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Author Topic: 666 the Number of the Beast  (Read 10178 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ntinos
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« on: May 09, 2005, 02:10:26 PM »

Only a few days ago it was announced by the media here in Greece that the electronic CVs will soon be out, and that the authorities will do their best so that we can get the new CVs within the next 6 months.

First of all, there is great concern that the electronic CVs have the number 666 on them. I am not exactly aware of how the number 666 is printed/used in the electronic CVs, but just the thought that this might be an introduction to the seal of the antichrist gets me thinking for a while.
The Church of Greece had similar fears a few years ago, when the idea of electronic CVs was introduced by the European Union, and was accepted by President Simitis. A large fuss was made over the issue, with the Archbishop demanding that the new CVs are not mandatory for everybody. His voice was not heard, however.

I know this is not the seal of the Antichrist, as described in John's Revalations, but I remember not long ago an elder (elder Paissios the Agioreite Monk) mentioned this is an introduction to the seal.

Does anyone know why these electronic CVs are supposed to have the number 666 on them? Does this have any relation to the barcode system?

Also, are there any teachings from Orthodox Church Fathers on what the seal will be like (apart from St. John's in the Revalations)?

Also, about the Barcode system: The whole system uses 3 sixes (if anyone wants, I can explain it afterwards), one of which is in the start, the next in the middle, and the 3rd in the ending of the code. The 3 sixes are essential to the function of the barcode system. This is not a straightforward 666, but rather 6-6-6 (6*****6*****6, where 6 is any number from 0-9). Does this actually count for a 666?
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2005, 02:14:16 PM »

I reject any of them any time.


I hope Huh
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2005, 02:29:21 PM »

Yes. The new CV's will have the numbers 666 electronically embedded in them. This number emits a low level signal which will cause the carrier to subconsciously chant the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Once enough of these CV's get distributed in Greece, this subconscious chanting will creat a harmonic "brain" sound that will eventually call forth the stay-puff marshmallow man. A final stand will be made between good and evil at the Temple of Dianah at Delphi.
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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2005, 02:31:48 PM »

For a moment I thought this would be an Iron Maiden thread.
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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2005, 02:41:32 PM »

  What is a CV?
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Ntinos
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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2005, 02:46:24 PM »

Quote
  What is a CV?

Curriculum Vitae.

Yes. The new CV's will have the numbers 666 electronically embedded in them. This number emits a low level signal which will cause the carrier to subconsciously chant the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Once enough of these CV's get distributed in Greece, this subconscious chanting will creat a harmonic "brain" sound that will eventually call forth the stay-puff marshmallow man. A final stand will be made between good and evil at the Temple of Dianah at Delphi.

You're being ironical of a whole Church, not just me.
And please do not turn this thread into a b^#@$&l.
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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2005, 03:16:36 PM »

Quote
Also, about the Barcode system: The whole system uses 3 sixes (if anyone wants, I can explain it afterwards), one of which is in the start, the next in the middle, and the 3rd in the ending of the code. The 3 sixes are essential to the function of the barcode system. This is not a straightforward 666, but rather 6-6-6 (6*****6*****6, where 6 is any number from 0-9). Does this actually count for a 666?

Urban legend. See here.
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Ntinos
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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2005, 03:19:44 PM »

Heh, the picture next to the explanation says it all...
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2005, 03:22:11 PM »

Quote
You're being ironical of a whole Church, not just me.
And please do not turn this thread into a b^#@$&l.

Yeah! Everybody knows that the Stay-Puft marshamallow man has already been taken by Gozer the Gozerian. When Gozer the Destructor comes again it will be in one of the pre-chosen forms! As was spoken by Vinz Clortho,

Quote
"During the rectification of the Vuldronaii the Traveller came as a very large and moving Torb.  Then of course in the third reconciliation of the last of the Meketrex supplicants they chose a new form for him, that of a Sloar.  Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you."
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2005, 03:47:11 PM »

I'm glad we roasted generic marshmallows at Camp Waconda.  No logo mascot! Wink
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2005, 04:36:39 PM »

Brother Ntinos,

First I have to make a correction: In European Union (and in Greece) will be introduced new Civil IDs for every European citizen. It’s like the insurance number or the driver’s licence that is used in several countries to verify the identity of the holder of the official document in case he is involved in civil business. These IDs will have an electronic signature on them in the form of an electronic chip.

There is a huge pseudo-literature regarding the number 666 and barcode and credit cards and the internet (www=666 in Hebrew numbering, 666 is used in internet protocol that is applied in chat rooms all over the world) that was first introduced in some protestant churches in order to justify their marginal theories. They were eschatological protestant churches that were in need of proof that the end of time is at hand. So they used the ignorance of people and their fair about technology and they started to make a huge conspiracy theory that at one time has misled many people to believe them. Unfortunately several orthodox people were also affected.

As for the reaction of Church of Greece, it was not due to the number 666, but it was due to the fact the government eliminated the record of religion from the civil ID that every Greek citizen is obliged to have. Number 666 had nothing to do with the Church’s reaction.

Now, as for the matter of the number of 666, there is no theological basis that barcodes, credit cards, the internet, civil IDs, are “the seal” that Apostle John refers in Apocalypse.

We must keep in our hearts that there will be images of anti-christ until he actually be in flesh. The “seal” of anti-christ will be his mark on mankind as a sign of power, not as a subconscious use of a hidden symbol.

There only two orthodox Saints that have annotated the book of Apocalypse systematically and they have defined the hidden symbolic meanings.

The first one was St. Andreas, Bishop of Caesarea in Capadocy (5th century). The second one was Arethas, also Bishop of Caesarea (in the end of 6th century). Those two interpretations are the basis for any other orthodox translation since then.

According to their interpretation the name “666” means that Apostle John was instructed not to mention the real name of anti-christ by God, because he did not deserved to be mentioned as a creature with a name - being absolutely impersonal/faceless as a human being. So by their interpetation, it is vain to try to resolve its meaning. They say that the true meaning of the anti-christ’s name will be literaly:“deny”. His seal will say: “I deny the maker of the heaven and earth, I deny the baptism, I deny Christian worship, and I believe in you anti-christ”.

We must have in mind that “666” was mentioned as the name/number of anti-christ. In the original text of apocalypse this name/number is calculated to be a human number written as a Greek number: -ç++-é’

In the tradition of the Church the meaning of this number is that the anti-crist has a name that deletes the name of Christ. You see, in Greek the name of Christ is -ç-ü+¦-â-ä-î-é. If you take this word and you cross it of by making a mark of a snake over it, by making the mark of greek letter ++, you take as a result instead of the Greek word -ç-ü+¦-â-ä-î-é the Greek word -ç++-é that is calculated as the number 666 in Greek arithmetic semantics. It’s like anti-christ will make an effort to sponge out entirely everything that reminds of Christ on Earth, and his name will be according to his work.

We must have in our hearts that the text of Apocalypse is never used in liturgy. Never. The content of Apocalypse is only pictured in graphic icons in the walls of churches. This is not to be taken in light heart. There is a reason for this omission of oral reference to Apocalypse in the liturgy. Apocalypse has not only a transcendental meaning but is also expressed in a transcendental language. There is no way to include this language in everyday normal use, not even at the time of worship.  

Nevertheless Apocalypse is not absent from the Orthodox worship, as the throne of the bishop in the back of the Altar, with the thrones from both sides, the Altar itself, and the Lamp on the altar are also in the Apocalypse (3:2-11,5:6-14,6:9-19). The presence of Holy Relics under the Altar and the candles over the Altar are also to be found in Apocalypse (5:9). The contrapuntal way of chant is also to be found in Apocalypse (4:8-11, 5:9, 6:9).
« Last Edit: May 09, 2005, 04:48:49 PM by lpap » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2005, 04:56:28 PM »

Recent discoveries by archeologists indicate that "666" may not be the number of the beast after all:
http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2005, 05:07:50 PM »

Quote
Recent discoveries by archeologists indicate that "666" may not be the number of the beast after all:

I read about this somewhere else also but forgot where. Actually, 666 is the number of the Beast. I beleive Nero Ceaser, the great persecutor of the 1st century church fits this description to a tee. In Hebrew, Nero Caesar is nrwn qsr, which adds up to 666. However, since John wrote for a Greek-speaking audience, and considering he obviously thought in Hebrew, his readers may not have been familiar with the Hebrew rendering of Nero's name. It has been suggested that a copyist altered it to read 616, which is nrw qsr, which name would have been easily recognized by his readers. Since Nero's name fits both ways, the conclusion therefore is that Nero was very likely the Beast that John wrote of & considering all the immediate "time factors" in revelations having an 1st century audience in mind it's very pluasable.
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2005, 05:17:42 PM »

Quote
In the tradition of the Church the meaning of this number is that the anti-crist has a name that deletes the name of Christ.  You see, in Greek the name of Christ is -ç-ü+¦-â-ä-î-é. If you take this word and you cross it of by making a mark of a snake over it, by making the mark of greek letter ++, you take as a result instead of the Greek word -ç-ü+¦-â-ä-î-é the Greek word -ç++-é that is calculated as the number 666 in Greek arithmetic semantics. It’s like anti-christ will make an effort to sponge out entirely everything that reminds of Christ on Earth, and his name will be according to his work.

The text shown in this page http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm as suggested by our friend Crucifer (if it is a real finding) seems to agree with what you say about -ç++-é, since it is also visible like the way you suggest it. However, I have one objection: Revalations suggest it is a number, not a name or a symbol. The -ç++-é has to be a number, because it is not only mentioned in one part, but rather in 2 or 3 parts that the Beast has a number, a human number. The description is pretty clear: the Beast has a human number.

I believe that when the time comes, it will be visible that the number of the antichrist man will be 666.


Quote
Recent discoveries by archeologists indicate that "666" may not be the number of the beast after all:
http://www.csad.ox.ac.uk/POxy/beast616.htm

Crucifer, without wanting to doubt the archeological finding, the +¦ in the -ç+¦-é does not look like a ++ atl all. It is highly unlikely the letter "became" a ++ without it being a ++ from the beginning. It doesn't even have curves.
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« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2005, 06:20:45 PM »

..... However, I have one objection: Revalations suggest it is a number, not a name or a symbol. The -ç++-é has to be a number, because it is not only mentioned in one part, but rather in 2 or 3 parts that the Beast has a number, a human number. The description is pretty clear: the Beast has a human number.
.....

Brother Ntinos,

I do not argue with you. Let's take a look to the passage:

Revelation 13:15-20

15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
16And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
17and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18Here is wisdom Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.


It is clear that "the mark on the right hand or on the forehead" will be "either the name of the beast or the number of his name". So "the number" is "of his name".

Now by saying "for the number is that of a man" St. John refers both to the "numeric" value of the number of the name but also to the numerology significance that both Greeks and Jews at St. John's time were giving to "language" and to "words". According to this context names of people, or words that describe human and divine realities have a numerical significance that is corresponding to the true meaning of the concepts that the language/words contain.

 In a Jewish point of view : “Seventy in the Bible seems to be a number that symbolizes completeness and totality. When the Torah says that Jacob had seventy children, it seems to be saying that he was extremely prolific! The “seventy elders,” is a theme which is repeated many times in the Torah. It seems to stand for the gathering of all the wisest people. The suffering of Tyre for seventy years is followed by its complete redemption; as the suffering is total, so will the redemption be total.
When Jews study the Bible, we understand that we can read God’s words on many different levels. On the simple level of the written word, numbers are just numbers. However, we are also free to look at numbers as symbols for specific ideas, like “judgement” and “totality.” When we do this, it adds to our understanding and appreciation of the Holy words.”


In this context St. John implies a specific significance in saying “for the number is that of a man". He means that the number of the name of anti-christ will manifest his non-divine origin; it will reveal his only human nature. That revelation needs wisdom to be apprehended, not for the mere calculation of the number !
« Last Edit: May 10, 2005, 08:45:15 AM by lpap » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2005, 01:04:02 AM »

Hi all...
Xristos Anesti.....Christ is Risen..

Although the ID may not be the ''mark of the beast'' it sure is leading up to that.....this is done in order to see  how people will react to a new system ,a new idea ......but could in fact lead up to the Antichrist....

The mark 666 ........Antichrist by Archpriest Boris Molchanoff........
Quote// Archpriest Michael Polsky endeavoured to decipher the meaning of ''666'' and his article.(''The number of the Beast'',appeared in the magazine Holy Land (1938,No 1 ).
As he explains it, the number ''666'' stands for the ''power of Gold''and ''auathority over one man's labour''.
The power of the Beast is that power which seizes not only all wealth, but all of one's labour as well;it binds one's hand''(p.15)

quote// in the early Christian era as well as in all subsequent periods, substitution of letters with numbers(according to the Kabbalah) was carried out only over twenty- two letters of the alphabet'.Each had a precise numerical value corresponding to an ordinal number.(dont ask me what this  means....I dont know)I have a pamphlet book and am copying bits and pieces out of it)

If I can find the internet site ......for the above....also says that 666 stands for King of the Jews.

below is  another web site.....some English but the rest in Russian
http://www.apocalypse.orthodoxy.ru/

count the number of the Beast....
http://www.roca.org/OA/153/153f.htm

I have also read that when the time comes for all to be following the antichrist, people will be made to feel ashamed and embarrased that they are the ''minority'' and will accept the mark as to not feel the embarrasement...
Another one will be food......only those that have the mark will be able to eat(and only a bit) this will all be part of the plan of the evil one......he will not be able to make food appear as he is not God.
Two prophets Enoch and Elijah(Elias) will also be here to warn the people of the coming of the antichrist and who he is...
Some say St John of the Apocalypse also.....
here also is another web site ......

Quote///////A proposed law to allow government-sponsored euthanasia.
 (True, it is not actually called 'euthanasia', following intervention by the Roman Catholic Church,
 which Mr Blair is at present preparing to join following his family crisis last May).

The forthcoming introduction of compulsory identity cards with biometric data,
 without which life will be unliveable because you will starve to death without them.
more ....
http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/demokrat.htm

Glory be to God....
helen

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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2005, 01:10:23 AM »

Hi all...
Xristos Anesti.....Christ is Risen..

Although the ID may not be the ''mark of the beast'' it sure is leading up to that.....this is done in order to see  how people will react to a new system ,a new idea ......but could in fact lead up to the Antichrist....

The mark 666 ........Antichrist by Archpriest Boris Molchanoff........
Quote// Archpriest Michael Polsky endeavoured to decipher the meaning of ''666'' and his article.(''The number of the Beast'',appeared in the magazine Holy Land (1938,No 1 ).
As he explains it, the number ''666'' stands for the ''power of Gold''and ''auathority over one man's labour''.
The power of the Beast is that power which seizes not only all wealth, but all of one's labour as well;it binds one's hand''(p.15)

quote// in the early Christian era as well as in all subsequent periods, substitution of letters with numbers(according to the Kabbalah) was carried out only over twenty- two letters of the alphabet'.Each had a precise numerical value corresponding to an ordinal number.(dont ask me what this  means....I dont know)I have a pamphlet book and am copying bits and pieces out of it)

If I can find the internet site ......for the above....also says that 666 stands for King of the Jews.

below is  another web site.....some English but the rest in Russian
http://www.apocalypse.orthodoxy.ru/

count the number of the Beast....
http://www.roca.org/OA/153/153f.htm

I have also read that when the time comes for all to be following the antichrist, people will be made to feel ashamed and embarrased that they are the ''minority'' and will accept the mark as to not feel the embarrasement...
Another one will be food......only those that have the mark will be able to eat(and only a bit) this will all be part of the plan of the evil one......he will not be able to make food appear as he is not God.
Two prophets Enoch and Elijah(Elias) will also be here to warn the people of the coming of the antichrist and who he is...
Some say St John of the Apocalypse also.....
here also is another web site ......

Quote///////A proposed law to allow government-sponsored euthanasia.
 (True, it is not actually called 'euthanasia', following intervention by the Roman Catholic Church,
 which Mr Blair is at present preparing to join following his family crisis last May).

The forthcoming introduction of compulsory identity cards with biometric data,
 without which life will be unliveable because you will starve to death without them.
more ....
http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/demokrat.htm

Glory be to God....
helen

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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2005, 01:11:52 AM »

sorry for the twice written....I was disconected everytime i tried to post here and I must accidently posted twice.....

helen...
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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2005, 12:17:49 PM »

Only a few days ago it was announced by the media here in Greece that the electronic CVs will soon be out, and that the authorities will do their best so that we can get the new CVs within the next 6 months.

First of all, there is great concern that the electronic CVs have the number 666 on them. I am not exactly aware of how the number 666 is printed/used in the electronic CVs, but just the thought that this might be an introduction to the seal of the antichrist gets me thinking for a while.
The Church of Greece had similar fears a few years ago, when the idea of electronic CVs was introduced by the European Union, and was accepted by President Simitis. A large fuss was made over the issue, with the Archbishop demanding that the new CVs are not mandatory for everybody. His voice was not heard, however.

I know this is not the seal of the Antichrist, as described in John's Revalations, but I remember not long ago an elder (elder Paissios the Agioreite Monk) mentioned this is an introduction to the seal.

Does anyone know why these electronic CVs are supposed to have the number 666 on them? Does this have any relation to the barcode system?

Also, are there any teachings from Orthodox Church Fathers on what the seal will be like (apart from St. John's in the Revalations)?

Also, about the Barcode system: The whole system uses 3 sixes (if anyone wants, I can explain it afterwards), one of which is in the start, the next in the middle, and the 3rd in the ending of the code. The 3 sixes are essential to the function of the barcode system. This is not a straightforward 666, but rather 6-6-6 (6*****6*****6, where 6 is any number from 0-9). Does this actually count for a 666?

What is a CV?
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« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2005, 12:58:55 AM »

Elder Paisios talks about the mark...
http://www.balamandmonastery.org.lb/fathers/fatherspaisios2.htm

I hope that helps..

Christ is Risen....

in Christ helen...
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« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2005, 11:53:15 AM »

Well just to update again the name of Maitreya showed up in a television program and the host told that he might be the beast. Who knows Roll Eyes Huh
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« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2009, 08:02:49 AM »

... I have an opinion as to this number [666], though I do not know for certain, for many names have been found in this number when it is expressed in writing. Still we say that perhaps the scription of this same seal will give us the word "I deny."..

Of such kind, in the time of that hater of all good, will be the seal, the tenor of which will be this: "I deny the Maker of heaven and earth, I deny the baptism, I deny my (former) service and attach myself to thee, and I believe in thee."

 ... truly those who are engrossed in the affairs of life, and with the lust of this world, will be easily brought over to the accuser [Antichrist] then, and sealed by him. - Saint Hippolytus of Rome

"Discourse on the End of the World and on Antichrist"



These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, let them await, in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. This, too, the apostle affirms: “When they shall say, Peace and safety, then sudden destruction shall come upon them.”47034703    1 Thess. v. 3.  And Jeremiah does not merely point out his sudden coming, but he even indicates the tribe from which he shall come, where he says, “We shall hear the voice of his swift horses from Dan; the whole earth shall be moved by the voice of the neighing of his galloping horses: he shall also come and devour the earth, and the fulness thereof, the city also, and they that dwell therein.”47044704    Jer. viii. 16.  This, too, is the reason that this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which are saved.4705

...For if there are many names found possessing this number, it will be asked which among them shall the coming man bear. It is not through a want of names containing the number of that name that I say this, but on account of the fear of God, and zeal for the truth: for the name Evanthas (ΕΥΑΝΘΑΣ) contains the required number, but I make no allegation regarding it. Then also Lateinos (ΛΑΤΕΙΝΟΣ) has the number six hundred and sixty-six; and it is a very probable [solution], this being the name of the last kingdom [of the four seen by Daniel]. For the Latins are they who at present bear rule:47064706    [A very pregnant passage, as has often been noted. But let us imitate the pious reticence with which this section concludes.]  I will not, however, make any boast over this [coincidence]. Teitan too, (ΤΕΙΤΑΝ, the first syllable being written with the two Greek vowels ε and ι, among all the names which are found among us, is rather worthy of credit. For it has in itself the predicted number, and is composed of six letters, each syllable containing three letters; and [the word itself] is ancient, and removed from ordinary use; for among our kings we find none bearing this name Titan, nor have any of the idols which are worshipped in public among the Greeks and barbarians this appellation. Among many persons, too, this name is accounted divine, so that even the sun is termed “Titan” by those who do now possess [the rule]. This word, too, contains a certain outward appearance of vengeance, and of one inflicting merited punishment because he (Antichrist) pretends that he vindicates the oppressed.47074707    Massuet here quotes Cicero and Ovid in proof of the sun being termed Titan. The Titans waged war against the gods, to avenge themselves upon Saturn.  And besides this, it is an ancient name, one worthy of credit, of royal dignity, and still further, a name belonging to a tyrant. Inasmuch, then, as this name “Titan” has so much to recommend it, there is a strong degree of probability, that from among the many [names suggested], we infer, that perchance he who is to come shall be called “Titan.” We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time 560 since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.

.... But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But now as “he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition,”47084708    Rev. xvii. 8.  as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”4709

(from Irenaeus - link http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vii.xxxi.html)

How do we make the proper interpretation of the 666 the number of the name of the beast ? If anyone has other patristic sources our ideas please share.
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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2009, 04:00:32 AM »

Hello to everyone!

The number that Saint John of the Apocalypse gives is 666 but it should not pose a problem to any faithful Orthodox people.
Why?
It seems to pop up everywhere you look,number plates,building with this sign,names of people adding up to 666 and so on and so on...
I first came across prophecy a long time ago....although I did not specifically look for Orthodox Prophecy,I just read up on any so called prophecy and who others called, 'prophets'...eg/Famous Nostradamus,Edgar Casey, many others that I cannot remember off hand.
Reading material of non Orthodox, even if it sounds good, is not recommended because if one does not know Orthodox, then one can easily be deceived with all the lies that are spread out into the world...Some of these LIES are actually put out on purpose to outright deceive.
Not only is this not good, but it takes you away from the truth and deceives us into believing a lie...dates and counting numbers to find the Antichrist have all been wrong in the past(I dont say this on my own account, but what the Orthodox Church teaches.
Back to the number....Did you know that SOME people out there,hold this number sacred?
Yes,and this is why it is seen everywhere...THEY put it there on purpose...knowing extremely well what they are doing and why!
To a Christian with no knowledge of Orthodox and the Saints of the Church, one starts to fear the number 666.
Well,not a scary number.
There is a book I recommend to read on ....ANTICHRIST by Archpriest Boris Molchanoff...Im not sure if it is on the net...
We have many Saints that have all spoken of the end of times...
A great site to have a look is ...http://www.geocities.com/kitezhgrad/prophets/index.html ....Funny thing is, that I have AVAST-anti virus on my computer, and when I try to go to some of the links on that page I posted,it triggers my anti virus...i believe it has been put there deliberately...I have looked and read most of the prophecies in that site, and like I said,I do have AVAST...I didn't get a virus...very strange indeed!
I wrote that just incase anyone here thinks I may be doing the virus thing on purpose...
My old user name is  eleni ...reason I did not use it is because it wouldnt allow me to post...
I tried to sign up with MONACHOS forums, but they emailed me and said that my IP shows that im a spammer/hacker...which is too funny as all I know is how to read and shut a computer.
Well, sorry for talking too much,
take care,
IX
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« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2009, 10:49:38 AM »

Ok, I am  a little confused, so should the numer be taken literally or symbolically (for what it stands for). I ask only because my  driver's licence number ends in 6666 I was speechless when I saw it (the chances of landing that number completely freaked me out odss wise), but they would not change it, and it would never be changed as long as I live in NSW, I would have to change states and get a new licence. I have had it for 14 years.

Maybe God's telling me to change states Cheesy
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« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2009, 12:21:30 PM »

With all due respect, Phoenix, but this is what I believe to be a superstition. It's just a number, it's not on your hand, your forehead or anywhere else.
666 is only dangerous when it's being introduced in the way Revelation describes it.
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« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2009, 12:35:46 PM »

Ok, I am  a little confused, so should the numer be taken literally or symbolically (for what it stands for). I ask only because my  driver's licence number ends in 6666 I was speechless when I saw it (the chances of landing that number completely freaked me out odss wise), but they would not change it, and it would never be changed as long as I live in NSW, I would have to change states and get a new licence. I have had it for 14 years.

Maybe God's telling me to change states Cheesy

You involuntarily reminded me of a friend of mine who on the contrary explicitly ASKED to her comics shop to give her box n. 666 for joke and obtained it  Grin
Anyway... the Church Fathers seemed to be sure that the 666 mark was of course a number of a true human being. Hippolitus lists names such as Lateinos, others offered the name Teitan, and finally Andrew of Constantinople identified it with Benediktos, as Martin Luther was to do some centuries later.
The question is clear, as almost Church Fathers will surely do: the meaning of this number will be discovered only when the Antichrist will show up in its earthly and demonic majesty to persecute the true Christians, and it's only up to them (I hope to be in the number, though) to recognize him in the end and oppose him. Don't bother too much on the identity of Antichrist, but much more on his characteristics: in fact, what the Antichrist has is the opposite of that which Christ had, and knowing the Antichrist is a way to know better Christ and appreciate His work of salvation for us.

That doesn't prevent you, of course, from having personal opinions; I also have mine and think I *might* be correct. Anyway, let's focus on our personal spiritual growth so that we might fight the Antichrist and his legions in the end of times.

In Christ,   your brother Alex
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« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2009, 12:57:31 PM »

What does one do in a place like Gresham, OR, where the 3-digit telephone number prefix is 666?
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« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2009, 01:59:02 PM »

Well, according to some (and we both know who I mean), the telephone itself is an instrument of the Devil and such a prefix is only proof of it Wink
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« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2009, 02:35:45 PM »

What does one do in a place like Gresham, OR, where the 3-digit telephone number prefix is 666?
One should train pidgeons to bring messages, I guess LOL But get sure the pidgeon has no 666-shaped sign under the feathers  Wink
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« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2009, 04:02:04 AM »

Ok, I am  a little confused, so should the numer be taken literally or symbolically (for what it stands for). I ask only because my  driver's licence number ends in 6666 I was speechless when I saw it (the chances of landing that number completely freaked me out odss wise), but they would not change it, and it would never be changed as long as I live in NSW, I would have to change states and get a new licence. I have had it for 14 years.

Maybe God's telling me to change states Cheesy

hi Phoenix,

When I first began to take notice of the number 666 I began to notice it everywhere,tis of-ofcorse scared me....there is nothing to be scared of, it is just a number,and as many others here have said...it is only dangerous when it becomes REAL enough as in Revelation.
The Number 666 in the Hebrew alphabet is WWW...Just another interesting point to observe.
The Number 6 also is sacred in some religious faiths....certain kabalistic followers consider this a scared number...I wonder if this number 666 is placed out there on PURPOSE,EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE!
The mark of a christian is baptism...one is Chrismated on the forehead and on hands and feet...it is called a mystery that is part of the faith...
http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/beginning/ on baptism link.
and also look at http://www.genuineorthodoxchurch.net/mysteries.html ''Orthodox Mysteries'' Sacrements.

I have read that the 'Mark' of the antichrist will be put on the forehead because of ones 'MIND' thoughts?
Te Right hand because the Sign of the Cross is made with the right hand.
Of course one that has no hands it wont be put there!
Smiley
There also is the worship of the antichrist...bowing down to worship is also bad....eg/ in the old Testament the three children were made to bow down and worship an 'image'

Here are a few links ..http://orthodoxeschatology.blogspot.com/2008/12/end-of-world-antichrist.html


Quote
And in the latter times of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up." (Daniel 8:23)

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders...."  (2 Thessalonians 2:9)
http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/theantichrist.htm

And another link.....
http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/end/antichrist.shtml

Quote
Antichrist will first appear as a wolf in sheep's clothing, in order to deceive the people and win their confidence. "He will come as one humble, meek, a hater (as he will say of himself) of unrighteousness, despising idols, giving preference to piety, good, a lover of the poor, beautiful to an extreme degree, constant, gracious to all... He will not accept bribes, speak with anger, show a gloomy countenance, but with a decorous exterior he will take to deceiving the world, until he has become king" (St. Ephraim). In further imitation of Christ, he will perform signs and wonders: "Being the father of falsehood, he will deceive the imagination by means of false actions so that the multitudes may think that they see a dead man raised and lame men walking or blind men seeing when no cure has been wrought" (St. Cyril of Jerusalem).
http://www.roca.org/OA/51/51g.htm

So, what we learn and understand as Christians is that the Antichrist will have NOTHING on us if we as Christians lived as Jesus Christ our Lord wanted us to...
Quote
If someone is teaching you outside of the things which the holy catholic Church received from the Holy Apostles, Fathers and Synods and preserved up till now, do not listen to him..., close your ears." (St. John Damascene)
Then again we as Orthodox Christians must return towards the path of righteous faith, as well as fully spiritually participate in it with all our minds, hearts, and souls.  I would like humbly to make the following suggestions to you that would help all of us be most faithful Orthodox and pious Christians as we all ourselves struggle for our salvation and that we will indeed have a good and great defense before the great judgement seat of our Christ our Lord:

1). Participate in loving prayer of the Divine Services of your parish Church, attend frequently Vespers, Matins, and the Holy Divine Liturgy, and when the Church calls you for further prayer.
http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/theantichrist.htm

Yes, those that will be living at the terrible times of the Antichrist will be the most horrible and catastrophic of ever was in History....
This is why we are told to watch and PRAY...for we do not know when our time will be.

ICXC NIKA
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« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2009, 11:07:15 AM »

What does one do in a place like Gresham, OR, where the 3-digit telephone number prefix is 666?
He says "Oh! It's the number of the Beast!" and then gets over  his "hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia".
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« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2009, 01:48:55 PM »

"hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia".

I remember in grade 5 I had a cruel teacher who used that word on a spelling test.  Tongue
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« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2010, 12:17:25 AM »

This is in reference to 666 ...The Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol 1 pages 556-560 Ireneus has a lot to say about the number 666, name Titan,Teitan, and the end times. If you do not have the books they can be found on line....so much for the pre trib rapture...also some information on the tribe of Dan. If you will...read the whole volume it will set your heart on fire and you will be out on the streets preaching repentance and turning hearts to our Lord Jesus Christ. 
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« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2010, 06:57:57 AM »

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« Reply #34 on: May 27, 2010, 07:44:04 AM »



This symbol, like the Menorah stands for the 7 spirits of YHWH as per Isaiah 11:2. Nothing to do with the Beast.

666 is not some sort of electronic number or computer chip. The majority of the countries in the world are still sub-industrialised societies who experience power failures on a regular basis, including the countries in the only region the Bible actually talks about - the Middle East. So the Big Brother style "one world government micro chip" theory can never materilize in reality, it is not possible to run such a system without a reliable supply of electricity. The Lindsays, La Hayes & Vam Impes are taking this symbolic stuff too literally.

I honestly don't know what the mark of the Beast is but I believe it has something to do with this: http://www.beastfromtheeast.org/for_20Rodrigo_20Chapter_2013_20-_20The_20Mark_20of_20the_20Beasta.pdf.
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« Reply #35 on: May 27, 2010, 07:55:50 AM »

Count the Number of the Beast: 666
by Inok Vsevolod (Filipiev)


A small article on the number of the beast by a monk of Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/beast666.aspx
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« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2010, 08:07:59 AM »

Count the Number of the Beast: 666
by Inok Vsevolod (Filipiev)


A small article on the number of the beast by a monk of Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/beast666.aspx

I googled it and here's a link to the article: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/beast666.aspx. I haven't read all of it yet, just quickly scanned through but so far I'm very impressed. Thanks for the reference Fr. Ambrose.
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« Reply #37 on: May 27, 2010, 08:15:10 AM »

Count the Number of the Beast: 666
by Inok Vsevolod (Filipiev)


A small article on the number of the beast by a monk of Holy Trinity Monastery, Jordanville

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/beast666.aspx

I googled it and here's a link to the article: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/beast666.aspx. I haven't read all of it yet, just quickly scanned through but so far I'm very impressed. Thanks for the reference Fr. Ambrose.
Apologies that I left out the link! 
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« Reply #38 on: May 27, 2010, 10:13:40 AM »



This picture is not worth the thousand words you may think it is.  Care to elaborate on how the Star of David is related to the Number of the Beast?
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« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2010, 05:42:16 PM »

This picture is not worth the thousand words you may think it is.  Care to elaborate on how the Star of David is related to the Number of the Beast?
6 external points, 6 vertices on the internal hexagon, and 6 tiny triangles?  laugh
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« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2010, 06:26:06 AM »

Quote from: Nazarene
"This symbol, like the Menorah stands for the 7 spirits of YHWH as per Isaiah 11:2. Nothing to do with the Beast."

Oh? Where do you get that idea from? Your Talmudic 'rabbis'?

Quote from: Nazarene
"666 is not some sort of electronic number or computer chip. (...) The Lindsays, La Hayes & Van Impes are taking this symbolic stuff too literally."

I wholeheartedly agree. I think it's much simpler. Too many people are stuck on the (patently false) bar-code theory and the far-fetched 'chip' idea... How can a 'chip' translate to the name of a man?

Quote from: Schultz
"This picture is not worth the thousand words you may think it is. Care to elaborate on how the Star of David is related to the Number of the Beast?"

Well, as Nebelpfade demonstrated... this occult symbol (which is clearly a MARK) can easily be translated numerically. It consists of six straight lines, a hexagon in the center and six points. It represents today so-called 'Judaism' (Pharisaism), Zionism and the anti-Christ "state" (where they've burned New Testaments in the street) in occupied Palestine.

But more importantly... It also fits the other characteristic criterium of the mark as listed in Revelation 13:

The mark must also be related to a man. The hexagram is known now as the 'Star of David', but it is actually historically called the 'Seal of Solomon' and was connected with Saturn worship. The mark & the number 666 must also be related to the man.

So - are there any other clues in the Bible that will tie Solomon with the number 666? As a matter of fact... In the first book of Kings and the second book of Chronicles we may see:

"The weight of gold that came to Solomon yearly was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold,"
I Kings 10:14, II Chron 9:13
(NKJ)

The star is also mentioned here:

"And they made a calf in those days, offered sacrifices to the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned and gave them up to worship the host of heaven, as it is written in the book of the Prophets: 'Did you offer Me slaughtered animals and sacrifices during forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel? You also took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Images which you made to worship; And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.'"
- Acts 7:41-43
(NKJ)

... And here:

"Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Raephan, the images of them which ye made for yourselves. And I will carry you away beyond Damascus, saith the Lord, the Almighty God is His name."
- Amos 5:26-27
(Brenton LXX)

As for the buying and selling... the mark can be found hidden in plain sight on the back of every U.S. dollar bill (along with the Kaballistic, Masonic 'All-Seeing Eye').
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« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2010, 09:27:32 AM »

... And here:

"Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Raephan, the images of them which ye made for yourselves. And I will carry you away beyond Damascus, saith the Lord, the Almighty God is His name."
- Amos 5:26-27
(Brenton LXX)



What actual archaeological evidence is there that links this particular six-pointed star with the pagan deity Raephan?
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« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2010, 10:02:29 AM »

This picture is not worth the thousand words you may think it is.  Care to elaborate on how the Star of David is related to the Number of the Beast?
6 external points, 6 vertices on the internal hexagon, and 6 tiny triangles?  laugh

OK so then let's add this up:

6 + 6 + 6 = 18

Problem is Rev says the number equalls 666 (six hundred and sixty six).

Quote from: Nazarene
"This symbol, like the Menorah stands for the 7 spirits of YHWH as per Isaiah 11:2. Nothing to do with the Beast."

Oh? Where do you get that idea from? Your Talmudic 'rabbis'?

I'm simply stating what the symbol means to Jews because that's what actually matters. The center from which the 6 points stem being the Spirit of YHWH with the 6 points representing the 6 "spirits" (the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear YHWH), which branch off from the Spirit of YHWH. In short it the Star of David stands for the same thing as the Menorah - the Holy Spirit.

Quote from: Nazarene
"666 is not some sort of electronic number or computer chip. (...) The Lindsays, La Hayes & Van Impes are taking this symbolic stuff too literally."

I wholeheartedly agree. I think it's much simpler. Too many people are stuck on the (patently false) bar-code theory and the far-fetched 'chip' idea... How can a 'chip' translate to the name of a man?

Glad you at least know this much.

Quote from: Schultz
"This picture is not worth the thousand words you may think it is. Care to elaborate on how the Star of David is related to the Number of the Beast?"

Well, as Nebelpfade demonstrated... this occult symbol (which is clearly a MARK) can easily be translated numerically. It consists of six straight lines, a hexagon in the center and six points. It represents today so-called 'Judaism' (Pharisaism), Zionism and the anti-Christ "state" (where they've burned New Testaments in the street) in occupied Palestine.

I'll quote my response to Nebelpfade which demonstrates the problem with your hypothesis:

OK so then let's add this up:

6 + 6 + 6 = 18

Problem is Rev says the number equalls 666 (six hundred and sixty six).


Sorry mate doesn't work.

But more importantly... It also fits the other characteristic criterium of the mark as listed in Revelation 13:

The mark must also be related to a man. The hexagram is known now as the 'Star of David', but it is actually historically called the 'Seal of Solomon' and was connected with Saturn worship. The mark & the number 666 must also be related to the man.

So - are there any other clues in the Bible that will tie Solomon with the number 666? As a matter of fact... In the first book of Kings and the second book of Chronicles we may see:

"The weight of gold that came to Solomon yearly was six hundred and sixty-six talents of gold,"
I Kings 10:14, II Chron 9:13
(NKJ)

The star is also mentioned here:

"And they made a calf in those days, offered sacrifices to the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned and gave them up to worship the host of heaven, as it is written in the book of the Prophets: 'Did you offer Me slaughtered animals and sacrifices during forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel? You also took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Images which you made to worship; And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.'"
- Acts 7:41-43
(NKJ)

... And here:

"Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Raephan, the images of them which ye made for yourselves. And I will carry you away beyond Damascus, saith the Lord, the Almighty God is His name."
- Amos 5:26-27
(Brenton LXX)

As for the buying and selling... the mark can be found hidden in plain sight on the back of every U.S. dollar bill (along with the Kaballistic, Masonic 'All-Seeing Eye').
[/quote]

I've heard this theory before, and IMO it's absolute hogwash. There is no evidence connecting the Star of David with the Seal of Solomon or that it was connected to Saturn worship, this is as laughable as Alexander Hyslop's The Two Babylons. Stringing to together coincidences in myths and legends does not make a theory fact. We don't know the origin of what is now known as the Star of David, the point is for Jews the Star does not represent a man but the Spirit of God.

And besides the number is not 6 or combinations of the number 6 (6 this + 6 that, etc.), it is the number 666, as in the 666 which comes after 665 and before 667, i.e. six hundred and sixty six. Any theory that doesn't have six hundred and sixty six as it's conclusion is to be taken with a grain of salt.

I suggest you read Count the Number of the Beast: 666 by Inok Vsevolod linked above, now there's someone with real wisdom on the subject.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 10:12:07 AM by Nazarene » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2010, 10:01:13 PM »

Quote from: Schultz
"What actual archaeological evidence is there that links this particular six-pointed star with the pagan deity Raephan?"

About as much archaeological evidence as there is linking it it with the Biblical 'Jews'....

BTW, is it just me - or is that a six-pointed star in the background behind you in your avatar image?

Quote from: Nazarene
"OK so then let's add this up:

6 + 6 + 6 = 18

Problem is Rev says the number equals 666 (six hundred and sixty six)."

If I write a six beside a six followed by another six... that reads six hundred and sixty-six. You've inserted plus signs and performed addition with the numbers.

Where'd you get the addition symbols from? Why not subtraction? Or multiplication or division? Take away your arbitrarily imposed mathematical symbols and you're left with:

666 = Six hundred and sixty-six.

Quote
"I'm simply stating what the symbol means to Jews because that's what actually matters. The center from which the 6 points stem being the Spirit of YHWH with the 6 points representing the 6 "spirits" (the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear YHWH), which branch off from the Spirit of YHWH. In short it the Star of David stands for the same thing as the Menorah - the Holy Spirit."

Yes, I understood you... and I'm simply asking you where you got that idea from. Was it not from the so-called 'rabbis'?

Quote
"I've heard this theory before, and IMO it's absolute hogwash."

Well then why did you go off about "computer chips" and "electronic numbers"? I never said anything about those things.

Quote
" There is no evidence connecting the Star of David with the Seal of Solomon or that it was connected to Saturn worship"

Oh really? But I thought you said, "We don't know the origin of what is now known as the Star of David"?

This Wikipedia page HERE on the Seal of Solomon (not that I think much of Wikipedia) shows this image as an example of the seal:



Here's an example of the 'Talisman of Saturn':



And THIS page on the Hexagram says:

"The hexagram, like the pentagram, was and is used in practices of the occult (...)

The six-pointed star is commonly used both as a talisman and for conjuring spirits in the practice of witchcraft. In the Book The History and Practice of Magic, Vol. 2, the six-pointed star is called the talisman of Saturn and it is also referred to as the Seal of Solomon."


Here's a book for you to check out:

Six-Pointed Star: Its Origin and Usage
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« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2010, 06:34:34 PM »

Quote from: Schultz
"What actual archaeological evidence is there that links this particular six-pointed star with the pagan deity Raephan?"

About as much archaeological evidence as there is linking it it with the Biblical 'Jews'....

Like what?

Quote from: Nazarene
"OK so then let's add this up:

6 + 6 + 6 = 18

Problem is Rev says the number equals 666 (six hundred and sixty six)."

If I write a six beside a six followed by another six... that reads six hundred and sixty-six. You've inserted plus signs and performed addition with the numbers.

Where'd you get the addition symbols from? Why not subtraction? Or multiplication or division? Take away your arbitrarily imposed mathematical symbols and you're left with:

666 = Six hundred and sixty-six.

So then tell me how the Fathers got χξϛ to equal 666? Cause as far as I know the only way that could've happened if they (as John said) "calculated" the values of the letters. χ (600) + ξ (60) + ϛ (6) = 666. John wrote χξϛ not ϛϛϛ, so therefore the total value (for the theory to qualify as a realistic possibility) must equal 666 not 18, so this immediately rules out your Star of David theory.

Quote
"I'm simply stating what the symbol means to Jews because that's what actually matters. The center from which the 6 points stem being the Spirit of YHWH with the 6 points representing the 6 "spirits" (the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear YHWH), which branch off from the Spirit of YHWH. In short it the Star of David stands for the same thing as the Menorah - the Holy Spirit."

Yes, I understood you... and I'm simply asking you where you got that idea from. Was it not from the so-called 'rabbis'?

Actually no, believe it or not no legitimate Jewish text ever mentions the Maagen David, not even the Zohar or Rashi.

But this article does address the points you raised: http://www.therefinersfire.org/star_of_david.htm

Quote
"I've heard this theory before, and IMO it's absolute hogwash."

Well then why did you go off about "computer chips" and "electronic numbers"? I never said anything about those things.

I was referring to the earlier posts about the Mark of the Beast "connection" in the electronic CVs which I do believe is hogwash, sorry I didn't make this clear, but yes I think your theory is also hogwash.

Quote
" There is no evidence connecting the Star of David with the Seal of Solomon or that it was connected to Saturn worship"

Oh really?

Yes really, when one examines legitimate sources that is.

But I thought you said, "We don't know the origin of what is now known as the Star of David"?

Yes we don't know anything for certain regarding it's origin, lots of speculation and lots of stringing coincidental details from myths and legends but no concrete evidence to prove anything.

This Wikipedia page HERE on the Seal of Solomon (not that I think much of Wikipedia) shows this image as an example of the seal:


From the same article:

In Medieval Jewish, Christian and Islamic legends, the Seal of Solomon was a magical signet ring said to have been possessed by King Solomon, which variously gave him the power to command demons, genies (or jinni), or to speak with animals.

Legends are fiction not fact. There is no real reason to believe that the Seal of Solomon ever existed. Funny how the only sources you and others who believe this nonsense have to work with are fairytales.

Here's an example of the 'Talisman of Saturn':



And THIS page on the Hexagram says:

"The hexagram, like the pentagram, was and is used in practices of the occult (...)

The six-pointed star is commonly used both as a talisman and for conjuring spirits in the practice of witchcraft. In the Book The History and Practice of Magic, Vol. 2, the six-pointed star is called the talisman of Saturn and it is also referred to as the Seal of Solomon."


Here's a book for you to check out:

Six-Pointed Star: Its Origin and Usage

Do you have any idea how many Christian symbols are possibly of pagan origin and used in the occult? Do some reading on the origin of the Cross and you'll find some interesting stuff.

Look I use to think like this, then I opened my eyes and realized that the symbol itself is nothing, it only has meaning if meaning is given to it and likewise only has power if power is given to it. For the Jews the Hexagram is the Maagen David (Shield of David) and any Bible believing Jew and Christian is well aware of who David's Shield is, and that's what matters. For us Nazarenes it symbolizes Yeshua for He called Himself "the root of David, the bright morning star" (Revelation 22:16).

It would matter what the Hexagram means for Freemasons if I were a Freemason, but I'm not so I don't give a **** what it means to them, and quite frankly I don't need to. For us the Cross is a beautiful symbol of Love, Salvation and Eternal Life, for Muslims it's an abominable symbol of shame that is beneath their cold and heartless god, but do you care what they think, and should you care about what they think?

If we are talking about a symbol we must talk about it in the context it is used and not assume a connection to a different context when there is none and when there is no proof of such a connection. The Jews didn't invent the Hexagram, that much we know, sure they may have borrowed the symbol from the Babylonians or something but so what? What matters is what it means to them, and it has always meant the "Shield of David" who is the Spirit of God.
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