Author Topic: The Horrible Inconsistency Of Amillennialism's Interpretation Of Revelation 20  (Read 18149 times)

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Offline LBK

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I must be honest and say that even if I saw an Orthodox priest doing some incredible miracle it probably would not convince me of Orthodoxy being the truth since all of it's teachings don't line up. Even the Anti-Christ can do great signs and wonders. Should we follow him?

So I admit my argument was not completely solid there.

But I do believe if Apostolic succession was true, then those same signs should be still apparent today. But they are not in that same caliber. And of course the Apostles did what they did by God's grace, even though they could just say, "In the name of Jesus leg grow back!" or something. It was by God's will only that they had such ability.

Tony
I think you could go one step further and say that even if you saw Jesus telling you that the Orthodox Church was the true Church, you would still not be convinced.

TheTrisagion and Podkarpatska win the thread.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline TheLoveOfTheTruth

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I must be honest and say that even if I saw an Orthodox priest doing some incredible miracle it probably would not convince me of Orthodoxy being the truth since all of it's teachings don't line up. Even the Anti-Christ can do great signs and wonders. Should we follow him?

So I admit my argument was not completely solid there.

But I do believe if Apostolic succession was true, then those same signs should be still apparent today. But they are not in that same caliber. And of course the Apostles did what they did by God's grace, even though they could just say, "In the name of Jesus leg grow back!" or something. It was by God's will only that they had such ability.

Tony
I think you could go one step further and say that even if you saw Jesus telling you that the Orthodox Church was the true Church, you would still not be convinced.

Well Trisagion there are a lot of false Jesuses out there, so you may be right. It does say if people claim he's here and there not to go after them because his coming will be on the clouds of heaven with great glory. That said I might have to pray about that and wait on God. That's quite the experience. We know that it could happen because Jesus stood by Paul in prison. So it would not be wise to just disregard it either. But there has been a lot of falsehoods perpetrated in the name of miracles that just aren't right. All the spirits must be tested, especially in our time when it's just so bad.

Tony
"TRUTH IS HATE TO THOSE WHO HATE THE TRUTH"

Offline TheTrisagion

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I must be honest and say that even if I saw an Orthodox priest doing some incredible miracle it probably would not convince me of Orthodoxy being the truth since all of it's teachings don't line up. Even the Anti-Christ can do great signs and wonders. Should we follow him?

So I admit my argument was not completely solid there.

But I do believe if Apostolic succession was true, then those same signs should be still apparent today. But they are not in that same caliber. And of course the Apostles did what they did by God's grace, even though they could just say, "In the name of Jesus leg grow back!" or something. It was by God's will only that they had such ability.

Tony
I think you could go one step further and say that even if you saw Jesus telling you that the Orthodox Church was the true Church, you would still not be convinced.

Well Trisagion there are a lot of false Jesuses out there, so you may be right. It does say if people claim he's here and there not to go after them because his coming will be on the clouds of heaven with great glory. That said I might have to pray about that and wait on God. That's quite the experience. We know that it could happen because Jesus stood by Paul in prison. So it would not be wise to just disregard it either. But there has been a lot of falsehoods perpetrated in the name of miracles that just aren't right. All the spirits must be tested, especially in our time when it's just so bad.

Tony
I don't disagree with much of what you say, but then, I do not find testing spirits against my own personal interpretation to be a particularly effective manner of determining truth given how easy self-deceit can be.
God bless!

Offline Inquirer

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I must be honest and say that even if I saw an Orthodox priest doing some incredible miracle it probably would not convince me of Orthodoxy being the truth since all of it's teachings don't line up. Even the Anti-Christ can do great signs and wonders. Should we follow him?

So I admit my argument was not completely solid there.

But I do believe if Apostolic succession was true, then those same signs should be still apparent today. But they are not in that same caliber. And of course the Apostles did what they did by God's grace, even though they could just say, "In the name of Jesus leg grow back!" or something. It was by God's will only that they had such ability.

Tony
I think you could go one step further and say that even if you saw Jesus telling you that the Orthodox Church was the true Church, you would still not be convinced.

Well Trisagion there are a lot of false Jesuses out there, so you may be right. It does say if people claim he's here and there not to go after them because his coming will be on the clouds of heaven with great glory. That said I might have to pray about that and wait on God. That's quite the experience. We know that it could happen because Jesus stood by Paul in prison. So it would not be wise to just disregard it either. But there has been a lot of falsehoods perpetrated in the name of miracles that just aren't right. All the spirits must be tested, especially in our time when it's just so bad.

Tony

Gal 1:8 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."

But see, the difficulty here is that the Gospel that "they" (Paul & company) preached was handed on by word of mouth and tradition, not by dropping a Bible in their midst and expecting them to figure it out by themselves. This is why Apostolic Succession is a necessary authority; even Satan can quote Scripture to his own ends, and probably much more cleverly than we can.
"[The Sacred Congregation of Rites'] decisions are made by a crowd of dirty little Monsignori at Rome in utter ignorance of the meaning or reason of anything. To the historian their decisions are simply disgusting nonsense, that people of my kind want simply to ignore." -- Fr. Adrian Fortescue

Offline Luke

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I'm curious, how many prophecies were clear before the event that they predict came to realization? I can't think of any . . ."
Very true.  Even with hindsight, there is disagreement with some of them.  I have read two major views of the four beasts of Daniel 7 as to which four kingdoms the beasts represent:
1.  Babylon, Media/Persia, Greece, and Rome.
2.  Babylon, Media, Persia, and Greece.
     I favor the former, but I am fine with anyone who favors the latter.

Offline podkarpatska

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I must be honest and say that even if I saw an Orthodox priest doing some incredible miracle it probably would not convince me of Orthodoxy being the truth since all of it's teachings don't line up. Even the Anti-Christ can do great signs and wonders. Should we follow him?

So I admit my argument was not completely solid there.

But I do believe if Apostolic succession was true, then those same signs should be still apparent today. But they are not in that same caliber. And of course the Apostles did what they did by God's grace, even though they could just say, "In the name of Jesus leg grow back!" or something. It was by God's will only that they had such ability.

Tony
I think you could go one step further and say that even if you saw Jesus telling you that the Orthodox Church was the true Church, you would still not be convinced.

Well Trisagion there are a lot of false Jesuses out there, so you may be right. It does say if people claim he's here and there not to go after them because his coming will be on the clouds of heaven with great glory. That said I might have to pray about that and wait on God. That's quite the experience. We know that it could happen because Jesus stood by Paul in prison. So it would not be wise to just disregard it either. But there has been a lot of falsehoods perpetrated in the name of miracles that just aren't right. All the spirits must be tested, especially in our time when it's just so bad.

Tony

Gal 1:8 - "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."

But see, the difficulty here is that the Gospel that "they" (Paul & company) preached was handed on by word of mouth and tradition, not by dropping a Bible in their midst and expecting them to figure it out by themselves. This is why Apostolic Succession is a necessary authority; even Satan can quote Scripture to his own ends, and probably much more cleverly than we can.

+1

Offline Skydive

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The DOC shows the internal inconsistencies of the hermeneutic of Amillennialism on Rev. 20.

It exposes things like this:

"[20:5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection."--Revelation KJV

This makes absolutely no sense if the first resurrection is being born again at baptism and is totally inconsistent with itself. And to ignore this and go with this interpretation anyway because of some higher knowledge of the truth that you supposedly have, but can't actually show its logical consistency is platonic gnostic handling of the written Word. Then it is just as valid to interpret the whole OT allegorically and deny its literal historic truth and the same goes with the crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection of a literal Messiah.

But there's really no point in reading the DOC if you are not open to the Orthodox Church organization being wrong about this, unless of course you want to do a refutation.

Tony

I can easily refute it with my interpretation, not sure if it is the interpretation of the Church though..

The "1000 years" is the momento of the Church/Christianity/Christ/God that those who are outside of it do not live it, nor experience it. Common sense. Those who reject the Church/Christianity/Christ/God etc do not experience it. And those who are not of the Church/Christianity/Christ/God have a different timing/tempo.

Timing in the bible can also be interpreted as aeons, ages, etc... Some fathers used this hermeneutics when applied to Genesis and not only. As "one day to God is as a thousand of years and a thousand of years as a day". The Orthodox say God is outside time, and that he transcends time and that all moments of time are instant to Him. 1000 of years is like yesterday to God (the future like the past). Einstein said "time is relative". So time in Divine economy and eternity is irrelevant. The time of divinity is eternity. And the Kingdom of Jesus has no end, the reference in the Bible is that the Holy Spirit will be always in the world. Jesus's rule is not interrupted. He does not just rule for a certain time, than he stops ruling and lets the devil rule, no. This timing I think it was used in reference to us. I think it is in our hearts that either Christ rules or the devil, or where one rules over the other and both cannot rule at the same time (I think one cannot serve two masters might have something to do with it).