Author Topic: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young  (Read 725 times)

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Offline Altar Server

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New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« on: October 02, 2014, 01:37:08 PM »
I am interested to hear from both EO and OO on this topic.

In the Orthodox Church, in modern practice, and historically, can a woman become:
a chanter? Reader? Sub-deacon? Deacon?
If so, is the woman ordained/tonsured to these roles, or does she just serve in that capacity without ordination?
Does the woman wear the same/similar vestments to the man when performing these roles?
You might be interested in this conference in New YorK:
http://orthodoxdeaconess.org/women-diaconal-ministry-conference/

Go and get all your questions answered in one shot.

One of the speakers is not Orthodox, and another is from New Skete. Caveat emptor.

I find statements like this mind boggling. This is a conference and I certainly see the rational for both speakers.

LBK just loathes all things related to New Skete :P
All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God, keep me under your protection!

Offline LBK

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Re: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2014, 06:21:31 PM »
I am interested to hear from both EO and OO on this topic.

In the Orthodox Church, in modern practice, and historically, can a woman become:
a chanter? Reader? Sub-deacon? Deacon?
If so, is the woman ordained/tonsured to these roles, or does she just serve in that capacity without ordination?
Does the woman wear the same/similar vestments to the man when performing these roles?
You might be interested in this conference in New YorK:
http://orthodoxdeaconess.org/women-diaconal-ministry-conference/

Go and get all your questions answered in one shot.

One of the speakers is not Orthodox, and another is from New Skete. Caveat emptor.

I find statements like this mind boggling. This is a conference and I certainly see the rational for both speakers.

LBK just loathes all things related to New Skete
:P

A group which paints "iconographic" non-Orthodox religious figures on the walls of the nave of one of its churches, and commemorates non-Orthodox saints liturgically should ring alarm bells in anyone who is Orthodox.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 06:21:51 PM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Altar Server

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Re: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2014, 06:32:43 PM »
A group which paints "iconographic" non-Orthodox religious figures on the walls of the nave of one of its churches, and commemorates non-Orthodox saints liturgically should ring alarm bells in anyone who is Orthodox.

yep :)
All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God, keep me under your protection!

Offline Opus118

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Re: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2014, 12:43:34 AM »
I am interested to hear from both EO and OO on this topic.

In the Orthodox Church, in modern practice, and historically, can a woman become:
a chanter? Reader? Sub-deacon? Deacon?
If so, is the woman ordained/tonsured to these roles, or does she just serve in that capacity without ordination?
Does the woman wear the same/similar vestments to the man when performing these roles?
You might be interested in this conference in New YorK:
http://orthodoxdeaconess.org/women-diaconal-ministry-conference/

Go and get all your questions answered in one shot.

One of the speakers is not Orthodox, and another is from New Skete. Caveat emptor.

I find statements like this mind boggling. This is a conference and I certainly see the rational for both speakers.

LBK just loathes all things related to New Skete
:P

A group which paints "iconographic" non-Orthodox religious figures on the walls of the nave of one of its churches, and commemorates non-Orthodox saints liturgically should ring alarm bells in anyone who is Orthodox.

To be clear you are talking about an icon of St. Francis of Assisi and an icon of Mother Teresa at the main monastery church. I do not know much about Mother Teresa other than the news. I did go to the theater to watch the movie about St. Francis when it came out in 1961. It was produced by a member of Skouras family (Greek Orthodox - Saint Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles). Sister Rebecca, who you are complaining about has completed over 60 years of service and over 50 years of ministry as a nun. She is totally relevant in discussing the role of a deaconess.

In regard to the caveat emptor statement. Since I think their iconography is appropriate in the context of a monastery, I am willing to pm you whenever I post in the faith or convert subsections of the forum so as to give you the opportunity to add a caveat emptor. You can expand the above subsections if you like but it cannot include the prayer subsection. If this is agreeable to you let me know.
"Mi tío es enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!" - old Chilean saying

Offline LBK

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Re: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2014, 01:23:36 AM »
I am interested to hear from both EO and OO on this topic.

In the Orthodox Church, in modern practice, and historically, can a woman become:
a chanter? Reader? Sub-deacon? Deacon?
If so, is the woman ordained/tonsured to these roles, or does she just serve in that capacity without ordination?
Does the woman wear the same/similar vestments to the man when performing these roles?
You might be interested in this conference in New YorK:
http://orthodoxdeaconess.org/women-diaconal-ministry-conference/

Go and get all your questions answered in one shot.

One of the speakers is not Orthodox, and another is from New Skete. Caveat emptor.

I find statements like this mind boggling. This is a conference and I certainly see the rational for both speakers.

LBK just loathes all things related to New Skete
:P

A group which paints "iconographic" non-Orthodox religious figures on the walls of the nave of one of its churches, and commemorates non-Orthodox saints liturgically should ring alarm bells in anyone who is Orthodox.

To be clear you are talking about an icon of St. Francis of Assisi and an icon of Mother Teresa at the main monastery church. I do not know much about Mother Teresa other than the news. I did go to the theater to watch the movie about St. Francis when it came out in 1961. It was produced by a member of Skouras family (Greek Orthodox - Saint Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles). Sister Rebecca, who you are complaining about has completed over 60 years of service and over 50 years of ministry as a nun. She is totally relevant in discussing the role of a deaconess.

In regard to the caveat emptor statement. Since I think their iconography is appropriate in the context of a monastery, I am willing to pm you whenever I post in the faith or convert subsections of the forum so as to give you the opportunity to add a caveat emptor. You can expand the above subsections if you like but it cannot include the prayer subsection. If this is agreeable to you let me know.

Opus, there are several paintings of several non-Orthodox figures in an iconographic style, and on the same scale as proper icons of Orthodox saints, in the nave of a New Skete church. There is no way that such depictions are appropriate in the nave of ANY Orthodox church, much less a monastery. The same goes for liturgical commemoration (as in holding services on their feastdays, not just commemorating them by name) of non-Orthodox saints such as Francis and Clare of Assisi.

As for the Skouros brothers, the LA cathedral they founded bears a huge Mother of God of the Sign icon above the altar, where the Virgin's face was modeled on that of the 1940s actress Loretta Young, no doubt a nod to the brothers being powerful film studio executives. They could be perhaps excused for not realizing that such a painting was utterly wrong as iconography, but what's the excuse for New Skete's transgressions? None.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Opus118

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Re: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2014, 01:52:38 AM »
I am interested to hear from both EO and OO on this topic.

In the Orthodox Church, in modern practice, and historically, can a woman become:
a chanter? Reader? Sub-deacon? Deacon?
If so, is the woman ordained/tonsured to these roles, or does she just serve in that capacity without ordination?
Does the woman wear the same/similar vestments to the man when performing these roles?
You might be interested in this conference in New YorK:
http://orthodoxdeaconess.org/women-diaconal-ministry-conference/

Go and get all your questions answered in one shot.

One of the speakers is not Orthodox, and another is from New Skete. Caveat emptor.

I find statements like this mind boggling. This is a conference and I certainly see the rational for both speakers.

LBK just loathes all things related to New Skete
:P

A group which paints "iconographic" non-Orthodox religious figures on the walls of the nave of one of its churches, and commemorates non-Orthodox saints liturgically should ring alarm bells in anyone who is Orthodox.

To be clear you are talking about an icon of St. Francis of Assisi and an icon of Mother Teresa at the main monastery church. I do not know much about Mother Teresa other than the news. I did go to the theater to watch the movie about St. Francis when it came out in 1961. It was produced by a member of Skouras family (Greek Orthodox - Saint Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles). Sister Rebecca, who you are complaining about has completed over 60 years of service and over 50 years of ministry as a nun. She is totally relevant in discussing the role of a deaconess.

In regard to the caveat emptor statement. Since I think their iconography is appropriate in the context of a monastery, I am willing to pm you whenever I post in the faith or convert subsections of the forum so as to give you the opportunity to add a caveat emptor. You can expand the above subsections if you like but it cannot include the prayer subsection. If this is agreeable to you let me know.

Opus, there are several paintings of several non-Orthodox figures in an iconographic style, and on the same scale as proper icons of Orthodox saints, in the nave of a New Skete church. There is no way that such depictions are appropriate in the nave of ANY Orthodox church, much less a monastery. The same goes for liturgical commemoration (as in holding services on their feastdays, not just commemorating them by name) of non-Orthodox saints such as Francis and Clare of Assisi.

As for the Skouros brothers, the LA cathedral they founded bears a huge Mother of God of the Sign icon above the altar, where the Virgin's face was modeled on that of the 1940s actress Loretta Young, no doubt a nod to the brothers being powerful film studio executives. They could be perhaps excused for not realizing that such a painting was utterly wrong as iconography, but what's the excuse for New Skete's transgressions? None.

It is late for me. This belongs in the other thread. I am still not buying your argument as of now and my suggestion of pm's still stand. I suspect Loretta Young is a good model, I used to watch her TV show. As years past I am becoming more fond of Carole Lombard.
"Mi tío es enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!" - old Chilean saying

Offline LBK

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Re: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2014, 02:00:12 AM »
I am interested to hear from both EO and OO on this topic.

In the Orthodox Church, in modern practice, and historically, can a woman become:
a chanter? Reader? Sub-deacon? Deacon?
If so, is the woman ordained/tonsured to these roles, or does she just serve in that capacity without ordination?
Does the woman wear the same/similar vestments to the man when performing these roles?
You might be interested in this conference in New YorK:
http://orthodoxdeaconess.org/women-diaconal-ministry-conference/

Go and get all your questions answered in one shot.

One of the speakers is not Orthodox, and another is from New Skete. Caveat emptor.

I find statements like this mind boggling. This is a conference and I certainly see the rational for both speakers.

LBK just loathes all things related to New Skete
:P

A group which paints "iconographic" non-Orthodox religious figures on the walls of the nave of one of its churches, and commemorates non-Orthodox saints liturgically should ring alarm bells in anyone who is Orthodox.

To be clear you are talking about an icon of St. Francis of Assisi and an icon of Mother Teresa at the main monastery church. I do not know much about Mother Teresa other than the news. I did go to the theater to watch the movie about St. Francis when it came out in 1961. It was produced by a member of Skouras family (Greek Orthodox - Saint Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles). Sister Rebecca, who you are complaining about has completed over 60 years of service and over 50 years of ministry as a nun. She is totally relevant in discussing the role of a deaconess.

In regard to the caveat emptor statement. Since I think their iconography is appropriate in the context of a monastery, I am willing to pm you whenever I post in the faith or convert subsections of the forum so as to give you the opportunity to add a caveat emptor. You can expand the above subsections if you like but it cannot include the prayer subsection. If this is agreeable to you let me know.

Opus, there are several paintings of several non-Orthodox figures in an iconographic style, and on the same scale as proper icons of Orthodox saints, in the nave of a New Skete church. There is no way that such depictions are appropriate in the nave of ANY Orthodox church, much less a monastery. The same goes for liturgical commemoration (as in holding services on their feastdays, not just commemorating them by name) of non-Orthodox saints such as Francis and Clare of Assisi.

As for the Skouros brothers, the LA cathedral they founded bears a huge Mother of God of the Sign icon above the altar, where the Virgin's face was modeled on that of the 1940s actress Loretta Young, no doubt a nod to the brothers being powerful film studio executives. They could be perhaps excused for not realizing that such a painting was utterly wrong as iconography, but what's the excuse for New Skete's transgressions? None.

It is late for me. This belongs in the other thread. I am still not buying your argument as of now and my suggestion of pm's still stand. I suspect Loretta Young is a good model, I used to watch her TV show. As years past I am becoming more fond of Carole Lombard.

Was Loretta Young the Mother of God? Yes or no? I strongly suggest you ask yourself that question, and understand why I have asked it.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Opus118

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Re: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2014, 10:20:32 AM »
I am interested to hear from both EO and OO on this topic.

In the Orthodox Church, in modern practice, and historically, can a woman become:
a chanter? Reader? Sub-deacon? Deacon?
If so, is the woman ordained/tonsured to these roles, or does she just serve in that capacity without ordination?
Does the woman wear the same/similar vestments to the man when performing these roles?
You might be interested in this conference in New YorK:
http://orthodoxdeaconess.org/women-diaconal-ministry-conference/

Go and get all your questions answered in one shot.

One of the speakers is not Orthodox, and another is from New Skete. Caveat emptor.

I find statements like this mind boggling. This is a conference and I certainly see the rational for both speakers.

LBK just loathes all things related to New Skete
:P

A group which paints "iconographic" non-Orthodox religious figures on the walls of the nave of one of its churches, and commemorates non-Orthodox saints liturgically should ring alarm bells in anyone who is Orthodox.

To be clear you are talking about an icon of St. Francis of Assisi and an icon of Mother Teresa at the main monastery church. I do not know much about Mother Teresa other than the news. I did go to the theater to watch the movie about St. Francis when it came out in 1961. It was produced by a member of Skouras family (Greek Orthodox - Saint Sophia Cathedral in Los Angeles). Sister Rebecca, who you are complaining about has completed over 60 years of service and over 50 years of ministry as a nun. She is totally relevant in discussing the role of a deaconess.

In regard to the caveat emptor statement. Since I think their iconography is appropriate in the context of a monastery, I am willing to pm you whenever I post in the faith or convert subsections of the forum so as to give you the opportunity to add a caveat emptor. You can expand the above subsections if you like but it cannot include the prayer subsection. If this is agreeable to you let me know.

Opus, there are several paintings of several non-Orthodox figures in an iconographic style, and on the same scale as proper icons of Orthodox saints, in the nave of a New Skete church. There is no way that such depictions are appropriate in the nave of ANY Orthodox church, much less a monastery. The same goes for liturgical commemoration (as in holding services on their feastdays, not just commemorating them by name) of non-Orthodox saints such as Francis and Clare of Assisi.

As for the Skouros brothers, the LA cathedral they founded bears a huge Mother of God of the Sign icon above the altar, where the Virgin's face was modeled on that of the 1940s actress Loretta Young, no doubt a nod to the brothers being powerful film studio executives. They could be perhaps excused for not realizing that such a painting was utterly wrong as iconography, but what's the excuse for New Skete's transgressions? None.

It is late for me. This belongs in the other thread. I am still not buying your argument as of now and my suggestion of pm's still stand. I suspect Loretta Young is a good model, I used to watch her TV show. As years past I am becoming more fond of Carole Lombard.

Was Loretta Young the Mother of God? Yes or no? I strongly suggest you ask yourself that question, and understand why I have asked it.

No. And I have no idea what you are driving at and this aspect doesn't belong here. I went to St. Sophia once on a trip to Disneyland. The whole interior of the cathedral is over the top, I am pretty sure I did not notice Loretta Young within the context of everything else.
"Mi tío es enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!" - old Chilean saying

Offline Salpy

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Offline Altar Server

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Re: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2014, 10:52:16 AM »
I logged on this morning and was like....when did I start this thread  ??? :P
All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God, keep me under your protection!

Offline Opus118

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Re: New Skete, St. Sophia Cathedral, and Loretta Young
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2014, 01:14:05 PM »
I logged on this morning and was like....when did I start this thread  ??? :P

You must be prepared for this when you post in any subforum moderated by Salpy. At least you got a really neat title!

I got "Is transsexualism a sin?" even though I did not post about transsexuals. It all depends where she decides to split off threads while she is baking her famous cinnamon-spiced baklava. It is hard to disagree with her priorities.
"Mi tío es enfermo, pero la carretera es verde!" - old Chilean saying