Author Topic: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide  (Read 2039 times)

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Offline wainscottbl

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For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« on: September 13, 2014, 02:23:36 PM »
So one of the people I subscribe to on YouTube, a lovely British comedian like many comedians here reveals her personal struggle with anxiety and depression. In light of Robin Williams death, may he rest in peace, here is a good video to watch. She has another channel with plenty of comedy that might be nice to subscribe to since laughter is the best medicine. But nevertheless on a serious note

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Cp4RZMsMM

And remember that there are people who care about you and that harming yourself harms them.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
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Offline WPM

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2014, 04:07:06 PM »
The best way to recover is to learn to cope with reality. I think people who do this are wanting to "escape" ...
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Offline JamesR

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2014, 04:11:45 PM »
The best way to recover is to learn to cope with reality. I think people who do this are wanting to "escape" ...

You realize that depression is a real medical condition and that there can be real underlying psychological factors as to why people self harm or off themselves? Your post would be akin to telling a cancer patient that the best way to recover is to learn to cope with their condition, when in reality it requires real treatment both clinically and spiritually.

Offline wainscottbl

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2014, 04:15:45 PM »
The best way to recover is to learn to cope with reality. I think people who do this are wanting to "escape" ...

You realize that depression is a real medical condition and that there can be real underlying psychological factors as to why people self harm or off themselves? Your post would be akin to telling a cancer patient that the best way to recover is to learn to cope with their condition, when in reality it requires real treatment both clinically and spiritually.

Yeah there are spiritual means but I've heard some Christians say psychology is not real and just see a priest. It is true that religion helps, but there a chemical imbalances involved and everything. And even regarding the way of thinking, therapy is what is meant to help correct that way. One can't just correct it over night. I don't know why some people think Christianity exists in some sort of magical vacuum.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
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Offline Maria

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2014, 04:17:55 PM »
The best way to recover is to learn to cope with reality. I think people who do this are wanting to "escape" ...

There is no escape from God and eternity. Life goes on but it is changed forever.

While we have life and breath, we must trust in God, repent, and pray fervently that we may be saved.

Quote from: JamesR
Yeah there are spiritual means but I've heard some Christians say psychology is not real and just see a priest. It is true that religion helps, but there a chemical imbalances involved and everything. And even regarding the way of thinking, therapy is what is meant to help correct that way. One can't just correct it over night. I don't know why some people think Christianity exists in some sort of magical vacuum.


If our chemistry is mixed up, perhaps it is the food we eat, the air we breathe, and water we drink. Chemical pollution affects us and can mess with our bodies and brains.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline wainscottbl

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2014, 04:18:06 PM »
The best way to recover is to learn to cope with reality. I think people who do this are wanting to "escape" ...

And since I only know her for her comedy this was interesting to see. She is not trying to escape but help people. She did this out of a desire to help others. She worked hard on the video. Don't accuse her of trying to escape. She offers laughter to a lot of people, which is her way of escaping. The healthy way. But there comes a time to be serious. The Robin Williams tragedy reminded us of that.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2014, 04:22:11 PM »
The best way to recover is to learn to cope with reality. I think people who do this are wanting to "escape" ...

Of course people want to escape. The rabbit seeks to escape the trap. How can you blame them?

St. Paul promises God is faithful to offer "a way to escape"; however, what this is it is not easy to say. All I know, at this point in my life, is that there are no fitter words of response to the world's horror than the "Lord, have mercy" the Church has taught me.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2014, 04:25:49 PM »
The best way to recover is to learn to cope with reality. I think people who do this are wanting to "escape" ...

There is no escape from God and eternity. Life goes on but it is changed forever.

While we have life and breath, we must trust in God, repent, and pray fervently that we may be saved.

Quote from: JamesR
Yeah there are spiritual means but I've heard some Christians say psychology is not real and just see a priest. It is true that religion helps, but there a chemical imbalances involved and everything. And even regarding the way of thinking, therapy is what is meant to help correct that way. One can't just correct it over night. I don't know why some people think Christianity exists in some sort of magical vacuum.


If our chemistry is mixed up, perhaps it is the food we eat, the air we breathe, and water we drink. Chemical pollution affects us and can mess with our bodies and brains.



Yes, but it's not just the GMO foods, though I think that's a bigger factor than many people want to admit. Still therapy, and even medicine, is important. Most of all therapy because medicine should be a means to an end. We see the danger anti-depressants post in regards to people going into psychotic states--in the clinical sense of the word, like shooting rampages. And yes, maybe they were disturbed before but in a small percentage of people psychosis happens. And it's because we've become to medicated. The therapist I saw said she prefers therapy as a first means. Prayer can help. In fact Jung said his religious patients were healthier than the ones who did not have a spiritual means to cope with their problems. To him religion was to be a part of therapy if possible because people needed something beautiful and transcended to aid them, as I am sure JamesR agrees.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
                                                             -Aristotle



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Offline WPM

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2014, 04:31:42 PM »
The best way to recover is to learn to cope with reality. I think people who do this are wanting to "escape" ...

You realize that depression is a real medical condition and that there can be real underlying psychological factors as to why people self harm or off themselves? Your post would be akin to telling a cancer patient that the best way to recover is to learn to cope with their condition, when in reality it requires real treatment both clinically and spiritually.

You can go to Psychiatrist and get Medicine as well.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 04:33:27 PM by WPM »
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Offline Georgii

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2014, 04:41:22 PM »
I have a history of clinical depression and have habitually committed the sin of despondency. Saying where one ends and the other begins is a major mystery, and I keep coming back to the New Testament story of the man born blind: Neither this man or his parents sinned, but that the works of God might be revealed in him.

I thank God that I have never been acutely suicidal, although like most people I do have some chronic self-destructive habits (in other words, I am a sinner).

Despite being a bit of an armchair gun geek, I don't own any guns and I know very well that I need to own a gun like I need a hole in the head, quite literally. That much cooperation/synergy is the least I can do, seeing how much God has done for me.

 
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2014, 04:58:51 PM »
So one of the people I subscribe to on YouTube, a lovely British comedian like many comedians here reveals her personal struggle with anxiety and depression. In light of Robin Williams death, may he rest in peace, here is a good video to watch. She has another channel with plenty of comedy that might be nice to subscribe to since laughter is the best medicine. But nevertheless on a serious note

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Cp4RZMsMM

And remember that there are people who care about you and that harming yourself harms them.

It's a good video.  Very practical advice and very important subject.  I am very saddened when I hear Christians say you don't need the doctor or the therapist.  That to me is one of the most unhealthy things you can do to both a person in need of these means of treatment as well as unhealthy to your role in spirituality.
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If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2014, 05:26:37 PM »
I have a history of clinical depression and have habitually committed the sin of despondency. Saying where one ends and the other begins is a major mystery, and I keep coming back to the New Testament story of the man born blind: Neither this man or his parents sinned, but that the works of God might be revealed in him.

I thank God that I have never been acutely suicidal, although like most people I do have some chronic self-destructive habits (in other words, I am a sinner).

Despite being a bit of an armchair gun geek, I don't own any guns and I know very well that I need to own a gun like I need a hole in the head, quite literally. That much cooperation/synergy is the least I can do, seeing how much God has done for me.

 

Lord have mercy.

I fell into the sin of despondency while I was a catechumen. Once the Priest explained that it is God who forgives us, not the prayer of absolution, then I quickly recovered. The prayer of absolution according to Fr. Alexander Schmemann is neither magic, nor does it forgive an unrepentant heart. If we are repentant, God will forgive us. The prayer of absolution is only a sign and a witness of that forgiveness.

http://www.amazon.com/For-Life-World-Sacraments-Orthodoxy/dp/0913836087

EDITED TO ADD: My priest told me that I had a bad case of "stinking theology." He had me read a library of Orthodox Christian books to cure my soul.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 05:33:23 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline biro

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2014, 05:29:21 PM »
I have long struggled with bipolar disorder.  :-\
My only weakness is, well, never mind

He said he had a horrible house
I looked in it and learnt to shut my mouth

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

London is drowning, and I live by the river

Offline Maria

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2014, 05:31:11 PM »
I have long struggled with bipolar disorder.  :-\

Lord have mercy.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2014, 05:32:00 PM »
Thank you.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

He said he had a horrible house
I looked in it and learnt to shut my mouth

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

London is drowning, and I live by the river

Offline minasoliman

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2014, 05:33:36 PM »
I have long struggled with bipolar disorder.  :-\

May God strengthen you.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2014, 05:34:30 PM »
Thank you.

You are welcome. I will keep you in my prayers.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline biro

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2014, 05:45:55 PM »
Much appreciated.

My only weakness is, well, never mind

He said he had a horrible house
I looked in it and learnt to shut my mouth

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

London is drowning, and I live by the river

Offline wainscottbl

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2014, 05:49:49 PM »


Despite being a bit of an armchair gun geek, I don't own any guns and I know very well that I need to own a gun like I need a hole in the head, quite literally. That much cooperation/synergy is the least I can do, seeing how much God has done for me.

 

Yeah I have a friend like that. He is pro-gun but does not feel it is safe for him to own a gun.
The roots of education are bitter, but the fruit is sweet.
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Offline Hamartolos

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2014, 06:11:12 PM »
The best way to recover is to learn to cope with reality. I think people who do this are wanting to "escape" ...

You realize that depression is a real medical condition and that there can be real underlying psychological factors as to why people self harm or off themselves? Your post would be akin to telling a cancer patient that the best way to recover is to learn to cope with their condition, when in reality it requires real treatment both clinically and spiritually.

You can go to Psychiatrist and get Medicine as well.

Ignorant.  First of all, it's a hit or miss if anti-depression/anti-anxiety medication will even work.  Even when it does, the medical field has yet to figure out exactly why it does work.  Often times it makes it worse.  I'd never wish on anybody, including someone looking down those with an affliction like you, the struggle of a chemical imbalance in the brain.  At least with physical problems you can see and treat it.  The brain is a different ballgame and when you can't think straight EVERYTHING is affected.  Every aspect of life is dampened and many times diminished.  Yeah, who wouldn't want to 'escape' from torment 24 hours a day even when they sleep?

Also, most physical problems/diseases can be treated and healed or at least made marginally better relatively quickly.  Those with a disease such as depression usually have the problem for years, even decades with no breaks or remission in between.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 06:13:11 PM by Hamartolos »

Offline Georgii

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2014, 06:34:31 PM »
EDITED TO ADD: My priest told me that I had a bad case of "stinking theology." He had me read a library of Orthodox Christian books to cure my soul.

I'm still not clear about whether we are also obligated to keep silent about what the priest tells us at confession, but at my last confession I said that I had a negative attitude to life, and the priest told me to read two chapters of the Gospel, starting with Matthew, and two chapters starting with Acts, every day. He also said that I must without fail read commentaries on these Scriptures by the Church Fathers (me being an ex-Protestant). The priest said that it was a manual for life. Wisdom!

Sadly, I haven't kept to the schedule, but I do have the Scriptures open in front of me and will read them now.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2014, 06:36:44 PM by Georgii »
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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2014, 06:36:38 PM »
EDITED TO ADD: My priest told me that I had a bad case of "stinking theology." He had me read a library of Orthodox Christian books to cure my soul.

I'm still not clear about whether we are also obligated to keep silent about what the priest tells us at confession, but at my last confession I said that I had a negative attitude to life, and the priest told me to read two chapters of the Gospel, starting with Matthew, and two chapters starting with Acts, every day. He also said that I must without fail also read commentaries on these Scriptures by the Church Fathers (me being an ex-Protestant). The priest said that it was a manual for life. Wisdom!

Sadly, I haven't kept to the schedule, but I do have the Scriptures open in front of me and will read them now.

Funny. I was also told to read the Sermon on the Mount from Saint Matthew every day for six months. He figured that I would have it memorized by that time.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2014, 06:47:20 PM »
So one of the people I subscribe to on YouTube, a lovely British comedian like many comedians here reveals her personal struggle with anxiety and depression. In light of Robin Williams death, may he rest in peace, here is a good video to watch. She has another channel with plenty of comedy that might be nice to subscribe to since laughter is the best medicine. But nevertheless on a serious note

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Cp4RZMsMM

And remember that there are people who care about you and that harming yourself harms them.

wainscottbl, I am watching this a little at a time as I have time - and as I can . . . I'll leave it at that. 

But I wanted to thank you for posting this and for calling to attention that this is serious and life threatening.  We don't hesitate to treat a trauma victim who is inches away from dying. .  . but someone who self harms?  So many define it as something moral instead of ill. 

Thank you again.
In His Mercy,
BethAnna

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2014, 06:53:03 PM »
So one of the people I subscribe to on YouTube, a lovely British comedian like many comedians here reveals her personal struggle with anxiety and depression. In light of Robin Williams death, may he rest in peace, here is a good video to watch. She has another channel with plenty of comedy that might be nice to subscribe to since laughter is the best medicine. But nevertheless on a serious note

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Cp4RZMsMM

And remember that there are people who care about you and that harming yourself harms them.

wainscottbl, I am watching this a little at a time as I have time - and as I can . . . I'll leave it at that. 

But I wanted to thank you for posting this and for calling to attention that this is serious and life threatening.  We don't hesitate to treat a trauma victim who is inches away from dying. .  . but someone who self harms?  So many define it as something moral instead of ill. 

Thank you again.

It is a form of illness, whether spiritual, physical, and/or mental, but Christ is the physician of our souls. He can heal and save us. However, we must fervently repeat over and over again, "Oh Lord, I believe; heal my unbelief."
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2014, 07:16:31 PM »
So one of the people I subscribe to on YouTube, a lovely British comedian like many comedians here reveals her personal struggle with anxiety and depression. In light of Robin Williams death, may he rest in peace, here is a good video to watch. She has another channel with plenty of comedy that might be nice to subscribe to since laughter is the best medicine. But nevertheless on a serious note

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9Cp4RZMsMM

And remember that there are people who care about you and that harming yourself harms them.

It's a good video.  Very practical advice and very important subject.  I am very saddened when I hear Christians say you don't need the doctor or the therapist.  That to me is one of the most unhealthy things you can do to both a person in need of these means of treatment as well as unhealthy to your role in spirituality.

Amen to that.

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Re: For Those Who Harm Themselves or Think of Suicide
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2014, 08:12:38 PM »
Here is part of the Canon to the Theotokos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_6e9T1FpG8

These odes speak of depression, darkness of our passions, confusion, and illnesses that can break our spirit, but with God victory over all illnesses and misfortunes is possible.

Most Holy Theotokos, save us.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.