OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 20, 2014, 04:02:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Serb Orthodox Clerics to Visit Vatican  (Read 3050 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« on: February 03, 2003, 11:02:15 AM »

Serb Orthodox Clerics to Visit Vatican

1 hour, 33 minutes ago

VATICAN CITY - Serbian Orthodox clerics will pay a six-day visit to
the
Vatican next week in efforts to improve Christian unity, the Holy
See said
Saturday.

The delegation - including Metropolitan Amfilohije, bishops Irinej,
Lavrentije and others - will be at the Vatican from Monday to next
Saturday.
The Eastern and Western Christian churches drifted apart in 1054,
split
over a dispute on papal authority.
Relations between the Roman Catholic and the Serbian Orthodox
churches were
strained during more than five decades of communist rule in
Yugoslavia, and
grew worse under former President Slobodan Milosevic.

Pope John Paul II has made the improvement of relations a goal of
his
papacy. Papal envoy Cardinal Walter Kasper visited Serbia in May.

The Serbian delegation will meet with the pope on Thursday, and with
other
top Vatican officials throughout the trip.
The Serbian Orthodox Church released a statement Saturday, denying
accusations by hardliners that the visit to Vatican was a sign of
servility
to the Holy See.
The purpose of going to Vatican is "an exchange of views, with
mutual
respect, about many issues about which we may even disagree," the
statement
said, adding that "our delegation is certainly not going to Rome to
just
passively listen."
Most of Yugoslavia's 10 million people are Serbian Orthodox
Christians, but
the country also contains sizable Catholic and Muslim communities.
Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2003, 02:02:53 PM »

<<The purpose of going to Vatican is "an exchange of views, with
mutual
respect, about many issues about which we may even disagree," the
statement
said, adding that "our delegation is certainly not going to Rome to
just passively listen.">>

One wonders why all the Orthodox delegations from whatever country *must go to Rome* and be on Rome's home territory rather than the other way around.  Why not invite some of the representatives of Rome, including the Pope if he wants to, to come to the host Orthodox country for these talks, if they are so necessary?  Are the trips *to* Rome just to give John Paul II another opportunity for a photo op and another concelebrated ecumenical service to chalk-up with the Orthodox?  Would the Pope be invited to take part in the Orthodox Divine Liturgy by actively concelebrating in the Liturgy of the Catechumens in an Orthodox country, do you think?  (Now I *am* being sarcastic!)

Hypo-Ortho
Logged
sinjinsmythe
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 737



« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2003, 02:26:08 PM »

<<The purpose of going to Vatican is "an exchange of views, with
mutual
respect, about many issues about which we may even disagree," the
statement
said, adding that "our delegation is certainly not going to Rome to
just passively listen.">>

One wonders why all the Orthodox delegations from whatever country *must go to Rome* and be on Rome's home territory rather than the other way around.  Why not invite some of the representatives of Rome, including the Pope if he wants to, to come to the host Orthodox country for these talks, if they are so necessary?  Are the trips *to* Rome just to give John Paul II another opportunity for a photo op and another concelebrated ecumenical service to chalk-up with the Orthodox?  Would the Pope be invited to take part in the Orthodox Divine Liturgy by actively concelebrating in the Liturgy of the Catechumens in an Orthodox country, do you think?  (Now I *am* being sarcastic!)

Hypo-Ortho

I think it comes down to being a photo.  Also, I think a bit of it has to do with Rome thinking itself as superior to all the churches, so they must come there instead of Rome going to them.
Logged

Life is just one disappointment after another.
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2003, 02:55:21 PM »

[Are the trips *to* Rome just to give John Paul II another opportunity for a photo op and another concelebrated ecumenical service to chalk-up with the Orthodox? ]

Probably!  Hopefully the proposed beatification of Cardinal Stepinac will be brought up.  Also, one wonders what or how ROCOR will react to this ecumenical pilgrimage!

Orthodoc
Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
Amadeus
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 268


I'm a llama!


« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2003, 03:01:57 PM »

Dear Friends:


The Serbian Orthodox delegation is now in Rome for the 6-day visit, with the following highlights:

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=33477


AmdG
Logged
The young fogey
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,709


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2003, 03:07:28 PM »

No surprise here — I think it’s good news and that the Orthodox delegation aren’t doing anything wrong from the Orthodox POV.

ROCOR sent observers to Vatican II.
Logged

Amadeus
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 268


I'm a llama!


« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2003, 03:40:33 PM »

Dear Friends:


It could also be a reciprocal courtesy on the part of the Belgrade Patriarchate for the visit of Cardinal Kasper to Serbia last May.

In a related story, Cardinal Kasper is set to visit Athens later this week on the invitation of the Greek Orthodox Church, issued through His Eminence, Archbishop Christodoulos:

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=33353

Thank God, the hierarchs of our respective Churches are, at last, talking with each other!


AmdG
Logged
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2003, 03:58:32 PM »

[In a related story, Cardinal Kasper is set to visit Athens later this week on the invitation of the Greek Orthodox Church, issued through His Eminence, Archbishop Christodoulos:]

Isn't this the same guy that made a public statement just a month so ago that the ORTHODOX CHURCH DOES NOT EXIST or something to that effect?


Also, if the the following two items contained in the EWTN release are true, how will ROCOR justify it?

From the EWTN release -

------
The visit will start with a prayer in St. Peter's Basilica.

The delegation will participate in the liturgical celebration on February 7 that will be presided over by Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, prefect of the Congregation for Bishops, at St. Paul's Outside-the-Walls to celebrate the 35th anniversary of the founding of the Sant'Egidio community.

------

Isn't ROCOR  the one that is always concemning other Orthodox for praying with heretics and the EP for serving with the heretics?

In fact, isn't that the very reason they give for not being 'in communion with' other Orthodox.  Except for the Serbian Orthodox and Jerusalem Patriarch!  

It will be interesting to hear their comments on this.

Orthodoc


Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
Amadeus
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 268


I'm a llama!


« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2003, 04:22:40 PM »

Dear Orthodoc:

You observed:

_______________________________________________

Isn't this the same guy that made a public statement just a month so ago that the ORTHODOX CHURCH DOES NOT EXIST or something to that effect?
_______________________________________________

Yes, he is the same Cardinal Kasper.

However, I believe his statement was intended to be understood in the context that, currently, World Orthodoxy does not possess a single and unified institutional hierarchy to which the Catholic Church can address ecumenical concerns and which could bind the "entire" Orthodox Church.

As it stands today, Cardinal Kasper, who heads the ecumenical thrust of the Vatican, has to interact with separate Orthodox Churches as shown by his visits to Greece and Serbia, and by the Pope's visits to Rumania, Bulgaria, and other Orthodox countries/Churches.

Cardinal Kasper and the Pope both know that the Eastern Church exists.

Only, they are strewn into various, sometimes conflicting,  jurisdictions.


AmdG



Logged
Amadeus
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 268


I'm a llama!


« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2003, 01:04:59 PM »

Dear Friends:


In his meeting with the hierarchs from the Belgrade Patriarchate, Pope John Paul II said that Catholics and Orthodox should recognize and build upon "their common tradition."  

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=33610

Up to what extent is this held in Orthodoxy?


AmdG
Logged
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2003, 01:40:18 PM »

[In his meeting with the hierarchs from the Belgrade Patriarchate, Pope John Paul II said that Catholics and Orthodox should recognize and build upon "their common tradition."  

Up to what extent is this held in Orthodoxy?]

It depends upon what he means when he say "THEIR COMMON TRADITION".  Since the Orthodox Catholics have been saying this all along.

To an Orthodox Catholic that means going back to what we shared prior to the schism when we were both undivided members of the 'One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church' and build from there.  It also means that any addition, change, or subtraction to the doctines of the faith made by Rome will have to be eliminated in order to once again share that 'common tradition.  
It does not mean that in order to save face for the RCC, we will expect the Orthodox to delclare all those doctrines we have added or changed as theologomenia and justify it with the buzz words 'as it is understood within the Eastern Christian context .

It  also means the Pope himself will have to give up all the self procalimed titles his predecessors  bestowed upon themselves after the schism.

The Pope knows exactly what has to be done.  He has been told time and time again.  This is just another PR play as I see it.

Orthodoc

Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2003, 01:43:55 PM »

Dear Friends:


In his meeting with the hierarchs from the Belgrade Patriarchate, Pope John Paul II said that Catholics and Orthodox should recognize and build upon "their common tradition."  

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=33610

Up to what extent is this held in Orthodoxy?


AmdG

Amadeus, my friend, what are you talking about?  The "common tradition" of RCism and Holy Orthodoxy existed until the Great Schism of 1054 AD.  The Orthodox Church has kept, even under persecution, and still keeps this Holy Tradition intact *without* addition, diminution or alteration.  Rome, OTOH, has made several post-Schism additions, e.g., Papal Infallibility, to the received common Tradition, additions which are not recognized by the Orthodox.

Hypo-Ortho
Logged
Amadeus
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 268


I'm a llama!


« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2003, 01:51:11 PM »

Dear Orthodoc:


I do not think the Pope's statement is "just another PR play."

It has grave implications in the current re-shaping of Europe into a "secular"  continent, where the "reformers" are conveniently forgetting that it was shaped by Christian values.

AmdG

Logged
jude
Guest
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2003, 02:17:15 PM »

For unity to become a reality, it must be based on Orthodox Truth, not on political or social contingencies. Every false union in the past was just that--political or social in nature--and each failed miserably.

All the Orthodox desire is for the Roman Patriarchate to return to the family it unilaterally deserted a millenium ago.

"When in my wretchedness I ran away from your fatherly love, I squandered in wickedness the riches You had given me. And so now, like the Prodigal Son, I cry out to You: 'I have sinned in your sight, O Merciful Father: receive me now that I repent and make me as one of your hired servants.'"

---Kontakion of the Prodigal.

Jude
« Last Edit: February 07, 2003, 02:38:46 PM by jude the obscure » Logged
jude
Guest
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2003, 08:12:13 AM »

There is Tradition and then there are traditions....

Considering the fact that the Orthodox--as opposed to Catholics--have never 'dogmatized' about the role of the papacy within the Church--and in light of the history of Catholicism since both Vatican I and Vatican II--the Orthodox might very well decide to ascribe a lesser future role to the papacy than that ascribed to it during the first millenium of Christianity.

Jude
« Last Edit: February 08, 2003, 08:19:51 AM by jude the obscure » Logged
Mexican
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria
Posts: 489


« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2003, 07:21:41 PM »

Well, before Vatican II Catholics and Orthodoxox shared a lot of things in the liturgical tradition, even if the rites were different.
Logged
Tags: Serbian Orthodox 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.067 seconds with 43 queries.