Author Topic: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox  (Read 5687 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline matveimediaarts

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« on: November 21, 2014, 10:04:02 PM »
Hi!

I'm relatively new as a chrismated orthodox Christian.  I've lately become very fond of a lovely young woman who isn't orthodox.  Are there any guiding principles/rules regarding this sort of thing?  ??? Thanks!

In XC,
Matvei.

Offline Paisius

  • Ditry Pope-loving ecumenist
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Depends on the mood
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2014, 10:06:36 PM »
Is she a baptized Christian?

Offline Minnesotan

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,329
  • Milo Thatch is the ONLY Milo for me. #FreeAtlantis
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2014, 10:07:31 PM »
Well, what religion is she (or is she nonreligious)? It might be helpful to know that, since it might help gauge how open she'd be to your faith. If half her posts on Facebook are quotes from Dawkins or Hitchens, you and her probably aren't going to get along.
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline matveimediaarts

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2014, 10:38:21 PM »
Well, what religion is she (or is she nonreligious)? It might be helpful to know that, since it might help gauge how open she'd be to your faith. If half her posts on Facebook are quotes from Dawkins or Hitchens, you and her probably aren't going to get along.
I don't know yet.  It's a very new thing, so we haven't had time to chat about that kind of thing yet.  So far, we've been meeting before and after class.  If she uses facebook, it's not with her real name (doesn't show up in the search).  This week I'm inviting her to a post-liturgy brunch (and liturgy if she's interested) date, which is held in the ballroom in walking distance from the church. 

Offline Paisius

  • Ditry Pope-loving ecumenist
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Depends on the mood
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2014, 11:08:42 PM »
Well, what religion is she (or is she nonreligious)? It might be helpful to know that, since it might help gauge how open she'd be to your faith. If half her posts on Facebook are quotes from Dawkins or Hitchens, you and her probably aren't going to get along.
I don't know yet.  It's a very new thing, so we haven't had time to chat about that kind of thing yet.  So far, we've been meeting before and after class.  If she uses facebook, it's not with her real name (doesn't show up in the search).  This week I'm inviting her to a post-liturgy brunch (and liturgy if she's interested) date, which is held in the ballroom in walking distance from the church.  



Well if the letter of the law is followed Orthodox are not allowed to marry someone who is not baptized. If you did so you could not be married in the Church and could not commune. So I would say if that is the case the situation is fraught with dangers. I know of course you are not talking about marriage yet but if you are considering a possible romantic relationship you should consider this.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 11:09:42 PM by Paisius »

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,597
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Partially-overlapping
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2014, 02:36:28 AM »
Are there any guiding principles/rules regarding this sort of thing?  ??? Thanks!

Relax, have a good time, remember God.
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline matveimediaarts

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2014, 03:07:35 PM »
Thank you all for your responses. :) ~hugs~  I will be praying on it.

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,597
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Partially-overlapping
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2014, 03:15:15 PM »
Well if the letter of the law is followed Orthodox are not allowed to marry someone who is not baptized.
Sane people don't worry about their dates' marriage potential on the first date, contrary to what the sectarian protestants would have us believe.

Well, unless it's a Bride Show and not a date.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 03:16:12 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline Paisius

  • Ditry Pope-loving ecumenist
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Depends on the mood
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2014, 03:22:32 PM »
Well if the letter of the law is followed Orthodox are not allowed to marry someone who is not baptized.
Sane people don't worry about their dates' marriage potential on the first date, contrary to what the sectarian protestants would have us believe.

Well, unless it's a Bride Show and not a date.



If you're Orthodox you better think about it. Fall in love and either face the heartbreak of not being able to marry or being excommunicated from the faith you swore to adhere to. You'd have to be pretty insane to not think about it.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 03:22:58 PM by Paisius »

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,597
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Partially-overlapping
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2014, 04:49:21 PM »
If you're Orthodox you better think about it. Fall in love

It's just a date, getting to know the other person.

Besides, the greater the love, the greater the suffering, remember?

Leave the OP alone, Paisius. Let us grieve elsewhere.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 04:55:05 PM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2014, 07:57:29 PM »
Are there any guiding principles/rules regarding this sort of thing?  ??? Thanks!

Relax, have a good time, remember God.
Yup.
God bless!

Offline Rose Sitzman

  • BANNED as a duplicate account
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 07:01:58 AM »
Are there any guiding principles/rules regarding this sort of thing?  ??? Thanks!

Sounds like good advice to me.
Relax, have a good time, remember God.

Offline Anna.T

  • † Servant of God †
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,076
  • Κύριε, ἐλέησον!
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOARCH
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2014, 09:42:41 AM »
Seems the decision is up to the person who has to make it. But since the OP asked for guidelines involving relationships, it is only right to tell him.

Personally, the faith of the person I might be interested in was my first consideration. If they were anti-religious or devout in a faith not compatible with my own, I wasn't interested in opening myself to the heartache. And that is when my concern was only having to dampen or hide my own faith. Being that an Orthodox Christian must have their marriage blessed by the Church, the situation is even more important.

Some people do date for fun, with no care for where the relationship may go. Others do not.
Aγιος ὁ Θεός, Ἅγιος ἰσχυρός, Ἅγιος ἀθάνατος, ἐλέησον ἡμᾶς

Let us commit ourselves and one another and our whole life to Christ our God

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Offline Misplaced Book

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 268
  • Don't mind me......
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: EP
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2014, 02:47:32 AM »
If you're Orthodox you better think about it. Fall in love

It's just a date, getting to know the other person.

Besides, the greater the love, the greater the suffering, remember?

Leave the OP alone, Paisius. Let us grieve elsewhere.

While the first temptation is to tell Paisius to "lighten up,"  the older I get the more I see the wisdom in pausing and thinking about it.   

What is the point of dating if not to seek a wife/husband?   Relationships can get serious quicker than we expect or want, and before we know it these questions are front and center.



You asked for advice/opinions so here is mine:

Don't rush anything.   Invite her to Church,  in a natural and unforceful way.   Be her friend, and date if you will.   

BUT.....

Be attentive to how the relationship evolves.   It can be easy to overlook things when you are "in love" but that spark of excitement will go away....and then you will be left with what you two have built together by the grace of God.   Keep God front and center (don't neglect your spiritual life or the Sacred Mysteries), and things will unfold as they should.

I pray it all goes well.
"A positive thought is worth more than a vigil service on Mt. Athos." -St. Paisios the Athonite

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,665
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2014, 02:53:57 AM »
Sane people don't worry about their dates' marriage potential on the first date, contrary to what the sectarian protestants would have us believe.

Really? You're willing to call someone who chooses to live his life with less contemptuous abandon than you do insane?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,665
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2014, 02:54:59 AM »
Hi!

I'm relatively new as a chrismated orthodox Christian.  I've lately become very fond of a lovely young woman who isn't orthodox.  Are there any guiding principles/rules regarding this sort of thing?  ??? Thanks!

In XC,
Matvei.

What drew you to Orthodoxy? This was a recent event, so you remember the motivations and feelings clearly. Why is not the same drawing you to Orthodox young women?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Minnesotan

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,329
  • Milo Thatch is the ONLY Milo for me. #FreeAtlantis
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2014, 02:57:47 AM »
Hi!

I'm relatively new as a chrismated orthodox Christian.  I've lately become very fond of a lovely young woman who isn't orthodox.  Are there any guiding principles/rules regarding this sort of thing?  ??? Thanks!

In XC,
Matvei.

What drew you to Orthodoxy? This was a recent event, so you remember the motivations and feelings clearly. Why is not the same drawing you to Orthodox young women?

Maybe he fell in love with her before he became Orthodox.

Even if not, there might not be any eligible Orthodox young women in his area/that he knows. Perhaps all the ladies at his parish are yiayias. Can't really make assumptions unless you know the details of his situation.  ;D
I'm not going to be posting as much on OC.Net as before. I might stop in once in a while though. But I've come to realize that real life is more important.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,227
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Candle-lighting Cross Kisser
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2014, 03:00:51 AM »
Hi!

I'm relatively new as a chrismated orthodox Christian.  I've lately become very fond of a lovely young woman who isn't orthodox.  Are there any guiding principles/rules regarding this sort of thing?  ??? Thanks!

In XC,
Matvei.

What drew you to Orthodoxy? This was a recent event, so you remember the motivations and feelings clearly. Why is not the same drawing you to Orthodox young women?

Maybe he fell in love with her before he became Orthodox.

Even if not, there might not be any eligible Orthodox young women in his area/that he knows. Perhaps all the ladies at his parish are yiayias. Can't really make assumptions unless you know the details of his situation.  ;D

I was just about to post just about the exact same thing.  In my parish anyway, females tend to be too young, too old, or married/attached.  So for the single male convert, it would be very difficult. 
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,665
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2014, 03:04:21 AM »
So glad you chaps were able to clear this up before Matvei had the bother of posting.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Paisius

  • Ditry Pope-loving ecumenist
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,341
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Depends on the mood
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2014, 06:06:54 PM »
If you're Orthodox you better think about it. Fall in love

It's just a date, getting to know the other person.

Besides, the greater the love, the greater the suffering, remember?

Leave the OP alone, Paisius. Let us grieve elsewhere.

While the first temptation is to tell Paisius to "lighten up,"  the older I get the more I see the wisdom in pausing and thinking about it.  

What is the point of dating if not to seek a wife/husband?   Relationships can get serious quicker than we expect or want, and before we know it these questions are front and center.



You asked for advice/opinions so here is mine:

Don't rush anything.   Invite her to Church,  in a natural and unforceful way.   Be her friend, and date if you will.  

BUT.....

Be attentive to how the relationship evolves.   It can be easy to overlook things when you are "in love" but that spark of excitement will go away....and then you will be left with what you two have built together by the grace of God.   Keep God front and center (don't neglect your spiritual life or the Sacred Mysteries), and things will unfold as they should.

I pray it all goes well.




Which was really my point. When you spend time with someone of the opposite sex feelings can and do develop. If, as an Orthodox Christian you cannot marry someone who is not a baptized Christian, if you fall for the other person there are only a few options.



A) Hope they are willing to be baptized

B) You leave the Orthodox Church so you can marry them

C) Have two broken hearts


You are simply setting yourself up for trouble.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 06:07:18 PM by Paisius »

Offline matveimediaarts

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2014, 10:08:10 PM »
Thanks again, all.  Just to update-nothing came of the relationship.  We won't see each other at all till January, assuming she is attending class again.  We're remaining friends.

Offline matveimediaarts

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2014, 10:15:01 PM »
Hi!

I'm relatively new as a chrismated orthodox Christian.  I've lately become very fond of a lovely young woman who isn't orthodox.  Are there any guiding principles/rules regarding this sort of thing?  ??? Thanks!

In XC,
Matvei.

What drew you to Orthodoxy? This was a recent event, so you remember the motivations and feelings clearly. Why is not the same drawing you to Orthodox young women?

Maybe he fell in love with her before he became Orthodox.

Even if not, there might not be any eligible Orthodox young women in his area/that he knows. Perhaps all the ladies at his parish are yiayias. Can't really make assumptions unless you know the details of his situation.  ;D
I was drawn to Orthdoxy originally through my studies of Russian history, literature, and culture. (I majored in Russian for a while)  In 2009-ish, I met a Greek Orthodox fellow who more formally introduced me to it by essays he posted on another forum by various orthodox writers and historians.  There are probably eligible women in my parish.  I just don't know many yet.  I know mostly people much older or younger than me and those my age are in a relationship (that I've met so far).  I'll probably meet some eventually, as I'm active in the choir and attend fellowship hour regularly after Liturgy.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 10:17:28 PM by matveimediaarts »

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,665
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: question WRT relationships with non-orthodox
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2014, 10:30:44 PM »
Hi!

I'm relatively new as a chrismated orthodox Christian.  I've lately become very fond of a lovely young woman who isn't orthodox.  Are there any guiding principles/rules regarding this sort of thing?  ??? Thanks!

In XC,
Matvei.

What drew you to Orthodoxy? This was a recent event, so you remember the motivations and feelings clearly. Why is not the same drawing you to Orthodox young women?

Maybe he fell in love with her before he became Orthodox.

Even if not, there might not be any eligible Orthodox young women in his area/that he knows. Perhaps all the ladies at his parish are yiayias. Can't really make assumptions unless you know the details of his situation.  ;D
I was drawn to Orthdoxy originally through my studies of Russian history, literature, and culture. (I majored in Russian for a while)  In 2009-ish, I met a Greek Orthodox fellow who more formally introduced me to it by essays he posted on another forum by various orthodox writers and historians.  There are probably eligible women in my parish.  I just don't know many yet.  I know mostly people much older or younger than me and those my age are in a relationship (that I've met so far).  I'll probably meet some eventually, as I'm active in the choir and attend fellowship hour regularly after Liturgy.

Very interesting. Thanks for replying. Yes, I think you have nearly articulated a great idea here -- find Orthodox circles in which to spend your time at Orthodox things and an Orthodox marriage might very well eventuate. At any rate, asyouide from religion I, as a married man, can tell you that what provides for a stable home is really very different from what we are taught by pop society to look for in an exciting romance. There, I've said it. ;)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 10:31:33 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy