Author Topic: Losing faith or just a trial ?  (Read 3554 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline littlepilgrim64

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 956
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOA
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2014, 11:00:06 PM »
Lord, have mercy.

Raylight

  • Guest
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2014, 09:20:51 AM »
Guys, I'm going to need to tell you my thoughts and hopefully some of you might help me. There are already 2 members I PM them and they were so much help, I'm thankful to them and the fact that they took some of their time to help me.

The whole crisis started as a very small thing, then gradually it became deeper and much stronger. And here I'm.

The main problem I face when I look at Christianity, is Christians themselves, day after day I get more and more tired to hearing about this Bishop/Cardinal/Patriarch said this about gays, atheists, seculars, and in the case of Eastern Orthodoxy, a Patriarch or Bishop said this or that about the West and how awful it is and how corrupted it is ( as if Eastern Europe is not corrupted and full of ugly things, as if Russia doesn't have one of the highest rates of Abortion cases ).


I'm tired of Catholics attacking Orthodox and Protestants. Protestants attacking Orthodox and Catholics. Orthodox attacking Protestants and Catholic. I used to be one of those but then I just got sick of it and wondered what on earth am I doing ?!?!

I'm tired of Christians mocking other Christians just because their mass/liturgy is different. The Catholic see that Latin Mass is the BEST. Orthodox see the Byzantine Liturgy as the best and must beautiful thing and that the Catholic Mass is so clown stuff and not original, and the Protestant worship is just meaningless. The Protestant see Catholic and Orthodox mass/liturgy as idolatry and not real worship.

Then as if I need this, comes the Catholic Family Synod, and just because , just because it changed its tone regarding Divorced and remarried people, and regarding homosexuals. Many Christians got so mad, and many Catholics showed their real ugly side that is full of hate and anger. That SHOCKED. then I read a thread here on the news section regarding the synod, and oh boy, many members just got angry at the whole thing, one even asked for killing gays, another said the Catholic Church is trying to please people, another was so happy that now many Catholics will go to Orthodoxy!!! They didn't know that the people who they want the Church to keep attacking are real people, real human beings with their own lives and problems. Didn't know or tried to ignore that gays are facing the most ugly discrimination so far. The Church didn't even say homosexuality is not a sin, and didn't say same-sex marriage is okay, it just became closer and tried to reach out to people that the Church itself and Christians themselves have killed many of them in the past and still today. That made me wonder if this is what Christianity is really about, it is about hating people, discriminating against, being to close-minded and so stuck in the old ways.


Then after all that, I got scared of Christianity, I really did, it looked different to me, so my refuge was to stay away from it and maybe can change with time, but it didn't, it got worse. Then I became more and more attached to materialism, to this world, to the secular lifestyle. I even became to a silly point that I see NYC as the sample of the beauty of the secular life, where Sweden, Norway, Finland and Denmark are also great examples of how life would be because of secularism. Then I looked at Russia, Ukraine, parts of Africa and with it saw a different type of life, not a nice one, and that to me represented the Christian lifestyle. It doesn't make sense to me because this is kind of superficial, nevertheless, it holds some truth in it.

Yet, I still love Christ. If I saw Him face to face, I would kiss his hands and feet and follow Him no matter what. But sadly, I only see Christians, and many of them are not that nice.


If you noticed, I don't have that much problem with the Bible, I don't have a problem with Christ and God. But I have a problem with some Christians, and because of that I'm kinda of throwing the baby with the bathwater.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 09:24:39 AM by Raylight »

Raylight

  • Guest
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2014, 09:28:25 AM »
I need you to keep praying for me guys. I really need to do something to get out of this mess. The more days passed, the harder it is to even start praying . I need to take a step and just get myself out of this situation.

If it's more than just trouble with prayer and veering into possible depression, please talk with someone about it; a trusted friend, a therapist, or a doctor.

I thought that I might have or going to have depression. My relationship with God is dying, my relationship with my family is not good. But my relationship with my friends is good, and my passion for my college study is so alive, even though I'm worried that they both might get involved in the crisis and that is why I'm making sure that will not happen, because if that happen, then I might get depression. What is so shocking to me is how fast my faith crisis took place and follows it my relationship with the family, I just didn't see that coming at all. I knew I will have some troubles in my faith during my lifetime BUT never thought it will be like this where I can't feel God anymore, where I can't talk to Him, where I'm attracted to a secular lifestyle. Before this happen, my life revolved around my faith, my values and the way I look at everything was shaped by my faith, now I'm starting to take another way and my life is revolved around my study, my goals in this life. Nevertheless, I love Christ, I love him so so much.

This crises that I'm having right now will end me up to one of two options : 1) Leaving Christianity.  2) Stay Christian but for sure will not be conservative like I used to, I will be a Liberal Christian who doesn't shape all his views based on his Christianity even if that was something as serious as Abortion, and that in itself says the level of my faith will remain low. Ugh.

But I hope God will have a third option and that I will become much stronger in my relationship with Him. Even though I don't see how that will happen based on what is going on right now.

Raylight, I have been where you are now. I know others on this forum have been there too. There is nothing that anyone can say that can convince you otherwise; it isn't words that change people. You have your whole life ahead of you to make the decisions that affect how your life will turn out.  The most important thing in the world though, is to think, at the end of my life, when I look back, what do I want it to look like? You are the only person who can answer the question and you are the only person who can make it happen. As I look at the people I admire the most and want to be the most like, it isn't the richest people or the smartest people, it isn't the people who lived their life going with the current, it isn't the people who were pompous and bombastic about their beliefs. It is people like my grandmother, who was a quiet soft spoken woman, who struggled with depression every day of her life, but every day that she lived with us, she went to her room after breakfast and prayed and read her Bible for the rest of the morning. She wasn't educated passed the 8th grade, but she could give out the best advice. She was real, she had lived a hard farm life. She had self control like no one I've ever seen. She believed in duty and respect and loyalty. When I was a young punk kid, I would make fun of her and lock her out of the house just to harass her. She would stand on the front porch patiently waiting for me to unlock the door. She never yelled or threatened. She lived her life and when she died, there were tons of people at her funeral that I never even knew.  At the end of my life, I want to look back and say that I lived up something close her value system. She wasn't Orthodox, but she was the best Christian I have ever met. It was her and people like her that make the world a good place. There are heroes in the world, and they aren't in the obvious places.  At the end, you want to be able to say, "I am proud of my life's work", not "I did what interested me at the time".


I wish if I can see more like her. But that seems to be rare or very unknown.

I've always thought I will spend the rest of my life with Christ. I don't want to come back to Him when I become 60 or 70. I already regret that fact that I didn't spend enough time of my life knowing Him, how would I feel if I waste more than my lifetime away from Him.

Thank you for sharing with me this :)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 09:31:36 AM by Raylight »

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2014, 09:46:02 AM »
My grandmother is no longer with me, but it is one of the reasons that the Church holds the saints so dear. Even when we might be surrounded physically with those who do not exhibit godly examples to us, we can always look to the saints and see role models. There are many good people out there still, but they are often the quiet ones.  They often are not the ones leading the choir or on the parish council. They are the old woman sitting off to the side who remain in prayer when everyone goes off to coffee hour, they are the man who goes to work and does his job and demonstrates love to those around him even if he is the butt of jokes for praying at lunch. They are the people who do acts of mercy that no one ever knows about. They are cheerful even in adversity.  They are out there, but they are not easy to find. The best places to look for them are at places like soup kitchens or prisons.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 09:48:58 AM by TheTrisagion »
God bless!

Offline charbelkaleab

  • Most High Imperial Prince
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 417
  • St John of Shanghai and San Francisco pray for us!
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2014, 11:06:53 AM »
Every bodys faith is tried. Lord have mercy

Raylight

  • Guest
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2014, 03:56:25 PM »
An update. I was reading a topic here and it was very interesting, it was also very argumentative and related to whether Fine Tuning is evidence for God. Some members said yes, others said no and those in between and while I was reading all that I got so overwhelmed, so I screamed ( I do get angry very easily btw ) , I really did, I got so angry that I screamed and asked God to do something. Then I went and lay down and I decided to just man it up and pray, and I did, I did pray. I did tell God everything in my mind, I told Him what I feel, what I think, I asked why, I asked how and also I asked for forgiveness.

This is a good start, I now know I can pray, regardless of the doubts I have, I still can do it, just put the doubts aside for a while and talk to God. I just left everything in His hands and I hope so much that He will do something.

I didn't want to share this with you, but because I shared with you the bad stuff that are going on with me, I feel I should also share with you the good.

Thank you guys, real thank you. Please keep praying for me, keep ask God to give me the simple faith, the faith of the elders.

Offline eddybear

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,097
  • Faith: Orthodox, awaiting Chrismation
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Sourozh
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #51 on: October 29, 2014, 04:18:37 PM »
An update. I was reading a topic here and it was very interesting, it was also very argumentative and related to whether Fine Tuning is evidence for God. Some members said yes, others said no and those in between and while I was reading all that I got so overwhelmed, so I screamed ( I do get angry very easily btw ) , I really did, I got so angry that I screamed and asked God to do something. Then I went and lay down and I decided to just man it up and pray, and I did, I did pray. I did tell God everything in my mind, I told Him what I feel, what I think, I asked why, I asked how and also I asked for forgiveness.

This is a good start, I now know I can pray, regardless of the doubts I have, I still can do it, just put the doubts aside for a while and talk to God. I just left everything in His hands and I hope so much that He will do something.

I didn't want to share this with you, but because I shared with you the bad stuff that are going on with me, I feel I should also share with you the good.

Thank you guys, real thank you. Please keep praying for me, keep ask God to give me the simple faith, the faith of the elders.
Like :)

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2014, 09:04:29 PM »
I'm glad to hear you are doing better. Remember that many of the arguments here are nothing more than intellectual banter. It may fly back and forth fierce and furious, but that is not because we dislike each other or are being mean, argumentation and questioning is a way of learning. It is not uncommon for me to be arguing something on here and someone responds with an insightful post that makes me think, huh, I never thought of it that way. Don't be discouraged, we are praying for you.  :)
God bless!

Offline Opus118

  • Site Supporter
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,520
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2014, 12:11:22 AM »
An update. I was reading a topic here and it was very interesting, it was also very argumentative and related to whether Fine Tuning is evidence for God. Some members said yes, others said no and those in between and while I was reading all that I got so overwhelmed, so I screamed ( I do get angry very easily btw ) , I really did, I got so angry that I screamed and asked God to do something. Then I went and lay down and I decided to just man it up and pray, and I did, I did pray. I did tell God everything in my mind, I told Him what I feel, what I think, I asked why, I asked how and also I asked for forgiveness.

This is a good start, I now know I can pray, regardless of the doubts I have, I still can do it, just put the doubts aside for a while and talk to God. I just left everything in His hands and I hope so much that He will do something.

I didn't want to share this with you, but because I shared with you the bad stuff that are going on with me, I feel I should also share with you the good.

Thank you guys, real thank you. Please keep praying for me, keep ask God to give me the simple faith, the faith of the elders.

While I largely agree with your post 46, you are overreacting to the fine tuning thread. This was the sort of response that john_mo wanted. That is why it  is in the free for all section. He wanted criticism and he got it and he defended his position the best he could at the time and he will be more able to defend is position because of it.

I am not a fan of fine tuning because it is hard for a person, convinced there is no God and who is not knowledgeable in statistics/math, to trust the arguments of his adversary. I confess that I took a somewhat ironic/absurdist position (that was perhaps justifiably ignored) which posited that an unbiased atheistic position ultimately leads to the inevitability of God. I also thought through the created/uncreated problem but it never came up.
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Raylight

  • Guest
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #54 on: October 30, 2014, 08:43:32 AM »
I do think I over reacted, but it is a good thing because of it I had the courage to start praying. Because of it I realized that I can't rely on arguments and all that to help me get closer to God. I realized that I need to help myself getting closer.

Offline Skydive

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 656
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2014, 05:36:03 PM »
The last time I prayed was weeks ago. I feel that my faith is getting colder and colder with time. The love that I had is no more. Things I opposed before because of my Christian faith, now I support regardless of whether it is acceptable or not for a Christian to support. I'm getting attached to this life and the material things in it. And I feel sad because of all the above and I feel kind of guilty and as if I'm leaving something behind.  

Some say it is losing faith, others say it is just a trial.

What is going on and what I can do about it ?

You're just out of the closet 99.99% of people just pretend to be Christians, they really aren't and deep down is not what they believe and agree. Few of them really are certified Christians. The majority of people are Christian some sort of syncretic agonistical. Everybody can choose to lie or just embrace the truth and be honest with whom they are and what it is. Totally NOT what is going on.

Raylight

  • Guest
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2014, 12:16:03 PM »
The last time I prayed was weeks ago. I feel that my faith is getting colder and colder with time. The love that I had is no more. Things I opposed before because of my Christian faith, now I support regardless of whether it is acceptable or not for a Christian to support. I'm getting attached to this life and the material things in it. And I feel sad because of all the above and I feel kind of guilty and as if I'm leaving something behind.  

Some say it is losing faith, others say it is just a trial.

What is going on and what I can do about it ?

You're just out of the closet 99.99% of people just pretend to be Christians, they really aren't and deep down is not what they believe and agree. Few of them really are certified Christians. The majority of people are Christian some sort of syncretic agonistical. Everybody can choose to lie or just embrace the truth and be honest with whom they are and what it is. Totally NOT what is going on.


99.99%!! Are you even serious ?! Where did you get this number from ? and let me guess, you are not one of the 99.99%, right ?  And you talked it about " certified Christians ", where do I get the certification please ? From the ministry of Christian services ?

I'm a Christian. I had and still have little bit of crisis, and it is getting better.

If you really know my story, you would see that I have no reason to become Christian other than really believing in Christ.

PS: I wasn't born Christian. I didn't born in a country where Christians are the majority, and the family are not Christians.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 12:28:53 PM by Raylight »

Raylight

  • Guest
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2014, 12:25:04 PM »
Things for me now are getting better. I still have part of the crisis. But lately I started praying, I kept it simple, but today I started using some Orthodox prayers, I prayed them slowly, tried to be calm and understand them and really mean them. It was very good, very refreshing. I loved how the prayers are kinda of reading the Bible itself. I have another book of Orthodox prayers/praises too where it mentions Moses, David, Solomon, and other Biblical figures. It also get the Bible stories in the middle of the prayers and how it relates it to me.

I'm planning on keeping this and then use other Eastern Orthodox ways of worship and pray. I will take everything gradually from now on.

Please don't stop praying for me. I'm always in need for your prayers.

Offline eddybear

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,097
  • Faith: Orthodox, awaiting Chrismation
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Sourozh
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2014, 02:18:25 PM »
The last time I prayed was weeks ago. I feel that my faith is getting colder and colder with time. The love that I had is no more. Things I opposed before because of my Christian faith, now I support regardless of whether it is acceptable or not for a Christian to support. I'm getting attached to this life and the material things in it. And I feel sad because of all the above and I feel kind of guilty and as if I'm leaving something behind.  

Some say it is losing faith, others say it is just a trial.

What is going on and what I can do about it ?

You're just out of the closet 99.99% of people just pretend to be Christians, they really aren't and deep down is not what they believe and agree. Few of them really are certified Christians. The majority of people are Christian some sort of syncretic agonistical. Everybody can choose to lie or just embrace the truth and be honest with whom they are and what it is. Totally NOT what is going on.


99.99%!! Are you even serious ?! Where did you get this number from ? and let me guess, you are not one of the 99.99%, right ?  And you talked it about " certified Christians ", where do I get the certification please ? From the ministry of Christian services ?

I'm a Christian. I had and still have little bit of crisis, and it is getting better.

If you really know my story, you would see that I have no reason to become Christian other than really believing in Christ.

PS: I wasn't born Christian. I didn't born in a country where Christians are the majority, and the family are not Christians.

The best thing to do with wild, obviously incorrect, assertions is just to ignore them. Don't let them get to you. Glad to hear that things are starting to look up. I've also found written prayers can be helpful. Still praying for you.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 02:19:54 PM by eddybear »

Offline jewish voice

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 886
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Still dont know yet
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2014, 03:30:09 PM »
You sound as if you suffer from the same thing as my dad. Stop looking at people. People are not perfect and just because someone disagrees or eeven disagrees with you don't mean all is lost. Church is for the sick it's a hospital for getting better. I feel once you start looking at it that way might get better for you I pray.

I suffer/ struggle with smoking someone else might suffer from drinking . Point is God will always test our love of him

Offline mabsoota

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,859
  • Kyrie eleison
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox (Coptic)
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2014, 04:14:34 PM »
may God guide you and comfort you.
i also pray for skydive as i wonder if he / she is writing such an extreme post because of depression.
may God give you both peace and courage.

most Christians i know truly believe what they say.
some live such a kind and true life that it is easy to be touched by God's grace just by being with them.
others have more struggles but try hard to stay close to God (i am in this group).
they all have a lot to teach us, if we are ready to learn and to pray for them.

Offline Skydive

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 656
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2014, 04:19:43 AM »
The last time I prayed was weeks ago. I feel that my faith is getting colder and colder with time. The love that I had is no more. Things I opposed before because of my Christian faith, now I support regardless of whether it is acceptable or not for a Christian to support. I'm getting attached to this life and the material things in it. And I feel sad because of all the above and I feel kind of guilty and as if I'm leaving something behind.  

Some say it is losing faith, others say it is just a trial.

What is going on and what I can do about it ?

You're just out of the closet 99.99% of people just pretend to be Christians, they really aren't and deep down is not what they believe and agree. Few of them really are certified Christians. The majority of people are Christian some sort of syncretic agonistical. Everybody can choose to lie or just embrace the truth and be honest with whom they are and what it is. Totally NOT what is going on.


99.99%!! Are you even serious ?! Where did you get this number from ? and let me guess, you are not one of the 99.99%, right ?  And you talked it about " certified Christians ", where do I get the certification please ? From the ministry of Christian services ?

I'm a Christian. I had and still have little bit of crisis, and it is getting better.

If you really know my story, you would see that I have no reason to become Christian other than really believing in Christ.

PS: I wasn't born Christian. I didn't born in a country where Christians are the majority, and the family are not Christians.


No, I am one of those. Mostly anyone is. No church, your heart certifies. :) When you have no doubt at all and you believe everything you believe in... then you are part of that 1%. Mostly no one does.

As I see it you don't know what to believe. You are like a ship in the wind... And like the majority you are syncretist..

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,613
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: In Hell I'll be in good company
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2014, 12:11:39 PM »

Yet, I still love Christ. If I saw Him face to face, I would kiss his hands and feet and follow Him no matter what.

What would you do if you saw Him now?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Raylight

  • Guest
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2014, 04:50:05 PM »

Yet, I still love Christ. If I saw Him face to face, I would kiss his hands and feet and follow Him no matter what.

What would you do if you saw Him now?

I would still kiss him and thank him for his courage to stand for what he believes in, for standing for the poor and the marginalized people of his time. But that is all.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,135
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Losing faith or just a trial ?
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2014, 06:41:23 PM »

Yet, I still love Christ. If I saw Him face to face, I would kiss his hands and feet and follow Him no matter what.

What would you do if you saw Him now?

I would still kiss him and thank him for his courage to stand for what he believes in, for standing for the poor and the marginalized people of his time. But that is all.

You'd in essence tell him, "You aren't the one who alone came from the heavens and having seen the Father now reveal him to man; you are not the saver of the world; you are not the son of God"?
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy