily life.

Just to be clear, I oppose zoophilia and am not cool with it for obvious reasons.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2014, 09:27:39 PM »
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I took it to be a satire of gay rights talk.

It's a poorly-executed word-substitution of Fr. Arida's blog post.

I suppose I should have read the original that everyone is talking about...

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2014, 09:29:26 PM »
It really wasn't that big of a deal, but you know how some people make mountains out of molehills...  :-\
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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2014, 09:30:52 PM »
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Offline Bob2

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2014, 10:18:59 PM »
  Like Nicholas said, this was just an ineffective, ham-fisted way of asserting that Fr. Robert Arida's perceived defense of homosexual unions (which has not been actually proven by anyone) could be applied to other perversions.


I think that people are reading issues into the OP that aren't really there. What am I and readers like me missing? You've proven nothing here either. I'll admit it isn't clear... but no where does the original poster say that this is satire and not genuine pastoral concern. This seems like a witch hunt to me ;)

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2014, 01:31:49 AM »
how is zoophilia a new challenge, when it has been around for thousands of years
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Offline biro

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2014, 01:53:36 AM »
how is zoophilia a new challenge, when it has been around for thousands of years

It isn't new. Clemente just has to find something to worry about, because without his help, we are all this close to assaulting farm animals. Or something.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2014, 01:56:29 AM »
I think my cat is flirting with me.

Keep me from temptation.
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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2014, 01:59:07 AM »
I think my cat is flirting with me.

Keep me from temptation.

As you wish.

https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

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Offline Clemente

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2014, 03:07:52 AM »
  Like Nicholas said, this was just an ineffective, ham-fisted way of asserting that Fr. Robert Arida's perceived defense of homosexual unions (which has not been actually proven by anyone) could be applied to other perversions.


I think that people are reading issues into the OP that aren't really there. What am I and readers like me missing? You've proven nothing here either. I'll admit it isn't clear... but no where does the original poster say that this is satire and not genuine pastoral concern. This seems like a witch hunt to me ;)

It's more than a witch hunt; its a lynching! Some posters here are trying to make a lot of hay out of nothing, trotting out their accusations based on rumour and inuendo. I have not seen any evidence. None.

I accept the Orthodoxchristianity.net affirmation of Orthodox belief regarding zoophilia and have stated this many times. I am just ruminating on important questions of a distinctly pastoral nature.

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2014, 03:53:49 AM »
I think that people are reading issues into the OP that aren't really there. What am I and readers like me missing? You've proven nothing here either. I'll admit it isn't clear... but no where does the original poster say that this is satire and not genuine pastoral concern. This seems like a witch hunt to me ;)

It's more than a witch hunt; its a lynching! Some posters here are trying to make a lot of hay out of nothing, trotting out their accusations based on rumour and inuendo. I have not seen any evidence. None.

I accept the Orthodoxchristianity.net affirmation of Orthodox belief regarding zoophilia and have stated this many times. I am just ruminating on important questions of a distinctly pastoral nature.

"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

Offline Arachne

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2014, 08:34:25 AM »
  Like Nicholas said, this was just an ineffective, ham-fisted way of asserting that Fr. Robert Arida's perceived defense of homosexual unions (which has not been actually proven by anyone) could be applied to other perversions.


I think that people are reading issues into the OP that aren't really there. What am I and readers like me missing? You've proven nothing here either. I'll admit it isn't clear... but no where does the original poster say that this is satire and not genuine pastoral concern. This seems like a witch hunt to me ;)

It's more than a witch hunt; its a lynching! Some posters here are trying to make a lot of hay out of nothing, trotting out their accusations based on rumour and inuendo. I have not seen any evidence. None.

I accept the Orthodoxchristianity.net affirmation of Orthodox belief regarding zoophilia and have stated this many times. I am just ruminating on important questions of a distinctly pastoral nature.

We all still agree to counter the issue of interhorse with a resounding 'Neigh!'
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Offline JamesR

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2014, 08:48:30 AM »
Well zoophilia is less sinful than homosexual sex since the latter is fornication whereas the former is technically just masturbation.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2014, 09:33:34 AM »
I think that people are reading issues into the OP that aren't really there. What am I and readers like me missing? You've proven nothing here either. I'll admit it isn't clear... but no where does the original poster say that this is satire and not genuine pastoral concern. This seems like a witch hunt to me ;)

I accept the Orthodoxchristianity.net affirmation of Orthodox belief regarding zoophilia and have stated this many times. I am just ruminating on important questions of a distinctly pastoral nature.

Subtle.



If you guys truly think Fr. Robert Arida was calling for acceptance of homosexuality, bestiality, or anything else, prove it.  Otherwise, this is all a farce.

Well zoophilia is less sinful than homosexual sex since the latter is fornication whereas the former is technically just masturbation.

And that's the thread!
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.

Offline Clemente

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2014, 03:47:07 PM »
Well zoophilia is less sinful than homosexual sex since the latter is fornication whereas the former is technically just masturbation.
Thank you. This is precisely the sort of invaluable reflection that we Orthodox desperately need in order to present the never-changing gospel of Jesus Christ to an ever-changing culture. Sadly, some Orthodox are saddled with a new and alien mindset that reigns in their ability to consider these difficult issues, particularly zoophilia. Many adult converts have been roped into Orthodoxy by the misconception that nothing changes in the Church and that the Gospel is a text. In fact, we know that the biblical text is alive; its content demands ongoing interpretation regarding controversial issues.

To meet the equine challenges of an ever-changing culture, Orthodox Christians need to critique and build upon the writings and vision of the Fathers. If the never changing Gospel is to have a credible presence and role in our culture, then the Church can no longer blithely gallop along, ignoring or condemning questions and issues such as zoophilia that are presumed to contradict or challenge its living Tradition.   

Thank you for spurring on this important dialogue.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2014, 03:53:59 PM »
Well zoophilia is less sinful than homosexual sex since the latter is fornication whereas the former is technically just masturbation.
I was tempted to ask for an explanation of this because that is not in any way true, but I feel that it is probably best that I leave that sleeping dog lie rather than poking it.  No pun intended.  ;)
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2014, 06:28:39 PM »
Well zoophilia is less sinful than homosexual sex since the latter is fornication whereas the former is technically just masturbation.
Thank you. This is precisely the sort of invaluable reflection that we Orthodox desperately need in order to present the never-changing gospel of Jesus Christ to an ever-changing culture. Sadly, some Orthodox are saddled with a new and alien mindset that reigns in their ability to consider these difficult issues, particularly zoophilia. Many adult converts have been roped into Orthodoxy by the misconception that nothing changes in the Church and that the Gospel is a text. In fact, we know that the biblical text is alive; its content demands ongoing interpretation regarding controversial issues.

To meet the equine challenges of an ever-changing culture, Orthodox Christians need to critique and build upon the writings and vision of the Fathers. If the never changing Gospel is to have a credible presence and role in our culture, then the Church can no longer blithely gallop along, ignoring or condemning questions and issues such as zoophilia that are presumed to contradict or challenge its living Tradition.   

Thank you for spurring on this important dialogue.

The rest of them are vague enough, but you overreached by using "equine." I don't believe it has any definitions beyond the one.

Considering your repeat use of such language, I imagine you've seen the recent article on this very subject published by the New York magazine, correct?

God forbid that you've actually read it.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 06:47:36 PM by Hawkeye »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2014, 06:44:18 PM »
New? What did the Greeks do when boys weren't around? They some of the pastoral imagery rather seriously . . .

Offline JamesR

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2014, 12:25:41 AM »
New? What did the Greeks do when boys weren't around? They some of the pastoral imagery rather seriously . . .

This

And you guys proclaim yourselves experts on Orthodoxy. Have you read the Canons? There are several that deal with zoophilia and sex with livestock. The Old Testament of the Bible even mentions it.

Offline Rose Sitzman

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2014, 07:14:20 AM »
how is zoophilia a new challenge, when it has been around for thousands of years

It isn't new. Clemente just has to find something to worry about, because without his help, we are all this close to assaulting farm animals. Or something.

Or maybe you're that close to assaulting farm animals. ;)

Offline Clemente

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2014, 02:48:47 AM »
I think that people are reading issues into the OP that aren't really there. What am I and readers like me missing? You've proven nothing here either. I'll admit it isn't clear... but no where does the original poster say that this is satire and not genuine pastoral concern. This seems like a witch hunt to me ;)

I accept the Orthodoxchristianity.net affirmation of Orthodox belief regarding zoophilia and have stated this many times. I am just ruminating on important questions of a distinctly pastoral nature.

Subtle.

If you guys truly think Fr. Robert Arida was calling for acceptance of homosexuality, bestiality, or anything else, prove it.  Otherwise, this is all a farce.

Are you making inferences about something that isn't in the text? Is that ever reasonable?

If you truly think the OP is referring to anything other than the topic of zoophilia, prove it! Where is the evidence?

Otherwise, your post is a farce.

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2014, 03:06:55 AM »
I think that people are reading issues into the OP that aren't really there. What am I and readers like me missing? You've proven nothing here either. I'll admit it isn't clear... but no where does the original poster say that this is satire and not genuine pastoral concern. This seems like a witch hunt to me ;)

I accept the Orthodoxchristianity.net affirmation of Orthodox belief regarding zoophilia and have stated this many times. I am just ruminating on important questions of a distinctly pastoral nature.

Subtle.

If you guys truly think Fr. Robert Arida was calling for acceptance of homosexuality, bestiality, or anything else, prove it.  Otherwise, this is all a farce.

Are you making inferences about something that isn't in the text? Is that ever reasonable?

If you truly think the OP is referring to anything other than the topic of zoophilia, prove it! Where is the evidence?

Otherwise, your post is a farce.

It's not "making inferences" when it's patently obvious what you were copying/referring to in your post.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 03:09:20 AM by Minnesotan »
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Offline Chiere

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2014, 08:12:04 AM »
how is zoophilia a new challenge, when it has been around for thousands of years

It isn't new. Clemente just has to find something to worry about, because without his help, we are all this close to assaulting farm animals. Or something.

Why are you insulting him like this? Maybe he's genuinely concerned about how the church sees this issue.
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Offline Chiere

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2014, 08:12:04 AM »
Well zoophilia is less sinful than homosexual sex since the latter is fornication whereas the former is technically just masturbation.

So you're condoning zoophilia as an alternative to homosexual sex? Interesting. That doesn't sound very Christian to me.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2014, 09:30:14 AM »
I think that people are reading issues into the OP that aren't really there. What am I and readers like me missing? You've proven nothing here either. I'll admit it isn't clear... but no where does the original poster say that this is satire and not genuine pastoral concern. This seems like a witch hunt to me ;)

I accept the Orthodoxchristianity.net affirmation of Orthodox belief regarding zoophilia and have stated this many times. I am just ruminating on important questions of a distinctly pastoral nature.

Subtle.

If you guys truly think Fr. Robert Arida was calling for acceptance of homosexuality, bestiality, or anything else, prove it.  Otherwise, this is all a farce.

Are you making inferences about something that isn't in the text? Is that ever reasonable?

If you truly think the OP is referring to anything other than the topic of zoophilia, prove it! Where is the evidence?

Otherwise, your post is a farce.

Yeah, that's what I thought.  You've got nothing.  :)
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2014, 10:33:03 AM »
I think that people are reading issues into the OP that aren't really there. What am I and readers like me missing? You've proven nothing here either. I'll admit it isn't clear... but no where does the original poster say that this is satire and not genuine pastoral concern. This seems like a witch hunt to me ;)

I accept the Orthodoxchristianity.net affirmation of Orthodox belief regarding zoophilia and have stated this many times. I am just ruminating on important questions of a distinctly pastoral nature.

Subtle.

If you guys truly think Fr. Robert Arida was calling for acceptance of homosexuality, bestiality, or anything else, prove it.  Otherwise, this is all a farce.

Are you making inferences about something that isn't in the text? Is that ever reasonable?

If you truly think the OP is referring to anything other than the topic of zoophilia, prove it! Where is the evidence?

Otherwise, your post is a farce.

It's not "making inferences" when it's patently obvious what you were copying/referring to in your post.

Nothing wrong with drawing inferences. Circumstantial evidence is just fine. Plenty of it here, and by here I don't mean this thread in isolation but in the totality of recent postings on the forum.

Offline Clemente

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2014, 12:27:13 PM »
how is zoophilia a new challenge, when it has been around for thousands of years

It isn't new. Clemente just has to find something to worry about, because without his help, we are all this close to assaulting farm animals. Or something.

Why are you insulting him like this? Maybe he's genuinely concerned about how the church sees this issue.

Thank you Chiere for bucking the trend here to actually address the issue at hand--zoophilia--rather than veering off the trail onto tangents. You may have noticed that in Orthodoxy there is a new and alien spirit that refuses even to engage in discussion regarding certain important contemporary issues, particularly those relating to sexual morality. Rather than treating such issues with thoughtful equinimity, these are too often treated contemptuously with cynical jockeylarity. The Bible is, after all, not a text, but rather is alive -a living document--and the Church has changed her positions in the past regarding other challenging issues such as divorce and slavery.

I am just trying to provide some fodder for discussion about an important contemporary challenge to the spread of the unchanging Gospel.


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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2014, 12:30:10 PM »
how is zoophilia a new challenge, when it has been around for thousands of years

It isn't new. Clemente just has to find something to worry about, because without his help, we are all this close to assaulting farm animals. Or something.

Why are you insulting him like this? Maybe he's genuinely concerned about how the church sees this issue.

Thank you Chiere for bucking the trend here to actually address the issue at hand--zoophilia--rather than veering off the trail onto tangents. You may have noticed that in Orthodoxy there is a new and alien spirit that refuses even to engage in discussion regarding certain important contemporary issues, particularly those relating to sexual morality. Rather than treating such issues with thoughtful equinimity, these are too often treated contemptuously with cynical jockeylarity. The Bible is, after all, not a text, but rather is alive -a living document--and the Church has changed her positions in the past regarding other challenging issues such as divorce and slavery.

I am just trying to provide some fodder for discussion about an important contemporary challenge to the spread of the unchanging Gospel.

Would you just quit horsing around already?

« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 12:48:29 PM by Minnesotan »
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Offline methodius

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2014, 12:45:57 PM »
zoophilia is not in fact ' just masturbation' as James R suggests; it has been known for many years, centuries in fact, as 'buggery.'
[as opposed to 'sodomy' which is of course unnatural sexual relationships with human beings.]

In spite of modern 'politically correct' attitudes.......
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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2014, 01:14:07 PM »
how is zoophilia a new challenge, when it has been around for thousands of years

It isn't new. Clemente just has to find something to worry about, because without his help, we are all this close to assaulting farm animals. Or something.

Why are you insulting him like this? Maybe he's genuinely concerned about how the church sees this issue.

I'm not insulting him.
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2014, 01:14:44 PM »
Would you just quit horsing around already?



For some reason this image reminds me of the humans-turning-into-pigs scene from the movie Willow, which I found very disturbing to watch as a kid. This one doesn't evoke the same emotions though, so I guess I shouldn't look a gif horse in the mouth.

Offline methodius

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2014, 01:21:47 PM »
Hay there! I'd he's in strawng need of a facelift, and some orthodontic attention as well....
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2014, 03:20:44 PM »
Actually, the best topic for 'A New Pastoral Challenge' if one not related to sexual matters, monasticism, fasting, the calendar, schisms or whatever - we who post here and elsewhere are part of the challenge as a real problem confronting real life Bishops, priests and parish communities is this:
 "A New Pastoral Challenge - Dealing with the impact of internet apologetics and the influence of inaccurate or conflicting information about the teachings of the Church spread via social media in the 21st century."   :(
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 03:21:19 PM by podkarpatska »

Offline Minnesotan

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2014, 06:41:48 PM »
Would you just quit horsing around already?



For some reason this image reminds me of the humans-turning-into-pigs scene from the movie Willow, which I found very disturbing to watch as a kid. This one doesn't evoke the same emotions though, so I guess I shouldn't look a gif horse in the mouth.

Oh, but we already are pigs, at least according to one biologist.
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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2014, 08:26:05 PM »
Oh, but we already are pigs, at least according to one biologist.

And many women.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 08:26:20 PM by Mor Ephrem »
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Offline methodius

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2014, 10:06:38 PM »
maybe so; but that's no reason to make an ass of yourself........
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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2014, 10:15:53 PM »
Given that we aren't supposed to marry close relatives, one might infer that the more distantly related, the more appropriate the partner becomes, so really we should be mating with other species in that they are even more distantly related to us. We must legalize marriage with trees forthwith!

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2014, 10:17:42 PM »
Given that we aren't supposed to marry close relatives, one might infer that the more distantly related, the more appropriate the partner becomes, so really we should be mating with other species in that they are even more distantly related to us. We must legalize marriage with trees forthwith!

Ouch!
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Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2014, 10:20:12 PM »
Given that we aren't supposed to marry close relatives, one might infer that the more distantly related, the more appropriate the partner becomes, so really we should be mating with other species in that they are even more distantly related to us. We must legalize marriage with trees forthwith!

Ouch!

Only if you don't use lubrication...

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2014, 10:26:22 PM »
Given that we aren't supposed to marry close relatives, one might infer that the more distantly related, the more appropriate the partner becomes, so really we should be mating with other species in that they are even more distantly related to us. We must legalize marriage with trees forthwith!

Ouch!

Only if you don't use lubrication...
Without the benefit of first hand experience, perhaps I speak out of turn, but I would imagine even lubrication would be insufficient to enable someone to satisfy their consumatory urges.
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Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2014, 10:27:47 PM »
Given that we aren't supposed to marry close relatives, one might infer that the more distantly related, the more appropriate the partner becomes, so really we should be mating with other species in that they are even more distantly related to us. We must legalize marriage with trees forthwith!

Ouch!

Only if you don't use lubrication...
Without the benefit of first hand experience, perhaps I speak out of turn, but I would imagine even lubrication would be insufficient to enable someone to satisfy their consumatory urges.

Find an old one with lots of cracks in the bark, or use a hatchet. If you're a woman, well, I think you can figure something out.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2014, 10:29:11 PM »
Given that we aren't supposed to marry close relatives, one might infer that the more distantly related, the more appropriate the partner becomes, so really we should be mating with other species in that they are even more distantly related to us. We must legalize marriage with trees forthwith!

Ouch!

Only if you don't use lubrication...
Without the benefit of first hand experience, perhaps I speak out of turn, but I would imagine even lubrication would be insufficient to enable someone to satisfy their consumatory urges.

Find an old one with lots of cracks in the bark, or use a hatchet. If you're a woman, well, I think you can figure something out.
And who said you Old Calendarists never innovate!  ;)
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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2014, 11:03:31 PM »
Given that we aren't supposed to marry close relatives, one might infer that the more distantly related, the more appropriate the partner becomes, so really we should be mating with other species in that they are even more distantly related to us. We must legalize marriage with trees forthwith!

And Evil Dead will instantly lose a great part of its appeal.
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Offline Chiere

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2014, 07:39:32 AM »
Given that we aren't supposed to marry close relatives, one might infer that the more distantly related, the more appropriate the partner becomes, so really we should be mating with other species in that they are even more distantly related to us. We must legalize marriage with trees forthwith!

Hmm..that would be interesting. At least you would know that your spouse was always in te same place.
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Offline methodius

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2014, 06:56:42 PM »
we seem to have switched from the  zoo  to the   arboretum  ......
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2014, 09:47:20 AM »
we seem to have switched from the  zoo  to the   arboretum  ......

More like the sixth grade boys room at the Middle School.

Offline methodius

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2014, 09:28:50 PM »
hmmm, an arboretum has a distinctively more agreeable smell.....
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Offline Chiere

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2014, 01:43:04 PM »
hmmm, an arboretum has a distinctively more agreeable smell.....

Yes, definitely. Much more attractive than a zoo's odor.
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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2014, 02:51:17 PM »
Dear all,

I apologize for reopening so soon something that has caused controversy.  But I need to step in on something that I was toiling through in this thread, particularly the original post.  I have wondered whether the original and subsequent posts by Clemente violated any Fair Use laws of the US.  The difficulty comes from the fact that while substitution of one or two words causes a change in the original content of Fr. Arida's text, the words still used were verbatim for more than two paragraphs, and I was wondering if too much was used.

A few things were clear:

1.  This is a parody
2.  This seems "transformative"
3.  This seems like a subtle critique of the original author, Fr. Arida
4.  There is no financial or copyright benefit from the parody made

I am no lawyer or judge, but I have tried to research the issue and asked a few people who are much more experts in this than I am, and it seems the original post is okay as it is, outweighing any idea that federal rules were broken.  However, rather than goof around with the idea that you are only talking about zoophilia and that people are going off topic, I need clarity and disclaimers.  I'm going to assume Clemente does a subtle work on in fact keeping within the confines of Fair Use, that he is intelligent enough to know that in the future, instead of giving people like me a hard time to decide whether the OP crosses the line under US law, that this is indeed a parody, and not to parade others as saying they're "off-base" or "veering off" from the subject.

So I ask in the future, anyone who wants to engage in this type of parody to please try to keep it shorter, make it somewhat clearer maybe later in the thread that this is meant as a critique and a transformative parody, and that this has nothing to do with your own personal ownership of the words you wrote, or that you do not want to take credit for these words, but only take credit for the message you intend to give.

God bless.

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Offline qawe

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Re: A New Pastoral Challenge: Zoophilia
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2014, 06:30:16 AM »
Is the popularisation of zoophilia a threat to the Orthodox Church’s stance on matrimony being the sanctified union of one man and one woman? This question is again being asked by many Orthodox Christians in light of this week's New York Magazine article “What It’s Like to Date a Horse.”

The popularisation of zoophilia in some of our states offers the faithful the opportunity to reflect on the long and complex history of monogamous heterosexual human-human marriage within the Orthodox Church, a history that has seen the Church changing her stances with respect to issues such as slavery and divorce.

If the Church is going to repond to the popularisation of zoophilia it seems that it should begin by considering how to minister to those man/animal couples who come and knock/paw on the doors of our parishes seeking Christ. Do we ignore them? Do we, prima facie, turn them away? Do we, under the rubric of repentance, encourage them to dismount their relationships? Or, do we offer them, as we offer anyone desiring Christ, pastoral care, love and a spiritual home/stable?

Indeed, the Church has never cantered down this untrodden path. But our history teaches us that what is new need not compromise Christ who is the “same yesterday, today and forever.” If the never changing Gospel who is Jesus Christ is to have a credible presence and role in our culture, both in cities and in the countryside, then the Church can no longer ignore or condemn questions and issues such as zoophilia that are presumed to contradict or challenge its living Tradition.

Orthodox Christians who misuse the never changing Christ to verbally and physically assault those humans or animals who practice zoophilia, whom they perceive as immoral, impose on the Church, in the words of Father Georges Florovsky, a “new and alien spirit.” The Church will have to expose and ultimately expel the “new and alien spirits” that have weakened its authentic voice to provide pastoral care to man/animal couples.


^POM nominee!
Controversy re Fr Robert Arida aside, this made me literally LOL!
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