OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 25, 2014, 02:52:19 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Mary, and Catholic Miracles  (Read 1474 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
catholickid
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 40

Totus Tuus Maria


« on: May 12, 2005, 02:35:10 PM »

What do Orthodox think about Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe? (particularly the image of Guadalupe which has baffled scientists.)

Also what do Orthodox think about incorruptible bodies of certain Saints in the Catholic church?
Logged
Sabbas
Drink from your own wells
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 503

St. Glicherie True Orthodox Church of Romania


« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2005, 08:38:52 PM »

I view the visions at Fatima as false and possibly satanically inspired. My grandmother took them extremely seriously and honestly believed, along with several others, that the world was going to end in 1962. This date was a biproduct of people trying to interpret the visions obviously but it shows you how seriously she believed in them. From what I have read I think there was a lot of mass hysteria involved and the visions themselves seem to leave themselves open as many demonically inspired visions do. For these reasons I do not believe them and I think I speak for the majority of Orthodox on this.
As for Lourdes I really don't know.
I do believe something amazing happened at Guadalupe but I am not sure.
There are some Orthodox that definitely believe the Guadalupe Icon of the Mother of God to be a miracle. It is a lot like the miraculous icons of Orthodoxy such as the Tikhvin Icon or the Kursk Root Icon. The Mother of God has granted us many miraculous icons for our help so I do not see why she would not do such a thing in Guadalupe but I remain slightly skeptical.

As for RC saints (western saints after schism) who were found incorruptible I don't know either. I have heard some studies that found a lot of the bodies of the preserved saints in Italy had high concentrations of lead which partly explains the lack of decomposition.

What you should consider is that none of the RC saints would have liked what is going on right now in the Catholic church. The late Mother Teresa said, after she took a trip around the world, that what she saw that bothered her most was seeing so many people taking communion in their hands! When I first converted to Orthodoxy I briefly considered that I might be wrong and that RC is the way to go. But the Roman church is not even the church it was after the schism, it is not the church of Vatican I, and now it is barely different from Protestantism. Ultimately I came to see that at the heart of the problem is the false beliefs clung to in RC. While I do sympathize with the Latin Mass societies such as Una Voce and SSPX I think Vatican II should be viewed as a big wake up call that the ship has already sunk and you are drowning.
Logged

www.hungersite.com  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  www.freedonation.com you can donate up to 20 times at freedonation.  http://www.pomog.org/ has online 1851 Sir Lancelot C.L. Brenton English translation of Septuagint.http://www.cnrs.ubc.ca/greekbible/ Original Koine Septuagint and New Testament.
Hadel
IN CHRIST
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Jerusalem
Posts: 275


Jesus Christ Our Lord, King of Kings


« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2005, 05:48:29 AM »

What ever faith and religion you are it does not matter...as long as the apparitions and miracles are in the name of the Holy Father, the Son of God, and in the Holy Spirit then I believe.... However, in this site, you will find alot of judgements and anger.

In Christ and the Truth,
Hadel
Logged

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
Tallitot
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Jewish
Jurisdiction: United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Posts: 2,573



WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2005, 06:37:27 AM »

this link has an article on an orthodox view of recent apparitions:http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/marian_apparitions.aspx

of course this is only the author's opinion
Logged

Proverbs 22:7
catholickid
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 40

Totus Tuus Maria


« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2005, 09:48:09 AM »

 
I view the visions at Fatima as false and possibly satanically inspired. My grandmother took them extremely seriously and honestly believed, along with several others, that the world was going to end in 1962. This date was a biproduct of people trying to interpret the visions obviously but it shows you how seriously she believed in them. From what I have read I think there was a lot of mass hysteria involved and the visions themselves seem to leave themselves open as many demonically inspired visions do. For these reasons I do not believe them and I think I speak for the majority of Orthodox on this.

What you should consider is that none of the RC saints would have liked what is going on right now in the Catholic church. The late Mother Teresa said, after she took a trip around the world, that what she saw that bothered her most was seeing so many people taking communion in their hands! When I first converted to Orthodoxy I briefly considered that I might be wrong and that RC is the way to go. But the Roman church is not even the church it was after the schism, it is not the church of Vatican I, and now it is barely different from Protestantism. Ultimately I came to see that at the heart of the problem is the false beliefs clung to in RC. While I do sympathize with the Latin Mass societies such as Una Voce and SSPX I think Vatican II should be viewed as a big wake up call that the ship has already sunk and you are drowning.

Today, the Catholic Feast Day of Our Lady of Fatima, let me talk a little about it. IT NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THE WORLD ENDING! It was a call to Pennance and Fasting in order to make reperations for sins against Her Immaculate Heart, and the Sacred Heart Jesus. She promised the fall of Communism- thats what people twisted. Protestants twist the Bible and cause hysteria (ever heard of Left Behind, its based on Revelations, the Prots think its actually going to happen- soon) but we still Believe the Bible is Inspired by God.

(After I made my post the other day I got home and watched an EWTN program about Fatima and it said Russian Patriarchs came to the Consecration of Russia and the World in 1985, when they heard about the first apparition of the Angel and the Eucharist, they were joyful to see how the Fatima children prostrated themselves before the Eucharist the same way that is custom in the Russian Orthodox Church.)

About the state of the Faith... read my post http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/newboard/index.php/topic,6125.0.html
Logged
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2005, 10:31:46 AM »

I will only speak for the so called Fatima appearance. From my files, here is a reply I gave in another religious discussion group concerning Fatima -

=========

[The "Immaculata" is one of the titles of Mary from the visions of Our Lady of Fatima, who promised that, If Russia were consecrated to her, Russia would be freed from the Communists and from the yoke of Communism. And, wasn't Kremlin not being used as a church, but as the symbol of the Communist Party?]

This statement in itself shows the absurdity of such a proclaimation by the the Theotokos.

Both Scripture and tradition tell us that Mary was chosen for two tasks -

1) To be the instrument whereby God became man (the Incarnation)
2) To spend the rest of her life pointing others towards her son.

And you want us to believe that she appeared to some children in Fatima requesting that Russia be CONSECRATED TO HER instead of her son! Thereby putting herself above her son in importance? And pointing to herself instead of her son?

Facts regarding Mary And Her Centuries Ties To Russia -

Russia has been traditionally known as "the House of Holy Mary", and
God's Mother has been regarded as the holy protectress of Russia for
centuries. There were more churches devoted to Her Nativity,
Presentation, Annunciation, Assumption, and Intercession than to
important events from the life of Christ. Many more churches were
built to honour the holy images of God's Mother, such as "Our Lady of
Vladimir", "Our Lady of Smolensk", and "Our Lady of Kazan".

The cult of God's Mother was introduced to Russia by Andrei
Bogolyubski who brought to his new capital the Byzantine icon "Our
Lady of Vladimir". During the most important events of Russian
history, such as the Polish invasion of 1612 or the French invasion of
1812, numerous prayers for victory were offered to this and other
important images of God's Mother. Even the Russian tricolour flag,
first introduced in 1667, was modeled after the traditional colours of
her clothes.

At the beginning of the 20th centuries, strange things started to
happen with holy icons. "Our Mother of Kazan" was stolen from the
Kazan monastery and was apparently burnt by thieves to ashes; "Our
Mother of Smolensk" (or the Hodegetria) started to "cry" with resin
(the icon perished during the WWII). The Fyodorovskaya icon of God's
Mother at Kostroma's Ipatievsky Monastery was considered the holy
protectress of the Romanov family: the first Romanov tsar's mother
blessed him for the reign with this icon. This holy image (said to be
painted by Apostle Luke but dated by analysis only to the 9th century)
started to blacken from 1911 on, and by 1917 it became so black that
almost nothing could be seen on it. Other divine images were
scattered: "Our Lady of Vladimir" and the Blachernitissa (made in the
7th century from the ashes of Christian martyrs) are exhibited at the
Tretyakov Gallery, "Our Lady of Tikhvin" is now in Chicago, and only
the tragic masterpiece "Our Lady of Tolga" (1314) was yesterday
(22-Aug-2003) returned to the Tolga Convent at Yaroslavl.

Our Lady of Vladimir:
www.pbs.org/weta/faceofrussia/...e/1100/12c.html
Our Lady of Kostroma ("Fyodorovskaya", after the restoration):
www.aquarium.ru:8080/misc/icon...orovsk_kost.jpg
Our Lady of Blachernae:
www.aquarium.ru:8080/misc/icon...033_vlahern.jpg
Our Lady of Tolga:
www.aquarium.ru:8080/misc/icon.../022_tolgsk.jpg

++++++++++++

So it seems, if we were to believe that the supposed promises of the Theotokos were true, we'd have to assume that she was unaware of the fierce devotion the Russians have had for her for over a thousand years! That her miraculous Icons (one copy was being used as a bargaining tool for the Popes entrance to Russia) are all fables!

Russia already has more churches dedicated to her than all of western Europe combined!

We Orthdox Catholics belive that Mary was chosen by God himself to be the tool which made the Incarnation possible. After Christs birth she spend her entire life directing others towards her Son rather than herself. And now she appears threatening the world if Russia isn't dedicated to her and her so called Immaculate Heart! A little out of character for the greatest of all women, and what she was chosen by God to fulfill, don't you think?

==========

Orthodoc
« Last Edit: May 13, 2005, 10:33:30 AM by Orthodoc » Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
catholickid
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 40

Totus Tuus Maria


« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2005, 11:49:34 AM »

"Total Consecration to Jesus Through Mary" by St. Louis Marie De Monfort

I recomend reading it.
Logged
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2005, 02:24:07 PM »

"Total Consecration to Jesus Through Mary" by St. Louis Marie De Monfort

I recomend reading it.

No need to.  I stand by what I wrote.  You cannot convince me the Theotokos would appear by identifying herself by a purely papal Catholic doctrine and demand that Russia be dedicated to her so called Immaculate Heart rather than to her son.  We Orthodox Catholics get a little weary whenever the Blessed Mother seems  makes an appearance every time a new papal Catholic doctine is proclaimed to verify it.

Orthodoc
Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
Rilian
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 98

OC.net


« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2005, 03:03:58 PM »

Why would anyone in the RCC care what we think about these things?

I don't understand that.
Logged
Tags: Theotokos 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.064 seconds with 36 queries.