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Author Topic: abortion and conversion  (Read 2551 times) Average Rating: 0
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rosemarie
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« on: May 11, 2005, 11:53:39 PM »

I've been discussing Orthodoxy with a friend who is interested in converting but is worried she would not be allowed because of having had an abortion many years ago.  Would having an abortion before coming to the faith bar someone's admittance?  I told her that I'm sure lots of former murderers, etc. have converted, but I need a little help on this one.
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eleni
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2005, 12:50:39 AM »

Hi Rosemarie....
Christos Anesti.....Christ is Risen....


Someone correct me if Im wrong......but abortion is a big sin and I would say that speaking to a spiritual Father about this...
I dont see how one cannot come to the Truth of Orthodoxy because of sin.....sin is why Christ came  and He welcomed all mankind to follow Him....

I would again suggest that your friend speak to a Father or a Presbitera(wife of the Priest) if it seems more easier to speak about such things.....
We all take things for granted ..some more then others because we dont stop to think of the consequences that can occur...
I hope and pray for your friend to seek the help that she asks for....
God is a just Judge and no sin is too great for God......again this must be done with the help and guidence of your spiritual father....
Take care..
in Christ helen..
Christ is Risen...

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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2005, 01:51:01 AM »

  If your friend is bared from the Church because of past sin- we're all done for.     :flame:   Evil
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2005, 01:56:05 AM »

Yup. If anything, the Church would welcome her so that she may find peace, healing, and forgiveness for any past or future sins for which she is repentant. Christ is the great Physician, and He brings solace to all.
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2005, 02:23:15 AM »

Mark 2:16-17
And the scribes and the Pharisees, seeing him eating with sinners and tax-gatherers, said to his disciples, Why [is it] that he eats and drinks with tax-gatherers and sinners? And Jesus having heard [it] says to them, They that are strong have not need of a physician, but those who are ill. I have not come to call righteous [men], but sinners.

Rosemarie, your friend will be most welcome to join the Orthodox church, for if the church had a policy of turning away sinners, our temples would be empty. There are saints in the church who were once murderers, pirates and prostitutes but have since become holy people worthy of our awe and veneration. The Orthodox church is precisely where your friend needs to be for the healing of her soul.

Christ is Risen!
John
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Tikhon29605
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2005, 05:16:26 AM »

This is why we have the Sacrament of Confession. The Church does not expect everyone that comes to Her to be perfect. There is forgiveness for the sin of abortion too.
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Fr. David
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2005, 06:46:44 AM »

The fortieth chapter of Isaiah is a wonderful example of the Lord's comfort; may your friend find this type of a Spirit when she comes to the Church:

Isaiah 40

   1Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

   2Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins.

   3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

   4Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

   5And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

   6The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

   7The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

   8The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

   9O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!

   10Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

   11He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

   12Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

   13Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?

   14With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?

   15Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.

   16And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.

   17All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.

   18To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

   19The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.

   20He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.

   21Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

   22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

   23That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.

   24Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

   25To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.

   26Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

   27Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God?

   28Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

   29He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

   30Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:

   31But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2005, 09:28:57 AM »

rosemarie, if she is repentant she will be welcomed with open arms.  In fact, she will find true healing there.
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rosemarie
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« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2005, 09:35:26 AM »

Dear friends,

Christ has risen!  Grin

Thank you for your responses one and all.  I'll print them out and give them to her today.  I told her that I was certain that all repentant sinners were welcome, but now she'll see that it is not just my wishful thinking on her behalf.

Pedro--mil gracias por la cita tan maravillosa.  De veras el Senor tiene ambos el poder y el deseo de perdonarnos todo!

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Fr. David
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« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2005, 09:52:55 PM »

Pedro--mil gracias por la cita tan maravillosa.  De veras el Senor tiene ambos el poder y el deseo de perdonarnos todo!

Well, all RIGHT!!   Grin  Siempre me encanta conocer a otro miembro del foro que es hispanoparlante.  (Si quisieras participar en el foro en espa+¦ol all+í abajo (est+í m+ís o menos muerto ahora, pero se resucita de vez en cuando) ser+¡as beinvenida).
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jayjay
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2005, 11:51:19 PM »


We have all sinned. There is only one unpardonable sin, and that is blaspheming the holy spirit (if I'm not wrong on this). God forgives all our sins when we come to him with a repentant spirit. God came into the world to forgive sinners. He forgave those who crucified him. He forgave me, and I'm a vile, evil, wicked person. Many would say they have done worse things than your friend has, and no matter what, God still forgives us. He doesn't have to, but he loves us and wants us to have fellowship with him. He loves us no matter what we have done. "Come unto me all ye who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" I'll pray for your friend that she finds forgiveness and healing.
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2005, 01:09:28 PM »

I know several people who have had abortions, and are now Orthodox.  Sadly I know a few women who've had them while already being Orthodox, but that is a complete other kettle of fish.
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2005, 01:34:42 PM »

Rosemarie, Lord did not come to call righteous to aks for mercy, but sinners.

God is Love. Real Love. More Love than Love itself. Even more than that.

Tell her, tell everyone... LORD IS LOVE.

Everyone is welcome.

Lord have mercy on us all.
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Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2005, 02:47:01 PM »

Mind you, one other point that everyone forgot to point out...seeing how she's not Orthodox now, how about the Sins of Blasphemy and Heresy that she has probably lived in her whole life. Not that Abortion isn't a terrible thing, but in comparison to these offences, it's, well, relatively minor. If God can forgive Crimes directly against Himself and His Church, I dont see how there can even be a question as to whether or not he'd forgive sins against man.
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