Poll

How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?

three
9 (24.3%)
four
1 (2.7%)
five
0 (0%)
six
0 (0%)
seven
20 (54.1%)
eight
1 (2.7%)
nine
3 (8.1%)
I am not an Orthodox Christian, but I wanted to vote.
3 (8.1%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Author Topic: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?  (Read 5560 times)

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Offline Maria

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2014, 02:33:48 PM »
LOL, three is winning! 

Hmmm...how odd...three was winning when I went to sleep (because it's correct, dagnabit), but now a bunch of Johnny-come-latelys appear to have shown up and skewed the results in their favor. What an unprecedented development in the history of the church! :o

You will have to go and recruit more of your friends to join OC. net and post here.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Maria

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2014, 02:35:37 PM »
One vote was given for FOUR.

What is the rationale behind that vote?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Maria

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #47 on: September 08, 2014, 02:37:45 PM »
Gamliel's response raised a smile and chuckle from me. Bravo!

And I am still following on digging and reading following this seeing the topic raised. Once again very interesting and doesn't in any way detract from what was taught, only appears to add some clarity. So once again, thank you, Maria.



You are very welcome.  :)
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Maria

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2014, 02:41:50 PM »
Fwiw, something I posted elsewhere...

Why haven't there been any recent ecumenical councils?

It is generally agreed that the last Ecumenical Council was in AD 787, so the question arises: why hasn't there been one since then?  Before I give some of the answers I've seen for that question, though, I should point out that a minority in the Orthodox world do believe that there was an 8th Council, and perhaps a 9th one as well. For example, the much-respected Met. Hierotheos mentions this in chapter 9 of his book The Mind of the Orthodox Church, and in another book says:

Quote
The hesychastic confict, as it was called, ended with the Councils which took place in Constantinople in 1341, 1346 and 1351. The Last Council, which 'justified' St. Gregory Palamas, proponent of the hesychastic life, is considered to be Ecumenical: 'We think that the Council of Constantinople in the time of Saint Gregory Palamas in 1351, judging at least on the basis of its great theological work, can be and deserves to be counted among the Ecumenical Councils of the Orthodox Church, to which it is in now way inferior as to the soteriological significance of its theology. This Council constitutes the proof of the continuing conciliarity of the Orthodox Church and of the living experience and theology concerning salvation in Christ' . . .hesychasm [has] been 'justified' by the Council of Constantinople and consequently one who speaks against these things is no longer within the Orthodox tradition and at any rate creates preconditions for being cut off from its life.

-- Met. Hierotheos, Orthodox Psychotherapy: The Science of the Fathers, (Birth of the Theotokos Monastery, 1994), pp. 326-327, 330-331

(Met. Hierotheos is quoting: Athanasius Gievtits. Christ Beginning and End. p. 195. In Gk.)

Another respected theologian, Fr. John Romanides, says the following:

Quote
When it became clear that the Franks were not going to retreat from these politico-doctrinal policies, the Romans [ie. Orthodox] accepted the challenge and condemned both the Filioque and the Frankish double position on icons at the Eighth Ecumenical Synod of 879 in Constantinople-New Rome. From the Roman [ie. Orthodox] viewpoint, however, the Roman tradition of the Fathers was not only not terminated in the eighth century, but continued a vigorous existence in free Romania in the East, as well as within Arab-occupied areas. Present research is now leading to the conclusion that the Roman Patristic period extended right in tot he period of Ottoman rule, after the fall of Constantinople New Rome. This means that the Eighth Ecumenical Synod (879), under Photios, the so-called Palamite Synods of the fourteenth century, and the Synods of the Roman Patriarchate during the Ottoman period, are all a continuation and an integral part of the history of Patristic theology. It is also a continuation of the Roman Christian tradition, minus the Patriarchate of Old Rome, which, since 1009 after having been captured, ceased to be Roman and became a Frankish institution.

-- Fr. John S. Romanides, Franks, Romans, Feudalism and Doctrine, Part 3

Fr. John says elsewhere:

Quote
All who have reached glorification testify to the fact that "it is impossible to express God and even more impossible to conceive Him" because they know by their experience that there is no similarity whatsoever between the created and the uncreated. God is "unmoved mover" and "moved" and "neither one. nor oneness nor unity,. nor divinity... nor sonship, nor fatherhood, etc." in the experience of glorification. The Bible and dogmas are guides to and abolished during glorification. They are not ends in themselves and have nothing to do with metaphysics, either with analogia entis or with analogia fidei. This means that words and concepts which do not contradict the experience of glorification and which lead to purification and illumination of the heart and glorification are Orthodox. Words and concepts which contradict glorification and lead away from cure and perfection in Christ are heretical. This is the key to the decisions of all Seven Roman Ecumenical Councils as well as that of the Eighth of 879 and especially of the Ninth of 1341.

-- Fr. John S. Romanides, Church Synods and Civilization

Fr. John discusses briefly the idea elsewhere as well (e.g. here and even includes it in the sub-title here).

The Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarchs from 1848, signed by many Orthodox bishops, including the Patriarchs of Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria, also mentions an 8th Ecumenical Council.  And while Met. Kallistos does not go as far, he nonetheless does say in his book The Orthodox Church that:

Quote
His teachings [ie. those of Saint Gregory Palamas] was confirmed by two councils held at Constantinople in 1341 and 1351, which, although local and not Ecumenical, yet possess a doctrinal authority in Orthodox theology scarcely inferior to the seven general councils themselves.

-- Bishop Kallistos, The Orthodox Church (New Edition), (Penguin Books, 1997), p. 67

Later in the same book he lists the councils of 1341 and 1351, and also the Encyclical Letter of Saint Photius from 867, as being among the "chief Orthodox doctrinal statements" since the 7th Ecumenical Council. (p. 203)  

However, as was mentioned, the idea that there were 8th and 9th (or more) councils is a minority viewpoint. And even if you do accept that there were 8th and 9th Councils, the last one would still have been over 600 years ago. Why is that?

I don't claim to know for sure, but I've seen some answers which seem to me to make sense, and I think taken together they answer the question well enough. First, there is no longer an Emperor to call the council. All of the first seven Ecumenical Councils were called by the Roman Emperors, and they facilitated the proceedings taking place. Another idea is that there is no longer an empire, an ecumene, and thus no longer Ecumenical Councils.

And it has been argued that we simply haven't needed another such council. There have been pan-Orthodox and local councils, but it's been said that we haven't needed an ecumenical one. There have been lots of heresies, sure, but some argue that the seven Ecumenical Councils dealt with a particular set of heresies, those of a christological nature. It could then be said that, for a short period of about 450 years (325-787) there was a group of heresies that needed to be dealt with, and so the Church dealt with them in a special way. According to this line of reasoning, no Ecumenical Councils were needed before 325, and none were needed after 787.

How the current preparations for the upcoming council--whether called general or pan-orthodox or ecumenical--will impact these arguments and viewpoints, I don't know.

Thank you very much for sharing your post.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline JamesR

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2014, 03:35:23 PM »
If you meant "Eastern Orthodox," the traditional answer is 7.

Which is hardly "traditional" at all, contrary to the belief of many Orthodox people. The concept of seven big things--ie, Sacraments, Ecumenical Councils, etc.--is a Western idea that somehow found its way into Orthodoxy, probably in Russia during the "Western Captivity" era.

Offline Maria

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2014, 03:37:14 PM »
If you meant "Eastern Orthodox," the traditional answer is 7.

Which is hardly "traditional" at all, contrary to the belief of many Orthodox people. The concept of seven big things--ie, Sacraments, Ecumenical Councils, etc.--is a Western idea that somehow found its way into Orthodoxy, probably in Russia during the "Western Captivity" era.

7 is a magical number!
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2014, 03:39:55 PM »
If you meant "Eastern Orthodox," the traditional answer is 7.

Which is hardly "traditional" at all, contrary to the belief of many Orthodox people. The concept of seven big things--ie, Sacraments, Ecumenical Councils, etc.--is a Western idea that somehow found its way into Orthodoxy, probably in Russia during the "Western Captivity" era.


yea...they had the other 4 councils...JUST to make sure that it matched the number of sacraments in the Western Church.


All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline Maria

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2014, 03:40:57 PM »
If you meant "Eastern Orthodox," the traditional answer is 7.

Which is hardly "traditional" at all, contrary to the belief of many Orthodox people. The concept of seven big things--ie, Sacraments, Ecumenical Councils, etc.--is a Western idea that somehow found its way into Orthodoxy, probably in Russia during the "Western Captivity" era.


yea...they had the other 4 councils...JUST to make sure that it matched the number of sacraments in the Western Church.




duh!
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline JamesR

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2014, 03:42:38 PM »
If you meant "Eastern Orthodox," the traditional answer is 7.

Which is hardly "traditional" at all, contrary to the belief of many Orthodox people. The concept of seven big things--ie, Sacraments, Ecumenical Councils, etc.--is a Western idea that somehow found its way into Orthodoxy, probably in Russia during the "Western Captivity" era.


yea...they had the other 4 councils...JUST to make sure that it matched the number of sacraments in the Western Church.




The entire concept of numbering Sacraments is opposed to Orthodox theology and metaphysics. It creates a distinction between the Sacramental and the non-Sacramental, the religious and the secular. Ideally everything, in the spirit of the Incarnation, is supposed to be Sacramental. Life itself is supposed to be Sacramental. Numbering the Sacraments compartmentalizes God like those Western theologians everybody complains about.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2014, 03:45:46 PM »
If you meant "Eastern Orthodox," the traditional answer is 7.

Which is hardly "traditional" at all, contrary to the belief of many Orthodox people. The concept of seven big things--ie, Sacraments, Ecumenical Councils, etc.--is a Western idea that somehow found its way into Orthodoxy, probably in Russia during the "Western Captivity" era.


yea...they had the other 4 councils...JUST to make sure that it matched the number of sacraments in the Western Church.




The entire concept of numbering Sacraments is opposed to Orthodox theology and metaphysics. It creates a distinction between the Sacramental and the non-Sacramental, the religious and the secular. Ideally everything, in the spirit of the Incarnation, is supposed to be Sacramental. Life itself is supposed to be Sacramental. Numbering the Sacraments compartmentalizes God like those Western theologians everybody complains about.

Which is all fine and good.

IF we were talking Sacraments.


we are talking Councils, and thus you implied that 'we count 7 to make it 'match' the Sacraments and numbering them.


All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline JamesR

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2014, 03:51:36 PM »
If you meant "Eastern Orthodox," the traditional answer is 7.

Which is hardly "traditional" at all, contrary to the belief of many Orthodox people. The concept of seven big things--ie, Sacraments, Ecumenical Councils, etc.--is a Western idea that somehow found its way into Orthodoxy, probably in Russia during the "Western Captivity" era.


yea...they had the other 4 councils...JUST to make sure that it matched the number of sacraments in the Western Church.




The entire concept of numbering Sacraments is opposed to Orthodox theology and metaphysics. It creates a distinction between the Sacramental and the non-Sacramental, the religious and the secular. Ideally everything, in the spirit of the Incarnation, is supposed to be Sacramental. Life itself is supposed to be Sacramental. Numbering the Sacraments compartmentalizes God like those Western theologians everybody complains about.

Which is all fine and good.

IF we were talking Sacraments.


we are talking Councils, and thus you implied that 'we count 7 to make it 'match' the Sacraments and numbering them.

We do, in compliance with what the West used to do. However, they no longer do that since they have like 28 Ecumenical Councils now or something.

Offline Maria

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2014, 03:56:48 PM »
If you meant "Eastern Orthodox," the traditional answer is 7.

Which is hardly "traditional" at all, contrary to the belief of many Orthodox people. The concept of seven big things--ie, Sacraments, Ecumenical Councils, etc.--is a Western idea that somehow found its way into Orthodoxy, probably in Russia during the "Western Captivity" era.


yea...they had the other 4 councils...JUST to make sure that it matched the number of sacraments in the Western Church.




The entire concept of numbering Sacraments is opposed to Orthodox theology and metaphysics. It creates a distinction between the Sacramental and the non-Sacramental, the religious and the secular. Ideally everything, in the spirit of the Incarnation, is supposed to be Sacramental. Life itself is supposed to be Sacramental. Numbering the Sacraments compartmentalizes God like those Western theologians everybody complains about.

Exactly. Funerals, tonsuring a person to Reader, ordination to Subdiaconate, and monastic tonsuring are all considered sacraments in the Holy Orthodox Church. I have even heard priests mention that all of our Divine Services, including Vespers and Paraclesis to the Theotokos, can be regarded as Holy Mysteries in which God is present.

On the contrary, For the Life of This World, Fr. Alexander Schmemann mentions that the West tends to think that the sacraments and sacramentals are somehow magical. For example, he mentions the prayer of absolution is not magical. No matter how many times the priest prays that prayer of absolution, if a person is not repentant, it will not absolve his/her sins.

How many councils does the Roman Catholic Church consider to be Ecumenical?
With criticism of the Council of Trent, how many in the RCC still believe that one is Ecumenical?

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Regnare

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2014, 06:36:06 PM »
Does "Ecumenical Council" always have to mean "dogmatically authoritative pan-Orthodox synod"? I remember someone on here saying that it means the same as the "Ecumenical" in Patriarch Bartholomew's title, i.e., one called by the Roman emperor. Why can't we just go with that? As it pertains to the EO-OO dialogues, I'm sure they would be willing to accept the post-schism councils in that sense (I think they are very willing, in fact, to consider Chalcedon as an imperial council), and they've already accepted their dogmatic orthodoxy as long as Chalcedon isn't mistakenly taken in isolation. In that case, I guess there would be nine, counting the Fourth and Fifth Councils of Constantinople held before the fall of New Rome.
But even with nine, there's no reason we can't keep counting the first seven as especially important in our liturgy, and the OOs the first three.
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Offline Maria

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2014, 06:39:57 PM »
Does "Ecumenical Council" always have to mean "dogmatically authoritative pan-Orthodox synod"? I remember someone on here saying that it means the same as the "Ecumenical" in Patriarch Bartholomew's title, i.e., one called by the Roman emperor. Why can't we just go with that? As it pertains to the EO-OO dialogues, I'm sure they would be willing to accept the post-schism councils in that sense (I think they are very willing, in fact, to consider Chalcedon as an imperial council), and they've already accepted their dogmatic orthodoxy as long as Chalcedon isn't mistakenly taken in isolation. In that case, I guess there would be nine, counting the Fourth and Fifth Councils of Constantinople held before the fall of New Rome.

But even with nine, there's no reason we can't keep counting the first seven as especially important in our liturgy, and the OOs the first three.

Quote
Historical reality is perfectly clear: the holy Councils of the Holy Fathers, summoned by God, always, always had before them one, or at the most two or three questions set before them by the extreme gravity of great heresies and schisms that distorted the Orthodox Faith, tore asunder the Church and seriously placed in danger the salvation of human souls, the salvation of the Orthodox people of God, and of the entire creation of God. Therefore, the ecumenical councils always had a Christological, soteriological, ecclesiological character, which means that their sole and central topic - their Good News - was always the God-Man Jesus Christ and our salvation in Him, our deification in Him. Yes, He - the Son of God, only-begotten and consubstantial, incarnate; He - the eternal Head of the Body of the Church for the salvation and deification of man; He - wholly in the Church by the grace of the Holy Spirit, by true faith in Him, by the Orthodox Faith.

Edited to add source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/stjustin_council.aspx

The 8th and 9th apparently had a Christological, soteriological, ecclesiological character as they denounced the Filioque heresy (Christological) and the heretical idea that the Light of the Transfiguration was created (Trinitarian and also Christological). St. Gregory Palamas taught that the Holy Light of the Transfiguration is Uncreated.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 06:41:17 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2014, 06:59:29 PM »
The Church of the East are right, because 2 councils point to 2 Testaments of Scripture. The Oriental Orthodox are right, because the 3 councils point to the 3 persons of the Trinity. The Eastern Orthodox are right, because they have 7 councils and 7 is the number of perfection (except for those who accept 8 or 9 councils, in which case it is a mystery of God most profound. Seek not answers here.) The Roman Catholics are right, because 21 councils match the (oldest) age required in the United States to legally purchase and consume alcohol, which is an essential element in the sacraments and worship of God.
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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2014, 07:30:20 PM »
This discussion reminds me of this painting:


Note the noblewoman and Old Believer, Feodosia Morozovna (1632-1675), defiantly holding up TWO fingers to demonstrate how one should cross oneself.

Offline Theophania

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2014, 07:33:16 PM »
This discussion reminds me of this painting:


Note the noblewoman and Old Believer, Feodosia Morozovna (1632-1675), defiantly holding up TWO fingers to demonstrate how one should cross oneself.

I've always loved that painting. So much emotion in it.
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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2014, 07:51:56 PM »
LOL, three is winning! 

Hmmm...how odd...three was winning when I went to sleep (because it's correct, dagnabit), but now a bunch of Johnny-come-latelys appear to have shown up and skewed the results in their favor. What an unprecedented development in the history of the church! :o

I voted for three. What does this poll matter, anyway?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2014, 07:52:19 PM by lovesupreme »

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2014, 07:55:32 PM »
LOL, three is winning! 

Hmmm...how odd...three was winning when I went to sleep (because it's correct, dagnabit), but now a bunch of Johnny-come-latelys appear to have shown up and skewed the results in their favor. What an unprecedented development in the history of the church! :o

I voted for three. What does this poll matter, anyway?

We like polls.

Well maybe not everyone - we need a "do you like polls?" poll.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2014, 09:33:14 PM »
LOL, three is winning! 

Hmmm...how odd...three was winning when I went to sleep (because it's correct, dagnabit), but now a bunch of Johnny-come-latelys appear to have shown up and skewed the results in their favor. What an unprecedented development in the history of the church! :o

LOL!
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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2014, 09:35:07 PM »
This discussion reminds me of this painting:


Note the noblewoman and Old Believer, Feodosia Morozovna (1632-1675), defiantly holding up TWO fingers to demonstrate how one should cross oneself.

Some would say that this painting is a depiction of what happens every day on OCNet.  Let the reader understand. 
OC.NET is full of temptations, but in temptations we are enforced, remember about the thread "Temptation in the Desert: Rachel Weisz and the Undoing of Mor Ephrem". OC.NET helps in becoming unpassionate.

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Oh you Greeks, you are all dumb!

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Offline Theophania

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2014, 09:37:12 PM »
This discussion reminds me of this painting:


Note the noblewoman and Old Believer, Feodosia Morozovna (1632-1675), defiantly holding up TWO fingers to demonstrate how one should cross oneself.

Some would say that this painting is a depiction of what happens every day on OCNet.  Let the reader understand. 

I want to know who you think is our Feodosia but then I don't.
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2014, 09:38:22 PM »
This discussion reminds me of this painting:


Note the noblewoman and Old Believer, Feodosia Morozovna (1632-1675), defiantly holding up TWO fingers to demonstrate how one should cross oneself.

Some would say that this painting is a depiction of what happens every day on OCNet.  Let the reader understand. 

I want to know who you think is our Feodosia but then I don't.

Perhaps we should start a poll on the subject. ;D :angel:

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2014, 10:45:07 PM »
I always wondered if a council should be a sacrament, happening in the middle of a liturgy.  Normally, if people did not wine about the length of liturgies, as soon as any consecrations, baptism, weddings, or unctions end, the rest of the liturgy continues, beginning with the Kiss of Peace.  Perhaps a council requires it to end with a Kiss of Peace and liturgy every session.   :P (which means all the bishops would be fasting)

Imagine angry moods in a council, and you're forced to end the council by liturgically reconciling with each other.  That be interesting to witness.  ;)
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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2014, 10:47:22 PM »
Personally, I doubt I'd recognize even half if I met them in the street.
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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2014, 11:19:54 PM »
I don't know if I would recognize an EC if I saw one walking down the street or in a lineup.

Personally, I doubt I'd recognize even half if I met them in the street.

Where are you people thinking that you might bump into Ecumenical Councils in the street? I MUST visit there...
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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2014, 11:25:49 PM »
LOL, three is winning! 

I knew that wouldn't last longer than the Liturgy...

I tried to help, but it was to no avail!

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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2014, 11:36:03 PM »
The Church of the East are right, because 2 councils point to 2 Testaments of Scripture. The Oriental Orthodox are right, because the 3 councils point to the 3 persons of the Trinity. The Eastern Orthodox are right, because they have 7 councils and 7 is the number of perfection (except for those who accept 8 or 9 councils, in which case it is a mystery of God most profound. Seek not answers here.) The Roman Catholics are right, because 21 councils match the (oldest) age required in the United States to legally purchase and consume alcohol, which is an essential element in the sacraments and worship of God.

Justin, you're so silly...The Roman Catholics are right because 21 councils is a product of 3 councils and 7 councils, thus making both OO and EO right  8)
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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2014, 11:50:27 PM »
The Church of the East are right, because 2 councils point to 2 Testaments of Scripture. The Oriental Orthodox are right, because the 3 councils point to the 3 persons of the Trinity. The Eastern Orthodox are right, because they have 7 councils and 7 is the number of perfection (except for those who accept 8 or 9 councils, in which case it is a mystery of God most profound. Seek not answers here.) The Roman Catholics are right, because 21 councils match the (oldest) age required in the United States to legally purchase and consume alcohol, which is an essential element in the sacraments and worship of God.

Justin, you're so silly...The Roman Catholics are right because 21 councils is a product of 3 councils and 7 councils, thus making both OO and EO right  8)

It just proves that Roman Catholics had to hold more because they multiplied 3 x 7 and got their mandatory number of 21. :laugh:
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Re: How many Ecumenical Councils do the Orthodox recognize?
« Reply #75 on: September 09, 2014, 12:48:00 PM »
I don't know if I would recognize an EC if I saw one walking down the street or in a lineup.

Personally, I doubt I'd recognize even half if I met them in the street.

Where are you people thinking that you might bump into Ecumenical Councils in the street? I MUST visit there...

I'd say Chambessy, but that'll be the day....
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