Topic: Thoughts on the Newsweek article

[cizinec]

[And further guys 'n gals, I'm not 'hiiting' on anybody here. We're all "sheeple" to be used as pawns for the Money'd, 'Faceless' ones.]

I agree and disagree.  Each individual is still responsible for their actions, regardless.  Don't be fooled.  There are plenty of rich Saudis who want to keep up tesions in the middle east and they use their own religion to do it.  It's not a bunch of rich, faceless Westerners.  There are also people who want power, not money, and they'll use their religion to get it.  That includes Islam.  There are also religous zealots, fueled by Satan who raise an army of evil to destroy as much of Christ's church as they can.  These are the Islamo-fascists.  They are the most powerful legacy of Adolf Hitler.  Go to Pristinia and see the new monument to the Skanderberg SS Division, the dedication of which will no doubt be attended by UN and NATO representatives. 

http://www.serbianna.com/press/009.shtml

The memorial tomb dedicated to the heroes and victims of Nazism during World War II in Pristina has been destroyed. The plates bearing the names of fallen fighters (Serbs, Albanians, Turks and Jews) have been removed and destroyed, and the monument is today covered with graffiti celebrating the Kosovo Liberation Army.

It's too easy to blame the World Bank or "rich people."  It takes away from the fact that we all have free will and our own crosses to carry.

I love to hear the local Pacifica reporters drone on and on about how all world politics is about oil . . . and then get in their big vans and drive all over the countryside. 

[Nacho]

I love to hear the local Pacifica reporters drone on and on about how all world politics is about oil . . . and then get in their big vans and drive all over the countryside.

Yea, lol.......It's like the same idiot protestors I see down here at the Capitol all the time that yell about the evils of oil & then I see some of them leave in SUV's. I would like to tell one of these 'earthy green' type people that if it wasn't for oil you would have no gas to make it to your protest.

In regards to the Newsweek fiasco, the thought occured to me that it would be impossible to flush a book down a toilet. I must be missing something here because that doesn't sound plausable to me at all unless they ripped out a few pages at a time. 

[Kolya]

Just my observations as 'observer" - I get a nagging feeling that we are looking in the wrong direction. Yes Islam is a threat but not THE threat.

Ahh! Someone else who can see through the 'smokescreen'! 

[Vasilisa]

Christos voskresye!!
Dear brothers and sisters,
Shakespeare said “All the worlds a stage and all the men and women merely players GǪ “
Many things he said are right so if this world is a stage, and these powers, religious, and political, are players, as I might say, then all are playing for their own reasons.  Power, money, reputations, or perhaps simply spite? To fly against everything the rest of the stage respects?  Could not this be what many of these fundamentalists are doing? Spite cause pain, yes. Minds ruled by spite have no cares for as much pain they cause to as many people. Just a thought.  Otherwise so much is without sense.

[MBZ]

Hi all!

It's Saturday night here. Shabbat (i.e. the Sabbath) is out. Da Boyz are asleep. DW is on the couch watching the Eurovision Song Contest. The hamster is doing her hamster thing & I am surfing through cyberspace.

Cizinec, you posted:

Each individual is still responsible for their actions, regardless. Don't be fooled. There are plenty of rich Saudis who want to keep up tesions in the middle east and they use their own religion to do it. It's not a bunch of rich, faceless Westerners. There are also people who want power, not money, and they'll use their religion to get it. That includes Islam...It's too easy to blame the World Bank or "rich people." It takes away from the fact that we all have free will and our own crosses to carry.

Well said!

I love to hear the local Pacifica reporters...

 

Kolya, you posted:

Thanks for popping by.

You're welcome!

Your input is always appreciated.

Thankee!

Give me a call when you're passing by this way again in transit to CT, and we'll put some meat on the coals and pop a few cans. What say you?

Will do (as long as the meat is kosher & the grid on the grill is new)!

Actually, we might be coming to Dromie (from darom, the Hebrew word for "south", the local euphemism for South Africa) next year. DW has a good friend in Jo'burg whose son will be having a bar mitzvah (http://www.jewfaq.org/barmitz.htm) the week before Passover.

I find that of all the SA lagers, I like Windhoek Lager :brew: from Namibia best.

In Genesis 16:11-12, God tells Hagar, who is pregnant with Ishmael:

Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; and you shall call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has heard your affliction. And he shall be a wild donkey of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren.

I often wonder about how this may apply to Ishmael's descendants, i.e. the Arabs.

Be well!

MBZ

[yBeayf]

I love to hear the local Pacifica reporters

Pacifica is a US public radio network, somewhat similar to NPR, though left of (US) centre, as opposed to NPR, which is slightly right of centre.

[Matthew777]

Personally, I'd do a lot more to the Koran than just flush it down a toilet. This story is really only making such big of news because of the reaction in the Muslim world.

[cizinec]

NPR is slightly right of center?  Pacifica plays Cuban radio here in Houston daily.  I'd call that a tad further than "left of center."  I love to listen to their "news" programming, if only for a great laugh. 

Since we're quoting plays as if it proves something, how about a bit from James Goldman's The Lion in Winter:

"How clear we make it.  Oh, my piglets, we're the origins of war.  Not history's forces nor the times nor justice nor the lack of it nor causes nor religions nor ideas nor kinds of government nor any other thing.  We are the killers; we breed war.  We carry it, like syphilis, inside.  Dead bodies rot in field and stream because the living ones are rotten."

Act One, Scene Five, Eleanor speaking to her children.  I've always loved that little speech, primarily because it takes away the simple ability to find that all the world's ills are caused by some "others" who can be conveniently blamed for our own sicknesses.

[Αριστοκλής]

NPR - the Nationalist Peoples' Radio - right-of-center? I don't think so... 

Pacifica must be 'out there'.

[Nacho]

NPR - the Nationalist Peoples' Radio - right-of-center? I don't think so...  Cheesy

LoL....yep...geeez, do we have like communist frequenting the board now?
I would call NPR left of left.....sometimes so far left they are almost right sometimes....
Just take a look at Bill Moyers show and you'll see what I'm talking about. I guess some bias is fine sometimes (example CNN & Fox ), but I don't want to hear some hack yapping 24/7 because they have an agenda.   

[MBZ]

Hi all!

Thanks for the info on Pacifica. I've been here for 18.5 years & I don't think that it was around when I left the USA.

This was in Friday's Wall Street Journal:

COMMENTARY

Hypocrisy Most Holy

By ALI AL-AHMED

May 20, 2005

With the revelation that a copy of the Quran may have been desecrated by U.S. military personnel at Guantanamo Bay, Muslims and their governments -- including that of Saudi Arabia -- reacted angrily. This anger would have been understandable if the U.S. government's adopted policy was to desecrate our Quran. But even before the Newsweek report was discredited, that was never part of the allegations.

As a Muslim, I am able to purchase copies of the Quran in any bookstore in any American city, and study its contents in countless American universities. American museums spend millions to exhibit and celebrate Muslim arts and heritage. On the other hand, my Christian and other non-Muslim brothers and sisters in Saudi Arabia -- where I come from -- are not even allowed to own a copy of their holy books. Indeed, the Saudi government desecrates and burns Bibles that its security forces confiscate at immigration points into the kingdom or during raids on Christian expatriates worshiping privately.

Soon after Newsweek published an account, later retracted, of an American soldier flushing a copy of the Quran down the toilet, the Saudi government voiced its strenuous disapproval. More specifically, the Saudi Embassy in Washington expressed "great concern" and urged the U.S. to "conduct a quick investigation."

Although considered as holy in Islam and mentioned in the Quran dozens of times, the Bible is banned in Saudi Arabia. This would seem curious to most people because of the fact that to most Muslims, the Bible is a holy book. But when it comes to Saudi Arabia we are not talking about most Muslims, but a tiny minority of hard-liners who constitute the Wahhabi Sect.

The Bible in Saudi Arabia may get a person killed, arrested, or deported. In September 1993, Sadeq Mallallah, 23, was beheaded in Qateef on a charge of apostasy for owning a Bible. The State Department's annual human rights reports detail the arrest and deportation of many Christian worshipers every year. Just days before Crown Prince Abdullah met President Bush last month, two Christian gatherings were stormed in Riyadh. Bibles and crosses were confiscated, and will be incinerated. (The Saudi government does not even spare the Quran from desecration. On Oct. 14, 2004, dozens of Saudi men and women carried copies of the Quran as they protested in support of reformers in the capital, Riyadh. Although they carried the Qurans in part to protect themselves from assault by police, they were charged by hundreds of riot police, who stepped on the books with their shoes, according to one of the protesters.)

As Muslims, we have not been as generous as our Christian and Jewish counterparts in respecting others' holy books and religious symbols. Saudi Arabia bans the importation or the display of crosses, Stars of David or any other religious symbols not approved by the Wahhabi establishment. TV programs that show Christian clergymen, crosses or Stars of David are censored.

The desecration of religious texts and symbols and intolerance of varying religious viewpoints and beliefs have been issues of some controversy inside Saudi Arabia. Ruled by a Wahhabi theocracy, the ruling elite of Saudi Arabia have made it difficult for Christians, Jews, Hindus and others, as well as dissenting sects of Islam, to visibly coexist inside the kingdom.

Another way in which religious and cultural issues are becoming more divisive is the Saudi treatment of Americans who are living in that country: Around 30,000 live and work in various parts of Saudi Arabia. These people are not allowed to celebrate their religious or even secular holidays. These include Christmas and Easter, but also Thanksgiving. All other Gulf states allow non-Islamic holidays to be celebrated.

The Saudi Embassy and other Saudi organizations in Washington have distributed hundreds of thousands of Qurans and many more Muslim books, some that have libeled Christians, Jews and others as pigs and monkeys. In Saudi school curricula, Jews and Christians are considered deviants and eternal enemies. By contrast, Muslim communities in the West are the first to admit that Western countries -- especially the U.S. -- provide Muslims the strongest freedoms and protections that allow Islam to thrive in the West. Meanwhile Christianity and Judaism, both indigenous to the Middle East, are maligned through systematic hostility by Middle Eastern governments and their religious apparatuses.

The lesson here is simple: If Muslims wish other religions to respect their beliefs and their Holy book, they should lead by example.

Mr. al-Ahmed is director of the Saudi Institute in Washington.

Link: http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111653650439338424,00.html?mod=opinion&ojcontent=otep

Note where the author writes from, i.e. the USA & not Saudi Arabia. The Bill of Rights is a nifty thing.

Be well!

MBZ

[Tikhon29605]

I've never considered National Public Radio to be leftist or communist. Good heavens! Its CENTRIST. It is not right wing like Fox News, and it is not reactionary like Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, but to call it "communist" is simply absurd.

[Kolya]

MBZ,
You said:

Will do (as long as the meat is kosher & the grid on the grill is new)!

Actually, we might be coming to Dromie (from darom, the Hebrew word for "south", the local euphemism for South Africa) next year.  DW has a good friend in Jo'burg whose son will be having a bar mitzvah (http://www.jewfaq.org/barmitz.htm) the week before Passover.
I find that of all the SA lagers, I like Windhoek Lager  from Namibia best.

You’re on! New grill just for you and the best Kosher Jo’burg can offer!!! (And Windhoek)

In Genesis 16:11-12, God tells Hagar, who is pregnant with Ishmael:

Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; and you shall call his name Ishmael, because the Lord has heard your affliction.  And he shall be a wild donkey of a man: his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the face of all his brethren.

I often wonder about how this may apply to Ishmael's descendants, i.e. the Arabs. 

I’d stick my neck out here and say that prophesy is spot-on! 

Go well.

Kolya

[Vasilisa]

I've always loved that little speech, primarily because it takes away the simple ability to find that all the world's ills are caused by some "others" who can be conveniently blamed for our own sicknesses.

So, like all hands that point, there three fingers pointing back to one who is pointing, yes?
Very, very interesting thought.

[Αριστοκλής]

I've never considered National Public Radio to be leftist or communist. Good heavens! Its CENTRIST. It is not right wing like Fox News, and it is not reactionary like Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh, but to call it "communist" is simply absurd.

Now THAT is funny! How perceptions are relative, I mean. I hold Mike Savage to be reactionary, Rush far right, Sean mid-right, FOX in the middle, and NPR a big left of center. Oh, and me...I am a cynic.

[Αριστοκλής]

I see that MBZ quoted a Wall Street Journal piece on Newsweek. They also had a piece last week by a former Newsweek editor who stated that the magazine (and by extension, all of us) should have KNOWN that to a Muslim the words of the Koran, written or spoken in Arabic, are as close to their Eucharist as that concept can be applied. While I have no warm, fuzzy feelings for Islam in general, he had a good point. There was no point is directly insulting them.

[Tikhon29605]

Now THAT is funny! How perceptions are relative, I mean. I hold Mike Savage to be reactionary, Rush far right, Sean mid-right, FOX in the middle, and NPR a big left of center. Oh, and me...I am a cynic.

I can somewhat see your point and the reasonings behind your classifications. This is hardly an exact science after all.  I'd actually agree with your classification of Savage, Rush, and Sean (and in that order as well).  However, I wouldn't put Fox in the middle. For me it would be slightly right of center. NPR would be dead center, in my view. And really leftist, to me, would be Molly Ivins and Mother Jones.  Just some thoughts.

[Nacho]

You could say Savage is a reactionary but what I like about the guy is that he bashes both the greedy check-pants repubs. and the left. I agree with most of what he says and his motto is that he's for whatever is good for America basically (Borders, language & culture). He always interviews interesting people like Pat Buchanan and recently he has had a few presidents of some of the bigger Unions on talking about how much Nafta & now Cafta are screwing over the middle class in this country. I also enjoy the entertainment value and how he rants about the empty suites & skirts in Washington and the media. I can't really stand listening to Sean, Rush, or the degenerates on Air America because they are just hacks and water carriers for their poltical parties/special interest groups. His latest new idea is outsouring the congress to India since they have no problem with giving into the greedy millionares/billionares that are outsourcing our jobs to slave camps in China & other places on top of flooding our country with illegal immigrants. Also, the Indians would do a better job than the congress is now and we would save a bundle of money.. Another great idea is his oil for illegals program. Since Mexico is so oil rich they should give us one barrel of oil per month for every illegal alien in the country. That would work out to roughly 1/12 of the oil we consume and it would be a fair trade off for the billions in taxes the american people pay for the extra social services used by the illegals. 

[Tikhon29605]

Nacho:
     You make a good point about Savage. Despite the fact that he is extremely outspoken, he is most refreshing in that he DOES question agendas, whether it be the agenda of the right or the agenda of the left.  I love how Savage disagrees with President Bush on NAFTA and CAFTA and is not afraid to say so.  I get the impression that Hannity and Limbaugh would NEVER criticize Bush for anything. And anyone, be he right, left or centrist, who says "my President, right or wrong" or "my Party right or wrong" isn't objective at all, but simply a mouthpiece for a preconceived agenda.

[Nacho]

Nacho:
     You make a good point about Savage. Despite the fact that he is extremely outspoken, he is most refreshing in that he DOES question agendas, whether it be the agenda of the right or the agenda of the left.  I love how Savage disagrees with President Bush on NAFTA and CAFTA and is not afraid to say so.  I get the impression that Hannity and Limbaugh would NEVER criticize Bush for anything. And anyone, be he right, left or centrist, who says "my President, right or wrong" or "my Party right or wrong" isn't objective at all, but simply a mouthpiece for a preconceived agenda.

Yea, lol in fact he has been bashing on the prez. quite alot lately. I laugh my a@@ off when he makes fun of people on the right.. He's been making fun of Rush almost on a daily basis and his nickname for him is "Hush Bimbo." He's always making funny little comments like, "well, you won't hear about this from Hush Bimbo because he thinks GWB is the best thing since Jesus Christ himself," or the best is when he'll play a clip from Hush's show & then have little mock takes from it like, "Well, Mr. Cheney & I were smoking cigars on my Gulf Stream jet and we decided that the best thing to do would not to raise the min. wage and let the free market decide on where wages should be (evil laugh haha)."  He also calls Sean Hannity "Pawn Vannity" and he also talks alot of trash about the wishy washy Bill O'Reilly whom he calls the "Leper-Con" lol. He says his job is to "mock the mockers," and it's hilarious because he does it to both the mockers on the right & left. I would probably describe him as a conservative independent, but he also champions alot of the economic values of the old school democrats which is pretty cool. He's really the only guy I can listen to on radio because he tells it like it is for the most part and I love how agressive and funny he can be at times. The best is when he goes off on some hack that is trying to set him up when they call in and he verbally rips them into shreds within seconds....

[Matthew777]

Nacho:
     You make a good point about Savage. Despite the fact that he is extremely outspoken, he is most refreshing in that he DOES question agendas...

Does he ever question his own agenda to defame the Left at any cost? What if people actually started believing that liberalism is a "mental disorder"?

[Nacho]

Does he ever question his own agenda to defame the Left at any cost? What if people actually started believing that liberalism is a "mental disorder"?

...and you don't think it is? Maybe you should read his new book "Liberalism is a mental disorder" to get the proper context of what he means. Also, what is his agenda? His beliefs are allover the map, thus he's very critical of both political parties and how they only serve their own special interest groups that fund them. The only agenda he has is to see to it that America prospers and that the average working american makes a fair wage which is becoming increasingly harder these days when we are 'opened' up for competition in a global market. You should listen to his show to really understand what he's talking about before making judgements about him. So what if he doesn't like far left elements in this country, they are also doing alot that's not good for the average person. 

[Matthew777]

So what if he doesn't like far left elements in this country, they are also doing alot that's not good for the average person.

One could say the same of the right-wing extremism which dominates today's political climate.
In truth, one could describe me as a "moderate conservative". However, I do not like to use the term "conservative" because of how foolish politics has become. Last time I checked, "conservatism" did not denote massive deficit spending and unnecessary war.

[Donna Rose]

One could say the same of the right-wing extremism which dominates today's political climate.

you clearly dont live in NYC.

[Nacho]

One could say the same of the right-wing extremism which dominates today's political climate.
In truth, one could describe me as a "moderate conservative". However, I do not like to use the term "conservative" because of how foolish politics has become. Last time I checked, "conservatism" did not denote massive deficit spending and unnecessary war.

Hmmm, well you obviously don't listen to Savage at all because he's been saying for a long time the problems with the war and deficit. Also, there are really no true "conservatives" left in government, read some of Pat Buchanan's books especially the one called "Where the Right went wrong." What we have are big spending liberal types that happen to be conservative on some social issues.Also, your comment about "right wing extremism" is just silly, todays so called conservatives are just yesterday's liberals. I agree with you for the most part with what you wrote. I'm very conservative on social issues but centrist on economic issues. I don't care for the extreme capitalism either that permeates this country because it's having devastating effects on the family unit. I guess I would describe myself as somewhat of an old school southern democrat if they are still around. Conservative on social issues, but economically for the working man who are the backbone of this country. If anyone finds a politican like this, please tell me. 

you clearly dont live in NYC.

We have the same problem in California. Businesses are leaving for Nevada in droves along with alot of middle class type people because of the lawyers and crazy leftists that run Sacramento. Trust me, I see the insanity everyday because I work in the political arena and see it first hand at the capitol. Special intrerest run this state and any politician that goes against them are branded a traitor. 

[Matthew777]

If anyone finds a politican like this, please tell me. 

Roy Moore 2008
http://constitutionparty.com/

What we have are big spending liberal types that happen to be conservative on some social issues.

Hellooooooooo Mr. Bush

Ironically, the true fiscal conservatives are the Democrats. Just compare Clinton to Bush.

[Nacho]

Roy Moore 2008

LoL, that would never happen in a million years but it would be nice.

Ironically, the true fiscal conservatives are the Democrats. Just compare Clinton to Bush.

Sadly I would have to agree with you about Clinton. He was really good on economic issues (except for NAFTA) and I thought he did a pretty good job when it came to that. Now I wouldn't say the dems of today are fiscal conservatives because I really don't think there are any left in any party. Basically, the dems & repubs spend way too much, and what it really comes down to is where the money will be spent and who's special interest will be served. 

[Nacho]

Oh oh.......the islamist would have nothing to do with hypocracy now would they? Look at this newstory that just came out.
http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=ForeignBureausarchive200505FOR20050523b.html

Saudi's Destroy Bibles, Think Tank Affirms

Taken from CNS News.com

<excerpt>

Saudis Do Destroy Bibles, Think Tank Affirms
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com International Editor
May 23, 2005

(CNSNews.com) - A U.S.-based think tank critical of the Saudi government has added its voice to allegations that authorities in the kingdom routinely destroy Bibles.

"As a matter of official policy, the government either incinerates or dumps Bibles, crosses and other Christian paraphernalia," the Saudi Institute said in an article posted on its website.

"Although considered as holy in Islam and mentioned in the Koran dozens of times, the Bible is banned in Saudi Arabia, and is confiscated and destroyed by government officials," it said.

Last week a Christian pastor who worked in Saudi Arabia during the 1990s told the Cybercast News Service it was widely known among underground Christians there that Bibles were confiscated -- and sometimes shredded -- by Saudi customs officials at ports of entry.

The Saudi Embassy in Washington has yet to respond to emailed queries about its policies regarding the Bibles and the shredding allegations.

Saudi Arabia was one of the first governments to protest after Newsweek reported earlier this month that U.S. troops had thrown a Koran into a toilet to fluster Muslim terror suspects being detained by the U.S. military at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

A statement issued on May 12 said the Saudi government was "following with great concern and apprehension reports that the sanctity of the Holy Koran has been violated on several occasions at Guantanamo Bay."

Following rioting in Afghanistan and protests elsewhere in the Muslim world, Newsweek retracted the report. It said its unnamed government source was no longer certain about his original claim that he saw the Koran flushing mentioned in a military report of abuse at the base.

Home to Islam's two most revered sites, in Mecca and Medina, Saudi Arabia views itself as guardian of the religion. The kingdom is committed to the fundamentalist Wahhabi ideology, and non-Wahhabi Muslim traditions are frowned upon.

Human rights campaigners name Saudi Arabia as one of the world's most egregious violators of religious freedom.

<snip>

[Nacho]

Time to burn Saudi flags, go wild in the streets and go on a jihad?........oh I forgot we don't do that in the west when our holy book is desecrated by the thousands.... It's so weird seeing these people in action, it's like looking through a warmwhole 1200 years into the past.

[cizinec]

Didn't see this article posted here yet.

http://news.serbianunity.net/bydate/2005/May_20/33.html

[SouthSerb99]

Cizinec,

     You know, it really is sad... I mean it isn't anything I didn't know, but what hypocrites.  Great article, too bad it won't catch on.  Orthodox Holy sites aren't worth a hill of beans to the world.

[Nacho]

On the other hand, I also believe that justice demands that Muslims who have burned down or blown up 140 Churches in Kosovo owe Christians throughout the world an apology and that Muslims need to rebuild or at least finance the rebuilding of every one of those Christian churches.

This should not be hard to do. It is something the United Nations might be capable of doing. After all, those Churches were destroyed during the time that Kosovo has been controlled by the United Nations. A just and workable solution to this situation would be to require Christians to replace the Koran for every Guantanamo Bay inmate who had his Koran flushed down the toilet in exchange for the Muslims replacing every Christian church Muslims destroyed in Kosovo and other nations.

 :flame: :flame: :flame: :flame:

It will be a cold day in hell when the islamo-fascist stop bombing christian churches and the UN actually does something about rebuilding them. I don't think you can reason with these people at all. When I read what they are doing to our holy places I keep thinking of that famous line by George Orwell who said, "If they come to put a bomb in your mothers house, put a bomb in their mothers' house first."  The only thing that I can say right now is that God watches and waites.......

[TomS]

I have an idea for a SNL sketch - although it would be way to PC to do -- would go something like this:

Have Bush sitting down in the morning at breakfast reading the Quran. In walks Dick Cheney and says "Morning Mr. President, what are you reading?" Bush replies, "Well, Dick, gotta read this Quran thing. See what all the fuss is about. Gotta meet with a representative of those Muslim folks from the UN today". Then it is announced that teh representative is here. The Representative comes in and Bush asks a question about the Quran and the representative tells him it is further along in the book. Bush says "Show me where. Oh wait! Don't want to loose my place!" Bush looks around for a bookmark, and he can't find one - so he takes a flat strip of bacon off his plate and uses it as a bookmark.

Then more things like that happen...

[observer]

We keep discussing the pros and cons of the hornets.  Moslem terrorists are being used to undermine Christianity (I believe).  You set nests around the world and then stir them up to sting everyone.  Eventually 'decent' people will take action into their own hands. I heard today that doctors in US have to be sensitive to Moslems.  No using left hand to examine patients, plenty of prayer rugs in waiting room and don't forget that women are second-class.  Norway has 3% population Moslem with 98% crime being committed by them.  Whatever happened to the Vikings?

[Nacho]

We keep discussing the pros and cons of the hornets.  Moslem terrorists are being used to undermine Christianity (I believe).  You set nests around the world and then stir them up to sting everyone.  Eventually 'decent' people will take action into their own hands. I heard today that doctors in US have to be sensitive to Moslems.  No using left hand to examine patients, plenty of prayer rugs in waiting room and don't forget that women are second-class.  Norway has 3% population Moslem with 98% crime being committed by them.  Whatever happened to the Vikings?

LoL.....You got caught!! You must have been listening to Michael Savage today when that Doctor called in discussing how he has to be 'seennsssiiitive' to the needs of muslims..... That's just got to infuriate you when they are demanding special needs on the rest of us. I really like listening to him because you get the scoop of what's really going on in this crazy world of ours. I remember when the whole Kosovo debacle was going on he was the only person in the media who exposed what was really happening and how the deviants at the UN painted UN & NATO insignias on our american jet fighter planes thinking they were sly or something. He still talks about it alot today and how we took the side of the radical islamo-facist thugs. There is no excuse EVER for what the hell we did when we dropped bombs on an Orthodox Country. Notice how they never showed pictures of what happened? They won't show you the thousands of dead innocent Serbs and they won't show you the bridges they bombed to pieces over the Danube. In regards to Norway there is no hope for them at all. Their insane liberalism has caused their own destruction 'within' and now they have to pay the price. Sucks for them...

I have an idea for a SNL sketch - although it would be way to PC to do -- would go something like this:

Have Bush sitting down in the morning at breakfast reading the Quran. In walks Dick Cheney and says "Morning Mr. President, what are you reading?" Bush replies, "Well, Dick, gotta read this Quran thing. See what all the fuss is about. Gotta meet with a representative of those Muslim folks from the UN today". Then it is announced that teh representative is here. The Representative comes in and Bush asks a question about the Quran and the representative tells him it is further along in the book. Bush says "Show me where. Oh wait! Don't want to loose my place!" Bush looks around for a bookmark, and he can't find one - so he takes a flat strip of bacon off his plate and uses it as a bookmark.

Then more things like that happen...

Haha.... ....That's such a great idea! I doubt it would be done though because we wouldn't want to create any riots half the world away now would we? I would also create a skit on Amnesty International who just came out and said we are the biggest human rights abusers in the entire world. I guess they have nothing to say about all those nice places of torture in the middle east and the slavery of women......to them if you 'mishandle' a Quran or even look at it the wrong way then you should be put before an international tribunal for crimes against humanity... Maybe their buddies in the ACLU who like to hang out with NAMBLA can give them a hand also. They could all meet in Brussels at the hauge and have one big bath house party and Pinchy Solsberger from the New York Times could cover the event and put it on the front page....

[Nacho]

HAHA....I just saw this. Does anyone here read Scrappleface? This is so funny...

http://www.scrappleface.com/

U.S. Blamed for Koran Harm in WTC Collapse
by Scott Ott

(2005-05-27) -- Muslims in Pakistan and Afghanistan rioted today in response to new reports that copies of the Koran were desecrated when two American buildings collapsed after being struck by American airplanes in September of 2001.

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) revealed that fragments of the burned and soiled Korans were discovered in the ruins of the World Trade Center towers in New York City.

A spokesman for the ACLU said the Bush administration did little to prevent the damage to the Islamic holy books, that apparently belonged to Muslims who worked in the office towers until their "unjustified termination" during the morning of September 11, 2001.

"This is just another example of U.S. insensitivity to cultural diversity," said the unnamed ACLU spokesman. "To add insult to injury, anonymous sources say that some of the Koran fragments may have been unceremoniously dumped in a landfill."


------Here's another good one...

Baghdad Mosque Closings Spark Weapons Shortage
by Scott Ott

(2005-05-21) -- Since Friday's announcement by a Sunni Muslim cleric that Baghdad's Sunni Mosques would close for three days to protest killings blamed on Iraqi security forces, consumers said they're struggling to find alternate sources for weaponry.

"My children and I stood on line at a back-alley dealer for seven hours just to buy mortar rounds," said one unnamed local resident. "My uncle just called and he's got one rocket-propelled grenade left, and has completely exhausted his family's supply of roadside bombs."

Indeed, industry sources report that the price of all kinds of small armaments jumped 73 percent within minutes of the announcement that the mosques would close.

"When you get an improvised explosive device at the mosque, you can rely on the quality," said one unnamed regular customer. "But a lot of the stuff you buy on the street is shoddy work that might send you to Allah before you get to the crowd of infidels. I think we're going to see a lot of second-rate martyrdom work until the mosques re-open."

[Kizzy]

The thing we need to remember is that Islamic extremists take advantage of the 'non-united' and splintered Christian faith.  One major motivation for the EO and RC to give some semblance of 'unity' if not full unity, is the need to stand together in the face of such an adversary as Islam.  As to The Guantanamo fiasco.. The media looks for what sells magazines... and anything about Islam is  a hot topic... Orthodox Christianity is not on their radar screen...because they are only looking for what will sell mags to lots of people...Betcha right now most reporters  know more about Islam than Orthodox Christianity.   When they used to report on Kosovo, they rarely mentioned 'Orthodox' Christians in the discussion.  Now they got everyone worried about another Jihad.. and people will be buying more magazines for 'chapter 3' of the saga... Today I was listening to the radio and the newscaster  said "The Pentagon now says that there was mishandling of the Quran"  Well what the Pentagon said was that it wasn't flushed.. the guy who said it was never even saw it .. just heard about it... and that there were some accounts that could be broadly  called 'mishandling' of the Quran." So why did the newscaster change the emphasis on the words to completel mislead the listener... even after they played the Pentagon official's report, the newscaster said it wrong again...leaving the listener to believe things were worse than they were! 
Dont' these guys know that there are people waiting with bombs ready to explode with any provocation... !

I am paranoid now... heard that travel this summer will be back to pre -911 levels.. we're going to Greece for the first time in many decades... My trip better not get 'messed up'.. because of these stupid irresponsible reporters...!.
In XC, Kizzy

[Matthew777]

It is rather ironic that the Bush administration is blaming Newsweek for costing lives with false information while they are the ones who started an entire war on intentionally false information. Derrrrrr. 

[Nacho]

It is rather ironic that the Bush administration is blaming Newsweek for costing lives with false information while they are the ones who started an entire war on intentionally false information. Derrrrrr

Uhhh.....what does the war in Iraq have to do with riots in Pakistan and Afghanistan? The people in those two countries were inflamed when that story from newsweek came out about the koran being flushed down the toilet....at no point did Iraq ever come up. I think you need to check your facts before you make such absurd accusations. Newsweek should take all the blame for being such a hack organization that will print anything they think will sell... :flame:

[Matthew777]

Please consider the irony: When Newsweek makes a mistake (the release of this questionable story that inspired rioting) that costs lives, the Bush administration accuses them of bad journalism. When the Bush administration intentionally makes a mistake that costs thousands of lives (the war in Iraq), they call it "patriotism".
Has anyone read any of the recently leaked British intelligence memo which confirms what we should have known all along, that Bush wanted to invade Iraq from the beginning and cherry-picked the intelligence to fit his preconceived conclusions?

"SECRET AND STRICTLY PERSONAL -- UK EYES ONLY

From: Matthew Rycroft

Date: 23 July 2002

S 195 /02

IRAQ: PRIME MINISTER'S MEETING, 23 JULY

This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. It should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know its contents.

John Scarlett summarised the intelligence and latest JIC assessment. Saddam's regime was tough and based on extreme fear. The only way to overthrow it was likely to be by massive military action. Saddam was worried and expected an attack, probably by air and land, but he was not convinced that it would be immediate or overwhelming. His regime expected their neighbours to line up with the US. Saddam knew that regular army morale was poor. Real support for Saddam among the public was probably narrowly based.

C reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. The NSC had no patience with the UN route, and no enthusiasm for publishing material on the Iraqi regime's record. There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action..."
http://www.inlander.com/topstory/283392740306786.php

[Nacho]

Please consider the irony: When Newsweek makes a mistake (the release of this questionable story that inspired rioting) that costs lives, the Bush administration accuses them of bad journalism. When the Bush administration intentionally makes a mistake that costs thousands of lives (the war in Iraq), they call it patriotism.
Has anyone read any of the recently leaked Brittish intelligence memo which confirms what we should have known all along, that Bush wanted to invade Iraq from the beginning and cherry-picked the intelligence to fit his preconceived conclusions?

Look, I'm no defender of this war either...I had thoughts way back then of this war being a big mistake when something like 85% of the populace and the majority of congress thought it was a great idea. If the president and congress knew the mess that would be involved with Iraq now, I doubt they would have voted to invade at all. It's very silly and immature for you to play the "hindsight" game now. Tony Blair and other leaders of very liberal countries made the same claims that Sadam was building up a nuclear arsenal and weapons of mass destruction. So Mathew, are you ready to claim there was some kind of conspiracy since these countries including the U.N made all the same claims about Iraq?.... :flame: 

[Matthew777]

If the president and congress knew the mess that would be involved with Iraq now, I doubt they would have voted to invade at all.

Did you read the article? The point is that Bush knew the intelligence to be false but presented it to Congress, the American people and the world as a smoke-screen. The memo really is the "smoking gun".

[Nacho]

Did you read the article? The point is that Bush knew the intelligence to be false but presented it to Congress, the American people and the world as a smoke-screen. The memo really is the "smoking gun".

So you found one stinkin' report that makes it appear so. I could probably find others that say otherwise. Can you please explain to me since you seem to be an expert in foreign policy how anti-war people like John Kerry and Diane Fienstein who looked at the same intelligence as the prez. came to the same conclusion of Iraq being a threat thus voting for the war? Please also explain how other rational liberal type people like Tony Blair also came to the same conclusion in other countries? Why did the UN also claim that he had all these nuclear stockpiles? Since you know more than all these people I'm really looking forward for you to enlighten us with your vast knowledge of the subject.......

[Matthew777]

Firstly, the point on Tony Blair is that he knew the intelligence to be false also, but agreed to go to war with Iraq as long as we went after Al Qaeda first.
The UN weapons inspectors, including Hans Blix, agreed that Iraq did not have stockpiles of nuclear weapons.
John Kerry, like other members of Congress, trusted the president to present a truthful rationale for war and like other politicians in the aftermath of 9/11, was afraid of sounding "unpatriotic" by opposing the war.
The Constitution Party has been against this war from the very beginning. Why? There is absolutely nothing conservative about it. The only thing that I can compare it to, invading a defenseless nation for frivilous reasons, is fascism or empirialism.

[Nacho]

Firstly, the point on Tony Blair is that he knew the intelligence to be false also, but agreed to go to war with Iraq as long as we went after Al Qaeda first.
The UN weapons inspectors, including Hans Blix, agreed that Iraq did not have stockpiles of nuclear weapons.
John Kerry, like other members of Congress, trusted the president to present a truthful rationale for war and like other politicians in the aftermath of 9/11, was afraid of sounding "unpatriotic" by opposing the war.
The Constitution Party has been against this war from the very beginning. Why? There is absolutely nothing conservative about it. The only thing that I can compare it to, invading a defenseless nation for frivilous reasons, is fascism or empirialism.

Mathew, your comment about fascism makes you sound like a moonbat. Fascism would be for us to actually take over Iraq and impose our will on them. Instead, Iraq had a free election where the majority of it's citizens turned out to vote because it was something they have been yearning for a long time. We are training over 100,000 Iraq policemen and soldiers so that soon they will have complete control over their affairs and our military can come home. All in all, it's better for the world and the people of Iraq that Sadam is gone. It's too bad you highlight the negative over the greater good. The military people over in Iraq also see it differently than you also.

Your also wrong about Blix and all the UN resolutions which stated that Sadam did in fact have these weapons. The whole purpose of the 17 UN resolutions against Sadam was for him to give up his stockpiles. He did not comply when he kicked out the UN inspectors on numerous occasions. What's the point of a resolution is it's not going to be upheld? We were just holding up our end of the bargain in the resolutions which stated if there was no cooperation and full compliance that military action would be eventually taken. Your also wrong about Kerry, Feintstein and the majority of the other Dems that agreed and voted for military action. They saw all the same intelligence reports from the CIA that the president saw and came to the same conclusions. Kerry was asked on numerous occasions later  if he regretted the way he voted and he said he did not because he beleived at the time Iraq was a threat from all the intelligence reports he looked over. It was not just coming from the CIA, but other countries like Egypt, Britian, Australia, Spain, etc. had very similiar "claims" that indeed these WMD's were existence. It's best to set aside your emotions and political beliefs when looking at the facts. I was a big supporter of the war also but now I'm indifferent. I basically think that we can't really judge the outcome of all this for another 5 years. If down the road everything is going very well for Iraq then it may have been worth it, but for now I'll just sit on the sidelines.