Author Topic: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority  (Read 3440 times)

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Offline TheLoveOfTheTruth

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Re: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2015, 02:22:30 AM »
From the comments I've read in favor of remaining in sin and defending continuing in it by some sort of inability I really don't see how the Orthodox Church is much better than Protestants. Both sound like great swelling words of emptiness. The doctrines might be different, but in the end it's basically the same thing. Both have the old man still alive as can be, body of sin not being done away with, the Christian living a life of failure till the end when they can finally make their death bed confession and then God takes them home and changes their desires in heaven, by the sounds of it. But while their here they'll be fornicating, molesting,lying, cheating, cursing, drinking, etc.--at least occasionally. A far cry from what the 1st and 2nd Century believers believed and did.

Ignatius said that no one making a true profession of faith sins, alluding to what the Emissary John said. If he is correct then nobody who sins is truly professing Christ. That rules out almost everyone today.

I still have work to do, but as far as I know I'm probably not doing anything that will immediately disqualify me from the Kingdom. Unless all divorce and remarriage is truly sin as some of those who take the most extreme view say. But I'm not convinced on that from my studies and those of others, so I'm not about to do something radical that will affect my family in just a drastic way in something doubtful. I've already done that with other things before and it caused problems and then later on I found out I was wrong. Though as Paul said, ultimately we can judge nothing before the time with 100% certainty. I'm certainly not living a worldly life full of lust, constantly struggling. I have some anger problems to deal with. And I also have to learn to have the love I had when I first came to Christ before I started falling away from simplicity in him. It's a lot harder to become loving after you've become a believer having become so by the cross  shedding such love abroad in your heart, and then fallen away from it, and then to come out of that, then it is to do so by coming to Christ as a full fledged heathen man. Prayer could be much better too. I fully confess. But does that mean I should stop speaking the truth in love. I've seen what goes on in the mainstream churches, and I'll continue to remain outside of the system where one actually has a chance of overcoming, and there's less risk of compromising with error and lawlessness.

I clearly seen that the Orthodox Church has watered things down like crazy. I even, by reading the early Fathers honestly can not see that if they were in this time, that they would even allow a forum like this where we can free for all. They'd be too concerned about people (heretics) coming in and sowing seeds of falsehood and leading sheep astray. That's how serious it was for them to guard themselves against false teachers.

Justin Martyr said that after baptism we have to live sinless lives.

Today the Orthodox Church sounds like the Protestants to me, the only difference being, it's according to your doctrines.

Tony
"TRUTH IS HATE TO THOSE WHO HATE THE TRUTH"

Offline biro

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Re: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2015, 04:02:02 AM »
"I clearly see that the Orthodox Church has watered things down like crazy."

You've got to be kidding me.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2015, 09:39:46 AM »
From the comments I've read in favor of remaining in sin and defending continuing in it by some sort of inability I really don't see how the Orthodox Church is much better than Protestants. Both sound like great swelling words of emptiness. The doctrines might be different, but in the end it's basically the same thing. Both have the old man still alive as can be, body of sin not being done away with, the Christian living a life of failure till the end when they can finally make their death bed confession and then God takes them home and changes their desires in heaven, by the sounds of it. But while their here they'll be fornicating, molesting,lying, cheating, cursing, drinking, etc.--at least occasionally. A far cry from what the 1st and 2nd Century believers believed and did.

Ignatius said that no one making a true profession of faith sins, alluding to what the Emissary John said. If he is correct then nobody who sins is truly professing Christ. That rules out almost everyone today.

I still have work to do, but as far as I know I'm probably not doing anything that will immediately disqualify me from the Kingdom. Unless all divorce and remarriage is truly sin as some of those who take the most extreme view say. But I'm not convinced on that from my studies and those of others, so I'm not about to do something radical that will affect my family in just a drastic way in something doubtful. I've already done that with other things before and it caused problems and then later on I found out I was wrong. Though as Paul said, ultimately we can judge nothing before the time with 100% certainty. I'm certainly not living a worldly life full of lust, constantly struggling. I have some anger problems to deal with. And I also have to learn to have the love I had when I first came to Christ before I started falling away from simplicity in him. It's a lot harder to become loving after you've become a believer having become so by the cross  shedding such love abroad in your heart, and then fallen away from it, and then to come out of that, then it is to do so by coming to Christ as a full fledged heathen man. Prayer could be much better too. I fully confess. But does that mean I should stop speaking the truth in love. I've seen what goes on in the mainstream churches, and I'll continue to remain outside of the system where one actually has a chance of overcoming, and there's less risk of compromising with error and lawlessness.

I clearly seen that the Orthodox Church has watered things down like crazy. I even, by reading the early Fathers honestly can not see that if they were in this time, that they would even allow a forum like this where we can free for all. They'd be too concerned about people (heretics) coming in and sowing seeds of falsehood and leading sheep astray. That's how serious it was for them to guard themselves against false teachers.

Justin Martyr said that after baptism we have to live sinless lives.

Today the Orthodox Church sounds like the Protestants to me, the only difference being, it's according to your doctrines.

Tony
How exactly would these early Fathers ban internet forums? I'm interested in learning how such a thing might happen.
God bless!

Offline sakura95

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Re: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2015, 09:47:02 AM »
From the comments I've read in favor of remaining in sin and defending continuing in it by some sort of inability I really don't see how the Orthodox Church is much better than Protestants. Both sound like great swelling words of emptiness. The doctrines might be different, but in the end it's basically the same thing. Both have the old man still alive as can be, body of sin not being done away with, the Christian living a life of failure till the end when they can finally make their death bed confession and then God takes them home and changes their desires in heaven, by the sounds of it. But while their here they'll be fornicating, molesting,lying, cheating, cursing, drinking, etc.--at least occasionally. A far cry from what the 1st and 2nd Century believers believed and did.

Ignatius said that no one making a true profession of faith sins, alluding to what the Emissary John said. If he is correct then nobody who sins is truly professing Christ. That rules out almost everyone today.

I still have work to do, but as far as I know I'm probably not doing anything that will immediately disqualify me from the Kingdom. Unless all divorce and remarriage is truly sin as some of those who take the most extreme view say. But I'm not convinced on that from my studies and those of others, so I'm not about to do something radical that will affect my family in just a drastic way in something doubtful. I've already done that with other things before and it caused problems and then later on I found out I was wrong. Though as Paul said, ultimately we can judge nothing before the time with 100% certainty. I'm certainly not living a worldly life full of lust, constantly struggling. I have some anger problems to deal with. And I also have to learn to have the love I had when I first came to Christ before I started falling away from simplicity in him. It's a lot harder to become loving after you've become a believer having become so by the cross  shedding such love abroad in your heart, and then fallen away from it, and then to come out of that, then it is to do so by coming to Christ as a full fledged heathen man. Prayer could be much better too. I fully confess. But does that mean I should stop speaking the truth in love. I've seen what goes on in the mainstream churches, and I'll continue to remain outside of the system where one actually has a chance of overcoming, and there's less risk of compromising with error and lawlessness.

I clearly seen that the Orthodox Church has watered things down like crazy. I even, by reading the early Fathers honestly can not see that if they were in this time, that they would even allow a forum like this where we can free for all. They'd be too concerned about people (heretics) coming in and sowing seeds of falsehood and leading sheep astray. That's how serious it was for them to guard themselves against false teachers.

Justin Martyr said that after baptism we have to live sinless lives.

Today the Orthodox Church sounds like the Protestants to me, the only difference being, it's according to your doctrines.

Tony

You never cease to amaze me. St Ignatius also extort one to submit to the Bishop. Or where ever the Bishop is, there's the "Catholic Church".

St Justin Martyr taught that the Eucharist nourishes the flesh and blood of the recipient by transforming them. The Eucharist is also the Body and Blood of Christ.

But these things, you don't believe. So you are cherry picking to say the least.
My Lord, My Lord, give my worthless soul the illumination of Wisdom in your mercy

Offline TheLoveOfTheTruth

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Re: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2015, 10:16:27 AM »
Quote from: TheTrisagion
How exactly would these early Fathers ban internet forums? I'm interested in learning how such a thing might happen.

I never said that. I was saying that if they had a forum like this they would not allow this Free-For-All from what I can tell.

Quote from: sakura95
So you are cherry picking to say the least.

I don't think so. Though I have yet to do a detailed analysis of the ANF.

Tony
"TRUTH IS HATE TO THOSE WHO HATE THE TRUTH"

Offline sakura95

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Re: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2015, 10:17:37 AM »
Quote from: TheTrisagion
How exactly would these early Fathers ban internet forums? I'm interested in learning how such a thing might happen.

I never said that. I was saying that if they had a forum like this they would not allow this Free-For-All from what I can tell.

Quote from: sakura95
So you are cherry picking to say the least.

I don't think so. Though I have yet to do a detailed analysis of the ANF.

Tony

Read them first before saying anything.
My Lord, My Lord, give my worthless soul the illumination of Wisdom in your mercy

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2015, 10:41:06 AM »
Quote from: sakura95
So you are cherry picking to say the least.

I don't think so. Though I have yet to do a detailed analysis of the ANF.

Tony
I don't know how much of the ANF you have read, but most people I have encountered that actually have read and studied them have quickly come to the conclusion of the necessity of a visible Church with apostolic succession. That pretty much narrows your choices down to Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox. I know it did for me. I used to make the same arguments that I see you making on here until I actually started reading them and realized that the Church was not just something that was made up by the evil Emperor Constantine. It existed well before he did and believed the same things that Orthodoxy believes today. After that, it is really just a question of whether you take the red pill or the blue pill. #matrix

God bless!

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2015, 09:45:05 PM »
"I clearly see that the Orthodox Church has watered things down like crazy."

You've got to be kidding me.
Would you like to offer something of substance in reply?
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Offline biro

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Re: Con't: What Scripture says about the Church and authority
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2015, 11:57:05 PM »
"I clearly see that the Orthodox Church has watered things down like crazy."

You've got to be kidding me.
Would you like to offer something of substance in reply?

Funny, that's what I think about a lot of your posts.

Would you mind not telling me what to say?
My only weakness is, well, never mind

And you'll sleep, but they'll find you

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

London is drowning, and I live by the river

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